(05-25-2020 12:47 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:42 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:28 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  If the 2 conferences came to th table to work things out there would be some politicking going on, no doubt about it. Human nature.

La Tech to the west if ULM goes east.
NMSU brought into west and UAB stays west with USM.

You are assuming things off of opinions from message board fans. UAB is a basketball school who is trying to become a winning football program. Why would they want the added expense of playing in the west and the only school east of the Mississippi? Why do you think eastern schools would agree to have ULM in their conference just to please a couple LA. schools that's not even in their conference?

The answer to those questions is...

They wouldnt. UAB has strong basketball ties to eastern schools and no way would their president agree to a western conference just to be in the same conference as USM. In my opinion. ULM will not, not a change in hell, will they be in a new conference made up of eastern schools...with strong histories in basketball.

If there's a western and eastern conference made up...ULM will be in the same conference as ULL, and Tech

Over Tech’s dead body. Won’t happen. We dont give a crap about what happens in the east. We will do what is necessary just as long as we don’t have to do something that would cripple our program like be associated with ULM. It’s not personal. It’s business. I actually look forward to a conference that doesn’t have you in it.

That’s funny. It’s business also that Tech has turned down the Sunbelt 3 times already. WKU is much better program that ULL and CUSA is not merging with the Sunbelt.

(05-25-2020 02:38 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:29 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  LOL at La Tech acting as if they are too good to share a conference with ULM.

We are all in the same boat my friend. Get over it. Tech is closer to ULM than you are the P5 programs...so is Marshall (and that kills me to admit it.)

+1. In any new reconfiguration, is Louisiana Tech going to subsidize our travel budgets because they want nothing to do with ULM? What a bunch of babies. I really hope the folks who run their university and athletics programs are more level-headed than their fans. There's no sense in tightening the geography, if you're not really tightening the geography. Louisiana Tech needs to grow a pair and quit running from its little brother.

Talk your smack. Facts are facts. We don’t want anything to do with the Juco. It’s not always about geography is it? You ain’t our little brother either. You are a community college playing above your weight class.

(05-25-2020 02:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:38 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:30 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  Let me be blunt, because obviously you aren’t understanding me. Tech would go independent before they ever joined a conference with ULM. ULL and Arkansas State would have no problem finding a way to trade Tech for ULM. I understand that they wouldn’t technically be new conferences, but do we consider the Big12 to be a new conference or the amalgamation of two conferences? It’s politics at its finest. You get a consensus from enough programs and find a way to make it work within the rules. Technically the Sunbelt or CUSA could move to form a new conference as long as they have 5 teams that have played together over a certain period of time. They would have to leave few teams to allow the old conference from continuing as an entity. See Southwest Conference.

I don't think you're understanding me. C-USA and Sun Belt aren't combining. They're just trading. And if you take your 8 schools and make a literal brand new conference from it, you will not have an autobid to the NCAA men's basketball tourney for 8 years, and you will not get money from the G5 CFP distribution as your conference would not be a signatory. So, to me, that option is dead on arrival.

What you're suggesting is that whatever conference ULM would end up in has enough votes to just kick them out. The Sun Belt could literally do that right now, they have always had the power to do that. But, doing that has it's own political ramifications and there's a reason conferences don't take that route very often. If ULM got kicked out of this consortium so La Tech could join, I would not be surprised to see lawsuits and the Louisiana state legislature get involved. If La Tech and ULL are fine with that though, then yeah, it's no big deal.

What would the lawsuit be for? The Big East kicked out Temple for poor performance and minimal investment. Wasnt much they could do because it was true. Its kind of a crappy thing to do---but I dont know that suing the conference would make any difference as long as the bylaws were followed. For all we know---the administration might secretly be pleased as it would give them the cover to drop down a level and slash the athletics budget.

If ULM is gone, then all your really doing is adding ArkySt, ULL, Troy, and S Alabama to the already existing CUSA West. The CUSA West guys dont lose anyone they were playing annually. If there is someone they really want to play out east--you can still do a OOC game. The same basic thing for CUSA East---they arent going to lose anyone they were playing regularly. If there is a western team they feel strongly about---they can schedule them as an OOC game. You probably wouldnt see them much more in football even if they were still in the conference.

I know Sideshow hates the idea---but if you really analyze the football schedule---it really wouldnt affect N Texas much at all. Even their division would almost look almost the same. It just cuts costs. That said---I think CUSA can gain a lot of the same efficiencies of a complete reorganization by simply doing this---

1) Cut cross divisional games in football to one. Nothing in the rules requires an 8 game schedule. You just have to play a full round robin in your division. You could literally just play 6 conference games in each division if you wanted to---and still qualify to have your CCG. The other 6 games could be all OOC games---nearby opponents or make money with buy games if you want. Lots of flexibility there.

2) Play divisions in basketball. Round robin home-and-home in the division (12 games) and then 4 crossover games using a pod system that pits the top of the west vs the top of the east (16 game total).

3) Use divisions for non-revenue sports. Play exclusively in the division for non-revenue sports (no crossover unless required by NCAA rules). West and East would only meet for championships in non-revenue sports.

Something like that would reduce your travel costs to very close to the same as you get with a complete reorganization.

Yup. I hate it. I'd rather North Texas be an independent than play in that irrelevant regional crap.

Funny how AAC fans would love to see C-USA and the Sun Belt realign into regional conferences that could never challenge them for the access bowl.

I wonder what AAC fans would think of the better programs forming a conference like this...

West
Southern Miss
LA Tech
North Texas
Rice
UAB
Troy

East
Marshall
App State
FAU
FIU
WKU
MTSU

I made two points---

1) A reorganization would make no significant difference in the schedule of teams N Texas reguarly faces (you division would be almost unchanged).

2) That CUSA doesnt really need to reorganize to get the vast majority of the travel savings from reorganization. If they use the 3 bullet points I suggested, N Texas could potentially end up with 2 extra OOC games where they could schedule anyone they want from Marshall to Ohio St.

This all comes down to a matter of priorities....

North Texas values playing the best home and away schedule we can and likes playing teams from around the country. UNT stopped scheduling money games, and won't be traveling for anymore paychecks after we finish the three our old AD scheduled before he left ('20@Texas A&M, '21@Missouri, '25@Wisconson). Our future OOC schedule currently has home and home series with Missouri, Wyoming, and Memphis. We want to play programs from other parts of the country. While I'm not against regional games, we don't want to be in an isolated regional conference, with limited exposure for the last 10 weeks of the football season.

Yes, regional games are part of the equation, but we are already scheduling the regional opponents we want to play (Texas Tech, Baylor, SMU, Houston, and Tulane). So, why would we want to conference with other regional programs we haven't cared to schedule in our OOC? Plus, we don't need to be in a conference that keeps us isolated in a region once conference play has begun.

(05-25-2020 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:38 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:30 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:23 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  I... what? Money is not a mechanism. By put up or shut up, what do you mean by that? Does every member have to pay an entrance fee so high that ULM couldn't pay it? Would they have to commit a certain amount of money to facilities? What if they say they do and then don't? Does UL-L want to potentially get the Louisiana legislature involved by taking part in kicking out another University of Louisiana system member?

And they're not new conferences! Just new names and new members. For all legal purposes these are the exact same conferences as before. What if ULM refuses to leave what is currently the Sun Belt?

Let me be blunt, because obviously you aren’t understanding me. Tech would go independent before they ever joined a conference with ULM. ULL and Arkansas State would have no problem finding a way to trade Tech for ULM. I understand that they wouldn’t technically be new conferences, but do we consider the Big12 to be a new conference or the amalgamation of two conferences? It’s politics at its finest. You get a consensus from enough programs and find a way to make it work within the rules. Technically the Sunbelt or CUSA could move to form a new conference as long as they have 5 teams that have played together over a certain period of time. They would have to leave few teams to allow the old conference from continuing as an entity. See Southwest Conference.

I don't think you're understanding me. C-USA and Sun Belt aren't combining. They're just trading. And if you take your 8 schools and make a literal brand new conference from it, you will not have an autobid to the NCAA men's basketball tourney for 8 years, and you will not get money from the G5 CFP distribution as your conference would not be a signatory. So, to me, that option is dead on arrival.

What you're suggesting is that whatever conference ULM would end up in has enough votes to just kick them out. The Sun Belt could literally do that right now, they have always had the power to do that. But, doing that has it's own political ramifications and there's a reason conferences don't take that route very often. If ULM got kicked out of this consortium so La Tech could join, I would not be surprised to see lawsuits and the Louisiana state legislature get involved. If La Tech and ULL are fine with that though, then yeah, it's no big deal.

What would the lawsuit be for? The Big East kicked out Temple for poor performance and minimal investment. Wasnt much they could do because it was true. Its kind of a crappy thing to do---but I dont know that suing the conference would make any difference as long as the bylaws were followed. For all we know---the administration might secretly be pleased as it would give them the cover to drop down a level and slash the athletics budget.

If ULM is gone, then all your really doing is adding ArkySt, ULL, Troy, and S Alabama to the already existing CUSA West. The CUSA West guys dont lose anyone they were playing annually. If there is someone they really want to play out east--you can still do a OOC game. The same basic thing for CUSA East---they arent going to lose anyone they were playing regularly. If there is a western team they feel strongly about---they can schedule them as an OOC game. You probably wouldnt see them much more in football even if they were still in the conference.

I know Sideshow hates the idea---but if you really analyze the football schedule---it really wouldnt affect N Texas much at all. Even their division would almost look almost the same. It just cuts costs. That said---I think CUSA can gain a lot of the same efficiencies of a complete reorganization by simply doing this---

1) Cut cross divisional games in football to one. Nothing in the rules requires an 8 game schedule. You just have to play a full round robin in your division. You could literally just play 6 conference games in each division if you wanted to---and still qualify to have your CCG. The other 6 games could be all OOC games---nearby opponents or make money with buy games if you want. Lots of flexibility there.

2) Play divisions in basketball. Round robin home-and-home in the division (12 games) and then 4 crossover games using a pod system that pits the top of the west vs the top of the east (16 game total).

3) Use divisions for non-revenue sports. Play exclusively in the division for non-revenue sports (no crossover unless required by NCAA rules). West and East would only meet for championships in non-revenue sports.

Something like that would reduce your travel costs to very close to the same as you get with a complete reorganization.

Yup. I hate it. I'd rather North Texas be an independent than play in that irrelevant regional crap.

Funny how AAC fans would love to see C-USA and the Sun Belt realign into regional conferences that could never challenge them for the access bowl.

I wonder what AAC fans would think of the better programs forming a conference like this...

West
Southern Miss
LA Tech
North Texas
Rice
UAB
Troy

East
Marshall
App State
FAU
FIU
WKU
MTSU

Of course CUSA is not merging with the Sunbelt. The G5 merging is just as likely

Its funny how message board run wild with ideals that are not likely at all

(05-25-2020 02:46 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 02:38 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:29 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  LOL at La Tech acting as if they are too good to share a conference with ULM.

We are all in the same boat my friend. Get over it. Tech is closer to ULM than you are the P5 programs...so is Marshall (and that kills me to admit it.)

+1. In any new reconfiguration, is Louisiana Tech going to subsidize our travel budgets because they want nothing to do with ULM? What a bunch of babies. I really hope the folks who run their university and athletics programs are more level-headed than their fans. There's no sense in tightening the geography, if you're not really tightening the geography. Louisiana Tech needs to grow a pair and quit running from its little brother.

Talk your smack. Facts are facts. We don’t want anything to do with the Juco. It’s not always about geography is it? You ain’t our little brother either. You are a community college playing above your weight class.

Marshall football stays afloat because of non-qualifiers. Not a full fledge juco, a semi-juco an intermediate

(05-25-2020 02:44 PM)Dawgxas Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:47 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:42 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:28 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  If the 2 conferences came to th table to work things out there would be some politicking going on, no doubt about it. Human nature.

La Tech to the west if ULM goes east.
NMSU brought into west and UAB stays west with USM.

You are assuming things off of opinions from message board fans. UAB is a basketball school who is trying to become a winning football program. Why would they want the added expense of playing in the west and the only school east of the Mississippi? Why do you think eastern schools would agree to have ULM in their conference just to please a couple LA. schools that's not even in their conference?

The answer to those questions is...

They wouldnt. UAB has strong basketball ties to eastern schools and no way would their president agree to a western conference just to be in the same conference as USM. In my opinion. ULM will not, not a change in hell, will they be in a new conference made up of eastern schools...with strong histories in basketball.

If there's a western and eastern conference made up...ULM will be in the same conference as ULL, and Tech

Over Tech’s dead body. Won’t happen. We dont give a crap about what happens in the east. We will do what is necessary just as long as we don’t have to do something that would cripple our program like be associated with ULM. It’s not personal. It’s business. I actually look forward to a conference that doesn’t have you in it.

That’s funny. It’s business also that Tech has turned down the Sunbelt 3 times already. WKU is much better program that ULL and CUSA is not merging with the Sunbelt.

I dont think the conferences are merging and I understand why Tech wouldnt want to be in the same conference as ULM. Western wouldnt want to be in the same conference if EKU moved up. Some fans would (most wouldn't) but I dont believe WKU would agree to it...if there was a choice other than INDY. If that was the only 2 choices then I could see Western being pulled into the conference.

But at this point I only see cross conference scheduling in Olympic sports and no merge. Cross division games in FB will most likely be made on saving dollars instead of 2 year rotations. It shouldn't break the bank of a eastern team traveling to UTEP for FB once every 6 years

A easy fix would be for Olympic sports to go to divisions and play a round robin without cross division games. Then the 2 winners met to crown the champion..home team is the one with the best record. Then its almost like having two regional conferences under one flag

(05-25-2020 02:24 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  Strength of schedule is really a moot point in the G5. It’s really about how early you get noticed, who you beat out of conference and do you end the season as a conference champ? How many G5 teams have finished undefeated and not made the Access bowl? How many times did a one loss G5 teams get picked over an undefeated G5 teams? As far as the playoff committee is concerned we all play about the same with the exception of maybe the AAC. It’s a crap shoot that very rarely takes into account SOS. Go undefeated, beat a P5 program along the way and you are more times than not in.

The idea is that a stronger collection of programs (regardless of location) could generate more P5 wins in their OOC schedules, and in return produce a higher number of ranked teams that could fight it out in conference play. And, their conference champ would be a stronger contender for the access bowl.

(05-25-2020 02:47 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 02:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:38 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  I don't think you're understanding me. C-USA and Sun Belt aren't combining. They're just trading. And if you take your 8 schools and make a literal brand new conference from it, you will not have an autobid to the NCAA men's basketball tourney for 8 years, and you will not get money from the G5 CFP distribution as your conference would not be a signatory. So, to me, that option is dead on arrival.

What you're suggesting is that whatever conference ULM would end up in has enough votes to just kick them out. The Sun Belt could literally do that right now, they have always had the power to do that. But, doing that has it's own political ramifications and there's a reason conferences don't take that route very often. If ULM got kicked out of this consortium so La Tech could join, I would not be surprised to see lawsuits and the Louisiana state legislature get involved. If La Tech and ULL are fine with that though, then yeah, it's no big deal.

What would the lawsuit be for? The Big East kicked out Temple for poor performance and minimal investment. Wasnt much they could do because it was true. Its kind of a crappy thing to do---but I dont know that suing the conference would make any difference as long as the bylaws were followed. For all we know---the administration might secretly be pleased as it would give them the cover to drop down a level and slash the athletics budget.

If ULM is gone, then all your really doing is adding ArkySt, ULL, Troy, and S Alabama to the already existing CUSA West. The CUSA West guys dont lose anyone they were playing annually. If there is someone they really want to play out east--you can still do a OOC game. The same basic thing for CUSA East---they arent going to lose anyone they were playing regularly. If there is a western team they feel strongly about---they can schedule them as an OOC game. You probably wouldnt see them much more in football even if they were still in the conference.

I know Sideshow hates the idea---but if you really analyze the football schedule---it really wouldnt affect N Texas much at all. Even their division would almost look almost the same. It just cuts costs. That said---I think CUSA can gain a lot of the same efficiencies of a complete reorganization by simply doing this---

1) Cut cross divisional games in football to one. Nothing in the rules requires an 8 game schedule. You just have to play a full round robin in your division. You could literally just play 6 conference games in each division if you wanted to---and still qualify to have your CCG. The other 6 games could be all OOC games---nearby opponents or make money with buy games if you want. Lots of flexibility there.

2) Play divisions in basketball. Round robin home-and-home in the division (12 games) and then 4 crossover games using a pod system that pits the top of the west vs the top of the east (16 game total).

3) Use divisions for non-revenue sports. Play exclusively in the division for non-revenue sports (no crossover unless required by NCAA rules). West and East would only meet for championships in non-revenue sports.

Something like that would reduce your travel costs to very close to the same as you get with a complete reorganization.

Yup. I hate it. I'd rather North Texas be an independent than play in that irrelevant regional crap.

Funny how AAC fans would love to see C-USA and the Sun Belt realign into regional conferences that could never challenge them for the access bowl.

I wonder what AAC fans would think of the better programs forming a conference like this...

West
Southern Miss
LA Tech
North Texas
Rice
UAB
Troy

East
Marshall
App State
FAU
FIU
WKU
MTSU

I made two points---

1) A reorganization would make no significant difference in the schedule of teams N Texas reguarly faces (you division would be almost unchanged).

2) That CUSA doesnt really need to reorganize to get the vast majority of the travel savings from reorganization. If they use the 3 bullet points I suggested, N Texas could potentially end up with 2 extra OOC games where they could schedule anyone they want from Marshall to Ohio St.

This all comes down to a matter of priorities....

North Texas values playing the best home and away schedule we can and likes playing teams from around the country. UNT stopped scheduling money games, and won't be traveling for anymore paychecks after we finish the three our old AD scheduled before he left ('20@Texas A&M, '21@Missouri, '25@Wisconson). Our future OOC schedule currently has home and home series with Missouri, Wyoming, and Memphis. We want to play programs from other parts of the country. While I'm not against regional games, we don't want to be in an isolated regional conference, with limited exposure for the last 10 weeks of the football season.

Yes, regional games are part of the equation, but we are already scheduling the regional opponents we want to play (Texas Tech, Baylor, SMU, Houston, and Tulane). So, why would we want to conference with other regional programs we haven't cared to schedule in our OOC? Plus, we don't need to be in a conference that keeps us isolated in a region once conference play has begun.

Conferences tend to change to eventually reflect the economic realities of the current landscape. In the early days, conferences were regional, membership often determined by easy rail travel and short cheap trips. Then TV money came into the game and changed the landscape. TV rewarded large markets and bigger footprints that took in more and more states. That resulted in bigger conferences that spanned over half a continent. If those TV dollars are drying up for big G5 conferences, then the big footprint conference model no longer makes economic sense for the G5's---and G5 conferences will eventually conform to those new economic realities. I mean---if the AAC payout were to fall to $400K a school---I'd say AAC presidents would be talking about reorganizing. But I dont see them doing that as long as the current model still seems to be working for them.

(05-25-2020 05:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 02:47 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 02:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  What would the lawsuit be for? The Big East kicked out Temple for poor performance and minimal investment. Wasnt much they could do because it was true. Its kind of a crappy thing to do---but I dont know that suing the conference would make any difference as long as the bylaws were followed. For all we know---the administration might secretly be pleased as it would give them the cover to drop down a level and slash the athletics budget.

If ULM is gone, then all your really doing is adding ArkySt, ULL, Troy, and S Alabama to the already existing CUSA West. The CUSA West guys dont lose anyone they were playing annually. If there is someone they really want to play out east--you can still do a OOC game. The same basic thing for CUSA East---they arent going to lose anyone they were playing regularly. If there is a western team they feel strongly about---they can schedule them as an OOC game. You probably wouldnt see them much more in football even if they were still in the conference.

I know Sideshow hates the idea---but if you really analyze the football schedule---it really wouldnt affect N Texas much at all. Even their division would almost look almost the same. It just cuts costs. That said---I think CUSA can gain a lot of the same efficiencies of a complete reorganization by simply doing this---

1) Cut cross divisional games in football to one. Nothing in the rules requires an 8 game schedule. You just have to play a full round robin in your division. You could literally just play 6 conference games in each division if you wanted to---and still qualify to have your CCG. The other 6 games could be all OOC games---nearby opponents or make money with buy games if you want. Lots of flexibility there.

2) Play divisions in basketball. Round robin home-and-home in the division (12 games) and then 4 crossover games using a pod system that pits the top of the west vs the top of the east (16 game total).

3) Use divisions for non-revenue sports. Play exclusively in the division for non-revenue sports (no crossover unless required by NCAA rules). West and East would only meet for championships in non-revenue sports.

Something like that would reduce your travel costs to very close to the same as you get with a complete reorganization.

Yup. I hate it. I'd rather North Texas be an independent than play in that irrelevant regional crap.

Funny how AAC fans would love to see C-USA and the Sun Belt realign into regional conferences that could never challenge them for the access bowl.

I wonder what AAC fans would think of the better programs forming a conference like this...

West
Southern Miss
LA Tech
North Texas
Rice
UAB
Troy

East
Marshall
App State
FAU
FIU
WKU
MTSU

I made two points---

1) A reorganization would make no significant difference in the schedule of teams N Texas reguarly faces (you division would be almost unchanged).

2) That CUSA doesnt really need to reorganize to get the vast majority of the travel savings from reorganization. If they use the 3 bullet points I suggested, N Texas could potentially end up with 2 extra OOC games where they could schedule anyone they want from Marshall to Ohio St.

This all comes down to a matter of priorities....

North Texas values playing the best home and away schedule we can and likes playing teams from around the country. UNT stopped scheduling money games, and won't be traveling for anymore paychecks after we finish the three our old AD scheduled before he left ('20@Texas A&M, '21@Missouri, '25@Wisconson). Our future OOC schedule currently has home and home series with Missouri, Wyoming, and Memphis. We want to play programs from other parts of the country. While I'm not against regional games, we don't want to be in an isolated regional conference, with limited exposure for the last 10 weeks of the football season.

Yes, regional games are part of the equation, but we are already scheduling the regional opponents we want to play (Texas Tech, Baylor, SMU, Houston, and Tulane). So, why would we want to conference with other regional programs we haven't cared to schedule in our OOC? Plus, we don't need to be in a conference that keeps us isolated in a region once conference play has begun.

Conferences tend to change to eventually reflect the economic realities of the current landscape. In the early days, conferences were regional, membership often determined by easy rail travel and short cheap trips. Then TV money came into the game and changed the landscape. TV rewarded large markets and bigger footprints that took in more and more states. That resulted in bigger conferences that spanned over half a continent. If those TV dollars are drying up for big G5 conferences, then the big footprint conference model no longer makes economic sense for the G5's---and G5 conferences will eventually conform to those new economic realities. I mean---if the AAC payout were to fall to $400K a school---I'd say AAC presidents would be talking about reorganizing. But I dont see them doing that as long as the current model still seems to be working for them.

The current economic realities for North Texas are better than they have ever been. Our athletic budget has doubled in the last 8 years. Even with the pandemic, UNT is still building and growing. If we can afford to lose money and play in a large spread out G5 conference, why should we condemn our athletics to a small irrelevant regional conference with a bunch of programs that are willing to accept less? You have to see our side of this situation.

(05-25-2020 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:38 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:30 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:23 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  I... what? Money is not a mechanism. By put up or shut up, what do you mean by that? Does every member have to pay an entrance fee so high that ULM couldn't pay it? Would they have to commit a certain amount of money to facilities? What if they say they do and then don't? Does UL-L want to potentially get the Louisiana legislature involved by taking part in kicking out another University of Louisiana system member?

And they're not new conferences! Just new names and new members. For all legal purposes these are the exact same conferences as before. What if ULM refuses to leave what is currently the Sun Belt?

Let me be blunt, because obviously you aren’t understanding me. Tech would go independent before they ever joined a conference with ULM. ULL and Arkansas State would have no problem finding a way to trade Tech for ULM. I understand that they wouldn’t technically be new conferences, but do we consider the Big12 to be a new conference or the amalgamation of two conferences? It’s politics at its finest. You get a consensus from enough programs and find a way to make it work within the rules. Technically the Sunbelt or CUSA could move to form a new conference as long as they have 5 teams that have played together over a certain period of time. They would have to leave few teams to allow the old conference from continuing as an entity. See Southwest Conference.

I don't think you're understanding me. C-USA and Sun Belt aren't combining. They're just trading. And if you take your 8 schools and make a literal brand new conference from it, you will not have an autobid to the NCAA men's basketball tourney for 8 years, and you will not get money from the G5 CFP distribution as your conference would not be a signatory. So, to me, that option is dead on arrival.

What you're suggesting is that whatever conference ULM would end up in has enough votes to just kick them out. The Sun Belt could literally do that right now, they have always had the power to do that. But, doing that has it's own political ramifications and there's a reason conferences don't take that route very often. If ULM got kicked out of this consortium so La Tech could join, I would not be surprised to see lawsuits and the Louisiana state legislature get involved. If La Tech and ULL are fine with that though, then yeah, it's no big deal.

What would the lawsuit be for? The Big East kicked out Temple for poor performance and minimal investment. Wasnt much they could do because it was true. Its kind of a crappy thing to do---but I dont know that suing the conference would make any difference as long as the bylaws were followed. For all we know---the administration might secretly be pleased as it would give them the cover to drop down a level and slash the athletics budget.

If ULM is gone, then all your really doing is adding ArkySt, ULL, Troy, and S Alabama to the already existing CUSA West. The CUSA West guys dont lose anyone they were playing annually. If there is someone they really want to play out east--you can still do a OOC game. The same basic thing for CUSA East---they arent going to lose anyone they were playing regularly. If there is a western team they feel strongly about---they can schedule them as an OOC game. You probably wouldnt see them much more in football even if they were still in the conference.

I know Sideshow hates the idea---but if you really analyze the football schedule---it really wouldnt affect N Texas much at all. Even their division would almost look almost the same. It just cuts costs. That said---I think CUSA can gain a lot of the same efficiencies of a complete reorganization by simply doing this---

1) Cut cross divisional games in football to one. Nothing in the rules requires an 8 game schedule. You just have to play a full round robin in your division. You could literally just play 6 conference games in each division if you wanted to---and still qualify to have your CCG. The other 6 games could be all OOC games---nearby opponents or make money with buy games if you want. Lots of flexibility there.

2) Play divisions in basketball. Round robin home-and-home in the division (12 games) and then 4 crossover games using a pod system that pits the top of the west vs the top of the east (16 game total).

3) Use divisions for non-revenue sports. Play exclusively in the division for non-revenue sports (no crossover unless required by NCAA rules). West and East would only meet for championships in non-revenue sports.

Something like that would reduce your travel costs to very close to the same as you get with a complete reorganization.

Yup. I hate it. I'd rather North Texas be an independent than play in that irrelevant regional crap.

Funny how AAC fans would love to see C-USA and the Sun Belt realign into regional conferences that could never challenge them for the access bowl.

I wonder what AAC fans would think of the better programs forming a conference like this...

West
Southern Miss
LA Tech
North Texas
Rice
UAB
Troy

East
Marshall
App State
FAU
FIU
WKU
MTSU

I doubt they would be very intimidated by that conference. Most SBC fans and a fair amount of CUSA fans that i have talked to believe the SBC is ahead of CUSA at this point and you have the majority of teams being from CUSA. That doesn't add up. Not to mention, UL is a better program than half of these programs. Also, if you're not helping us with travel costs, you probably don't get App to join without Georgia Southern unless ECU drops down into the conference.

clt says to get the best markets first,

(05-25-2020 05:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 02:47 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 02:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  What would the lawsuit be for? The Big East kicked out Temple for poor performance and minimal investment. Wasnt much they could do because it was true. Its kind of a crappy thing to do---but I dont know that suing the conference would make any difference as long as the bylaws were followed. For all we know---the administration might secretly be pleased as it would give them the cover to drop down a level and slash the athletics budget.

If ULM is gone, then all your really doing is adding ArkySt, ULL, Troy, and S Alabama to the already existing CUSA West. The CUSA West guys dont lose anyone they were playing annually. If there is someone they really want to play out east--you can still do a OOC game. The same basic thing for CUSA East---they arent going to lose anyone they were playing regularly. If there is a western team they feel strongly about---they can schedule them as an OOC game. You probably wouldnt see them much more in football even if they were still in the conference.

I know Sideshow hates the idea---but if you really analyze the football schedule---it really wouldnt affect N Texas much at all. Even their division would almost look almost the same. It just cuts costs. That said---I think CUSA can gain a lot of the same efficiencies of a complete reorganization by simply doing this---

1) Cut cross divisional games in football to one. Nothing in the rules requires an 8 game schedule. You just have to play a full round robin in your division. You could literally just play 6 conference games in each division if you wanted to---and still qualify to have your CCG. The other 6 games could be all OOC games---nearby opponents or make money with buy games if you want. Lots of flexibility there.

2) Play divisions in basketball. Round robin home-and-home in the division (12 games) and then 4 crossover games using a pod system that pits the top of the west vs the top of the east (16 game total).

3) Use divisions for non-revenue sports. Play exclusively in the division for non-revenue sports (no crossover unless required by NCAA rules). West and East would only meet for championships in non-revenue sports.

Something like that would reduce your travel costs to very close to the same as you get with a complete reorganization.

Yup. I hate it. I'd rather North Texas be an independent than play in that irrelevant regional crap.

Funny how AAC fans would love to see C-USA and the Sun Belt realign into regional conferences that could never challenge them for the access bowl.

I wonder what AAC fans would think of the better programs forming a conference like this...

West
Southern Miss
LA Tech
North Texas
Rice
UAB
Troy

East
Marshall
App State
FAU
FIU
WKU
MTSU

I made two points---

1) A reorganization would make no significant difference in the schedule of teams N Texas reguarly faces (you division would be almost unchanged).

2) That CUSA doesnt really need to reorganize to get the vast majority of the travel savings from reorganization. If they use the 3 bullet points I suggested, N Texas could potentially end up with 2 extra OOC games where they could schedule anyone they want from Marshall to Ohio St.

This all comes down to a matter of priorities....

North Texas values playing the best home and away schedule we can and likes playing teams from around the country. UNT stopped scheduling money games, and won't be traveling for anymore paychecks after we finish the three our old AD scheduled before he left ('20@Texas A&M, '21@Missouri, '25@Wisconson). Our future OOC schedule currently has home and home series with Missouri, Wyoming, and Memphis. We want to play programs from other parts of the country. While I'm not against regional games, we don't want to be in an isolated regional conference, with limited exposure for the last 10 weeks of the football season.

Yes, regional games are part of the equation, but we are already scheduling the regional opponents we want to play (Texas Tech, Baylor, SMU, Houston, and Tulane). So, why would we want to conference with other regional programs we haven't cared to schedule in our OOC? Plus, we don't need to be in a conference that keeps us isolated in a region once conference play has begun.

Conferences tend to change to eventually reflect the economic realities of the current landscape. In the early days, conferences were regional, membership often determined by easy rail travel and short cheap trips. Then TV money came into the game and changed the landscape. TV rewarded large markets and bigger footprints that took in more and more states. That resulted in bigger conferences that spanned over half a continent. If those TV dollars are drying up for big G5 conferences, then the big footprint conference model no longer makes economic sense for the G5's---and G5 conferences will eventually conform to those new economic realities. I mean---if the AAC payout were to fall to $400K a school---I'd say AAC presidents would be talking about reorganizing. But I dont see them doing that as long as the current model still seems to be working for them.

Based on the rhetoric and only reading this board it has nothing to do with money. It's about perceptions that drive money. This conversation has much less traction on the Sun Belt board likely due to the fact that we're in a better financial position relative to CUSA. If money matters and all other things are arguably equal we'll see how much perception vs money matters in time. It's unlikely that Sun Belt members will entertain realignment UNLESS it makes more money. That's not good for consensus all things equal regional CUSA/Sun Belt realignment. Somebody's getting the short end of the stick. Who might you think that will be?

(05-25-2020 07:02 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 05:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 02:47 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 02:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Yup. I hate it. I'd rather North Texas be an independent than play in that irrelevant regional crap.

Funny how AAC fans would love to see C-USA and the Sun Belt realign into regional conferences that could never challenge them for the access bowl.

I wonder what AAC fans would think of the better programs forming a conference like this...

West
Southern Miss
LA Tech
North Texas
Rice
UAB
Troy

East
Marshall
App State
FAU
FIU
WKU
MTSU

I made two points---

1) A reorganization would make no significant difference in the schedule of teams N Texas reguarly faces (you division would be almost unchanged).

2) That CUSA doesnt really need to reorganize to get the vast majority of the travel savings from reorganization. If they use the 3 bullet points I suggested, N Texas could potentially end up with 2 extra OOC games where they could schedule anyone they want from Marshall to Ohio St.

This all comes down to a matter of priorities....

North Texas values playing the best home and away schedule we can and likes playing teams from around the country. UNT stopped scheduling money games, and won't be traveling for anymore paychecks after we finish the three our old AD scheduled before he left ('20@Texas A&M, '21@Missouri, '25@Wisconson). Our future OOC schedule currently has home and home series with Missouri, Wyoming, and Memphis. We want to play programs from other parts of the country. While I'm not against regional games, we don't want to be in an isolated regional conference, with limited exposure for the last 10 weeks of the football season.

Yes, regional games are part of the equation, but we are already scheduling the regional opponents we want to play (Texas Tech, Baylor, SMU, Houston, and Tulane). So, why would we want to conference with other regional programs we haven't cared to schedule in our OOC? Plus, we don't need to be in a conference that keeps us isolated in a region once conference play has begun.

Conferences tend to change to eventually reflect the economic realities of the current landscape. In the early days, conferences were regional, membership often determined by easy rail travel and short cheap trips. Then TV money came into the game and changed the landscape. TV rewarded large markets and bigger footprints that took in more and more states. That resulted in bigger conferences that spanned over half a continent. If those TV dollars are drying up for big G5 conferences, then the big footprint conference model no longer makes economic sense for the G5's---and G5 conferences will eventually conform to those new economic realities. I mean---if the AAC payout were to fall to $400K a school---I'd say AAC presidents would be talking about reorganizing. But I dont see them doing that as long as the current model still seems to be working for them.

Based on the rhetoric and only reading this board it has nothing to do with money. It's about perceptions that drive money. This conversation has much less traction on the Sun Belt board likely due to the fact that we're in a better financial position relative to CUSA. If money matters and all other things are arguably equal we'll see how much perception vs money matters in time. It's unlikely that Sun Belt members will entertain realignment UNLESS it makes more money. That's not good for consensus all things equal regional CUSA/Sun Belt realignment. Somebody's getting the short end of the stick. Who might you think that will be?

Are you really though? I know Sunbelt posters like to spew this as a fact but it's not the truth. Regional realignment is not happening at this time anyway.

(05-25-2020 07:14 PM)deb025 Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 07:02 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 05:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 02:47 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 02:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I made two points---

1) A reorganization would make no significant difference in the schedule of teams N Texas reguarly faces (you division would be almost unchanged).

2) That CUSA doesnt really need to reorganize to get the vast majority of the travel savings from reorganization. If they use the 3 bullet points I suggested, N Texas could potentially end up with 2 extra OOC games where they could schedule anyone they want from Marshall to Ohio St.

This all comes down to a matter of priorities....

North Texas values playing the best home and away schedule we can and likes playing teams from around the country. UNT stopped scheduling money games, and won't be traveling for anymore paychecks after we finish the three our old AD scheduled before he left ('20@Texas A&M, '21@Missouri, '25@Wisconson). Our future OOC schedule currently has home and home series with Missouri, Wyoming, and Memphis. We want to play programs from other parts of the country. While I'm not against regional games, we don't want to be in an isolated regional conference, with limited exposure for the last 10 weeks of the football season.

Yes, regional games are part of the equation, but we are already scheduling the regional opponents we want to play (Texas Tech, Baylor, SMU, Houston, and Tulane). So, why would we want to conference with other regional programs we haven't cared to schedule in our OOC? Plus, we don't need to be in a conference that keeps us isolated in a region once conference play has begun.

Conferences tend to change to eventually reflect the economic realities of the current landscape. In the early days, conferences were regional, membership often determined by easy rail travel and short cheap trips. Then TV money came into the game and changed the landscape. TV rewarded large markets and bigger footprints that took in more and more states. That resulted in bigger conferences that spanned over half a continent. If those TV dollars are drying up for big G5 conferences, then the big footprint conference model no longer makes economic sense for the G5's---and G5 conferences will eventually conform to those new economic realities. I mean---if the AAC payout were to fall to $400K a school---I'd say AAC presidents would be talking about reorganizing. But I dont see them doing that as long as the current model still seems to be working for them.

Based on the rhetoric and only reading this board it has nothing to do with money. It's about perceptions that drive money. This conversation has much less traction on the Sun Belt board likely due to the fact that we're in a better financial position relative to CUSA. If money matters and all other things are arguably equal we'll see how much perception vs money matters in time. It's unlikely that Sun Belt members will entertain realignment UNLESS it makes more money. That's not good for consensus all things equal regional CUSA/Sun Belt realignment. Somebody's getting the short end of the stick. Who might you think that will be?

Are you really though? I know Sunbelt posters like to spew this as a fact but it's not the truth. Regional realignment is not happening at this time anyway.

Okay I'll take your word for it but going forward a smaller conference with a smaller footprint is a net positive given all things are relatively equal. No monkey math man it is what it is.

(05-25-2020 05:36 PM)High Country Student Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:38 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:30 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  Let me be blunt, because obviously you aren’t understanding me. Tech would go independent before they ever joined a conference with ULM. ULL and Arkansas State would have no problem finding a way to trade Tech for ULM. I understand that they wouldn’t technically be new conferences, but do we consider the Big12 to be a new conference or the amalgamation of two conferences? It’s politics at its finest. You get a consensus from enough programs and find a way to make it work within the rules. Technically the Sunbelt or CUSA could move to form a new conference as long as they have 5 teams that have played together over a certain period of time. They would have to leave few teams to allow the old conference from continuing as an entity. See Southwest Conference.

I don't think you're understanding me. C-USA and Sun Belt aren't combining. They're just trading. And if you take your 8 schools and make a literal brand new conference from it, you will not have an autobid to the NCAA men's basketball tourney for 8 years, and you will not get money from the G5 CFP distribution as your conference would not be a signatory. So, to me, that option is dead on arrival.

What you're suggesting is that whatever conference ULM would end up in has enough votes to just kick them out. The Sun Belt could literally do that right now, they have always had the power to do that. But, doing that has it's own political ramifications and there's a reason conferences don't take that route very often. If ULM got kicked out of this consortium so La Tech could join, I would not be surprised to see lawsuits and the Louisiana state legislature get involved. If La Tech and ULL are fine with that though, then yeah, it's no big deal.

What would the lawsuit be for? The Big East kicked out Temple for poor performance and minimal investment. Wasnt much they could do because it was true. Its kind of a crappy thing to do---but I dont know that suing the conference would make any difference as long as the bylaws were followed. For all we know---the administration might secretly be pleased as it would give them the cover to drop down a level and slash the athletics budget.

If ULM is gone, then all your really doing is adding ArkySt, ULL, Troy, and S Alabama to the already existing CUSA West. The CUSA West guys dont lose anyone they were playing annually. If there is someone they really want to play out east--you can still do a OOC game. The same basic thing for CUSA East---they arent going to lose anyone they were playing regularly. If there is a western team they feel strongly about---they can schedule them as an OOC game. You probably wouldnt see them much more in football even if they were still in the conference.

I know Sideshow hates the idea---but if you really analyze the football schedule---it really wouldnt affect N Texas much at all. Even their division would almost look almost the same. It just cuts costs. That said---I think CUSA can gain a lot of the same efficiencies of a complete reorganization by simply doing this---

1) Cut cross divisional games in football to one. Nothing in the rules requires an 8 game schedule. You just have to play a full round robin in your division. You could literally just play 6 conference games in each division if you wanted to---and still qualify to have your CCG. The other 6 games could be all OOC games---nearby opponents or make money with buy games if you want. Lots of flexibility there.

2) Play divisions in basketball. Round robin home-and-home in the division (12 games) and then 4 crossover games using a pod system that pits the top of the west vs the top of the east (16 game total).

3) Use divisions for non-revenue sports. Play exclusively in the division for non-revenue sports (no crossover unless required by NCAA rules). West and East would only meet for championships in non-revenue sports.

Something like that would reduce your travel costs to very close to the same as you get with a complete reorganization.

Yup. I hate it. I'd rather North Texas be an independent than play in that irrelevant regional crap.

Funny how AAC fans would love to see C-USA and the Sun Belt realign into regional conferences that could never challenge them for the access bowl.

I wonder what AAC fans would think of the better programs forming a conference like this...

West
Southern Miss
LA Tech
North Texas
Rice
UAB
Troy

East
Marshall
App State
FAU
FIU
WKU
MTSU

I doubt they would be very intimidated by that conference. Most SBC fans and a fair amount of CUSA fans that i have talked to believe the SBC is ahead of CUSA at this point and you have the majority of teams being from CUSA. That doesn't add up. Not to mention, UL is a better program than half of these programs. Also, if you're not helping us with travel costs, you probably don't get App to join without Georgia Southern unless ECU drops down into the conference.

ULL has had two good season. As for the football strength of the Sun Belt... I'm not convinced yet. Sure App State and Troy have been ranked recently, but the rest of the conference isn't all that great.

In the past two seasons both C-USA and the Sun Belt have had half their teams finish the season with winning records. But in 2017, the Sun Belt only had 4 or 10 teams finish with a winning record while C-USA had 8 of 14. If you look at the other seasons since the 13 realignment, the Belt was even weaker.

When I look at the Sun Belt, it seems like a few at the top have been very good, while the majority of the Sun Belt has been mostly bad. But if you'd rather stay in the Sun Belt, that's fine with me too. I like C-USA the way it is now.

(05-25-2020 08:12 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 05:36 PM)High Country Student Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:38 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  I don't think you're understanding me. C-USA and Sun Belt aren't combining. They're just trading. And if you take your 8 schools and make a literal brand new conference from it, you will not have an autobid to the NCAA men's basketball tourney for 8 years, and you will not get money from the G5 CFP distribution as your conference would not be a signatory. So, to me, that option is dead on arrival.

What you're suggesting is that whatever conference ULM would end up in has enough votes to just kick them out. The Sun Belt could literally do that right now, they have always had the power to do that. But, doing that has it's own political ramifications and there's a reason conferences don't take that route very often. If ULM got kicked out of this consortium so La Tech could join, I would not be surprised to see lawsuits and the Louisiana state legislature get involved. If La Tech and ULL are fine with that though, then yeah, it's no big deal.

What would the lawsuit be for? The Big East kicked out Temple for poor performance and minimal investment. Wasnt much they could do because it was true. Its kind of a crappy thing to do---but I dont know that suing the conference would make any difference as long as the bylaws were followed. For all we know---the administration might secretly be pleased as it would give them the cover to drop down a level and slash the athletics budget.

If ULM is gone, then all your really doing is adding ArkySt, ULL, Troy, and S Alabama to the already existing CUSA West. The CUSA West guys dont lose anyone they were playing annually. If there is someone they really want to play out east--you can still do a OOC game. The same basic thing for CUSA East---they arent going to lose anyone they were playing regularly. If there is a western team they feel strongly about---they can schedule them as an OOC game. You probably wouldnt see them much more in football even if they were still in the conference.

I know Sideshow hates the idea---but if you really analyze the football schedule---it really wouldnt affect N Texas much at all. Even their division would almost look almost the same. It just cuts costs. That said---I think CUSA can gain a lot of the same efficiencies of a complete reorganization by simply doing this---

1) Cut cross divisional games in football to one. Nothing in the rules requires an 8 game schedule. You just have to play a full round robin in your division. You could literally just play 6 conference games in each division if you wanted to---and still qualify to have your CCG. The other 6 games could be all OOC games---nearby opponents or make money with buy games if you want. Lots of flexibility there.

2) Play divisions in basketball. Round robin home-and-home in the division (12 games) and then 4 crossover games using a pod system that pits the top of the west vs the top of the east (16 game total).

3) Use divisions for non-revenue sports. Play exclusively in the division for non-revenue sports (no crossover unless required by NCAA rules). West and East would only meet for championships in non-revenue sports.

Something like that would reduce your travel costs to very close to the same as you get with a complete reorganization.

Yup. I hate it. I'd rather North Texas be an independent than play in that irrelevant regional crap.

Funny how AAC fans would love to see C-USA and the Sun Belt realign into regional conferences that could never challenge them for the access bowl.

I wonder what AAC fans would think of the better programs forming a conference like this...

West
Southern Miss
LA Tech
North Texas
Rice
UAB
Troy

East
Marshall
App State
FAU
FIU
WKU
MTSU

I doubt they would be very intimidated by that conference. Most SBC fans and a fair amount of CUSA fans that i have talked to believe the SBC is ahead of CUSA at this point and you have the majority of teams being from CUSA. That doesn't add up. Not to mention, UL is a better program than half of these programs. Also, if you're not helping us with travel costs, you probably don't get App to join without Georgia Southern unless ECU drops down into the conference.

ULL has had two good season. As for the football strength of the Sun Belt... I'm not convinced yet. Sure App State and Troy have been ranked recently, but the rest of the conference isn't all that great.

In the past two seasons both C-USA and the Sun Belt have had half their teams finish the season with winning records. But in 2017, the Sun Belt only had 4 or 10 teams finish with a winning record while C-USA had 8 of 14. If you look at the other seasons since the 13 realignment, the Belt was even weaker.

When I look at the Sun Belt, it seems like a few at the top have been very good, while the majority of the Sun Belt has been mostly bad. But if you'd rather stay in the Sun Belt, that's fine with me too. I like C-USA the way it is now.

That's right. Much of perception is based on what you've done lately. I'd say the Sun Belt in recent years has held it's own with the obvious outlier App pushing the ceiling. GS came in to the conference from FCS in 2014 and went undefeated in conference. The wheels came off with the constant coaching turnover. Looks like solid progress with our recent staff. App fans throwing us bones despite the recent disappointment based on our long history of pushing one another.

USA is getting a really nice new stadium. Have you seen it?

https://usajaguars.com/watch/?Archive=4596&type=Archive

Ark state, Troy, ULL all solid runs at the top recently. Lot's of facility improvements among them.

Texas state still finding their legs. It'll happen. Have you seen their stadium? Solid facilities. Recent changes are increasing expectations in the near term.

CCU comes into conference play just having won the national championship in baseball. Fully expect continued progress from this program.

Ha I left out Ga state. Freudian slip.

That leaves ULM. CUSA's whipping boy it seems. None of us are that freakn great so all the chest thumping by belittling a relative peer becomes you IMO. I don't get it.

(05-25-2020 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:38 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:30 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 12:23 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  I... what? Money is not a mechanism. By put up or shut up, what do you mean by that? Does every member have to pay an entrance fee so high that ULM couldn't pay it? Would they have to commit a certain amount of money to facilities? What if they say they do and then don't? Does UL-L want to potentially get the Louisiana legislature involved by taking part in kicking out another University of Louisiana system member?

And they're not new conferences! Just new names and new members. For all legal purposes these are the exact same conferences as before. What if ULM refuses to leave what is currently the Sun Belt?

Let me be blunt, because obviously you aren’t understanding me. Tech would go independent before they ever joined a conference with ULM. ULL and Arkansas State would have no problem finding a way to trade Tech for ULM. I understand that they wouldn’t technically be new conferences, but do we consider the Big12 to be a new conference or the amalgamation of two conferences? It’s politics at its finest. You get a consensus from enough programs and find a way to make it work within the rules. Technically the Sunbelt or CUSA could move to form a new conference as long as they have 5 teams that have played together over a certain period of time. They would have to leave few teams to allow the old conference from continuing as an entity. See Southwest Conference.

I don't think you're understanding me. C-USA and Sun Belt aren't combining. They're just trading. And if you take your 8 schools and make a literal brand new conference from it, you will not have an autobid to the NCAA men's basketball tourney for 8 years, and you will not get money from the G5 CFP distribution as your conference would not be a signatory. So, to me, that option is dead on arrival.

What you're suggesting is that whatever conference ULM would end up in has enough votes to just kick them out. The Sun Belt could literally do that right now, they have always had the power to do that. But, doing that has it's own political ramifications and there's a reason conferences don't take that route very often. If ULM got kicked out of this consortium so La Tech could join, I would not be surprised to see lawsuits and the Louisiana state legislature get involved. If La Tech and ULL are fine with that though, then yeah, it's no big deal.

What would the lawsuit be for? The Big East kicked out Temple for poor performance and minimal investment. Wasnt much they could do because it was true. Its kind of a crappy thing to do---but I dont know that suing the conference would make any difference as long as the bylaws were followed. For all we know---the administration might secretly be pleased as it would give them the cover to drop down a level and slash the athletics budget.

If ULM is gone, then all your really doing is adding ArkySt, ULL, Troy, and S Alabama to the already existing CUSA West. The CUSA West guys dont lose anyone they were playing annually. If there is someone they really want to play out east--you can still do a OOC game. The same basic thing for CUSA East---they arent going to lose anyone they were playing regularly. If there is a western team they feel strongly about---they can schedule them as an OOC game. You probably wouldnt see them much more in football even if they were still in the conference.

I know Sideshow hates the idea---but if you really analyze the football schedule---it really wouldnt affect N Texas much at all. Even their division would almost look almost the same. It just cuts costs. That said---I think CUSA can gain a lot of the same efficiencies of a complete reorganization by simply doing this---

1) Cut cross divisional games in football to one. Nothing in the rules requires an 8 game schedule. You just have to play a full round robin in your division. You could literally just play 6 conference games in each division if you wanted to---and still qualify to have your CCG. The other 6 games could be all OOC games---nearby opponents or make money with buy games if you want. Lots of flexibility there.

2) Play divisions in basketball. Round robin home-and-home in the division (12 games) and then 4 crossover games using a pod system that pits the top of the west vs the top of the east (16 game total).

3) Use divisions for non-revenue sports. Play exclusively in the division for non-revenue sports (no crossover unless required by NCAA rules). West and East would only meet for championships in non-revenue sports.

Something like that would reduce your travel costs to very close to the same as you get with a complete reorganization.

Yup. I hate it. I'd rather North Texas be an independent than play in that irrelevant regional crap.

Funny how AAC fans would love to see C-USA and the Sun Belt realign into regional conferences that could never challenge them for the access bowl.

I wonder what AAC fans would think of the better programs forming a conference like this...

West
Southern Miss
LA Tech
North Texas
Rice
UAB
Troy

East
Marshall
App State
FAU
FIU
WKU
MTSU

I like that better than anything I've read in these threads.

(05-25-2020 12:07 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 11:54 AM)Nugget49er Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 11:49 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  I don't think that cherry picking who you want/don't want is going to be allowed in a merger/realign scenario. No one is going to agree to it if it leaves their school out of the mix, and trying to make a cherry picked conference is always going to leave enough on the outside to block those moves. Here's how I see it playing out:

Western Conference:
UTEP
UTSA
UNT
TXST
RICE
ASU
ULL
ULM
LATECH
USM
Little Rock (BB Only)
UTA (BB only)

Eastern Conference:
TROY
USA
UAB
WKU
MTSU
MARSHALL
ODU
UNCC
APP
CCU
GSU
GS
FIU
FAU

I grouped the three Alabama schools together, since I don't think splitting them up will work in any of these scenarios. I also put them in the East since I think that is what they would prefer. West gets the bb-only schools since that's what makes sense geographically.

I'm not saying this is the best 2 conferences that could be made with these pieces, but I think that what's above is the most likely outcome.

I agree with the approach you are taking and the reasons behind it, but the west would end up with 10 FB schools splitting the college football payout money, and the east would have 14. That may be a hurdle.

I really don't know why conferences agreed to a flat conference payment when some are bigger than others. It should be changed to a team payment so that each school receives the same amount.

it is per team... up to 10 teams. The money is the easy part because as part of negotiating an alliance the 20 shares could continue to be distributed as currently or however they want. Really they should do 6 divisions of 4 (3 CCGs) and give teams near infinite flexibility in creating their own schedules. Heck, they could even establish some promotion and relegation to the 3rd conference to angle for more TV money.

AAC may want to start thinking about it’s own backyard. Most running in the red, that’s fact. ESPN may deliver the final blow with UCONN exit.

AAC - Sunbelt merger could be coming sooner than you realize.

(05-25-2020 08:30 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 08:12 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 05:36 PM)High Country Student Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 01:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  What would the lawsuit be for? The Big East kicked out Temple for poor performance and minimal investment. Wasnt much they could do because it was true. Its kind of a crappy thing to do---but I dont know that suing the conference would make any difference as long as the bylaws were followed. For all we know---the administration might secretly be pleased as it would give them the cover to drop down a level and slash the athletics budget.

If ULM is gone, then all your really doing is adding ArkySt, ULL, Troy, and S Alabama to the already existing CUSA West. The CUSA West guys dont lose anyone they were playing annually. If there is someone they really want to play out east--you can still do a OOC game. The same basic thing for CUSA East---they arent going to lose anyone they were playing regularly. If there is a western team they feel strongly about---they can schedule them as an OOC game. You probably wouldnt see them much more in football even if they were still in the conference.

I know Sideshow hates the idea---but if you really analyze the football schedule---it really wouldnt affect N Texas much at all. Even their division would almost look almost the same. It just cuts costs. That said---I think CUSA can gain a lot of the same efficiencies of a complete reorganization by simply doing this---

1) Cut cross divisional games in football to one. Nothing in the rules requires an 8 game schedule. You just have to play a full round robin in your division. You could literally just play 6 conference games in each division if you wanted to---and still qualify to have your CCG. The other 6 games could be all OOC games---nearby opponents or make money with buy games if you want. Lots of flexibility there.

2) Play divisions in basketball. Round robin home-and-home in the division (12 games) and then 4 crossover games using a pod system that pits the top of the west vs the top of the east (16 game total).

3) Use divisions for non-revenue sports. Play exclusively in the division for non-revenue sports (no crossover unless required by NCAA rules). West and East would only meet for championships in non-revenue sports.

Something like that would reduce your travel costs to very close to the same as you get with a complete reorganization.

Yup. I hate it. I'd rather North Texas be an independent than play in that irrelevant regional crap.

Funny how AAC fans would love to see C-USA and the Sun Belt realign into regional conferences that could never challenge them for the access bowl.

I wonder what AAC fans would think of the better programs forming a conference like this...

West
Southern Miss
LA Tech
North Texas
Rice
UAB
Troy

East
Marshall
App State
FAU
FIU
WKU
MTSU

I doubt they would be very intimidated by that conference. Most SBC fans and a fair amount of CUSA fans that i have talked to believe the SBC is ahead of CUSA at this point and you have the majority of teams being from CUSA. That doesn't add up. Not to mention, UL is a better program than half of these programs. Also, if you're not helping us with travel costs, you probably don't get App to join without Georgia Southern unless ECU drops down into the conference.

ULL has had two good season. As for the football strength of the Sun Belt... I'm not convinced yet. Sure App State and Troy have been ranked recently, but the rest of the conference isn't all that great.

In the past two seasons both C-USA and the Sun Belt have had half their teams finish the season with winning records. But in 2017, the Sun Belt only had 4 or 10 teams finish with a winning record while C-USA had 8 of 14. If you look at the other seasons since the 13 realignment, the Belt was even weaker.

When I look at the Sun Belt, it seems like a few at the top have been very good, while the majority of the Sun Belt has been mostly bad. But if you'd rather stay in the Sun Belt, that's fine with me too. I like C-USA the way it is now.

That's right. Much of perception is based on what you've done lately. I'd say the Sun Belt in recent years has held it's own with the obvious outlier App pushing the ceiling. GS came in to the conference from FCS in 2014 and went undefeated in conference. The wheels came off with the constant coaching turnover. Looks like solid progress with our recent staff. App fans throwing us bones despite the recent disappointment based on our long history of pushing one another.

USA is getting a really nice new stadium. Have you seen it?

https://usajaguars.com/watch/?Archive=4596&type=Archive

Ark state, Troy, ULL all solid runs at the top recently. Lot's of facility improvements among them.

Texas state still finding their legs. It'll happen. Have you seen their stadium? Solid facilities. Recent changes are increasing expectations in the near term.

CCU comes into conference play just having won the national championship in baseball. Fully expect continued progress from this program.

Ha I left out Ga state. Freudian slip.

That leaves ULM. CUSA's whipping boy it seems. None of us are that freakn great so all the chest thumping by belittling a relative peer becomes you IMO. I don't get it.

I didn't thump my chest, I stated some winning record stats regarding our conferences since 2013. My opinion of how those stats reflect on the Sun Belt was not intended to hurt your feeling.

On the bright side, this is only off season realignment talk, and nothing will come from it.