(05-30-2020 11:41 PM)esayem Wrote: (05-30-2020 09:35 PM)Statefan Wrote: Folks forget MD formed the SoCon from the SAIAA. They formed the ACC with Duke and Clemson after VT and West Virginia pissed them off. Folks forget that PSU was above the Mason Dixon line and integrated. Only NC State and MD had any black ball players in the early 1960's. https://gopack.com/honors/nc-state-athle...-holmes/47
The racial history of Duke, UVa, and UNC-Ch is "whitewashed" to say the least. UVa didn't have a black athlete on scholarship until 1971, IIRC. Culturally, the ACC could not get the votes to invite a "Yankee" school until the 1980's
From 1953 to Penn State's entry to the Big 10, VT, West Va, Georgia Tech, Penn State, Florida, South Carolina, Syracuse, Miami, Florida State, and Notre Dame all came up from time to time. Some extended stronger feelers than others, especially VT and SC. But as long as an ACC Basketball Tournament Book was in jeopardy and as long as MD, Duke, and to a lesser degree UVa were peculiar, expansion was not happening.
Carolina gets more credit than it deserves for screwing the Conference when it comes expansion or non-competitive rules. As back-stabbing as they can be, Duke and MD have always done more to screw the ACC.
You’re leaving out ECU and Southern Miss (bizarre as it is they actually applied). Possibly William & Mary too.
Why do you think UNC went to bat for VaTech and WVU back in the inception days?
VT was done dirty by MD and Clemson. It's that simple. VT's President was under the gun from the Va Legislature to do something about the cheating scandal at William and Mary and football in general. Jim Tatum had made football bigger than the University at MD and he had Curly Byrd in his pocket. This is the same Jim Tatum that had NC State's playbook stolen before the 1946 Gator Bowl.
VT had been a charter member of SAIAA with Carolina, State, MD, and others since 1907. MD and Clemson wanted blood. MD and Duke re-recruited UVa to come back (they left in 1936) and had them back on board as the 8th. That caused the split vote on VT with NC schools forgiving and SC joining with Clemson.
West Va was just dead on arrival.
Here's an old snippet:
https://www.greensboro.com/southern-acc-...89b8b.html
The Greensboro News and Record is the de facto newspaper of record of the ACC that time.
That ECU wanted in the ACC is true, it is also true they could never even get a vote. There was no point to a vote on ECU and no reason to humiliate them or W&M. While it's true you need 3/4 to get in, you can't be opposed by a prior homestate member - that's unwritten but it's real. UVa would not allow any other Virginia school into the league. Carolina, Duke, and WF would not allow ECU into the league. No one is going to vote against another schools existential feelings, and Duke and UNC deftly avoided that with VT in 2003 by announcing they would oppose any expansion - giving VT the leverage they needed over UVa through the Governor.
Money might have changed the unwritten existential rule but it's yet to be tested. If Pitt opposed Penn State, I suspect that Pitt might get rolled. However, BC is not going to get rolled on UConn. If SC wanted back in the ACC, not that they do, it has to be okay with Clemson first and foremost. Clemson had to be okay with GT, first and foremost, and of course they were.
The ACC has operated like your quintessential cotillion or other private club for most of its existence. It's the formative cultural model of the area. Even when doing business that underlying history colors decisions.
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An extreme take on Pitt
