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Hawk on Gottlieb’s Podcast
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StrikeGold1 Offline
Bench Warmer

Posts: 104
Joined: Dec 2016
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I Root For: WMU
Post: #41
RE: Hawk on Gottlieb’s Podcast
(05-28-2020 07:02 PM)holybovine Wrote:  
(05-27-2020 10:14 PM)Cucumber Salad Wrote:  Holy bovine!

You had me there until the very end. I don’t know how you can determine that WMU most certainly hired somebody worse? What evidence do you have of that? Or did I wholly miss your point?

As it pertains to the other Mac west coaches I’m not clear as to who has recently signed Extensions that would leave the school on the hook but I would argue all of those names you’ve listed have a short lifeline to be extended again. First, they didn’t win anything. Second that last contract they signed was before the poop hit the fan financially.

TK is going to take a big pay cut. Same with Whitford. Since neither have won anything a school will decide let’s go hire somebody worse than this expensive predecessor. Or not.

The key to winning particularly at this level is recruiting talent. The reason Western declined the last five years was that they had a significant drop off an overall talent depth. When an injury so negatively impacts a team it’s evident you don’t have the necessary talent. And it does not hinge on a practice facility. Recruiting has to be your highest priority as it pertains to the lifeblood of the program. Pyramid of success is foundational. No question about it. But if you don’t have the athletic talent to win games decisively you’re always going to be a possession or two away from a L. That puts you near playing around 500. That is not sustainable for a career.

On Bates: As a leader, I don’t know how you can determine that a head coach’s program is substandard, and then hire one of his assistants. And don’t give me the hiring freeze or budget stuff. There are AWESOME juco coaches all over the country who would have given their left nut for a chance to lead Western, and they wouldn’t have costed a thing. Awful process, awful hire. One of the laziest things I’ve ever seen.

Most of the institutions in the “MAC West” are broke and can’t afford to buy out a fired coach. I know that explains most of the coaches on the list. Maybe the budget crisis will save many of them? Who is to say? Keno will be around a long time. And Rob Murphy is a goner unless they go to the NCAAs or NIT. I don’t know enough about the others to say anything.

As someone who went to college in the mid/late 90s, it pains me to see the erosion of a one dynamic basketball conference. And much of that decline has centered around substandard recruiting and coaching.

This is so dumb. If they wouldn't have hired Bates, we still wouldn't have a coach to this day and the entire roster would be gone. No recruiting class. Literally nothing.

EDIT: I'm gonna add to this cause it's really astounding how people dig their heels and don't look at the facts. March 11 - WMU moves on from Hawkins. March 13, WMU gets word there might be a hiring freeze. On March 19, Saddi Washington turns down the job (who all of us knew was the leading candidate to get the job). That same week he turned it down, WMU enacts a hiring freeze officially. This is all true. These are all based on facts. It was bad timing. It happened. Move on.

(This post was last modified: Yesterday 03:15 PM by StrikeGold1.)
Yesterday 02:49 PM
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Cucumber Salad Online
2nd String

Posts: 413
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 7
I Root For: WMU
Post: #42
RE: Hawk on Gottlieb’s Podcast
Hire a JC coach?
You have nothing but transfers or JC kids. If any of those. Do you want to talk about uncertainty?

Frankly I don’t know if Clayton Bates is a good bench coach. I’ve tried to watch him from a far for years. If he plays poker he must do very well. Oh I’m sure he’s gotten up to scream and yell. I’ve seen still pictures of that. My understanding is that he can recruit. And there is crucially important. As the head coach he has the last word.

I could share an anecdote I heard about eight years ago. I won’t. Long before anyone ever thought that recruiting or Hawk’s perspective on recruiting was an issue that anecdote which I trust to be true would’ve given you pause. Nothing monumental. Nor was the slide the last five years. I don’t think any of this conversation would be had if Dugan was healthy three years ago. Nor if Bryce or Brandon 2 years ago. I think the records would’ve been very different. But that didn’t play out. This underscores my earlier premise of meeting 8 to 9 deep highly competitive talented players who can take a hit of one or two others going down.

I think Steve Hawkins is more than capable division one head coach. The record speaks for itself. You’d have to be deaf, dumb and blind to disagree.
Not because I said so but because of the data.

Hawks downfall is in his DNA. He prides himself rightfully so in getting the right character kid who has at least a modicum of skill that he can develop. That character kid will work his butt off and get better on his own. But with Hawk and his staff the kid will get even better. The problem with counting on diamonds in the rough is that there’s some programs already with cut stones. And as your diamond develops they’ve been beating you’re in the rough guy for 2 to 3 years. And even in the last year when your guy becomes a polished diamond he still competing against multiple diamonds with more COGS Think of Joe Reitz.
Yesterday 04:19 PM
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