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Poll: Do you support moving the college baseball season?
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Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 10:14 AM)bullet Wrote:  Makes no sense for student-athletes to push it further into the summer. This is just another attempt by the Big 10 to justify their failure to achieve success.

I can understand the argument that it doesn't make sense for the student-athletes. If schools want to argue that their semesters are long completed prior to July and that's why they can't start the baseball season later, then that's fair.

However, the lack of success of baseball in the Big Ten is largely artificial due to the schedule. Of course the Big Ten teams are going to be weaker when they play at least the first 4 weeks of the season on the road and it's *entirely* due to the weather! It's not about the money or commitment from the Big Ten (see the facilities at places like Michigan and Ohio State) or the popularity of baseball in the North (as MLB's most popular franchises consistently include the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs and Cardinals), but simply the weather during the college baseball calendar.

Now, I can understand why Southern teams may not want to give up that artificial advantage, but we shouldn't pretend that the fact that half of the country is inhospitable for baseball for the first month of the season doesn't have a huge impact on which schools perform well in college baseball and its popularity.
05-21-2020 03:07 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 03:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 02:38 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 02:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  So we'll potentially have teams losing top players at the end of the season because they were high MLB draft picks in the second week of June and their organization doesn't want to risk a major injury for the additional month of the college season?

MLB does the draft still after the season. With the consolidation of the minors, no need to rush the draftees into a short season rookie league - let them play college ball for free, start the pro career in an end of summer/fall league.

And if the MLB doesn't go along with this, then what?

You team is on the road to the conference title and a chance to host a regional when suddenly on June 11th your leading batter and Friday night ace leave the team because they were second and third round picks. You don't win the conference, become a three seed on the road and are two and que in the sweltering heat of a July regional. Was it worth it then?


Or even better. When your school holds it's May graduation ceremonies the five senior leaders you have on your team decide that it's better to get on with their lives and get a paying job to cover the massive school loans they have accrued over the past four years since they were only getting 25% of a scholarship instead of playing baseball for free for the next two months.

I think MLB is inherently going along with this since that's exactly what they're planning: the short-season leagues are getting axed under their desired (demanded?) restructuring plan for the minor leagues. So, I don't think the draft getting pushed back is an issue because it's likely going to occur, anyway.

As for the second scenario about non/partial-scholarship seniors leaving for jobs, that seems like a strawman scenario. That same argument could apply to the current College World Series schedule that doesn't end until the middle of June.

As I've stated earlier, if schools want to argue that moving the start of the baseball season later is problematic simply because the new end of the season would extend too far beyond the end of the academic school year, then I completely understand that position.

However, if we're talking purely about what's best for the game of baseball itself, then I can't see how anyone can defend starting the season in February outside of Southern schools looking for an artificial weather advantage over Northern schools. It's not an accident that all other levels of baseball don't start until late-March at the earliest: prior to that point, you physically *can't* play baseball in half of the country.

Plus, from a financial standpoint, the NCAA benefits if the College World Series is pushed later into July when it's not competing with the NBA Finals, Stanley Cup Final and/or U.S. Open at the same time. The College World Series could essentially *own* the Fourth of July weekend in a way that could never happen with its current June dates. All of the conferences that have their own TV networks (plus Texas with the Longhorn Network) also come close to becoming year-round TV networks if the baseball season is pushed out an additional month. ESPN and other TV networks are more likely to pay higher rights fees for college baseball games if they're filling time slots in the programming-starved summer months as opposed to the super-competitive spring stretch that includes March Madness, The Masters, the start of the MLB season, the NBA and NHL playoffs, Kentucky Derby, French Open, PGA Championship, etc.

If schools can wring some more revenue out of baseball in a way that it didn't exist before, then that's going to be more compelling in this age where the pandemic is decimating college budgets. That's exactly why the proposals being floated in the OP article seem to be getting much more traction in today's environment. The bottom line: every school is going to look to cut costs... and, by the same token, every school is going to look to squeeze out more revenue anywhere that they can. Leaving money on the table isn't an option anymore.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2020 03:30 PM by Frank the Tank.)
05-21-2020 03:25 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 03:25 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 03:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 02:38 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 02:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  So we'll potentially have teams losing top players at the end of the season because they were high MLB draft picks in the second week of June and their organization doesn't want to risk a major injury for the additional month of the college season?

MLB does the draft still after the season. With the consolidation of the minors, no need to rush the draftees into a short season rookie league - let them play college ball for free, start the pro career in an end of summer/fall league.

And if the MLB doesn't go along with this, then what?

You team is on the road to the conference title and a chance to host a regional when suddenly on June 11th your leading batter and Friday night ace leave the team because they were second and third round picks. You don't win the conference, become a three seed on the road and are two and que in the sweltering heat of a July regional. Was it worth it then?


Or even better. When your school holds it's May graduation ceremonies the five senior leaders you have on your team decide that it's better to get on with their lives and get a paying job to cover the massive school loans they have accrued over the past four years since they were only getting 25% of a scholarship instead of playing baseball for free for the next two months.

I think MLB is inherently going along with this since that's exactly what they're planning: the short-season leagues are getting axed under their desired (demanded?) restructuring plan for the minor leagues. So, I don't think the draft getting pushed back is an issue because it's likely going to occur, anyway.

I've seen nothing that indicates the MLB being interested in moving it's draft back. The idea that they will is pure speculation on your part.

Quote:As for the second scenario about non/partial-scholarship seniors leaving for jobs, that seems like a strawman scenario. That same argument could apply to the current College World Series schedule that doesn't end until the middle of June.
You are not only creating the fantasy that MLB will move back their draft and are now trying to equate the graduation of players at the end of the regular season for most schools with the graduation of players at the mid-point of the season in this scenario and I'M the one putting forward a strawman scenario? Laughable.

Quote:As I've stated earlier, if schools want to argue that moving the start of the baseball season later is problematic simply because the new end of the season would extend too far beyond the end of the academic school year, then I completely understand that position.

And the problems with this have already been covered and absolutely ignored by the folks who want to screw over the student-athletes nationwide because their school is located in cold weather country.
05-21-2020 04:03 PM
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Big Frog II Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
College baseball can become the minor league to MLB.
05-21-2020 04:25 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 04:03 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 03:25 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 03:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 02:38 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 02:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  So we'll potentially have teams losing top players at the end of the season because they were high MLB draft picks in the second week of June and their organization doesn't want to risk a major injury for the additional month of the college season?

MLB does the draft still after the season. With the consolidation of the minors, no need to rush the draftees into a short season rookie league - let them play college ball for free, start the pro career in an end of summer/fall league.

And if the MLB doesn't go along with this, then what?

You team is on the road to the conference title and a chance to host a regional when suddenly on June 11th your leading batter and Friday night ace leave the team because they were second and third round picks. You don't win the conference, become a three seed on the road and are two and que in the sweltering heat of a July regional. Was it worth it then?


Or even better. When your school holds it's May graduation ceremonies the five senior leaders you have on your team decide that it's better to get on with their lives and get a paying job to cover the massive school loans they have accrued over the past four years since they were only getting 25% of a scholarship instead of playing baseball for free for the next two months.

I think MLB is inherently going along with this since that's exactly what they're planning: the short-season leagues are getting axed under their desired (demanded?) restructuring plan for the minor leagues. So, I don't think the draft getting pushed back is an issue because it's likely going to occur, anyway.

I've seen nothing that indicates the MLB being interested in moving it's draft back. The idea that they will is pure speculation on your part.

Quote:As for the second scenario about non/partial-scholarship seniors leaving for jobs, that seems like a strawman scenario. That same argument could apply to the current College World Series schedule that doesn't end until the middle of June.
You are not only creating the fantasy that MLB will move back their draft and are now trying to equate the graduation of players at the end of the regular season for most schools with the graduation of players at the mid-point of the season in this scenario and I'M the one putting forward a strawman scenario? Laughable.

Quote:As I've stated earlier, if schools want to argue that moving the start of the baseball season later is problematic simply because the new end of the season would extend too far beyond the end of the academic school year, then I completely understand that position.

And the problems with this have already been covered and absolutely ignored by the folks who want to screw over the student-athletes nationwide because their school is located in cold weather country.

Not a made-up speculative fantasy about the MLB Draft moving at all. From the Sports Illustrated article on the proposed MLB changes:

Quote:In addition to the changes in working conditions, the proposal, if implemented, also would see the amateur draft reduced from 40 to 20 rounds, which would drastically reducing the player pool. The draft would also be moved from June to August, with the contracts for the draftees beginning the following season. Instead, the players would "report to the major league team complexes and undergo analytics indoctrination—i.e. the analyzation of the hitters’ bat speeds, launch angles etc., and the pitchers’ spin rates, arm strengths and grips," according to Bill Madden of the New York Daily News. This part of the proposal has been dubbed the "Houston Plan," with much of it being conceived by the Astros and their general manager, Jeff Luhnow.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/11/18/new-pr...ball-teams

I will grant (and have already granted) that if the decision that it's not right for student-athletes to play through June from an academic perspective, then I completely understand that side of the equation.

However, anyone that's trying to argue that it's somehow better to start playing baseball in February anywhere other than Arizona or south of Orlando compared to the end of March is trying to protect an artificial weather advantage that *only* occurs in college baseball and doesn't exist at any other level of baseball.

Look at the OP article! Even the coaches at TCU, Louisville and Vanderbilt (all of whom actually do get more of a weather advantage compared to a Big Ten school like Michigan) agree with this proposal! They think February baseball games are crappy even in places like Dallas and Nashville. Freaking Dr. James Andrews (the Father of the Tommy John Surgery) is quoted as wondering how anyone could possibly argue with this proposal from an injury prevention perspective!

So, it's not better for the sport of baseball itself or revenue for the schools. If student-athletes are truly better off with the current schedule, then that argument is fine, although note that the current schedule requires half of the country to travel for the entire month of February (which isn't exactly conducive to academics) and the potential reduction in injuries from moving the schedule is analyzed extensively in the OP article.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2020 04:32 PM by Frank the Tank.)
05-21-2020 04:31 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
Message to TCU, Vanderbilt and Louisville coaches Frank.

Don't like the weather at home early on? Hit the road then. Come out west. California and Arizona schools would like to host you. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2020 04:39 PM by jdgaucho.)
05-21-2020 04:38 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 04:31 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  However, anyone that's trying to argue that it's somehow better to start playing baseball in February anywhere other than Arizona or south of Orlando compared to the end of March is trying to protect an artificial weather advantage that *only* occurs in college baseball and doesn't exist at any other level of baseball.

Artificial weather advantage is BS. Oregon State has won the College World Series three times in recent years, from a campus that is cold and rainy the entire winter, and where they don't have a Michigan-sized budget for indoor practice facilities.

The real "weather advantage" for various college baseball teams is in where the recruits are. There are more top baseball players growing up in places where they can play travel ball year round or almost year round, that's the south, Texas, Arizona, and southern California. You can't fix that issue by taking the "college" out of college baseball.
05-21-2020 04:43 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 04:43 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 04:31 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  However, anyone that's trying to argue that it's somehow better to start playing baseball in February anywhere other than Arizona or south of Orlando compared to the end of March is trying to protect an artificial weather advantage that *only* occurs in college baseball and doesn't exist at any other level of baseball.

Artificial weather advantage is BS. Oregon State has won the College World Series three times in recent years, from a campus that is cold and rainy the entire winter, and where they don't have a Michigan-sized budget for indoor practice facilities.

The real "weather advantage" for various college baseball teams is in where the recruits are. There are more top baseball players growing up in places where they can play travel ball year round or almost year round, that's the south, Texas, Arizona, and southern California. You can't fix that issue by taking the "college" out of college baseball.

That’s fair to point out recruits, but that same recruiting advantage occurs in football... yet the league that makes the most money from it is the comparatively recruiting-challenged Big Ten. So, yes, having to travel on the road for the first month of the season because schools *physically* cannot play at home because of the weather (and not because they’re looking for guarantee game pay days or can’t afford facilities or better coaches or a whole host of other issues that are in the control of an athletic department) provides an artificial advantage to schools that don’t need to do the same. The fact that Oregon State was able to overcome that disadvantage is amazing, but that’s clearly an exception and even their weather is nowhere near the same level of cold in February as it is in the Northeast and Midwest while they play in a conference where half of their teams are in California or Arizona.

Spring training baseball in Arizona and Florida at the end of February is great, but there’s a reason why those are practice games and MLB doesn’t start real games until a month later. It doesn’t make sense to play baseball in February anywhere else in the country compared to April, May and June.
05-21-2020 05:07 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 05:07 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 04:43 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 04:31 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  However, anyone that's trying to argue that it's somehow better to start playing baseball in February anywhere other than Arizona or south of Orlando compared to the end of March is trying to protect an artificial weather advantage that *only* occurs in college baseball and doesn't exist at any other level of baseball.

Artificial weather advantage is BS. Oregon State has won the College World Series three times in recent years, from a campus that is cold and rainy the entire winter, and where they don't have a Michigan-sized budget for indoor practice facilities.

The real "weather advantage" for various college baseball teams is in where the recruits are. There are more top baseball players growing up in places where they can play travel ball year round or almost year round, that's the south, Texas, Arizona, and southern California. You can't fix that issue by taking the "college" out of college baseball.

That’s fair to point out recruits, but that same recruiting advantage occurs in football... yet the league that makes the most money from it is the comparatively recruiting-challenged Big Ten. So, yes, having to travel on the road for the first month of the season because schools *physically* cannot play at home because of the weather (and not because they’re looking for guarantee game pay days or can’t afford facilities or better coaches or a whole host of other issues that are in the control of an athletic department) provides an artificial advantage to schools that don’t need to do the same. The fact that Oregon State was able to overcome that disadvantage is amazing, but that’s clearly an exception and even their weather is nowhere near the same level of cold in February as it is in the Northeast and Midwest while they play in a conference where half of their teams are in California or Arizona.

Spring training baseball in Arizona and Florida at the end of February is great, but there’s a reason why those are practice games and MLB doesn’t start real games until a month later. It doesn’t make sense to play baseball in February anywhere else in the country compared to April, May and June.

Oregon State doesn't play any conference games on the road in February. Their earliest conference road game in 2019 was on March 15. Having conference mates in warmer states doesn't help their baseball team one bit.

The reason MLB doesn't start its regular season until the last week in March is M-O-N-E-Y. They want the warmer weather in order to sell more tickets, not for any other reason. In what is supposed to be "college" baseball, the least you could do is accommodate the best interests of the UNPAID athletes by not extending the season 4 or 5 more weeks after the end of the school year than it already is.

If you want a summer baseball league in Big Ten country after the students are long gone, might as well just license the school logos and uniforms to minor league teams, because this proposal is pretty much just minor league baseball except that the players are unpaid.
05-21-2020 05:21 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
Baseball is a summer sport. Why not play it in the summer and the players can attend summer school classes just like real students.
05-21-2020 05:25 PM
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RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
With regards to the argument that more people would attend if the game was played in the summer, I’ll actually counter that fewer will attend since the students will be out of session. If the entire argument is warmer weather for fans, then my question is, why aren’t any northern teams pushing for summer football? Seems a bit like a double standard. Now if the argument is more practice for the players, I’ll counter once again that playing in the summer is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard for players in the southeast, south central, and southwest. Do you really want kids playing in Arizona in June/July in 110 degree heat? You think that’s a good thing to do? And before anyone says, MLB this or MiLB that, let me make a couple points. 1. The vast majority of major league franchises in southern states play in domes/retractable stadiums. 2. No one really cares about minor league players. MLB treats them basically like fodder.
05-21-2020 05:38 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
Here is the full PDF that D1Baseball posted.

https://cdn.d1baseball.com/uploads/2020/...Model-.pdf
05-21-2020 06:05 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 05:38 PM)3BNole Wrote:  With regards to the argument that more people would attend if the game was played in the summer, I’ll actually counter that fewer will attend since the students will be out of session. If the entire argument is warmer weather for fans, then my question is, why aren’t any northern teams pushing for summer football? Seems a bit like a double standard. Now if the argument is more practice for the players, I’ll counter once again that playing in the summer is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard for players in the southeast, south central, and southwest. Do you really want kids playing in Arizona in June/July in 110 degree heat? You think that’s a good thing to do? And before anyone says, MLB this or MiLB that, let me make a couple points. 1. The vast majority of major league franchises in southern states play in domes/retractable stadiums. 2. No one really cares about minor league players. MLB treats them basically like fodder.

No doubt that playing Florida and Arizona can suck in June, but it’s still quite different where it’s *impossible* to play baseball in most of the North in February. It’s not merely discomfort - it literally cannot be done.

Once again, I’m not here to argue about whether it’s good for the students to be playing in June and July when the semester might have ended in May. Believe me - I’m on the “pay the players” side of pretty much all debates. If it’s truly not good for those players, then that’s fair.

However, from a pure competitive and economic standpoint at a national level, there’s simply no way that starting baseball in February is superior to starting as late as feasible in March at a minimum. There’s less internal competition from college basketball, less external competition from other pro sports as you get into June, better attendance (as shown by the attendance charts in the OP article comparing month-by-month attendance and how it dramatically rises after February at nearly all those schools analyzed... and note that all of those schools analyzed are in the Sun Belt). To be sure, that has to be weighed against the interests of the student-athletes, but no one can tell me with a straight face that February baseball outside of Florida and Arizona is great compared to April games (much less May and June) everywhere else.
05-21-2020 06:18 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 06:18 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 05:38 PM)3BNole Wrote:  With regards to the argument that more people would attend if the game was played in the summer, I’ll actually counter that fewer will attend since the students will be out of session. If the entire argument is warmer weather for fans, then my question is, why aren’t any northern teams pushing for summer football? Seems a bit like a double standard. Now if the argument is more practice for the players, I’ll counter once again that playing in the summer is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard for players in the southeast, south central, and southwest. Do you really want kids playing in Arizona in June/July in 110 degree heat? You think that’s a good thing to do? And before anyone says, MLB this or MiLB that, let me make a couple points. 1. The vast majority of major league franchises in southern states play in domes/retractable stadiums. 2. No one really cares about minor league players. MLB treats them basically like fodder.

No doubt that playing Florida and Arizona can suck in June, but it’s still quite different where it’s *impossible* to play baseball in most of the North in February. It’s not merely discomfort - it literally cannot be done.

Once again, I’m not here to argue about whether it’s good for the students to be playing in June and July when the semester might have ended in May. Believe me - I’m on the “pay the players” side of pretty much all debates. If it’s truly not good for those players, then that’s fair.

However, from a pure competitive and economic standpoint at a national level, there’s simply no way that starting baseball in February is superior to starting as late as feasible in March at a minimum. There’s less internal competition from college basketball, less external competition from other pro sports as you get into June, better attendance (as shown by the attendance charts in the OP article comparing month-by-month attendance and how it dramatically rises after February at nearly all those schools analyzed... and note that all of those schools analyzed are in the Sun Belt). To be sure, that has to be weighed against the interests of the student-athletes, but no one can tell me with a straight face that February baseball outside of Florida and Arizona is great compared to April games (much less May and June) everywhere else.

MLB had kicked around the idea of playing all games in Arizona during June - mostly at night. It's hot, but not bad - probably better than a day game in May in most of the South. Rookie League plays all summer here, not a problem.
05-21-2020 06:38 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 02:32 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 10:37 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 10:14 AM)bullet Wrote:  Makes no sense for student-athletes to push it further into the summer. This is just another attempt by the Big 10 to justify their failure to achieve success.

This
BIG= bad at baseball, I don't think anybody is denying that?

But where is this just a Big 10 deal? Did you even read the article?

The Big 10 schools have been pushing this for 20 years and complaining about the advantages the southern schools have. This is nothing new.
05-21-2020 07:51 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 03:07 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 10:14 AM)bullet Wrote:  Makes no sense for student-athletes to push it further into the summer. This is just another attempt by the Big 10 to justify their failure to achieve success.

I can understand the argument that it doesn't make sense for the student-athletes. If schools want to argue that their semesters are long completed prior to July and that's why they can't start the baseball season later, then that's fair.

However, the lack of success of baseball in the Big Ten is largely artificial due to the schedule. Of course the Big Ten teams are going to be weaker when they play at least the first 4 weeks of the season on the road and it's *entirely* due to the weather! It's not about the money or commitment from the Big Ten (see the facilities at places like Michigan and Ohio State) or the popularity of baseball in the North (as MLB's most popular franchises consistently include the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs and Cardinals), but simply the weather during the college baseball calendar.

Now, I can understand why Southern teams may not want to give up that artificial advantage, but we shouldn't pretend that the fact that half of the country is inhospitable for baseball for the first month of the season doesn't have a huge impact on which schools perform well in college baseball and its popularity.

Wichita St. traditionally was very good in baseball. Maine, Kent St. and Oregon were making it in the college world series. The only reason the Big 10 went 40 or 50 years out of it was a lack of committment. They have the money. And there is talent.
05-21-2020 07:55 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 06:18 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 05:38 PM)3BNole Wrote:  With regards to the argument that more people would attend if the game was played in the summer, I’ll actually counter that fewer will attend since the students will be out of session. If the entire argument is warmer weather for fans, then my question is, why aren’t any northern teams pushing for summer football? Seems a bit like a double standard. Now if the argument is more practice for the players, I’ll counter once again that playing in the summer is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard for players in the southeast, south central, and southwest. Do you really want kids playing in Arizona in June/July in 110 degree heat? You think that’s a good thing to do? And before anyone says, MLB this or MiLB that, let me make a couple points. 1. The vast majority of major league franchises in southern states play in domes/retractable stadiums. 2. No one really cares about minor league players. MLB treats them basically like fodder.

No doubt that playing Florida and Arizona can suck in June, but it’s still quite different where it’s *impossible* to play baseball in most of the North in February. It’s not merely discomfort - it literally cannot be done.

Once again, I’m not here to argue about whether it’s good for the students to be playing in June and July when the semester might have ended in May. Believe me - I’m on the “pay the players” side of pretty much all debates. If it’s truly not good for those players, then that’s fair.

However, from a pure competitive and economic standpoint at a national level, there’s simply no way that starting baseball in February is superior to starting as late as feasible in March at a minimum. There’s less internal competition from college basketball, less external competition from other pro sports as you get into June, better attendance (as shown by the attendance charts in the OP article comparing month-by-month attendance and how it dramatically rises after February at nearly all those schools analyzed... and note that all of those schools analyzed are in the Sun Belt). To be sure, that has to be weighed against the interests of the student-athletes, but no one can tell me with a straight face that February baseball outside of Florida and Arizona is great compared to April games (much less May and June) everywhere else.

It is just totally unfair to the student-athletes for jobs or baseball or anything else to stretch out the season to July. Most schools are done late May. All but 16 are done by the first week of June and all but 8 by the 2nd week.

Now if they want to shorten the season and start a little later, that's a different question.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2020 08:03 PM by bullet.)
05-21-2020 08:01 PM
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cubucks Online
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Post: #38
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 07:51 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 02:32 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 10:37 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 10:14 AM)bullet Wrote:  Makes no sense for student-athletes to push it further into the summer. This is just another attempt by the Big 10 to justify their failure to achieve success.

This
BIG= bad at baseball, I don't think anybody is denying that?

But where is this just a Big 10 deal? Did you even read the article?

The Big 10 schools have been pushing this for 20 years and complaining about the advantages the southern schools have. This is nothing new.
I don't follow baseball that closely to know if what you're saying is true or false about the BIG pushing this for 20 years?

I'm reading the article that this thread is based on and it is not specific to one conference as you previously mentioned. Hell, it even mentioned LSU pushing this back in the 90's. I find it interesting that things like this are being discussed and was quite surprised how some southern teams even support it.

I do like baseball enough though to be interested in this discussion.
05-21-2020 08:11 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 07:51 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 02:32 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 10:37 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 10:14 AM)bullet Wrote:  Makes no sense for student-athletes to push it further into the summer. This is just another attempt by the Big 10 to justify their failure to achieve success.

This
BIG= bad at baseball, I don't think anybody is denying that?

But where is this just a Big 10 deal? Did you even read the article?

The Big 10 schools have been pushing this for 20 years and complaining about the advantages the southern schools have. This is nothing new.

Oh - I get it. I’m one of the Big Ten fans complaining here. Guilty as charged!

However, what’s different about the OP article that it isn’t just a Big Ten Coach complaining about the schedule (which is what I initially thought it would be). Instead, it goes into a fair amount of detail with Big 12, SEC and ACC coaches that actually talk about how they’d be better off without February games and would make more revenue shifting the schedule, too. It shows how school attendance keeps rising through April, May and into June while being much more tepid in February even in locations where you can still play during that time of year.

I totally understand your argument about having to keep players during the summer. That being said, you see basketball teams having summer practices and overseas trips and many Division I baseball players play summer league ball. Now, if people want to argue that these aren’t paid players and it’s simply too much, then I get it. I totally get it.

My only pushback here is purely based on what’s the optimal schedule for playing baseball from a fan interest and revenue perspective and the article is pretty persuasive that it’s more beneficial financially for even the Southern teams for shift the start of the season later. They didn’t even mention an additional month of live programming for the conference networks and LHN, which turn those closer to year-round networks. We’re in a world where we have several threads on this board discussing how colleges are cutting sports and might be in danger of closing down completely. That’s why if we see something that can actually produce more revenue in college sports and it’s largely about simply shifting the schedule, then it’s going to get consideration in a way that it might not have just a couple of months ago.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2020 08:16 PM by Frank the Tank.)
05-21-2020 08:15 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Premier P5 coaches unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’
(05-21-2020 07:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 03:07 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 10:14 AM)bullet Wrote:  Makes no sense for student-athletes to push it further into the summer. This is just another attempt by the Big 10 to justify their failure to achieve success.

I can understand the argument that it doesn't make sense for the student-athletes. If schools want to argue that their semesters are long completed prior to July and that's why they can't start the baseball season later, then that's fair.

However, the lack of success of baseball in the Big Ten is largely artificial due to the schedule. Of course the Big Ten teams are going to be weaker when they play at least the first 4 weeks of the season on the road and it's *entirely* due to the weather! It's not about the money or commitment from the Big Ten (see the facilities at places like Michigan and Ohio State) or the popularity of baseball in the North (as MLB's most popular franchises consistently include the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs and Cardinals), but simply the weather during the college baseball calendar.

Now, I can understand why Southern teams may not want to give up that artificial advantage, but we shouldn't pretend that the fact that half of the country is inhospitable for baseball for the first month of the season doesn't have a huge impact on which schools perform well in college baseball and its popularity.

Wichita St. traditionally was very good in baseball. Maine, Kent St. and Oregon were making it in the college world series. The only reason the Big 10 went 40 or 50 years out of it was a lack of committment. They have the money. And there is talent.

Maine hasn't made it since they eliminated the geographic based regions (someone from the Northeast HAD to make it. Kent has been to the College WS ONCE. Oregon went ONCE - in 1954. Wichita State hasn't been since 1996.
05-21-2020 08:51 PM
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