(08-11-2020 05:03 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  Agreed, they should cut the number of games on weekdays. The whole idea of shifting 4 games to Tuesday and Thursday every week of November just for one of them to maybe be selected for ESPN2, while the rest get regulated to ESPNU or ESPN3 is pointless.

The deal to be on ESPN2 is clearly that the MAC schedules 2 so that ESPN can take its preference for ESPN2.

For the MACtion period in 2019, the first week of MACtion was "week 11", with 3 games, 2 on November 5th (Tue), one on ESPN2, one on November 6th (Wed), on ESPN2. (Week 10 was 3 days earlier with the other three conference games).

The second week was week 12, with two Tuesday, two Wednesday, one Thursday and one Saturday game. The two pairs were on ESPN2 and ESPNU, the Thursday game was on CBSSN, and the Saturday game was on CBSSN.

The third week was week 13, with two Tuesday games, two Wednesday games, and one Saturday game. The weeknight pairs were on ESPN2 and ESPNU, and the Saturday game was on ESPN+.

The fourth week was Thanksgiving week, with two on Tuesday and and four on Black Friday. Thanksgiving week was the only one that fit the dismal description above, with the Tuesday pair on ESPNU and ESPN+ and the Black Friday games on ESPNU, CBSSN, and two on ESPN+.

Thanksgiving is just a killer. In 2019, the Egg Bowl was played on Thursday, Virginia vs Virginia Tech and the Apple Cup on Friday, just because there's no oxygen on Saturday with The Game, the Iron Bowl, Bedlam, Louisville at Kentucky, Georgia at Georgia Tech, Notre Dame / Stanford, Florida State / Florida, UNC / NCSU, Arizona at Arizona State.

But aside from Thanksgiving Week, it seems like the picture you are painting is fictitious. When four were scheduled for Tuesday/Wednesday, two were on ESPN2 and two were on ESPNU.

One thing the MAC should be doing is scheduling its Rivalry Week in the 3rd Saturday in October, with Toledo/Bowling Green, Ohio/Miami, and Kent/Akron locked on that weekend.

If the Battle of Michigan games rotate, since EMU might not be onboard with the CMU/WMU game being singled out as "the" Michigan rivalry game, then in turn the 1st game of the Battle for Michigan would be before "MAC Rivalry Week" and the finale the following week, so all three schools are guaranteed their home "Battle of Michigan" game is before MACtion starts.

(08-13-2020 05:16 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  One thing the MAC should be doing is scheduling its Rivalry Week in the 3rd Saturday in October, with Toledo/Bowling Green, Ohio/Miami, and Kent/Akron locked on that weekend.

Would ESPN regard this as poaching though?

(08-13-2020 05:38 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(08-13-2020 05:16 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  One thing the MAC should be doing is scheduling its Rivalry Week in the 3rd Saturday in October, with Toledo/Bowling Green, Ohio/Miami, and Kent/Akron locked on that weekend.

Would ESPN regard this as poaching though?

Why would they? As counter-programming to NBA basketball games, it doesn't much matter whether Toledo is playing WMU or Bowling Green.

That might matter to how many people show up to the game in Toledo, but what matters is there is football on ESPN2, you vaguely recognize the schools involved, and then because they are MAC schools who typically don't have the defensive depth chart to have smothering lockdown defenses, there's often action and swings in momentum in the second half as you have tiring first stringers or less experience and/or talented second stringers coming out on defense.

Indeed, since they would mostly be on ESPN+, they could even pitch a coordinated marketing campaign to sell people on ESPN+ subscriptions ... "Remember, the Third Week of October is MACtion Rivalry Saturday, and with ESPN+, you'll be prepared to catch all of the excitement!" (mind, the flipside of that kind of promotion is no selling on MACtion Rivalry Week games to CBSSN).

(08-13-2020 05:16 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-11-2020 05:03 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  Agreed, they should cut the number of games on weekdays. The whole idea of shifting 4 games to Tuesday and Thursday every week of November just for one of them to maybe be selected for ESPN2, while the rest get regulated to ESPNU or ESPN3 is pointless.

The deal to be on ESPN2 is clearly that the MAC schedules 2 so that ESPN can take its preference for ESPN2.

I get what ESPN wants. They want to select from two games on what game they think would televise best. I'm saying the MAC should only schedule 1 game per weekday, which is essentially to tell ESPN this is the only game you get to televise.

I just don't see the point on playing weekday games to be on ESPNU or ESPN+. We can play on Saturday for that kind of coverage.

The last 4 weeks of the season or so the MAC and SBC should each have a Tuesday and a Wednesday night game scheduled.

ESPN can pick which one airs on ESPN2 and which one is on ESPNU. Set a minimum number of ESPN2 games for each conference to ensure that the same conference isn’t always being the one bumped to the less popular network. Problem solved.

(08-14-2020 08:28 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(08-13-2020 05:16 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-11-2020 05:03 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  Agreed, they should cut the number of games on weekdays. The whole idea of shifting 4 games to Tuesday and Thursday every week of November just for one of them to maybe be selected for ESPN2, while the rest get regulated to ESPNU or ESPN3 is pointless.

The deal to be on ESPN2 is clearly that the MAC schedules 2 so that ESPN can take its preference for ESPN2.

I get what ESPN wants. They want to select from two games on what game they think would televise best. I'm saying the MAC should only schedule 1 game per weekday, which is essentially to tell ESPN this is the only game you get to televise.

I'm saying I don't think that is the deal, so if the MAC wants to renege on the deal, they also would allow ESPN to get out of paying what they agreed to pay.

Quote: I just don't see the point on playing weekday games to be on ESPNU or ESPN+. We can play on Saturday for that kind of coverage.

The point is to be able to get guaranteed carriage on ESPN2. If the MAC guarantees one weekday Tuesday and one weekday Wednesday game, it seems likely the best carriage guarantee they could get in return is ESPNU or better.

______________________________

(08-14-2020 10:32 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The last 4 weeks of the season or so the MAC and SBC should each have a Tuesday and a Wednesday night game scheduled.

ESPN can pick which one airs on ESPN2 and which one is on ESPNU. Set a minimum number of ESPN2 games for each conference to ensure that the same conference isn’t always being the one bumped to the less popular network. Problem solved.

That doesn't solve the problem for the MAC of getting the most money possible from ESPN ... instead it shares some of the current money with the Sunbelt, while it seems like it would also cut MAC ESPN2 exposure in half.

Is it really exposure if the MAC is playing 3 games on Tuesday night and then 3 more on Wednesday and each night one of those each night is getting sub licensed to CBSSN?

It makes more sense to trade of some tv money for gate revenue and concessions money by allowing more games to be played in traditional Saturday time slots and for those viewing at home picked up on ESPN+

if each school is only hosting 1 MACTION weeknight game it’ll fill more unique and should make for a more lively atmosphere

(08-16-2020 06:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Is it really exposure if the MAC is playing 3 games on Tuesday night and then 3 more on Wednesday and each night one of those each night is getting sub licensed to CBSSN?

As I noted, what you describe never happened in any week in 2019.

What about 2018?

Week 10 (Monday October 29th to Saturday: November 3rd)
Tuesday, 2 games, ESPN2/ESPNU
Wednesday, 1 game, ESPN2
Thursday 2 games, CBSSN/ESPNU
Saturday, 1 game, ESPN3

Week 11:
Tuesday, 1 game, ESPNU
Wednesday, 2 games, ESPN2/ESPNU
Saturday, 2 games, ESPN3/ESPN+

Week 12:
Tuesday, 1 game, ESPN2
Wednesday, 2 games, ESPN2/ESPNU
Thursday, 1 game, CBSSN
Saturday, 1 game, ESPN3

Week 13: (Thanksgiving)
Tuesday, 2 games, ESPNU/ESPN+
Black Friday, 4 games, ESPNU/CBSSN/ESPN3(x2)


So for Tuesday/Wednesday games, where are this "ESPN2/ESPNU|ESPN+/CBSSN" scheduling?

ESPN2: 5
ESPNU: 6*
ESPN3/ESPN+: 1*
CBSSN: 0
{* 1 during Thanksgiving week)

Your schedule is 33% ESPN2, 33% ESPNU/3/+, 33% CSBSN, when the reality was 42% ESPN2, 58% ESPNU/3/+, 0% CSBSSN. And before Thanksgiving, 50%/50%/0%.

So no need to answer your question, it's a question about a fictitious deal, not the actual deal that the MAC has. Never 3 games on Tuesday, never 3 games on Wednesday, and except for Thanksgiving week, half of the Tuesday/Wednesday games on ESPN2.

So because the CBSSN games were in Thursday and not Tues/Wed you’re going to ignore them?

My issue here is the volume of weeknight games:

Week 10: 5 of 6
Week 11: 3 of 5
Week 12: 4 of 5
Week 13: 6 of 6

TOTAL: 18 of 22, only 5 of which were on ESPN2 and another 7 on ESPNU.

There is zero reason to play on a weeknight if you’re going to be relegated below ESPNU.

Cut the weeknight games down from 18 to say 10-12 and that’s much more reasonable for the fans. No one should be hosting more than 1 weeknight game.

(08-17-2020 01:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So because the CBSSN games were in Thursday and not Tues/Wed you’re going to ignore them?

You didn't say anything about Thursday night games, you said Tuesday and Wednesday night games were three games a night with only one on ESPN2, and that's not true.

Quote: TOTAL: 18 of 22, only 5 of which were on ESPN2 and another 7 on ESPNU.

There is zero reason to play on a weeknight if you’re going to be relegated below ESPNU.

Throwing the four Black Friday noontime kickoffs into the total number of weeknight MACtion games is pretty clearly inflating the numbers to make the argument more dramatic, since Black Friday is part of a long weekend, and 12 noon is not "night", so they are not "weeknight" games.

The Thursday night games are a consequence of NFL Thursday Night Football ... back when MACtion could have a week with two Tuesday night games and two Thursday night games, scheduling MACtion was more straightforward, but with the NFL pushing MACtion onto Tuesday and Wednesday, a handful of Thursday games are part of the scheduling mix.

As far as the notion that ESPNU and CBSSN are dramatically far apart, one's available in 68% of cable television homes, and the other is available in 66% of cable television homes. It is not as dramatic a difference as you are trying to make out between being on ESPNU or being on CBSSN.

(08-17-2020 05:47 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-17-2020 01:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So because the CBSSN games were in Thursday and not Tues/Wed you’re going to ignore them?

You didn't say anything about Thursday night games, you said Tuesday and Wednesday night games were three games a night with only one on ESPN2, and that's not true.

Quote: TOTAL: 18 of 22, only 5 of which were on ESPN2 and another 7 on ESPNU.

There is zero reason to play on a weeknight if you’re going to be relegated below ESPNU.

Throwing the four Black Friday noontime kickoffs into the total number of weeknight MACtion games is pretty clearly inflating the numbers to make the argument more dramatic, since Black Friday is part of a long weekend, and 12 noon is not "night", so they are not "weeknight" games.

The Thursday night games are a consequence of NFL Thursday Night Football ... back when MACtion could have a week with two Tuesday night games and two Thursday night games, scheduling MACtion was more straightforward, but with the NFL pushing MACtion onto Tuesday and Wednesday, a handful of Thursday games are part of the scheduling mix.

As far as the notion that ESPNU and CBSSN are dramatically far apart, one's available in 68% of cable television homes, and the other is available in 66% of cable television homes. It is not as dramatic a difference as you are trying to make out between being on ESPNU or being on CBSSN.

If you go into a bar with 30+ TVs, chances are none of them are showing either ESPNU or CBSSN. And the ratings for both suck, no matter who is playing.

(08-20-2020 10:53 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  If you go into a bar with 30+ TVs, chances are none of them are showing either ESPNU or CBSSN. And the ratings for both suck, no matter who is playing.

Exactly. And you go into a bar with a handful of TV's without any of them showing MACtion, you might get a positive response to a request to change one of them to ESPN2.

Either ESPNU or CBSSN are, "at least it's not just streaming picks", and that's it. A pair of games, one on ESPN2, the other on ESPNU, or one on ESPN2, the other on CBSSN, either is similar.

That's why "three games, on ESPN2, ESPNU and CBSSN" is step down from what the MAC actually has ... it puts up two games, one of the two gets on ESPN2. If it wants to be on ESPN2, which it does, it has to put up two games.

If the MAC HAD agreed to put up three to get one on ESPN2, that WOULD HAVE BEEN a worse deal than should be available, but they didn't.

If the MAC wants to ensure some level of accessibility to the one that doesn't get picked, either ESPNU or CBSSN are roughly similar for the game that doesn't win the prize. Both of them are available in a fairly large number of homes, even if neither of them actually get turned on in any large percentage of those homes.