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CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 03:26 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 02:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  It's a tough situation, but given the economic situation right now, I think the waiver should apply to everyone.

I have no issue with CMU doing this. Are they knowingly breaking the rules? Yes. Are the rules reasonable under the current economic climate resulting from a mixture of global politics and government mandated shutdowns? No.

If it was simply a matter of CMU making poor financial decisions that led them to this point then I would see it differently.

But is CMU talking about dropping below the Division I standards for 2020-21, or permanently? Dropping a sport is usually a permanent decision.

It seems like they plan on bringing in another men's sport, probably one that comes with less cost but would prefer to do it after this season as all NCAA programs will likely be seeing major revenue losses this year at least. That's just reading the tea leaves.
05-20-2020 03:42 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #42
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 03:22 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 11:19 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 11:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 11:04 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  They've been in the Top 25 and have just put in a new FB facility. Long tradition of competitiveness in MAC FB.

This is like saying Troy should drop down.

Last year, CMU had an athletic budget of $27 million, of which $20 million was a subsidy. That means they only generated about $7m from athletic operations. That is beyond pathetic, nowhere near what should be FBS standards.

Their attendance is bad. At a 2018 game they announced 10,000 official attendance and a reporter counted 255 people in one half of the stands. It's an embarrassing excuse for FBS program.

Numbers are far from empirical. You are basing all off data from a source or two.

Those budget numbers are gross expenditure factoring in the cash value of scholarships.

Remember, the cash value of scholarships might add up to about $4 million and that's if we adopt the absurd notion that there is zero marginal cost to giving room, board, and tuition to 85 people. That's a far cry from the $20m subsidy amount.

Face it - all of the Michigan directionals are joke FBS programs.

Central Michigan athletic student aid was $6.4 million in 2019.

Operating expenses are $4.3 million. Coaching salaries $4.9 million. Recruiting about 600k. The actual cost of running CMU athletics is about $10 million.

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

I don't trust Equity in Athletics, because they are allowed to cook the books to make them look balanced. But even going by that, the data says CMU spent $34 million on athletics. $10 million are what you call the actual cost. Now let's assume that the scholarships really are $6.4 million. That adds up to $16.4 million.

So you've just magically wished away $17m in expenses?

Sorry, looks like CMU athletics is a massive money suck.
05-20-2020 03:44 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #43
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 03:28 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:21 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Remember, the cash value of scholarships might add up to about $4 million and that's if we adopt the absurd notion that there is zero marginal cost to giving room, board, and tuition to 85 people. That's a far cry from the $20m subsidy amount.

Face it - all of the Michigan directionals are joke FBS programs.

One of them is 3 years removed from playing in the Cotton Bowl.

And still can't put 20,000 people in the stands for games.

Not consistently but they have strong showings in big games.

CMU-WMU is normally a sellout.

Big showings when playing in Detroit including part of the some of the best crowds in the history of that bowl game.
05-20-2020 03:45 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #44
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 03:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:22 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 11:19 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 11:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Last year, CMU had an athletic budget of $27 million, of which $20 million was a subsidy. That means they only generated about $7m from athletic operations. That is beyond pathetic, nowhere near what should be FBS standards.

Their attendance is bad. At a 2018 game they announced 10,000 official attendance and a reporter counted 255 people in one half of the stands. It's an embarrassing excuse for FBS program.

Numbers are far from empirical. You are basing all off data from a source or two.

Those budget numbers are gross expenditure factoring in the cash value of scholarships.

Remember, the cash value of scholarships might add up to about $4 million and that's if we adopt the absurd notion that there is zero marginal cost to giving room, board, and tuition to 85 people. That's a far cry from the $20m subsidy amount.

Face it - all of the Michigan directionals are joke FBS programs.

Central Michigan athletic student aid was $6.4 million in 2019.

Operating expenses are $4.3 million. Coaching salaries $4.9 million. Recruiting about 600k. The actual cost of running CMU athletics is about $10 million.

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

I don't trust Equity in Athletics, because they are allowed to cook the books to make them look balanced. But even going by that, the data says CMU spent $34 million on athletics. $10 million are what you call the actual cost. Now let's assume that the scholarships really are $6.4 million. That adds up to $16.4 million.

So you've just magically wished away $17m in expenses?

Sorry, looks like CMU athletics is a massive money suck.

So you would rather trust a USA Today database or old newspaper article for numbers?

The fact is the MAC has always run a tight expense model while still trying to be competitive with other G5. Hardly what I would call a waste of money.
05-20-2020 03:48 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #45
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 11:54 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 11:49 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If CMU is going below the mandate, and unlike Chicago State, they do so knowing the consequences, then it means:
a) They have it on strong authority that the NCAA is going to slacken on sport minimums,
b) They have it on weak authority and they're hoping it works out,
c) They have another men's sport in mind that they can shove in there but they want to see if they can get away with one too few men's sports first,
d) They're not only willing but maybe even planning to drop to D2 but need to go through the rigamarole of asking for a waiver so they have additional cover when they announce a dropdown.

I think something between B and C is the correct option. The AD has said he's aware they're below the minimum, and is asking for a petition, but they have a backup plan in mind.

I'm thinking C. With either men's soccer (the MAC could use another member as it's only at six, the bare minimum for an auto bid) or men's volleyball (MIVA, playing alongside Ball State, Loyola and Ohio State amongst others). They'll have to add another men's sport.
05-20-2020 03:51 PM
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Post: #46
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 03:26 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:21 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Remember, the cash value of scholarships might add up to about $4 million and that's if we adopt the absurd notion that there is zero marginal cost to giving room, board, and tuition to 85 people. That's a far cry from the $20m subsidy amount.

Face it - all of the Michigan directionals are joke FBS programs.

One of them is 3 years removed from playing in the Cotton Bowl.

And brought 40k fans to the MAC title game too. No joke at all.

45,615 total at that game...



05-20-2020 03:56 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #47
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 03:48 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:22 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 11:19 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Numbers are far from empirical. You are basing all off data from a source or two.

Those budget numbers are gross expenditure factoring in the cash value of scholarships.

Remember, the cash value of scholarships might add up to about $4 million and that's if we adopt the absurd notion that there is zero marginal cost to giving room, board, and tuition to 85 people. That's a far cry from the $20m subsidy amount.

Face it - all of the Michigan directionals are joke FBS programs.

Central Michigan athletic student aid was $6.4 million in 2019.

Operating expenses are $4.3 million. Coaching salaries $4.9 million. Recruiting about 600k. The actual cost of running CMU athletics is about $10 million.

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

I don't trust Equity in Athletics, because they are allowed to cook the books to make them look balanced. But even going by that, the data says CMU spent $34 million on athletics. $10 million are what you call the actual cost. Now let's assume that the scholarships really are $6.4 million. That adds up to $16.4 million.

So you've just magically wished away $17m in expenses?

Sorry, looks like CMU athletics is a massive money suck.

So you would rather trust a USA Today database or old newspaper article for numbers?

The fact is the MAC has always run a tight expense model while still trying to be competitive with other G5. Hardly what I would call a waste of money.

Absolutely, because of the nature of the reporting. It's obvious that the accounting principles behind the EIA submissions allow schools to craft the numbers to balance out.

Defenders of enormously money-losing G5 programs like to talk about the scholarships chargebacks. But we can see that these are nothing close to making up for the subsidy amounts. And that's giving every benefit of the doubt, meaning assuming that this entire $6.4 million in student support is nothing but an accounting gimmick, which is surely not the case.

The fact is, using the EIA numbers, The combination of what you call the "real" operating costs and the alleged scholarship chargeback is just $16.4m, when the same data says they spent $34m on athletics.

That's an $17m expenses gap right there.

How on earth is it "tight expense" for CMU to spend $32 million on a football complex when it generates about $700,000 in ticket sales for all sports? They just do not belong at FBS level. None of them do. CMU pays its head football coach about the amount that it gets from football ticket sales and their MAC media deal, combined.

BTW, CMU's enrollment declined by 10% from 2018 to 2019. That's not much of a front-porch effect. Grand Valley State has better enrollment, and spends way less as a D2 program.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2020 04:05 PM by quo vadis.)
05-20-2020 03:59 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #48
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 03:45 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  CMU-WMU is normally a sellout.

The data says otherwise.

The CMU stadium capacity is listed at 30,255. Even if the average ticket price was only $20/ticket, that would mean ticket sales of more than $600,000 just for that one football game. We know they didn't make that much money on one football game because their total ticket sales, total amount for all sporting events at the entire university, has been well below $800,000 a year for each of the last several years.

The 2019 game at WMU had reported attendance, which is always inflated, of 20,476 in a stadium that seats 30,200. The 2018 game at CMU had reported attendance of 10,097 in a stadium that seats 30,255.
05-20-2020 04:08 PM
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Post: #49
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
CMU-WMU Weekend is CMU’s biggest advertiser. There are UM and MSU students who use that weekend to visit friends at the host school.

CMU is in the middle of nowhere. When I went there for NIU/CMU on Black Friday in 2017, there was about 20 miles in between gas stations at one point. GPS signal was shaky.

Without CMU-WMU Weekend and consequently FBS football, CMU’s enrollment would drop even further. CMU’s problem is its location and it needs FBS to fight it. Same with NIU.
05-20-2020 04:09 PM
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Post: #50
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 04:09 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  CMU-WMU Weekend is CMU’s biggest advertiser. There are UM and MSU students who use that weekend to visit friends at the host school.

CMU is in the middle of nowhere. When I went there for NIU/CMU on Black Friday in 2017, there was about 20 miles in between gas stations at one point. GPS signal was shaky.

Without CMU-WMU Weekend and consequently FBS football, CMU’s enrollment would drop even further. CMU’s problem is its location and it needs FBS to fight it. Same with NIU.

Enrollment keeps dropping at CMU. Are you sure Chippewas football is really that big of an attraction?
05-20-2020 04:21 PM
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Ohio Poly Offline
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Post: #51
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
all I can say is the mac is gonna kick ass in naia
05-20-2020 04:46 PM
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Post: #52
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
In regards to the WMU Cotton Bowl season posts: There is a market for good MAC football teams. Usually that's considered 9 wins but we've seen there's an even bigger market for 10+ wins. Hence, why teams stay FBS.

People aren't gonna line up for 1-11 Akron: They will for a 9-3 Akron.

It's all about winning, and that's especially true in the MAC.

(05-20-2020 04:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:45 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  CMU-WMU is normally a sellout.

The data says otherwise.

The CMU stadium capacity is listed at 30,255. Even if the average ticket price was only $20/ticket, that would mean ticket sales of more than $600,000 just for that one football game. We know they didn't make that much money on one football game because their total ticket sales, total amount for all sporting events at the entire university, has been well below $800,000 a year for each of the last several years.

The 2019 game at WMU had reported attendance, which is always inflated, of 20,476 in a stadium that seats 30,200. The 2018 game at CMU had reported attendance of 10,097 in a stadium that seats 30,255.
I was at the 2019 & 2018 games. The 2019 attendance seemed about right, maybe even a little under-counted. The 2018 in-person attendance was definitely lower than 10K, but I suspect many no-shows during the pouring rain/snow/sleet (MAC attendance is heavily correlated w/ weather) & a home team that would end up 1-11. Also, one poster was saying the game's an excuse for UM/MSU fans to visit their WMU/CMU friends: the 2018 WMU/CMU game was the exact same time as the MSU/UM game. We're still trying to figure out why the MAC scheduled it when they did, but otherwise that's usually a factor too.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2020 05:01 PM by Bronco'14.)
05-20-2020 04:54 PM
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Post: #53
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 04:09 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  CMU-WMU Weekend is CMU’s biggest advertiser. There are UM and MSU students who use that weekend to visit friends at the host school.

CMU is in the middle of nowhere. When I went there for NIU/CMU on Black Friday in 2017, there was about 20 miles in between gas stations at one point. GPS signal was shaky.

Without CMU-WMU Weekend and consequently FBS football, CMU’s enrollment would drop even further. CMU’s problem is its location and it needs FBS to fight it. Same with NIU.

Yeah you need to have football at a place like Mt. Pleasant.

MAC has the lowest attendance on average of FBS leagues but fans come out for big games or when having a big year.

Fans also over deliver at Ford Field and Quicken Loans arena for games to watch their teams at pro venues. A lot of fans get bored with treking to the college towns.

Some of the markets in the MAC could support P5 crowds if they had that level of competition week in and out. WMU (Kalamazoo) and Toledo come to mind as good market size for P5 and they've put 37,000 fans in stadium before. Akron did it as well at one point back in the Rubber Bowl days.

At one point the MAC had to do what ever ESPN said with the midweek games but now ESPN is realizing its better business to protect the rivalry games. WMU and CMU decided to move their rivalry game to Ford Field for 2020 and play it on Oct 17th.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/colle...879444002/
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2020 05:01 PM by Kit-Cat.)
05-20-2020 04:59 PM
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Post: #54
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
No MAC school "makes more" from the ESPN TV deal. Schools are responsible for producing a huge amount of the content. Watch/listen to all those basketball, volleyball and other sports on ESPN+. They're local video and commentary. The contract is how the school pays for that. ESPN just contributes the platform, website info, etc.

As for CMU, they likely have a backup plan (read "cheaper sport") to sub in. Imo, an NCAA waiver is playing with the rules, using the Covid-19 crisis as the cover (see any politicians' move for more fed bailout money). Fact is, probably, that the impacts of the coronavirus are long-lasting; who says when it's "over" and get back in compliance? What's the definition of "over"? These waivers have a tendency to become much longer term, and if CMU can claim Covid-19 hardship, how many others can?
05-20-2020 05:00 PM
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HatterFan Offline
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Post: #55
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
while I empathize with CMU's financial situation, and of course times are tough all over and getting tougher, I have to come down against the NCAA granting them a waiver. The AD had half a dozen or more different options to reduce costs that would not have put them out of compliance with the 6 men's sport rule but chose to do this anyway.

I remember when Tulane and UNO got waivers like this after Hurricane Katrina, but that affected them and really only them. Our new reality affects everybody - if the NCAA sets a precedent by letting CMU do this, even temporarily, they've opened the door to who knows how many schools doing the same thing, and how does that serve the S-As?
05-20-2020 05:14 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #56
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 05:14 PM)HatterFan Wrote:  while I empathize with CMU's financial situation, and of course times are tough all over and getting tougher, I have to come down against the NCAA granting them a waiver. The AD had half a dozen or more different options to reduce costs that would not have put them out of compliance with the 6 men's sport rule but chose to do this anyway.

I remember when Tulane and UNO got waivers like this after Hurricane Katrina, but that affected them and really only them. Our new reality affects everybody - if the NCAA sets a precedent by letting CMU do this, even temporarily, they've opened the door to who knows how many schools doing the same thing, and how does that serve the S-As?

Exactly. If CMU gets a waiver, it will be tantamount to the NCAA granting the waiver that the G5 schools requested en masse and which the NCAA rejected. There will be a rush to cut other sports, mostly men's, to protect the Sacred Cow of football.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2020 05:21 PM by quo vadis.)
05-20-2020 05:20 PM
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Post: #57
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 04:54 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  In regards to the WMU Cotton Bowl season posts: There is a market for good MAC football teams. Usually that's considered 9 wins but we've seen there's an even bigger market for 10+ wins. Hence, why teams stay FBS.

People aren't gonna line up for 1-11 Akron: They will for a 9-3 Akron.

It's all about winning, and that's especially true in the MAC.

(05-20-2020 04:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:45 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  CMU-WMU is normally a sellout.

The data says otherwise.

The CMU stadium capacity is listed at 30,255. Even if the average ticket price was only $20/ticket, that would mean ticket sales of more than $600,000 just for that one football game. We know they didn't make that much money on one football game because their total ticket sales, total amount for all sporting events at the entire university, has been well below $800,000 a year for each of the last several years.

The 2019 game at WMU had reported attendance, which is always inflated, of 20,476 in a stadium that seats 30,200. The 2018 game at CMU had reported attendance of 10,097 in a stadium that seats 30,255.
I was at the 2019 & 2018 games. The 2019 attendance seemed about right, maybe even a little under-counted. The 2018 in-person attendance was definitely lower than 10K, but I suspect many no-shows during the pouring rain/snow/sleet (MAC attendance is heavily correlated w/ weather) & a home team that would end up 1-11. Also, one poster was saying the game's an excuse for UM/MSU fans to visit their WMU/CMU friends: the 2018 WMU/CMU game was the exact same time as the MSU/UM game. We're still trying to figure out why the MAC scheduled it when they did, but otherwise that's usually a factor too.

Ohio had its night games early in the season taken away by ESPN+ and had to play its rivalry game against Miami U. on Black Friday. This has hurt the conference efforts to build fan support.

Inevitably the crowds will not come for a bad team. Donors won't show up to make a statement the coach has to go.

The realistic upside on crowds for the MAC is to have a really good team that can pack it in at Detroit or Cleveland. SRO capacity atmospheres in a 25,000 to 30,000 seat stadium for a big game.

20,000 is a solid crowd in a MAC stadium. Its a solid crowd for any sport but P5 and NFL football.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2020 05:30 PM by Kit-Cat.)
05-20-2020 05:29 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #58
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 05:29 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 04:54 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  In regards to the WMU Cotton Bowl season posts: There is a market for good MAC football teams. Usually that's considered 9 wins but we've seen there's an even bigger market for 10+ wins. Hence, why teams stay FBS.

People aren't gonna line up for 1-11 Akron: They will for a 9-3 Akron.

It's all about winning, and that's especially true in the MAC.

(05-20-2020 04:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:45 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  CMU-WMU is normally a sellout.

The data says otherwise.

The CMU stadium capacity is listed at 30,255. Even if the average ticket price was only $20/ticket, that would mean ticket sales of more than $600,000 just for that one football game. We know they didn't make that much money on one football game because their total ticket sales, total amount for all sporting events at the entire university, has been well below $800,000 a year for each of the last several years.

The 2019 game at WMU had reported attendance, which is always inflated, of 20,476 in a stadium that seats 30,200. The 2018 game at CMU had reported attendance of 10,097 in a stadium that seats 30,255.
I was at the 2019 & 2018 games. The 2019 attendance seemed about right, maybe even a little under-counted. The 2018 in-person attendance was definitely lower than 10K, but I suspect many no-shows during the pouring rain/snow/sleet (MAC attendance is heavily correlated w/ weather) & a home team that would end up 1-11. Also, one poster was saying the game's an excuse for UM/MSU fans to visit their WMU/CMU friends: the 2018 WMU/CMU game was the exact same time as the MSU/UM game. We're still trying to figure out why the MAC scheduled it when they did, but otherwise that's usually a factor too.

Ohio had its night games early in the season taken away by ESPN+ and had to play its rivalry game against Miami U. on Black Friday. This has hurt the conference efforts to build fan support.

Inevitably the crowds will not come for a bad team. Donors won't show up to make a statement the coach has to go.

The realistic upside on crowds for the MAC is to have a really good team that can pack it in at Detroit or Cleveland. SRO capacity atmospheres in a 25,000 to 30,000 seat stadium for a big game.

20,000 is a solid crowd in a MAC stadium. Its a solid crowd for any sport but P5 and NFL football.

The problem is, not everybody can be a winner. The conference games, the bulk of the schedule, have to sum to .500. As for OOC, with MAC teams playing body-bag games for cash against P5 teams, most of those will be losses. And no donor will be fooled by a 8-4 record achieved by beating two FCS teams.

I mean look at last year's champ, Miami of Ohio: They played Iowa and Ohio State and lost both games by a combined 95 points. They lost to Ohio State 76-5. How do you lose 76-5? They also lost to Cincy by 22 points. They did manage to beat FCS Tennessee Tech. Whooppeee!

The rest was just a bunch of MAC games, until the desultory bowl game defeat against the Sun Belt runner-up.

And that's the Champ! That's just not good football, FBS football.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2020 05:50 PM by quo vadis.)
05-20-2020 05:42 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #59
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 05:20 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 05:14 PM)HatterFan Wrote:  while I empathize with CMU's financial situation, and of course times are tough all over and getting tougher, I have to come down against the NCAA granting them a waiver. The AD had half a dozen or more different options to reduce costs that would not have put them out of compliance with the 6 men's sport rule but chose to do this anyway.

I remember when Tulane and UNO got waivers like this after Hurricane Katrina, but that affected them and really only them. Our new reality affects everybody - if the NCAA sets a precedent by letting CMU do this, even temporarily, they've opened the door to who knows how many schools doing the same thing, and how does that serve the S-As?

Exactly. If CMU gets a waiver, it will be tantamount to the NCAA granting the waiver that the G5 schools requested en masse and which the NCAA rejected. There will be a rush to cut other sports, mostly men's, to protect the Sacred Cow of football.

At some point, however, there won't be anything left to cut on the men's side. Women's sports will have to be cut too.
05-20-2020 05:50 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #60
RE: CMU Drops Under D1 FBS Mandated Sport Sponsorship Levels
(05-20-2020 05:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 05:29 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 04:54 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  In regards to the WMU Cotton Bowl season posts: There is a market for good MAC football teams. Usually that's considered 9 wins but we've seen there's an even bigger market for 10+ wins. Hence, why teams stay FBS.

People aren't gonna line up for 1-11 Akron: They will for a 9-3 Akron.

It's all about winning, and that's especially true in the MAC.

(05-20-2020 04:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:45 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  CMU-WMU is normally a sellout.

The data says otherwise.

The CMU stadium capacity is listed at 30,255. Even if the average ticket price was only $20/ticket, that would mean ticket sales of more than $600,000 just for that one football game. We know they didn't make that much money on one football game because their total ticket sales, total amount for all sporting events at the entire university, has been well below $800,000 a year for each of the last several years.

The 2019 game at WMU had reported attendance, which is always inflated, of 20,476 in a stadium that seats 30,200. The 2018 game at CMU had reported attendance of 10,097 in a stadium that seats 30,255.
I was at the 2019 & 2018 games. The 2019 attendance seemed about right, maybe even a little under-counted. The 2018 in-person attendance was definitely lower than 10K, but I suspect many no-shows during the pouring rain/snow/sleet (MAC attendance is heavily correlated w/ weather) & a home team that would end up 1-11. Also, one poster was saying the game's an excuse for UM/MSU fans to visit their WMU/CMU friends: the 2018 WMU/CMU game was the exact same time as the MSU/UM game. We're still trying to figure out why the MAC scheduled it when they did, but otherwise that's usually a factor too.

Ohio had its night games early in the season taken away by ESPN+ and had to play its rivalry game against Miami U. on Black Friday. This has hurt the conference efforts to build fan support.

Inevitably the crowds will not come for a bad team. Donors won't show up to make a statement the coach has to go.

The realistic upside on crowds for the MAC is to have a really good team that can pack it in at Detroit or Cleveland. SRO capacity atmospheres in a 25,000 to 30,000 seat stadium for a big game.

20,000 is a solid crowd in a MAC stadium. Its a solid crowd for any sport but P5 and NFL football.

The problem is, not everybody can be a winner. The conference games, the bulk of the schedule, have to sum to .500. As for OOC, with MAC teams playing body-bag games for cash against P5 teams, most of those will be losses. And no donor will be fooled by a 8-4 record achieved by beating two FCS teams.

MAC teams don't play multiple FCS teams at home. I think its happened out of necessity a couple of times but that is about it.
05-20-2020 05:51 PM
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