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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 10:17 AM)gdunn Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 10:15 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 08:34 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This country needs a serious infrastructure initiative. Could also be a huge jump start to the economy.

I thought the last administration did that. Shovel ready jobs and all.

Basically there were jobs already ongoing, so he put his name on it.

Yea, I saw a handful of those shiny new signs announcing that.

And a bunch of guys leaning on shovels.
05-20-2020 03:03 PM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 02:55 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 09:59 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Been listening to the Dems/media blame Snyder for the handling of the Flint crisis for years now. (I think that's the #1 reason we have Gretchen in office now) Of course, now they're saying Gretchen's completely innocent of this. I'm not blaming her one way or the other, I'm just saying when the governor in power has an R or a D next to their name greatly changes the narrative & how you're supposed to view a crisis. Therefore I think it's only fair the GOP attack her for this. GOP needs to stop sitting on their hands & stop being the party of trying to be 'we're the nice guys' & get on the offensive for once outside President Trump.

I don't buy the 'don't politicze it' crap b/c it'd be a different story if the governor in power had an R next to their name, & I personally am sick of that.

If a Dems in office - don't politicize it.
If a Republican's in office - burn him.

Haven't read any further yet.

How long do I have to go before the first "It's Drumpf's fault" post?

If the left didn't have double standards they'd have no standards at all.
Now i'm wondering if the GOP needs to go after the company that owned the dam. Would be a tough move, because it sounds to me like there's more to the story than the liberal spin 'they were just a bunch of greedy capitalists', but this could be a bi-partisan move.
05-20-2020 03:08 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 10:56 AM)fsquid Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 09:51 AM)Oman Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 08:34 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This country needs a serious infrastructure initiative. Could also be a huge jump start to the economy.

yep, and all the recent administrations have talked about it. i would expect something to come to fruition in the first part of next year, we would of course have to borrow another few Trillion to pay for it, just adding to the long term fiscal issues.

I really thought Trump might get it done as it seemed like the only issue of his that democrats would jump on board.

No way they'd give him a perceived W like that, too busy running sham investigations and pointless impeeeshmints.

Maybe in his second term.
05-20-2020 03:22 PM
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BearcatMan Online
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Post: #44
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 03:08 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 02:55 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 09:59 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Been listening to the Dems/media blame Snyder for the handling of the Flint crisis for years now. (I think that's the #1 reason we have Gretchen in office now) Of course, now they're saying Gretchen's completely innocent of this. I'm not blaming her one way or the other, I'm just saying when the governor in power has an R or a D next to their name greatly changes the narrative & how you're supposed to view a crisis. Therefore I think it's only fair the GOP attack her for this. GOP needs to stop sitting on their hands & stop being the party of trying to be 'we're the nice guys' & get on the offensive for once outside President Trump.

I don't buy the 'don't politicze it' crap b/c it'd be a different story if the governor in power had an R next to their name, & I personally am sick of that.

If a Dems in office - don't politicize it.
If a Republican's in office - burn him.

Haven't read any further yet.

How long do I have to go before the first "It's Drumpf's fault" post?

If the left didn't have double standards they'd have no standards at all.
Now i'm wondering if the GOP needs to go after the company that owned the dam. Would be a tough move, because it sounds to me like there's more to the story than the liberal spin 'they were just a bunch of greedy capitalists', but this could be a bi-partisan move.

Yeah, it is a really funky story...and a lot of people are going to get affected. They're going to get sued to Jupiter and back.
05-20-2020 03:35 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 12:30 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 11:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 10:08 AM)gdunn Wrote:  The problem is that the infrastructure in this country is so outdated and on the brink, it can't all be fixed.

While the federal government should pony up the dough, so should the states.

The other caveat to this is, normal people don't want to be inconvenienced if they have to re-route due to work being done. And if the work is done in Union country, it'll be astronomical.

That's the inherent danger of 4 year terms. It always seems that satisfying the cronies who got you elected takes precedence over the needs of the people and besides in 4 years or so it becomes some other guy or gal's problem.

This mindset is killing us everywhere, not just Michigan. We raise gas taxes all the time down south promising to fix the roads, but I swear to you the same stretch of I85 gets repaired every year while bridges in rural counties go until they fail and pot holes on county highways remain unfilled. It's disgusting.

When I was a kid almost all of government was about repair, maintenance, and preparation for infrastructure to augment business and maintain public safety. Once state offices were supported by outside lobby for purposes of use of natural resources priorities changed. It's the same with the nation.

Government can't listen to the whims of major corporations and government employees from the Federal to County level need to get out of their offices and eyeball the things they are responsible for maintaining.

Sadly in the last 50 years I've seen non indication of that. Since the late 60's things have been systemically heading downhill.

By the way Michigan has my prayers. It's a state where most don't realize just how nice the people are outside of the major cities.
JRsec, I truly appreciate this post. The Great lakes region, better known as the "rust belt" region for some reason, is some of the most beautiful parts of the country. Some of these knucklehead politicians are not a representation of who we truly are.

It's so tiresome on this site to constantly hear how disgusting these states up here are. Just not true and Upper Peninsula Michigan, in my opinion, is the most beautiful part of the entire country. Believe it or not there are still a lot of hard working conservatives in Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, Ohio etc... and not that it really matters!

Preconceived notions are ridiculous and instead of looking down on the rust belt, thank you Mondale, I look at cities like Youngstown, Ohio and the part they played in making the USA as successful as possible in WWII.

So folks in South Carolina, Texas and wherever else can keep looking down on us up here, we're good with that! I have a lot of respect for people of all parts of this country.



Hopefully you do know that most of that is directed at individual posters and Pols, right?

We're told repeatedly that anyone who lives down Souf is an uneducated hayseed hick, humpin' his sister or first cousin and playing the banjo on the front porch.

Soooooo, rust belt it is, replete with the homely, fat, pasty womyns. All of them with the angry face from being beaten by their union thug hubby after he blows the weekly check, from the same mill his granpa used to work in, at Corner Bar on warm draft beer and rail shots.

Sound about right? 04-cheers

Incidentally, Dad's side of the family is from Minniesoooda. Same beautiful place, just a few miles further West.
05-20-2020 03:35 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 03:35 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 12:30 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 11:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 10:08 AM)gdunn Wrote:  The problem is that the infrastructure in this country is so outdated and on the brink, it can't all be fixed.

While the federal government should pony up the dough, so should the states.

The other caveat to this is, normal people don't want to be inconvenienced if they have to re-route due to work being done. And if the work is done in Union country, it'll be astronomical.

That's the inherent danger of 4 year terms. It always seems that satisfying the cronies who got you elected takes precedence over the needs of the people and besides in 4 years or so it becomes some other guy or gal's problem.

This mindset is killing us everywhere, not just Michigan. We raise gas taxes all the time down south promising to fix the roads, but I swear to you the same stretch of I85 gets repaired every year while bridges in rural counties go until they fail and pot holes on county highways remain unfilled. It's disgusting.

When I was a kid almost all of government was about repair, maintenance, and preparation for infrastructure to augment business and maintain public safety. Once state offices were supported by outside lobby for purposes of use of natural resources priorities changed. It's the same with the nation.

Government can't listen to the whims of major corporations and government employees from the Federal to County level need to get out of their offices and eyeball the things they are responsible for maintaining.

Sadly in the last 50 years I've seen non indication of that. Since the late 60's things have been systemically heading downhill.

By the way Michigan has my prayers. It's a state where most don't realize just how nice the people are outside of the major cities.
JRsec, I truly appreciate this post. The Great lakes region, better known as the "rust belt" region for some reason, is some of the most beautiful parts of the country. Some of these knucklehead politicians are not a representation of who we truly are.

It's so tiresome on this site to constantly hear how disgusting these states up here are. Just not true and Upper Peninsula Michigan, in my opinion, is the most beautiful part of the entire country. Believe it or not there are still a lot of hard working conservatives in Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, Ohio etc... and not that it really matters!

Preconceived notions are ridiculous and instead of looking down on the rust belt, thank you Mondale, I look at cities like Youngstown, Ohio and the part they played in making the USA as successful as possible in WWII.

So folks in South Carolina, Texas and wherever else can keep looking down on us up here, we're good with that! I have a lot of respect for people of all parts of this country.



Hopefully you do know that most of that is directed at individual posters and Pols, right?

We're told repeatedly that anyone who lives down Souf is an uneducated hayseed hick, humpin' his sister or first cousin and playing the banjo on the front porch.

Soooooo, rust belt it is, replete with the homely, fat, pasty womyns. All of them with the angry face from being beaten by their union thug hubby after he blows the weekly check, from the same mill his granpa used to work in, at Corner Bar on warm draft beer and rail shots.

Sound about right? 04-cheers

Incidentally, Dad's side of the family is from Minniesoooda. Same beautiful place, just a few miles further West.

Ha! If you are from a small town and your family refers to your cousins by numbers 1st cousin, 2nd cousin, and 3rd cousin, then you know the only reason they are keeping track of it is because it's legal to date and marry a 3rd cousin but not a 2nd.

Funny thing is I always wanted to learn how to play a Banjo until Deliverance came out. Love me some Scruggs and Flat and Roy Clark wasn't bad either! And I highly recommend Nanci Griffith on a 12 string guitar. I've watched her pick it like a banjo and it's terrific.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2020 03:47 PM by JRsec.)
05-20-2020 03:45 PM
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cubucks Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 03:35 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 12:30 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 11:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 10:08 AM)gdunn Wrote:  The problem is that the infrastructure in this country is so outdated and on the brink, it can't all be fixed.

While the federal government should pony up the dough, so should the states.

The other caveat to this is, normal people don't want to be inconvenienced if they have to re-route due to work being done. And if the work is done in Union country, it'll be astronomical.

That's the inherent danger of 4 year terms. It always seems that satisfying the cronies who got you elected takes precedence over the needs of the people and besides in 4 years or so it becomes some other guy or gal's problem.

This mindset is killing us everywhere, not just Michigan. We raise gas taxes all the time down south promising to fix the roads, but I swear to you the same stretch of I85 gets repaired every year while bridges in rural counties go until they fail and pot holes on county highways remain unfilled. It's disgusting.

When I was a kid almost all of government was about repair, maintenance, and preparation for infrastructure to augment business and maintain public safety. Once state offices were supported by outside lobby for purposes of use of natural resources priorities changed. It's the same with the nation.

Government can't listen to the whims of major corporations and government employees from the Federal to County level need to get out of their offices and eyeball the things they are responsible for maintaining.

Sadly in the last 50 years I've seen non indication of that. Since the late 60's things have been systemically heading downhill.

By the way Michigan has my prayers. It's a state where most don't realize just how nice the people are outside of the major cities.
JRsec, I truly appreciate this post. The Great lakes region, better known as the "rust belt" region for some reason, is some of the most beautiful parts of the country. Some of these knucklehead politicians are not a representation of who we truly are.

It's so tiresome on this site to constantly hear how disgusting these states up here are. Just not true and Upper Peninsula Michigan, in my opinion, is the most beautiful part of the entire country. Believe it or not there are still a lot of hard working conservatives in Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, Ohio etc... and not that it really matters!

Preconceived notions are ridiculous and instead of looking down on the rust belt, thank you Mondale, I look at cities like Youngstown, Ohio and the part they played in making the USA as successful as possible in WWII.

So folks in South Carolina, Texas and wherever else can keep looking down on us up here, we're good with that! I have a lot of respect for people of all parts of this country.



Hopefully you do know that most of that is directed at individual posters and Pols, right?

We're told repeatedly that anyone who lives down Souf is an uneducated hayseed hick, humpin' his sister or first cousin and playing the banjo on the front porch.

Soooooo, rust belt it is, replete with the homely, fat, pasty womyns. All of them with the angry face from being beaten by their union thug hubby after he blows the weekly check, from the same mill his granpa used to work in, at Corner Bar on warm draft beer and rail shots.

Sound about right? 04-cheers

Incidentally, Dad's side of the family is from Minniesoooda. Same beautiful place, just a few miles further West.
Lol, I guess that's one way of looking at it. Fair enough!
05-20-2020 03:48 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Prayers for Michigan
Friends lost everything in their house. Even their boats broke moorings and vanished somewhere downstream.

Hearing some insurance companies are gearing up to fight coverage.
05-20-2020 04:18 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 04:18 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Friends lost everything in their house. Even their boats broke moorings and vanished somewhere downstream.

Hearing some insurance companies are gearing up to fight coverage.

Insurance may not have to cover it, depending on their declarations of coverage. This is a man-made flood which was caused due to known negligence.
05-20-2020 04:26 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 04:18 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Friends lost everything in their house. Even their boats broke moorings and vanished somewhere downstream.

Hearing some insurance companies are gearing up to fight coverage.

Damn, that's awful. I'd hope the ins co's see their way to avoid the horrible PR disaster that would be. Cover the losses of customers, then go after whoever is on the hook for this happening. I'd imagine likely the power co.
05-20-2020 04:38 PM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 04:38 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 04:18 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Friends lost everything in their house. Even their boats broke moorings and vanished somewhere downstream.

Hearing some insurance companies are gearing up to fight coverage.

Damn, that's awful. I'd hope the ins co's see their way to avoid the horrible PR disaster that would be. Cover the losses of customers, then go after whoever is on the hook for this happening. I'd imagine likely the power co.

I work in the employer health insurance industry. The CARES bill (I believe it was) mandated how group plans have to pay for COVID. Maybe Gretchen could (and would) do the same for flood insurance in this city?

I get there's a lot of moving pieces, but the government's already done so much. What's one more thing they're able to do - especially n the name of a crisis.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2020 04:48 PM by Bronco'14.)
05-20-2020 04:45 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Prayers for Michigan
When I hear of stories like this I breathe a sigh of relief that I live in the desert. All that water would probably be gone in two days max with our sand and be filling up our aquifers. Did you guys know that there's ocean water under El Paso and land outside of it? Yeppers, it's still there and that's why we built desalination plants in the desert, something people in California are too stupid to do with an ocean right next door.
05-20-2020 08:05 PM
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MileHighBronco Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 04:18 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Friends lost everything in their house. Even their boats broke moorings and vanished somewhere downstream.

Hearing some insurance companies are gearing up to fight coverage.

My brother reports that even though the waters are a few feet from his house, he has 5 feet of water in his basement. Interestingly, even if you have a pump, they advise waiting until the waters recede and the ground starts to dry out before pumping it out. Why? The hydrostatic pressure in the ground could collapse the walls.

People are already acknowledging that their insurance won't cover the damages because they are caused by a flood. You need flood insurance and it is actually not that expensive. I feel for those who lost their homes and didn't have flood insurance. Lose your job due to the virus, lose your income, lose your home. A trifecta to the face. To make things worse, some of the people were still trying to recover from the flood of 2017 and got hit again.

They'll find out how true the saying is - "tough times don't last but tough people do."
05-20-2020 08:26 PM
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MileHighBronco Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 02:09 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I understand that there's a chemical plant in the way of the water if it breaches. Has anyone thought about removing any chemicals that might spill into the water before it happens. Don't say it can't be done, if there's a will there's a way. It'll be better than have all those chemicals destroying the land and livelihoods of the farmers.

Quote:As the water levels in the Tittabawassee River began to rise in Midland, Dow Inc activated its local emergency operations center and crisis management system, even before the upstream dams failed.

Working closely with the United States Environmental Protection Agency and the U.S. National Guard, Dow began to make its Midland plant stable by shutting it down.

Dow CEO Jim Fitterling said the decision was made Tuesday, May 19, to shut the site down and all its operating units. All the Michigan Operations I-Park tenants – Dow, Cabot Corp., Corteva AgriScience, DuPont, SK Saran and Trinseo – have also shut down their operations. Just the wastewater treatment facilities, and operations to safely manage chemical containment on site, remain.

“We had the experience from 1986 and that flood stage was about 34 feet. And so, we knew from 1986, what the limitations are and there have been a lot of changes and improvements made since then,” Fitterling said about the site. “And so with the projection of 38 feet, the team was planning for a worst-case scenario.”

In addition, all railcars on site were moved to the highest point, and Fitterling said from a supply chain perspective, all the loaded trailers that were needed for customer deliveries had been relocated off site and are being monitored.

According to a statement made by Dow earlier in the day Wednesday, only essential staff are on site and there have been no reported employee injuries.

“We just continue to monitor and right now, at this stage, at 35 feet on the river gauge, we’ve had a little bit of water into the site, but it isn’t bad; it’s been manageable,” he said. “We probably won’t be able to assess the total damage until the waters go back down, so in a couple of days, maybe early next week we’ll have an idea what the total damage is to the site. But, so far, so good.”

It was also previously announced that flood waters had begun to mix with a pond on site, however, Fitterling said the pond was filled with saltwater used for ground water remediation and posed no public safety concerns.

“So, it’s not a pond for waste; it’s just a water for more like fresh water combined with salt,” he said. “There is no risk to anything that is in that pond; no threat to residents or to the community; and there haven’t been any reported product releases.”

Read the rest of it here.
05-20-2020 08:55 PM
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BearcatMan Online
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Post: #55
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 04:18 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Friends lost everything in their house. Even their boats broke moorings and vanished somewhere downstream.

Hearing some insurance companies are gearing up to fight coverage.

I figured you were unaffected given where you're at up there (I'm heading to Gaylord in a few weeks for the annual Treetops trip!), but didnt think to ask of you had any connections. I had two former customers whose vacation houses are total losses, and one whose dad's house (been in the family since the 30's) is just gone.
05-20-2020 10:50 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Prayers for Michigan
Lots of our summer neighbors are full time residents down there or that is where their families still live full time. It’s like a refugee camp right now up here at our corner of the tip of the mitt.

One family we spent time with last night...retired. Paid off their mortgage this year. Their house is completely gone and they have already been told by their insurance carrier there is no coverage for this. There are going to be thousands of lawsuits spinning out of this in all directions.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2020 05:58 AM by rath v2.0.)
05-21-2020 05:53 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 04:18 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Friends lost everything in their house. Even their boats broke moorings and vanished somewhere downstream.

Hearing some insurance companies are gearing up to fight coverage.

I hate insurance companies.

During Katrina people who had Hurricane insurance couldn't get help because they didn't have flood insurance. Those with flood insurance couldn't get help because they didn't have hurricane insurance. Insurance companies wouldn't let you get both coverages.
05-21-2020 07:01 AM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 03:08 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 02:55 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 09:59 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Been listening to the Dems/media blame Snyder for the handling of the Flint crisis for years now. (I think that's the #1 reason we have Gretchen in office now) Of course, now they're saying Gretchen's completely innocent of this. I'm not blaming her one way or the other, I'm just saying when the governor in power has an R or a D next to their name greatly changes the narrative & how you're supposed to view a crisis. Therefore I think it's only fair the GOP attack her for this. GOP needs to stop sitting on their hands & stop being the party of trying to be 'we're the nice guys' & get on the offensive for once outside President Trump.

I don't buy the 'don't politicze it' crap b/c it'd be a different story if the governor in power had an R next to their name, & I personally am sick of that.

If a Dems in office - don't politicize it.
If a Republican's in office - burn him.

Haven't read any further yet.

How long do I have to go before the first "It's Drumpf's fault" post?

If the left didn't have double standards they'd have no standards at all.
Now i'm wondering if the GOP needs to go after the company that owned the dam. Would be a tough move, because it sounds to me like there's more to the story than the liberal spin 'they were just a bunch of greedy capitalists', but this could be a bi-partisan move.
New information on this. All goes back to Environmentalism & protecting mussels:

Federal regulators pulled the license then handed regulation to the state in 2018. Over the next couple years under the Gretchen admin, Michigan regulators confirmed it was in 'fair condition' then "focused on Boyce's unauthorized drawdown of winter water levels, which they said created a danger to freshwater mussels." Gretchen admin accused Boyce of illegally lowering the water levels. Boyce sued, claiming it lowered levels because of federal protocols that regulated against the threat of dam failure.

Here's a good article on it:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l...226539002/

Meanwhile, Dems have moved from accusing Snyder to blaming global warming - I mean climate change.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2020 07:41 AM by Bronco'14.)
05-21-2020 07:38 AM
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Post: #59
RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-21-2020 07:38 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 03:08 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 02:55 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 09:59 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Been listening to the Dems/media blame Snyder for the handling of the Flint crisis for years now. (I think that's the #1 reason we have Gretchen in office now) Of course, now they're saying Gretchen's completely innocent of this. I'm not blaming her one way or the other, I'm just saying when the governor in power has an R or a D next to their name greatly changes the narrative & how you're supposed to view a crisis. Therefore I think it's only fair the GOP attack her for this. GOP needs to stop sitting on their hands & stop being the party of trying to be 'we're the nice guys' & get on the offensive for once outside President Trump.

I don't buy the 'don't politicze it' crap b/c it'd be a different story if the governor in power had an R next to their name, & I personally am sick of that.

If a Dems in office - don't politicize it.
If a Republican's in office - burn him.

Haven't read any further yet.

How long do I have to go before the first "It's Drumpf's fault" post?

If the left didn't have double standards they'd have no standards at all.
Now i'm wondering if the GOP needs to go after the company that owned the dam. Would be a tough move, because it sounds to me like there's more to the story than the liberal spin 'they were just a bunch of greedy capitalists', but this could be a bi-partisan move.
New information on this. All goes back to Environmentalism & protecting mussels:

Federal regulators pulled the license then handed regulation to the state in 2018. Over the next couple years under the Gretchen admin, Michigan regulators confirmed it was in 'fair condition' then "focused on Boyce's unauthorized drawdown of winter water levels, which they said created a danger to freshwater mussels." Gretchen admin accused Boyce of illegally lowering the water levels. Boyce sued, claiming it lowered levels because of federal protocols that regulated against the threat of dam failure.

Here's a good article on it:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l...226539002/

Meanwhile, Dems have moved from accusing Snyder to blaming global warming - I mean climate change.

Ignorance is lethal. This is reason #1 people who are ignorant should never be in charge of anything, let alone our states and federal government. They'll kill us all.
05-21-2020 07:46 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Prayers for Michigan
(05-20-2020 09:59 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  GOP needs to stop sitting on their hands & stop being the party of trying to be 'we're the nice guys' & get on the offensive for once outside President Trump.

Do they ever.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, but my enemies need better enemies.
05-21-2020 07:58 AM
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