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East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #41
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
I'm totally confused as to how Title IX is still a thing with all of the gender and LGBT issues.

If a football play suddently choose to identify as a woman does his scholarship still can't as a male scholarship?
05-20-2020 07:12 AM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #42
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-20-2020 02:35 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 02:16 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(05-19-2020 02:04 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  hmmmm so UCONN is not the only one who is struggling with the Great AAC and the GREAT AAC Media deal.... The only diff between UCONN and ECU is that UCONN could jump to the Big East and go Indy in FB while ECU is straight up F****ed.... It is going to get real interesting once we learn how much these production facilities really cost and the actually cost of these ESPN+ productions along with the reneog deal with ESPN.....

Not true I budget is $15M more than it used to be we just had a AD who spent money like Congress and I don’t even mean using money on facilities etc. He hired too many people for the athletic dept and too many of his friends from NIU and gave them all a large salary and spent a ton on travel and entertainment. On top of that he killed our football program by firing a good coach and replaced with a terrible coach. We have just got to get back to being lean and mean like we were during Terry Holland’s regime.

It does help during a budget crisis if there is actually fat to cut, so you don't have to start the process by cutting into spending that contributes to program success.
We used to have a surplus until Compher showed up.
05-20-2020 08:03 AM
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #43
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-20-2020 07:12 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I'm totally confused as to how Title IX is still a thing with all of the gender and LGBT issues.

If a football play suddently choose to identify as a woman does his scholarship still can't as a male scholarship?

The scholarships are gender-coded by sport. If a sport has both men and women participants, it counts under the mens' scholarships total for Title IX. (Clicking around lately, I think I saw a mens' Swimming & Diving team for some school with both male and female named athletes. So maybe S&D is co-ed, but counts as male for Title IX? not sure.)

The big controversy will come when sizable number of Male-to-Female "transwomen" start rising through the high school ranks and start to dominate some NCAA womens' sports.
05-20-2020 08:20 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #44
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-20-2020 08:03 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 02:35 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 02:16 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(05-19-2020 02:04 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  hmmmm so UCONN is not the only one who is struggling with the Great AAC and the GREAT AAC Media deal.... The only diff between UCONN and ECU is that UCONN could jump to the Big East and go Indy in FB while ECU is straight up F****ed.... It is going to get real interesting once we learn how much these production facilities really cost and the actually cost of these ESPN+ productions along with the reneog deal with ESPN.....

Not true I budget is $15M more than it used to be we just had a AD who spent money like Congress and I don’t even mean using money on facilities etc. He hired too many people for the athletic dept and too many of his friends from NIU and gave them all a large salary and spent a ton on travel and entertainment. On top of that he killed our football program by firing a good coach and replaced with a terrible coach. We have just got to get back to being lean and mean like we were during Terry Holland’s regime.

It does help during a budget crisis if there is actually fat to cut, so you don't have to start the process by cutting into spending that contributes to program success.
We used to have a surplus until Compher showed up.

In the grand scheme of things, a $4 million dollar athletic budget deficit isn't all that big by G5 standards. And it doesn't have to closed entirely by cutting sports. The fact that ECU's 20 sports (which includes cheerleading as one of the women's sports) is one of the most in what arguably is the strongest G5 conference tells a lot about why the G5 don't have the autonomous status that P5 conferences do.
05-20-2020 09:00 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #45
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-20-2020 09:00 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 08:03 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 02:35 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 02:16 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(05-19-2020 02:04 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  hmmmm so UCONN is not the only one who is struggling with the Great AAC and the GREAT AAC Media deal.... The only diff between UCONN and ECU is that UCONN could jump to the Big East and go Indy in FB while ECU is straight up F****ed.... It is going to get real interesting once we learn how much these production facilities really cost and the actually cost of these ESPN+ productions along with the reneog deal with ESPN.....

Not true I budget is $15M more than it used to be we just had a AD who spent money like Congress and I don’t even mean using money on facilities etc. He hired too many people for the athletic dept and too many of his friends from NIU and gave them all a large salary and spent a ton on travel and entertainment. On top of that he killed our football program by firing a good coach and replaced with a terrible coach. We have just got to get back to being lean and mean like we were during Terry Holland’s regime.

It does help during a budget crisis if there is actually fat to cut, so you don't have to start the process by cutting into spending that contributes to program success.
We used to have a surplus until Compher showed up.

In the grand scheme of things, a $4 million dollar athletic budget deficit isn't all that big by G5 standards. And it doesn't have to closed entirely by cutting sports. The fact that ECU's 20 sports (which includes cheerleading as one of the women's sports) is one of the most in what arguably is the strongest G5 conference tells a lot about why the G5 don't have the autonomous status that P5 conferences do.

ECU did not have a P-5 visitor from the Carolinas or Virginias last year of for the next year. Over the last 15 years VT has visited 5 times, NC State 4, UNC 3, WVa 2, SC, Duke, WF, and UVa 1 each.

ECU had been able to leverage VT's need to show in the Tidewater Va market for a long time, but developments at ODU and within the politics inside the State of Va changed things, then ECU pulled the bonehead move with VT. South Carolina will come in 2021 and NC State again in 2022, but the reality is that ECU needs local P-5's to maintain interest and relevance. This is the scheduling side of their issues but without a bone tossed to them by South Carolina, VT, UVa, UNC, NC State, Duke, and Wake, ECU runs the risk of being frozen out and since football has become more important to the ACC that is the likely course of things.
05-20-2020 05:27 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #46
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-20-2020 08:03 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 02:35 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 02:16 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(05-19-2020 02:04 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  hmmmm so UCONN is not the only one who is struggling with the Great AAC and the GREAT AAC Media deal.... The only diff between UCONN and ECU is that UCONN could jump to the Big East and go Indy in FB while ECU is straight up F****ed.... It is going to get real interesting once we learn how much these production facilities really cost and the actually cost of these ESPN+ productions along with the reneog deal with ESPN.....

Not true I budget is $15M more than it used to be we just had a AD who spent money like Congress and I don’t even mean using money on facilities etc. He hired too many people for the athletic dept and too many of his friends from NIU and gave them all a large salary and spent a ton on travel and entertainment. On top of that he killed our football program by firing a good coach and replaced with a terrible coach. We have just got to get back to being lean and mean like we were during Terry Holland’s regime.

It does help during a budget crisis if there is actually fat to cut, so you don't have to start the process by cutting into spending that contributes to program success.
We used to have a surplus until Compher showed up.

Did you? How much money did the University pump into the football program? You have to back that out to see if there is a real profit. Looking at what you report to equity in athletics and as I recall you charge a $750 annual NCAA athletic fee in addition to the intramural fee. That's about $17 million in a direct student to program transfer. Let me know if am wrong. Carolina charges about $300 a kid, while State charges about $230 and then $90 a kid. It was these fees that got the State of Virginia in an uproar over JMU attempting to fund it's football program under "student fees". UVa by the way charges their kids about $680 a year.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2020 05:49 PM by Statefan.)
05-20-2020 05:37 PM
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Post: #47
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
Attendance at ECU got to 40k-50k level by having those P5 home matchups.

Before that it was a struggle to get 30,000 in the door.
05-20-2020 05:39 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #48
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-20-2020 05:39 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Attendance at ECU got to 40k-50k level by having those P5 home matchups.

Before that it was a struggle to get 30,000 in the door.

You also had control over your schedule so that you could play the night games your students loved. Then came TV. The only place worse than Raleigh or Greenville NC for a noon kick is the hell hole that is Columbia SC at noon.

Right now, ECU needs to concentrate on getting Vidant fixed and getting the BOT fixed. Football can't improve until those pillars are secure.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2020 05:53 PM by Statefan.)
05-20-2020 05:50 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #49
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-20-2020 05:39 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Attendance at ECU got to 40k-50k level by having those P5 home matchups.

Before that it was a struggle to get 30,000 in the door.

ECU football has arguably been the biggest disappointment in AAC athletics, even moreso than UConn football. Yes, UConn has been worse, but ECU was expected to be among the better teams in the conference, one of the standard-bearers.
05-20-2020 05:57 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #50
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
ECU just got a major thorn pulled out of it's ass a few hours ago.
05-20-2020 06:42 PM
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Post: #51
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-20-2020 06:42 PM)Statefan Wrote:  ECU just got a major thorn pulled out of it's ass a few hours ago.

How so?
05-20-2020 07:56 PM
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Post: #52
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-20-2020 05:57 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-20-2020 05:39 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Attendance at ECU got to 40k-50k level by having those P5 home matchups.

Before that it was a struggle to get 30,000 in the door.

ECU football has arguably been the biggest disappointment in AAC athletics, even moreso than UConn football. Yes, UConn has been worse, but ECU was expected to be among the better teams in the conference, one of the standard-bearers.

I am not going to disagree with that but our HUGE trend downward was when Compher came in and fired Ruff. Set up bad PR for the university, within the football team, and probably elsewhere. And the fact that Ruff was fired for Scottie Mo, a 2nd tier coach even at Duke who lead us through three straight years of 3-9 performances and encompassing some of the most embarrassing blowouts in ECU football history.
05-20-2020 07:59 PM
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RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports

05-21-2020 11:09 AM
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RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
https://247sports.com/college/east-carol...147370402/

The axe has fallen.

I still can't believe that Swimming and Diving got an axe because of their continuous good performance but I think I could see something looming for them in the future with their own facility that might have been fly in the ointment.
05-21-2020 11:16 AM
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RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-21-2020 11:16 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  https://247sports.com/college/east-carol...147370402/

The axe has fallen.

I still can't believe that Swimming and Diving got an axe because of their continuous good performance but I think I could see something looming for them in the future with their own facility that might have been fly in the ointment.

Welp..four sports got the axe. I guess they had limited choices because the hit had to be equally distributed between mens and womens sports to keep the balance for Title 9.
05-21-2020 11:30 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #56
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-21-2020 11:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 11:16 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  https://247sports.com/college/east-carol...147370402/

The axe has fallen.

I still can't believe that Swimming and Diving got an axe because of their continuous good performance but I think I could see something looming for them in the future with their own facility that might have been fly in the ointment.

Welp..four sports got the axe. I guess they had limited choices because the hit had to be equally distributed between mens and womens sports to keep the balance for Title 9.

Their Title IX balance was already out of whack, given that their enrollment is 57% female. This move eliminates more women's scholarship's (22) than men's (14.4). I believe it also gets them to the FBS minimum of 16 sports sponsored.
05-21-2020 11:54 AM
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Post: #57
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-21-2020 11:54 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 11:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 11:16 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  https://247sports.com/college/east-carol...147370402/

The axe has fallen.

I still can't believe that Swimming and Diving got an axe because of their continuous good performance but I think I could see something looming for them in the future with their own facility that might have been fly in the ointment.

Welp..four sports got the axe. I guess they had limited choices because the hit had to be equally distributed between mens and womens sports to keep the balance for Title 9.

Their Title IX balance was already out of whack, given that their enrollment is 57% female. This move eliminates more women's scholarship's (22) than men's (14.4). I believe it also gets them to the FBS minimum of 16 sports sponsored.

So Title IX is kind of misunderstood. It doesn't just protect women's sports; it's designed to protect the gender minority at a college. In the case of ECU, that's clearly men. Title IX requires you meet one of these three tests:

Quote:Provide participation opportunities for women and men that are substantially proportionate to their respective rates of enrollment of full-time undergraduate students;
Demonstrate a history and continuing practice of program expansion for the underrepresented sex;
Fully and effectively accommodate the interests and abilities of the underrepresented sex; and,

ECU is using the bold part for meeting Title IX, I would imagine.

Now what ECU may have trouble with in trying to offset football is:

Quote:Female and male student-athletes must receive athletics scholarship dollars proportional to their participation;

That's where the head count scholarship reductions may hurt them.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2020 12:12 PM by CitrusUCF.)
05-21-2020 12:10 PM
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Post: #58
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-20-2020 07:12 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I'm totally confused as to how Title IX is still a thing with all of the gender and LGBT issues.

If a football play suddently choose to identify as a woman does his scholarship still can't as a male scholarship?

I've thought the same thing.
05-21-2020 12:16 PM
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TexasTerror Online
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Post: #59
RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
Just posting the official ECU release which also includes a FAQ

https://news.ecu.edu/2020/05/21/ecu-athl...m-changes/
05-21-2020 12:23 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: East Carolina on the Clock: Will Cut One or More Sports
(05-21-2020 12:10 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 11:54 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 11:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(05-21-2020 11:16 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  https://247sports.com/college/east-carol...147370402/

The axe has fallen.

I still can't believe that Swimming and Diving got an axe because of their continuous good performance but I think I could see something looming for them in the future with their own facility that might have been fly in the ointment.

Welp..four sports got the axe. I guess they had limited choices because the hit had to be equally distributed between mens and womens sports to keep the balance for Title 9.

Their Title IX balance was already out of whack, given that their enrollment is 57% female. This move eliminates more women's scholarship's (22) than men's (14.4). I believe it also gets them to the FBS minimum of 16 sports sponsored.

So Title IX is kind of misunderstood. It doesn't just protect women's sports; it's designed to protect the gender minority at a college. In the case of ECU, that's clearly men. Title IX requires you meet one of these three tests:

Quote:Provide participation opportunities for women and men that are substantially proportionate to their respective rates of enrollment of full-time undergraduate students;
Demonstrate a history and continuing practice of program expansion for the underrepresented sex;
Fully and effectively accommodate the interests and abilities of the underrepresented sex; and,

ECU is using the bold part for meeting Title IX, I would imagine.

Now what ECU may have trouble with in trying to offset football is:

Quote:Female and male student-athletes must receive athletics scholarship dollars proportional to their participation;

That's where the head count scholarship reductions may hurt them.

Are you interpreting this to mean the sex that is underepresented in enrollment, rather than in participation? I think that's backwards, and not consistent with the third point about proportional scholarship money.

By my count, if ECU is awarding the maximum number of scholarships allowed per sport, they would now have 127 for men and 75 for women, even though women are 57% of their undergrad enrollment.

I'm guessing that ECU is prepared to argue hardship due to COVID as a defense against non-compliance with Title IX.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2020 01:07 PM by ken d.)
05-21-2020 12:55 PM
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