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Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
(05-18-2020 04:01 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:58 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:44 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:37 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:35 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  If those are "team" sports, then the "team sports" requirement is meaningless. (Which is par for the NCAA course....)

I mean they are scored as a team, but yeah... NCAA "logic"

Golf, tennis, cross country, and track are Individual sports because they award championships to an individual and the team. johnbragg is correct that Chicago State will not meet NCAA requirements by dropping baseball.

Those sports can also win team championships in conference and nationally.

So the "2 mens team sports, 2 womens team sports" requirement is redundant? I'm skeptical. I think it's much more reasonable to read "team sports" as meaning--team sports.

You're correct.

Without baseball, Chicago State has basketball, golf, cross country, tennis, and track & field as men's varsity sports. Of those, the NCAA Division I manual classifies only basketball as a team sport.

From the NCAA D-I manual (link to page for downloading PDF file of the manual):

Quote:17.02.18 Varsity Intercollegiate Sport. A varsity intercollegiate sport is a sport that has been accorded that status by the institution’s president or chancellor or committee responsible for intercollegiate athletics policy and that satisfies the following conditions: (Revised: 3/8/06)

(a) It is a sport that is administered by the department of intercollegiate athletics;

(b) It is a sport for which the eligibility of the student-athletes is reviewed and certified by a staff member designated by the institution’s president or chancellor or committee responsible for intercollegiate athletics policy; and

( c) It is a sport in which qualified participants receive the institution’s official varsity awards.

17.02.18.1 Team Sports. [#] The following are classified as team sports for purposes of this bylaw: (Revised:
4/23/03, 1/17/09 effective 8/1/09, 4/30/09 effective 8/1/11, 7/31/15)
Baseball
Basketball
Women’s Beach Volleyball
Field Hockey
Football
Ice Hockey
Lacrosse
Women’s Rowing
Women’s Rugby
Soccer
Softball
Volleyball
Water Polo

17.02.18.2 Individual Sports. [#] The following are classified as individual sports for purposes of this bylaw:
(Revised: 1/17/09 effective 8/1/09, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, 1/18/14 effective 8/1/14)
Women’s Bowling
Cross Country
Women’s Equestrian
Fencing
Golf
Gymnastics
Rifle
Skiing
Swimming and Diving
Tennis
Track and Field, Indoor and Outdoor
Women’s Triathlon
Wrestling
05-18-2020 04:14 PM
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #62
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
(05-18-2020 04:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 04:01 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:58 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:44 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:37 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  I mean they are scored as a team, but yeah... NCAA "logic"

Golf, tennis, cross country, and track are Individual sports because they award championships to an individual and the team. johnbragg is correct that Chicago State will not meet NCAA requirements by dropping baseball.

Those sports can also win team championships in conference and nationally.

So the "2 mens team sports, 2 womens team sports" requirement is redundant? I'm skeptical. I think it's much more reasonable to read "team sports" as meaning--team sports.

You're correct.

Without baseball, Chicago State has basketball, golf, cross country, tennis, and track & field as men's varsity sports. Of those, the NCAA Division I manual classifies only basketball as a team sport.

From the NCAA D-I manual (link to page for downloading PDF file of the manual):

Thanks. I couldn't find the right bylaw in the manual.
05-18-2020 04:18 PM
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AssyrianDuke Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
Thanks, Wedge. That clears up a lot of confusion on my part. Not so much on CSU's part though.
05-18-2020 04:20 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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Post: #64
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
People on the WAC board and twitter coming up with the same theories about why the chatroom disappeared and why the trolls invaded the meeting.

(05-18-2020 04:23 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 04:15 PM)joshadam84 Wrote:  Freaking idiots ruining the damn call.. which is a shame for the student athletes involved
I am surprised there weren’t more controls available to the moderator to either block additional callers or just mute everyone unless you’re presenting.

Given the emotions involved, it's not that far fetched to imagine some of the disruption was perpetuated by the scorned student athletes themselves. There wasn't any disruption on the call until the first request for chat features to be re-enabled. If anyone on the call hadn't realized they still had access to an open mic at that point, they sure did after. It seemed to me that is when things really went off the track.

My guess is Chicago St administration doesn't have a lot of experience running virtual public meetings, so probably did not set up the environment to mute all participants and disallow them to unmute themselves. Rookie mistake.

(05-18-2020 04:24 PM)joshadam84 Wrote:  Yeah, a few interrupted the conversation asking to turn back on the chat.. which like you said, had a valid point being brought up which I’m assuming the BoT haven’t really done their research on.

Once the trolls logged in.. freaking chaos. Only had a couple more agenda items to get to it as well.
05-18-2020 04:31 PM
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Post: #65
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
(05-18-2020 03:30 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  It amazes me how many people on here pay attention to Chicago St. if only they had as many fans in real life as they do on this message board

They are the canary in the coal mine. And they, surprisingly, are important to the survival of the WAC.
05-18-2020 04:42 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
(05-18-2020 03:35 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:33 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:30 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  FWIW, if my 5-minute googling is reliable, you have to sponsor two mens' team sports to be Division I. Without baseball, CSU doesn't have a second mens' team sport.

They have golf, tennis, cross country, and track as well.

If those are "team" sports, then the "team sports" requirement is meaningless. (Which is par for the NCAA course....)

Those are not considered team sports.
05-18-2020 04:43 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #67
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
did anyone record this Jerry Springer episode? Is there a link to it anywhere?
05-18-2020 04:44 PM
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Post: #68
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
(05-18-2020 03:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:47 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:44 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:37 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:35 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  If those are "team" sports, then the "team sports" requirement is meaningless. (Which is par for the NCAA course....)

I mean they are scored as a team, but yeah... NCAA "logic"

Golf, tennis, cross country, and track are Individual sports because they award championships to an individual and the team. johnbragg is correct that Chicago State will not meet NCAA requirements by dropping baseball.
NCAA doesn't have the balls to shut Chicago St down, plain and simple

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I'm guessing that when Chicago State realizes that they're out of compliance, they ask for a waiver. I don't know if they get it, without a plan to get back into compliance.

Next step would be Chicago State on "restricted membership" for a couple of years. Either Chicago State starts a men's team sport or drops out of Division I. (Or closes, or the NCAA rules change in the meantime).
No surprise the people in charge of their AD are incompetent and don't know the rules.
05-18-2020 04:45 PM
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Post: #69
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
(05-18-2020 04:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 04:01 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:58 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:44 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:37 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  I mean they are scored as a team, but yeah... NCAA "logic"

Golf, tennis, cross country, and track are Individual sports because they award championships to an individual and the team. johnbragg is correct that Chicago State will not meet NCAA requirements by dropping baseball.

Those sports can also win team championships in conference and nationally.

So the "2 mens team sports, 2 womens team sports" requirement is redundant? I'm skeptical. I think it's much more reasonable to read "team sports" as meaning--team sports.

You're correct.

Without baseball, Chicago State has basketball, golf, cross country, tennis, and track & field as men's varsity sports. Of those, the NCAA Division I manual classifies only basketball as a team sport.

From the NCAA D-I manual (link to page for downloading PDF file of the manual):

Quote:17.02.18 Varsity Intercollegiate Sport. A varsity intercollegiate sport is a sport that has been accorded that status by the institution’s president or chancellor or committee responsible for intercollegiate athletics policy and that satisfies the following conditions: (Revised: 3/8/06)

(a) It is a sport that is administered by the department of intercollegiate athletics;

(b) It is a sport for which the eligibility of the student-athletes is reviewed and certified by a staff member designated by the institution’s president or chancellor or committee responsible for intercollegiate athletics policy; and

( c) It is a sport in which qualified participants receive the institution’s official varsity awards.

17.02.18.1 Team Sports. [#] The following are classified as team sports for purposes of this bylaw: (Revised:
4/23/03, 1/17/09 effective 8/1/09, 4/30/09 effective 8/1/11, 7/31/15)
Baseball
Basketball
Women’s Beach Volleyball
Field Hockey
Football
Ice Hockey
Lacrosse
Women’s Rowing
Women’s Rugby
Soccer
Softball
Volleyball
Water Polo

17.02.18.2 Individual Sports. [#] The following are classified as individual sports for purposes of this bylaw:
(Revised: 1/17/09 effective 8/1/09, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, 1/18/14 effective 8/1/14)
Women’s Bowling
Cross Country
Women’s Equestrian
Fencing
Golf
Gymnastics
Rifle
Skiing
Swimming and Diving
Tennis
Track and Field, Indoor and Outdoor
Women’s Triathlon
Wrestling

So since everyone in Division I has basketball, a school needs either football, baseball or soccer. Only a handful play hockey, lacrosse, water polo or men's volleyball.
05-18-2020 04:48 PM
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Post: #70
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
Missed my window to start a polite conversation and end it by spamming BABA BOOEY BABA BOOEY until I get booted
05-18-2020 04:49 PM
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Post: #71
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
(05-18-2020 04:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:47 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:44 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 03:37 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  I mean they are scored as a team, but yeah... NCAA "logic"

Golf, tennis, cross country, and track are Individual sports because they award championships to an individual and the team. johnbragg is correct that Chicago State will not meet NCAA requirements by dropping baseball.
NCAA doesn't have the balls to shut Chicago St down, plain and simple

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I'm guessing that when Chicago State realizes that they're out of compliance, they ask for a waiver. I don't know if they get it, without a plan to get back into compliance.

Next step would be Chicago State on "restricted membership" for a couple of years. Either Chicago State starts a men's team sport or drops out of Division I. (Or closes, or the NCAA rules change in the meantime).
No surprise the people in charge of their AD are incompetent and don't know the rules.

Chris Zorich was competent, loaded with connections, and a household name locally.

Then he got fired after 1 year for no reason at all, and the new people they brought on board are so clueless...they don't even know what's required for D1 membership. In fact, someone pointed it out to them in the chatroom with others chiming in before the moderator disabled the chatroom, people called in pleading for the chatroom's reinstatement, and then the trolls hijacked the audio unleashing chaos.
05-18-2020 04:50 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
(05-18-2020 04:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  did anyone record this Jerry Springer episode? Is there a link to it anywhere?

Don't think it was recorded. It was hysterical. Impossible not to burst out laughing while it was unfolding.
05-18-2020 04:51 PM
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AssyrianDuke Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
(05-18-2020 04:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 04:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  did anyone record this Jerry Springer episode? Is there a link to it anywhere?

Don't think it was recorded. It was hysterical. Impossible not to burst out laughing while it was unfolding.

If it was recorded, would a FOIA request be able to unearth this instant gem?
05-18-2020 04:53 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
If the NCAA isn’t willing to kick out Chicago St, the WAC should.

That school and it’s athletic department have been a joke for far too long.

The logic that they can’t cut sports because the athletes are among the few who actually graduate is a tail wagging the dog situation.
05-18-2020 04:54 PM
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RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
Did the Associate Athletic Director for Compliance or the Director of Intercollegiate Athletics know that dropping baseball would make CSU non-compliant with the NCAA? If not, then why didn't he know? If he did know, why didn't he inform somebody; it would have prevented what happened today.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2020 05:00 PM by AZcats.)
05-18-2020 04:54 PM
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Post: #76
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
(05-18-2020 04:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the NCAA isn’t willing to kick out Chicago St, the WAC should.

That school and it’s athletic department have been a joke for far too long.

The logic that they can’t cut sports because the athletes are among the few who actually graduate is a tail wagging the dog situation.

The WAC is desperate for members. If the WCC decides to expand, Seattle is a likely target. NMSU is looking for a football home. UTRGV would go east in a minute if anyone offered.

So that leaves relatively new members Grand Canyon, California Baptist, Utah Valley and future members Tarleton St. and Dixie St. besides Chicago St.

That's only 9 schools with the 4 longest members all potentially leaving.
05-18-2020 05:01 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
(05-18-2020 04:53 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 04:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 04:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  did anyone record this Jerry Springer episode? Is there a link to it anywhere?

Don't think it was recorded. It was hysterical. Impossible not to burst out laughing while it was unfolding.

If it was recorded, would a FOIA request be able to unearth this instant gem?

I take back what I said. The meetings are recorded and get put up online. So this should get posted, but are they really going to include the final 15 minutes that was the Jerry Springer Show?
https://www.csu.edu/boardoftrustees/meet...ar2020.htm
05-18-2020 05:01 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
Btw, there's 55+ guests viewing this thread an hour+ after it finished, so everyday people must've been following here to track the meeting. Crazy!
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2020 05:04 PM by IWokeUpLikeThis.)
05-18-2020 05:03 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
(05-18-2020 05:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 04:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the NCAA isn’t willing to kick out Chicago St, the WAC should.

That school and it’s athletic department have been a joke for far too long.

The logic that they can’t cut sports because the athletes are among the few who actually graduate is a tail wagging the dog situation.

The WAC is desperate for members. If the WCC decides to expand, Seattle is a likely target. NMSU is looking for a football home. UTRGV would go east in a minute if anyone offered.

So that leaves relatively new members Grand Canyon, California Baptist, Utah Valley and future members Tarleton St. and Dixie St. besides Chicago St.

That's only 9 schools with the 4 longest members all potentially leaving.


WCC isn't looking to expand. Seattle has no where to go.
NMSU has been looking for a football home - there is none to be had. NMSU has nowhere to go
UTRGV is the Chicago State of Texas. No one wants them either - UTRGV has nowhere to go.
05-18-2020 05:14 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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RE: Chicago St BOT Meeting Agenda - Action Item: NCAA Sport Sponsorship for FY21
Is there an active college baseball forum on the internet? The ones Google is showing seem mostly dead. College hockey has a huge one in USCHO.
05-18-2020 05:18 PM
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