(05-18-2020 03:21 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-18-2020 02:31 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The magic number for the SEC to easily and cleanly remove a chunk of the ACC is 8: Louisville, Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Virginia, North Carolina, NC State.

Wake Forest and Duke are not structurally cut out to compete in football. Duke is what Wake Forest would look like if they stopped trying. Wake Forest is a poorer version of what Duke would look like if they actually tried. Duke has the money to make a go of it but if the light hasn't cut on for them at this point they're just not interested. When Coach K retires (or gets FBI probed for Adidas money) Duke is going to look a lot like Stanford: structurally endowed athletics competing in and winning Olympic sport titles and competing near the top of the Capital One Cup year in and year out ...... and terrible in all the revenue sports most of the time.

Those 8 teams bring 4 OOC rivalries in conference. It adds two more in conference in state high value rivalries. It secures all the meaningful teams in the southeast from the Potomac to the Ohio to the Mississippi River. Add in four from the Big 12 and you've got a college sports television monopoly from the Potomac to the Ohio to the Arkansas to the Rio Grande. Conveniently this represents the lion's share of the talent production areas.

14+8=22, not exactly the best number for a conference/consortium.

Let’s subtract Missouri (they belong with Midwestern schools) and then add Texas, TTU, and Miami.

That’s 24–Great for 3 divisions of 8, 4 divisions of 6, or 6 divisions of 4.

Would something like this work for you:

Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma
Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Northwestern
Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State,
Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers

Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Louisiana State, Arkansas, Miami
Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Vanderbilt, Tennessee
Louisville, Kentucky, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State
Georgia Tech, Georgia, Clemson, South Carolina, Florida, Florida State

(05-18-2020 04:52 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(05-18-2020 03:21 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-18-2020 02:31 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The magic number for the SEC to easily and cleanly remove a chunk of the ACC is 8: Louisville, Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Virginia, North Carolina, NC State.

Wake Forest and Duke are not structurally cut out to compete in football. Duke is what Wake Forest would look like if they stopped trying. Wake Forest is a poorer version of what Duke would look like if they actually tried. Duke has the money to make a go of it but if the light hasn't cut on for them at this point they're just not interested. When Coach K retires (or gets FBI probed for Adidas money) Duke is going to look a lot like Stanford: structurally endowed athletics competing in and winning Olympic sport titles and competing near the top of the Capital One Cup year in and year out ...... and terrible in all the revenue sports most of the time.

Those 8 teams bring 4 OOC rivalries in conference. It adds two more in conference in state high value rivalries. It secures all the meaningful teams in the southeast from the Potomac to the Ohio to the Mississippi River. Add in four from the Big 12 and you've got a college sports television monopoly from the Potomac to the Ohio to the Arkansas to the Rio Grande. Conveniently this represents the lion's share of the talent production areas.

14+8=22, not exactly the best number for a conference/consortium.

Let’s subtract Missouri (they belong with Midwestern schools) and then add Texas, TTU, and Miami.

That’s 24–Great for 3 divisions of 8, 4 divisions of 6, or 6 divisions of 4.

Would something like this work for you:

Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma
Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Northwestern
Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State,
Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers

Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Louisiana State, Arkansas, Miami
Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Vanderbilt, Tennessee
Louisville, Kentucky, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State
Georgia Tech, Georgia, Clemson, South Carolina, Florida, Florida State

That’s precisely the set up I came up with for the Big Ten too—the only difference is I took Iowa St instead of Colorado.

Here's another possibility that's a little more controversial: the Big Ten goes to 20 but with some key changes. ND still holds out. Colorado, Missouri, Kansas, Pittsburgh and Oklahoma still join but there's still a spot open for #20. Iowa State is the best remaining candidate. So ISU gets slot in the spot of Illinois, who shifts to the division right to the East of them. That forces a shift of Ohio State to the Eastern division, requiring a protected status placed on the Michigan game.

Over at the SEC, Missouri and Vanderbilt leave, one to the Big Ten and the other deciding it can no longer compete in the major sports. They take eight from the ACC and then gives UT an ultimatum that they can join without TT or go the independent route. UT decides that independence doesn't pan out so reluctantly joining the SEC. The SEC goes to 21 and decides to stay put at that number.

The PAC is at eleven and decides that it would not replace Colorado. Instead, the PAC and SEC go to a scheduling agreement that covers games of teams without opponents on certain weeks. That would be fine for the PAC, since they can remain as a regional western conference and still have the chance of playing big names during key weeks. Any other openings could be covered by BYU and/or Notre Dame.

Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma
Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, Northwestern
Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Illinois
Pittsburgh, Ohio State, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers

Texas, Texas A&M, Louisiana State, Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisville
Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Georgia Tech, Georgia, Clemson
Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, South Carolina, Florida, Florida State

USC, UCLA, Utah, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon State, Arizona, Arizona State, Oregon, California

That's 52 programs. Give Notre Dame and BYU P status for scheduling purposes and you're at 54.

Something like this might satisfy key constituent groups to make palatable. ND can still play an independent schedule. The odd numbers allow programs to schedule old rivals that didn't make the cut whenever there's an opening to do so.

It's definitely convoluted but something like I propose can seriously happen.

(05-19-2020 08:56 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Here's another possibility that's a little more controversial: the Big Ten goes to 20 but with some key changes. ND still holds out. Colorado, Missouri, Kansas, Pittsburgh and Oklahoma still join but there's still a spot open for #20. Iowa State is the best remaining candidate. So ISU gets slot in the spot of Illinois, who shifts to the division right to the East of them. That forces a shift of Ohio State to the Eastern division, requiring a protected status placed on the Michigan game.

Over at the SEC, Missouri and Vanderbilt leave, one to the Big Ten and the other deciding it can no longer compete in the major sports. They take eight from the ACC and then gives UT an ultimatum that they can join without TT or go the independent route. UT decides that independence doesn't pan out so reluctantly joining the SEC. The SEC goes to 21 and decides to stay put at that number.

The PAC is at eleven and decides that it would not replace Colorado. Instead, the PAC and SEC go to a scheduling agreement that covers games of teams without opponents on certain weeks. That would be fine for the PAC, since they can remain as a regional western conference and still have the chance of playing big names during key weeks. Any other openings could be covered by BYU and/or Notre Dame.

Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma
Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, Northwestern
Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Illinois
Pittsburgh, Ohio State, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers

Texas, Texas A&M, Louisiana State, Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisville
Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Georgia Tech, Georgia, Clemson
Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, South Carolina, Florida, Florida State

USC, UCLA, Utah, Stanford, Arizona, Washington State, Oregon State, Arizona, Arizona State, Oregon, California

That's 52 programs. Give Notre Dame and BYU P status for scheduling purposes and you're at 54.

Something like this might satisfy key constituent groups to make palatable. ND can still play an independent schedule. The odd numbers allow programs to schedule old rivals that didn't make the cut whenever there's an opening to do so.

It's definitely convoluted but something like can seriously happen.

You meant to put the Huskies in there but typed Arizona twice.

If both Notre Dame and B.Y.U. attached themselves to the PAC that would work out okay. But I think you will find that Oklahoma will stick with Texas and both will insist on the other state school being included.

(05-19-2020 09:30 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-19-2020 08:56 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Here's another possibility that's a little more controversial: the Big Ten goes to 20 but with some key changes. ND still holds out. Colorado, Missouri, Kansas, Pittsburgh and Oklahoma still join but there's still a spot open for #20. Iowa State is the best remaining candidate. So ISU gets slot in the spot of Illinois, who shifts to the division right to the East of them. That forces a shift of Ohio State to the Eastern division, requiring a protected status placed on the Michigan game.

Over at the SEC, Missouri and Vanderbilt leave, one to the Big Ten and the other deciding it can no longer compete in the major sports. They take eight from the ACC and then gives UT an ultimatum that they can join without TT or go the independent route. UT decides that independence doesn't pan out so reluctantly joining the SEC. The SEC goes to 21 and decides to stay put at that number.

The PAC is at eleven and decides that it would not replace Colorado. Instead, the PAC and SEC go to a scheduling agreement that covers games of teams without opponents on certain weeks. That would be fine for the PAC, since they can remain as a regional western conference and still have the chance of playing big names during key weeks. Any other openings could be covered by BYU and/or Notre Dame.

Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma
Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, Northwestern
Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Illinois
Pittsburgh, Ohio State, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers

Texas, Texas A&M, Louisiana State, Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisville
Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Georgia Tech, Georgia, Clemson
Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, South Carolina, Florida, Florida State

USC, UCLA, Utah, Stanford, Arizona, Washington State, Oregon State, Arizona, Arizona State, Oregon, California

That's 52 programs. Give Notre Dame and BYU P status for scheduling purposes and you're at 54.

Something like this might satisfy key constituent groups to make palatable. ND can still play an independent schedule. The odd numbers allow programs to schedule old rivals that didn't make the cut whenever there's an opening to do so.

It's definitely convoluted but something like can seriously happen.

You meant to put the Huskies in there but typed Arizona twice.

If both Notre Dame and B.Y.U. attached themselves to the PAC that would work out okay. But I think you will find that Oklahoma will stick with Texas and both will insist on the other state school being included.

It might depend on what the OU administrative staff think is better for the university. If they think the B1G will help them improve on the metrics and if they believe that Colorado and Mizzou would accompany them then the old Big 8 ties might push them in that direction. Reuniting with Nebraska would be the icing in that instance.

Being that the ACC has greater leverage in terms of programs that might be economically feasible in the emerging paradigm then the SEC would be compelled to act on them. To me, programs like Louisville, Georgia Tech, Clemson and Virginia Tech appear to have greater long-term upside than Oklahoma State or Texas Tech. No disrespect meant for the latter two. It's why Maryland had a better economic deal to join the Big Ten over Nebraska, who was in a middle of a decline in football power. The ability to have a presence in DC/NoVa and the relative economic wealth plus the ongoing chaos over at the Big 12 made that possible. What the ACC has over the Big 12 is eyeballs.