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SEC vote on May 22
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Merrick Offline
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Post: #21
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-18-2020 09:19 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 10:34 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 07:52 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  How long are we supposed to cower in fear of a virus with a 99.5% survival rate?

Certainly longer than we should cower in fear of being seen wearing a mask, where the wearing the mask itself has a 100% survival rate and not wearing the mask risks killing random strangers.

The 99.5% survival rate depends on not allowing the epidemic to run through the population unchecked, at which point we have millions dead rather than hundreds of thousands.

And while the claim that everyone infected will suffer serious long term damage is unfounded ... that's because we don't know, because it's a novel virus. It could be 5%, it could be 25%, it could be 75%. We don't know. Yet some Lemmings are happy to risk the lifetime health of my eight grandchildren because we do not and CAN not yet know what that risk might be.


There have been recorded cases that people with no health issues died from this virus. A healthy college QB could catch it, and in two weeks, he is in the hospital for weeks on a ventilator. The chances for this young QB will be that he would be dead. If he pulls through it? His heart, liver, lungs and kidneys would be damaged for life. Children under 12 are having an issue now. Some died while some are fighting for their lives because the virus is causing a rare dieseage that sounds like a Japanese word called Kawasee or something like that. It means anybody healthy or not can die from the virus. A doctor pointed out that it could be a gene when a whole family caught it and half of them are in the hospital. One family had like 4 died while 7 others are on the ventilators.

^^^ THIS ^^^
05-18-2020 09:47 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #22
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-18-2020 09:47 AM)Merrick Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 09:19 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 10:34 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 07:52 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  How long are we supposed to cower in fear of a virus with a 99.5% survival rate?

Certainly longer than we should cower in fear of being seen wearing a mask, where the wearing the mask itself has a 100% survival rate and not wearing the mask risks killing random strangers.

The 99.5% survival rate depends on not allowing the epidemic to run through the population unchecked, at which point we have millions dead rather than hundreds of thousands.

And while the claim that everyone infected will suffer serious long term damage is unfounded ... that's because we don't know, because it's a novel virus. It could be 5%, it could be 25%, it could be 75%. We don't know. Yet some Lemmings are happy to risk the lifetime health of my eight grandchildren because we do not and CAN not yet know what that risk might be.


There have been recorded cases that people with no health issues died from this virus. A healthy college QB could catch it, and in two weeks, he is in the hospital for weeks on a ventilator. The chances for this young QB will be that he would be dead. If he pulls through it? His heart, liver, lungs and kidneys would be damaged for life. Children under 12 are having an issue now. Some died while some are fighting for their lives because the virus is causing a rare dieseage that sounds like a Japanese word called Kawasee or something like that. It means anybody healthy or not can die from the virus. A doctor pointed out that it could be a gene when a whole family caught it and half of them are in the hospital. One family had like 4 died while 7 others are on the ventilators.

^^^ THIS ^^^

NOT THIS

The players will now have rights to images, will receive a stipend, and will be insured against injury. They will be a kind of employee and their play and acceptance of the terms will be counted as voluntary.

I would think waivers of risk will be signed.

If fans have to sign one in order to receive tickets there is no potential liability, no matter what ambulance chasing lawyer may advertise for victims.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2020 10:03 AM by JRsec.)
05-18-2020 10:02 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #23
RE: SEC vote on May 22
Would a politician of either party or somebody on this board other than me (maybe I've overlooked and apologize if so) please say the following:

The longer we keep the economy locked down, the more people will suffer — not just economically but mentally and physically (suicide, weakening immune systems and diseases spread due to depression and homelessness, lack of physical exercise, etc.).

This is one of my major complaints: Few folks who want to get the economy cranking again (and I strongly do) are noting the potential mental and physical health damage being done by not doing so. The argument seems overwhelmingly "economic" as opposed to both economic and a whole slew of non-virus related mental and physical health concerns that could worsen very soon if we don't resume some element of normalcy.

And because the politicians seemingly are too unskilled to articulate this (I will not mention names), ... it lessens the strength of their argument to reopen the economy.
05-18-2020 12:03 PM
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Claw Offline
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Post: #24
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-18-2020 01:10 AM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 10:34 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  An 89 year old is just as vulnerable to good old fashioned Flu which, even with a vaccine, averages 45-65k deaths a year. Last year was a particularly bad flu season with 80k deaths.

I’m all for the old and immune compromised continue to shelter in place.

But if you are under 60 and have no preexisting pulmonary or cardiac issue this virus is extremely low risk to you. These folks need to get back out there and build herd immunity and get the economy going again.

That includes a universal immunity against law suits from COVID. If you choose to go to a restaurant, movie or CFB game you are agreeing that you assumed the risk and the entertainment provider is not responsible, similar to how a Rangers ticket says they’re not responsible for drunk fans falling off the top deck

Valid point, except the people that won't go to restaurants, movies , sporting events, etc, no matter if it is open.

It's hard to say where people won't go.

Restaurants are pretty full here in Tennessee. They go from 50% to 100% capacity in a week.

People were lined up in Tulsa to go the casino.

I don't think you would get 30 in a movie theater though.

I'm not sure it is 100% predictable.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2020 12:53 PM by Claw.)
05-18-2020 12:51 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #25
RE: SEC vote on May 22
Since it is SEC related, here is the message which the University of South Carolina released this afternoon regarding Fall 2020. Earlier start, no Fall Break, and no face-to-face instruction after Thanksgiving.


Quote:Dear Students, Faculty and Staff,

I write to announce the Fall 2020 academic calendar as recommended on Friday, May 15 by the Future Planning Group (FPG) and with the full support of the Office of the Provost and our public health experts. Two major changes will stand out as you review the following schedule: first, there will be no Fall Break and second, we will conclude face-to-face instruction at Thanksgiving Break. The new schedule meets requirements for federal financial aid and for the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges (SACSCOC). Please note the schedule details for the Columbia campus:

Aug. 20:Classes begin

Sept. 7:Labor Day will be a Remote Class Day; classes will be held online and asynchronous for all classes

Oct. 15-16:Fall Break is cancelled; classes will be held on these days

Nov. 3:General Election Day will be a Remote Class Day; classes will be held online and asynchronous for all classes

Nov. 24:Face-to-face instruction will end

Nov. 25-29:Thanksgiving Break

Nov. 30:Remote Class Day

Dec. 1:Remote Class Day

Dec. 2-4:Reading Days

Dec. 7-14:Final Exam period

The recommendation to cancel Fall Break and essentially accelerate in-person instruction for the semester was developed with significant input from faculty, staff and student government leadership serving on the FPG. Two critical pieces of information informed these changes:

Canceling Fall Break — the public health risks associated with thousands of students and faculty returning to campus after Fall Break travels could be significant for the campus and Columbia communities and could jeopardize the continuation of the semester.

Remote learning following Thanksgiving Break — our best current modelling predicts a spike in cases of COVID-19 at the beginning of December, which also will likely coincide with traditional flu season.

While fall semester will include face-to-face instruction, it should be noted that a portion of courses already scheduled to be delivered face-to-face and for which many students are already registered will need to be switched over the summer to online for the safety of students and their instructors. All undergraduate and graduate students will have the opportunity to be re-advised. All student learning and evaluation occurring after Thanksgiving, including exams and tests, will be done remotely.

I realize that students and faculty look forward to getting away and recharging in the middle of the semester, and I appreciate that many of you will not be pleased with the decision to cancel Fall Break. These changes are part of the new normal that all of us must embrace as we return to campus for work and study, and they are necessary for us to successfully resume in-person instruction. Most importantly, they reflect our top priority: your health, safety and wellbeing.

Many questions about the fall schedule must still be answered, including December commencement, and we will update you as additional details are developed. We will also be prepared to alter our plans to accommodate changes in the public health environment on campus and in Columbia.

This virus continues to ask a great deal of us, and we must be ready to respond thoughtfully to any development or situation. I am extremely proud of the FPG and am grateful to every participant in this impressive group of leaders. These experts have given me a new level of confidence in our capacity to resume in-person classes on August 20 and to accommodate those students, faculty and staff who choose to work and study remotely.

Thank you for your continued support and for your willingness to work creatively with this new fall schedule. Working together as a team, we will make the Fall 2020 semester an excellent and safe experience for students, faculty and staff.

Forever to Thee,

Bob Caslen

https://sc.edu/safety/coronavirus/index.php#Messages
05-18-2020 07:05 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #26
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-18-2020 12:03 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Would a politician of either party or somebody on this board other than me (maybe I've overlooked and apologize if so) please say the following:

The longer we keep the economy locked down, the more people will suffer — not just economically but mentally and physically (suicide, weakening immune systems and diseases spread due to depression and homelessness, lack of physical exercise, etc.).

This is one of my major complaints: Few folks who want to get the economy cranking again (and I strongly do) are noting the potential mental and physical health damage being done by not doing so. The argument seems overwhelmingly "economic" as opposed to both economic and a whole slew of non-virus related mental and physical health concerns that could worsen very soon if we don't resume some element of normalcy.

And because the politicians seemingly are too unskilled to articulate this (I will not mention names), ... it lessens the strength of their argument to reopen the economy.

Politicians are well to do. They live around professionals and other well to do people. Love him or hate him, the reason Trump got elected is because blue collar people have been ignored by both parties for 30 years and voted for a change. This is more of the same. The middle middle and lower middle income people are getting crushed economically. But the politicians don't live around those people and don't see it.
05-18-2020 08:00 PM
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BruceMcF Online
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Post: #27
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-18-2020 12:51 PM)Claw Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 01:10 AM)sierrajip Wrote:  Valid point, except the people that won't go to restaurants, movies , sporting events, etc, no matter if it is open.

It's hard to say where people won't go.

Restaurants are pretty full here in Tennessee. They go from 50% to 100% capacity in a week.

People were lined up in Tulsa to go the casino.

I don't think you would get 30 in a movie theater though.

I'm not sure it is 100% predictable.

Yes, but the proposal is to make the rates of infection and the death rates and the rates of people in ICU spike, so it's kind of an exploration that the premature opening states are doing of what LEVEL of infection is enough for people to have enough direct contact with "ordinary people" who are infected to cut through the story being pushed in certain segments of the media downplaying the potential risk.

It seems very much like they are on course to simply discover in an experimental fashion how extensive the epidemic will get before panic sets in in their own state.

What really undermines the 24hr news cycle, dump yesterday's outrage into the memory hole (mis)information system the US is saddled with is that trying to turn coverage away from the epidemic doesn't get rid of the epidemic, because it wasn't a manufactured pseudo-crisis in the first place, so it doesn't go away if media attempts to turn its attention elsewhere.

Pundits and talking heads on the box saying "Don't worry about it, don't worry about it" only works until you hear from family about a nephew who has some kind of weird heart disease from what seemed at first to be a mild infection, "nothing to worry about".
05-18-2020 11:08 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #28
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-18-2020 09:03 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 10:34 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  An 89 year old is just as vulnerable to good old fashioned Flu which, even with a vaccine, averages 45-65k deaths a year. Last year was a particularly bad flu season with 80k deaths.

I’m all for the old and immune compromised continue to shelter in place.

But if you are under 60 and have no preexisting pulmonary or cardiac issue this virus is extremely low risk to you. These folks need to get back out there and build herd immunity and get the economy going again.

That includes a universal immunity against law suits from COVID. If you choose to go to a restaurant, movie or CFB game you are agreeing that you assumed the risk and the entertainment provider is not responsible, similar to how a Rangers ticket says they’re not responsible for drunk fans falling off the top deck

I agree with a good bit of what you say. The flu comparison is a good one.

Okay, if we're going with the flu comparison... There is no immunity from lawsuits for the flu. No business forces customers to sign a waiver from liability if their customers get the flu. So, anyone who has ever compared this coronavirus to the flu has to agree that there should be no immunity and no waivers for football games, movie theatres, or anything else.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2020 01:01 AM by Wedge.)
05-19-2020 01:00 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #29
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-19-2020 01:00 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 09:03 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 10:34 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  An 89 year old is just as vulnerable to good old fashioned Flu which, even with a vaccine, averages 45-65k deaths a year. Last year was a particularly bad flu season with 80k deaths.

I’m all for the old and immune compromised continue to shelter in place.

But if you are under 60 and have no preexisting pulmonary or cardiac issue this virus is extremely low risk to you. These folks need to get back out there and build herd immunity and get the economy going again.

That includes a universal immunity against law suits from COVID. If you choose to go to a restaurant, movie or CFB game you are agreeing that you assumed the risk and the entertainment provider is not responsible, similar to how a Rangers ticket says they’re not responsible for drunk fans falling off the top deck

I agree with a good bit of what you say. The flu comparison is a good one.

Okay, if we're going with the flu comparison... There is no immunity from lawsuits for the flu. No business forces customers to sign a waiver from liability if their customers get the flu. So, anyone who has ever compared this coronavirus to the flu has to agree that there should be no immunity and no waivers for football games, movie theatres, or anything else.
That haven't needed it because the country once had common sense and realized that anyone anywhere anytime could catch a communicable disease and actually proving you caught it at said venue is beyond a reasonable doubt.

We shouldn't need immunity, but with lawyers throwing anything against the wall to see what sticks these days, and with too many of the them for their potential cases to support them, we are living in an anything goes legal world which merely adds to the chaos and drives the need for both liability insurance and for immunity.

Obviously if you attend a theatre or a packed open venue you are assuming risk. We can't keep stupid people from putting themselves at risk, no matter how much the nanny state wants to do so.
05-19-2020 01:23 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #30
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-18-2020 08:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 12:03 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Would a politician of either party or somebody on this board other than me (maybe I've overlooked and apologize if so) please say the following:

The longer we keep the economy locked down, the more people will suffer — not just economically but mentally and physically (suicide, weakening immune systems and diseases spread due to depression and homelessness, lack of physical exercise, etc.).

This is one of my major complaints: Few folks who want to get the economy cranking again (and I strongly do) are noting the potential mental and physical health damage being done by not doing so. The argument seems overwhelmingly "economic" as opposed to both economic and a whole slew of non-virus related mental and physical health concerns that could worsen very soon if we don't resume some element of normalcy.

And because the politicians seemingly are too unskilled to articulate this (I will not mention names), ... it lessens the strength of their argument to reopen the economy.

Politicians are well to do. They live around professionals and other well to do people. Love him or hate him, the reason Trump got elected is because blue collar people have been ignored by both parties for 30 years and voted for a change. This is more of the same. The middle middle and lower middle income people are getting crushed economically. But the politicians don't live around those people and don't see it.

You aren’t wrong of course, but it always completely blew my mind that Donald Trump of all people was able to successfully brand himself as a man of the working people
05-19-2020 07:28 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #31
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-19-2020 07:28 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 08:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 12:03 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Would a politician of either party or somebody on this board other than me (maybe I've overlooked and apologize if so) please say the following:

The longer we keep the economy locked down, the more people will suffer — not just economically but mentally and physically (suicide, weakening immune systems and diseases spread due to depression and homelessness, lack of physical exercise, etc.).

This is one of my major complaints: Few folks who want to get the economy cranking again (and I strongly do) are noting the potential mental and physical health damage being done by not doing so. The argument seems overwhelmingly "economic" as opposed to both economic and a whole slew of non-virus related mental and physical health concerns that could worsen very soon if we don't resume some element of normalcy.

And because the politicians seemingly are too unskilled to articulate this (I will not mention names), ... it lessens the strength of their argument to reopen the economy.

Politicians are well to do. They live around professionals and other well to do people. Love him or hate him, the reason Trump got elected is because blue collar people have been ignored by both parties for 30 years and voted for a change. This is more of the same. The middle middle and lower middle income people are getting crushed economically. But the politicians don't live around those people and don't see it.

You aren’t wrong of course, but it always completely blew my mind that Donald Trump of all people was able to successfully brand himself as a man of the working people

Why? Wealthy politicians branding themselves as friends of the workers is old hat among Democrats - think FDR and the Kennedy's. It's about policies not personal wealth.
05-19-2020 07:34 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #32
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-19-2020 07:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-19-2020 07:28 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 08:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 12:03 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Would a politician of either party or somebody on this board other than me (maybe I've overlooked and apologize if so) please say the following:

The longer we keep the economy locked down, the more people will suffer — not just economically but mentally and physically (suicide, weakening immune systems and diseases spread due to depression and homelessness, lack of physical exercise, etc.).

This is one of my major complaints: Few folks who want to get the economy cranking again (and I strongly do) are noting the potential mental and physical health damage being done by not doing so. The argument seems overwhelmingly "economic" as opposed to both economic and a whole slew of non-virus related mental and physical health concerns that could worsen very soon if we don't resume some element of normalcy.

And because the politicians seemingly are too unskilled to articulate this (I will not mention names), ... it lessens the strength of their argument to reopen the economy.

Politicians are well to do. They live around professionals and other well to do people. Love him or hate him, the reason Trump got elected is because blue collar people have been ignored by both parties for 30 years and voted for a change. This is more of the same. The middle middle and lower middle income people are getting crushed economically. But the politicians don't live around those people and don't see it.

You aren’t wrong of course, but it always completely blew my mind that Donald Trump of all people was able to successfully brand himself as a man of the working people

Why? Wealthy politicians branding themselves as friends of the workers is old hat among Democrats - think FDR and the Kennedy's. It's about policies not personal wealth.
"It was a well run campaign what with the broom and the midget. Homer Stokes, friend of the little man whose gong to clean up the Capitol." Yeah. It's a time honored tradition!
05-19-2020 09:33 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #33
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-19-2020 07:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-19-2020 07:28 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 08:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-18-2020 12:03 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Would a politician of either party or somebody on this board other than me (maybe I've overlooked and apologize if so) please say the following:

The longer we keep the economy locked down, the more people will suffer — not just economically but mentally and physically (suicide, weakening immune systems and diseases spread due to depression and homelessness, lack of physical exercise, etc.).

This is one of my major complaints: Few folks who want to get the economy cranking again (and I strongly do) are noting the potential mental and physical health damage being done by not doing so. The argument seems overwhelmingly "economic" as opposed to both economic and a whole slew of non-virus related mental and physical health concerns that could worsen very soon if we don't resume some element of normalcy.

And because the politicians seemingly are too unskilled to articulate this (I will not mention names), ... it lessens the strength of their argument to reopen the economy.

Politicians are well to do. They live around professionals and other well to do people. Love him or hate him, the reason Trump got elected is because blue collar people have been ignored by both parties for 30 years and voted for a change. This is more of the same. The middle middle and lower middle income people are getting crushed economically. But the politicians don't live around those people and don't see it.

You aren’t wrong of course, but it always completely blew my mind that Donald Trump of all people was able to successfully brand himself as a man of the working people

Why? Wealthy politicians branding themselves as friends of the workers is old hat among Democrats - think FDR and the Kennedy's. It's about policies not personal wealth.

I really don’t care to get into a political debate but the short version is because he’s a billionaire whose penthouse is plated in gold and who has a long history of shorting and/or not paying workers.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2020 09:43 AM by Gamecock.)
05-19-2020 09:42 AM
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Post: #34
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-17-2020 10:34 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  An 89 year old is just as vulnerable to good old fashioned Flu which, even with a vaccine, averages 45-65k deaths a year. Last year was a particularly bad flu season with 80k deaths.

I’m all for the old and immune compromised continue to shelter in place.

But if you are under 60 and have no preexisting pulmonary or cardiac issue this virus is extremely low risk to you. These folks need to get back out there and build herd immunity and get the economy going again.

That includes a universal immunity against law suits from COVID. If you choose to go to a restaurant, movie or CFB game you are agreeing that you assumed the risk and the entertainment provider is not responsible, similar to how a Rangers ticket says they’re not responsible for drunk fans falling off the top deck

Covid is substantially more contagious than the flu because, among other things, nobody has natural immunity. It will not stop spreading until 1) we have a vaccine or 2) around 70% of the population have gotten it. If we reopen everything with no social distancing, you are choosing option 2, which at a 99.5% survival comes to over 1 million deaths in the US, 20 times more than a typical flu season and more than the Spanish Flu of 1918-19 (albeit with a smaller US population).

The problem with your "assume the risk argument" is that you are assuming the risk for everyone that you subsequently come into contact with. With a long incubation period and many cases with little or no symptoms, a single asymptomatic person can spread the disease to many others, some of whom will be far more vulnerable.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2020 09:52 AM by orangefan.)
05-19-2020 09:48 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #35
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-19-2020 09:48 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 10:34 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  An 89 year old is just as vulnerable to good old fashioned Flu which, even with a vaccine, averages 45-65k deaths a year. Last year was a particularly bad flu season with 80k deaths.

I’m all for the old and immune compromised continue to shelter in place.

But if you are under 60 and have no preexisting pulmonary or cardiac issue this virus is extremely low risk to you. These folks need to get back out there and build herd immunity and get the economy going again.

That includes a universal immunity against law suits from COVID. If you choose to go to a restaurant, movie or CFB game you are agreeing that you assumed the risk and the entertainment provider is not responsible, similar to how a Rangers ticket says they’re not responsible for drunk fans falling off the top deck

Covid is substantially more contagious than the flu because, among other things, nobody has natural immunity. It will not stop spreading until 1) we have a vaccine or 2) around 70% of the population have gotten it. If we reopen everything with no social distancing, you are choosing option 2, which at a 99.5% survival comes to over 1 million deaths in the US, 20 times more than a typical flu season and more than the Spanish Flu of 1918-19 (albeit with a smaller US population).

The problem with your "assume the risk argument" is that you are assuming the risk for everyone that you subsequently come into contact with. With a long incubation period and many cases with little or no symptoms, a single asymptomatic person can spread the disease to many others, some of whom will be far more vulnerable.

Not sure there will be vaccine, but rather maintenance drugs that force it into hiding within the body so that it is not contagious as with HIV and Herpes.

Also, 70% may not matter. It's recurring with force in some who have had it, gotten over it, tested negative, and gotten it again. Nobody is sure yet if they've been re-infected or if it simply remains in the body and recurs.

So both of these alleged remedies might be remedies, or at least a control factor, or they may not be. We just don't know yet.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2020 10:02 AM by JRsec.)
05-19-2020 10:01 AM
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Post: #36
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-19-2020 09:48 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 10:34 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  An 89 year old is just as vulnerable to good old fashioned Flu which, even with a vaccine, averages 45-65k deaths a year. Last year was a particularly bad flu season with 80k deaths.

I’m all for the old and immune compromised continue to shelter in place.

But if you are under 60 and have no preexisting pulmonary or cardiac issue this virus is extremely low risk to you. These folks need to get back out there and build herd immunity and get the economy going again.

That includes a universal immunity against law suits from COVID. If you choose to go to a restaurant, movie or CFB game you are agreeing that you assumed the risk and the entertainment provider is not responsible, similar to how a Rangers ticket says they’re not responsible for drunk fans falling off the top deck

Covid is substantially more contagious than the flu because, among other things, nobody has natural immunity. It will not stop spreading until 1) we have a vaccine or 2) around 70% of the population have gotten it. If we reopen everything with no social distancing, you are choosing option 2, which at a 99.5% survival comes to over 1 million deaths in the US, 20 times more than a typical flu season and more than the Spanish Flu of 1918-19 (albeit with a smaller US population).

The problem with your "assume the risk argument" is that you are assuming the risk for everyone that you subsequently come into contact with. With a long incubation period and many cases with little or no symptoms, a single asymptomatic person can spread the disease to many others, some of whom will be far more vulnerable.

Indications are that the virus is actually less deadly than the normal flue for everyone under 60. 0.5% overall is probably too high by a factor of 2 to 5 times. And not everyone will get the disease.

The complete shutdown we have had is simply unsustainable. You can only print money for so long. Food prices are already spiking. When shutdowns limit spare parts, the trucks that deliver everything won't run. The big companies have held off layoffs, but they will soon follow as huge portions of their businesses are gone. And hyper inflation and high unemployment eventually gives you something like Weimar Germany. We are also talking about permanently short changing the education of millions of youths.

And things won't go back to the way they were for a long time. Companies are talking about January or later for bringing people back in the office. Many people will not go back into restaurants and movie theaters. The travel industry is virtually gone until this virus has run its course. Companies and many vacationers are severely cutting back travel. There will be at least a 2 year drag on the world economy.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2020 10:06 AM by bullet.)
05-19-2020 10:02 AM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #37
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-17-2020 10:34 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  An 89 year old is just as vulnerable to good old fashioned Flu which, even with a vaccine, averages 45-65k deaths a year. Last year was a particularly bad flu season with 80k deaths.

I’m all for the old and immune compromised continue to shelter in place.

But if you are under 60 and have no preexisting pulmonary or cardiac issue this virus is extremely low risk to you. These folks need to get back out there and build herd immunity and get the economy going again.

That includes a universal immunity against law suits from COVID. If you choose to go to a restaurant, movie or CFB game you are agreeing that you assumed the risk and the entertainment provider is not responsible, similar to how a Rangers ticket says they’re not responsible for drunk fans falling off the top deck

Covid is substantially more contagious than the flu because, among other things, nobody has natural immunity. It will not stop spreading until 1) we have a vaccine or 2) around 70% of the population have gotten it. If we reopen everything with no social distancing, you are choosing option 2, which at 99.5% survival comes to over 1 million deaths in the US, 20 times more than a typical flu season and more than the Spanish Flu of 1918-19 (albeit with a smaller US population).

The problem with the "assume the risk" argument is that you are taking the risk for everyone you subsequently come into contact with, not just yourself, including many who may be at higher risk from the disease.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2020 10:11 AM by orangefan.)
05-19-2020 10:08 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #38
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-19-2020 10:02 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-19-2020 09:48 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 10:34 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  An 89 year old is just as vulnerable to good old fashioned Flu which, even with a vaccine, averages 45-65k deaths a year. Last year was a particularly bad flu season with 80k deaths.

I’m all for the old and immune compromised continue to shelter in place.

But if you are under 60 and have no preexisting pulmonary or cardiac issue this virus is extremely low risk to you. These folks need to get back out there and build herd immunity and get the economy going again.

That includes a universal immunity against law suits from COVID. If you choose to go to a restaurant, movie or CFB game you are agreeing that you assumed the risk and the entertainment provider is not responsible, similar to how a Rangers ticket says they’re not responsible for drunk fans falling off the top deck

Covid is substantially more contagious than the flu because, among other things, nobody has natural immunity. It will not stop spreading until 1) we have a vaccine or 2) around 70% of the population have gotten it. If we reopen everything with no social distancing, you are choosing option 2, which at a 99.5% survival comes to over 1 million deaths in the US, 20 times more than a typical flu season and more than the Spanish Flu of 1918-19 (albeit with a smaller US population).

The problem with your "assume the risk argument" is that you are assuming the risk for everyone that you subsequently come into contact with. With a long incubation period and many cases with little or no symptoms, a single asymptomatic person can spread the disease to many others, some of whom will be far more vulnerable.

Indications are that the virus is actually less deadly than the normal flue for everyone under 60. 0.5% overall is probably too high by a factor of 2 to 5 times. And not everyone will get the disease.

The complete shutdown we have had is simply unsustainable. You can only print money for so long. Food prices are already spiking. When shutdowns limit spare parts, the trucks that deliver everything won't run. The big companies have held off layoffs, but they will soon follow as huge portions of their businesses are gone. And hyper inflation and high unemployment eventually gives you something like Weimar Germany. We are also talking about permanently short changing the education of millions of youths.

It will absolutely be like Weimar Germany. Negative interest rates and inflated commodities are hell. Much worse than the deflation of the Great Depression where a nickel bought a bag of potatoes. We had deflation in the 30's because the money was still backed by Gold and to a lesser extent Silver. Weimar had a fiat currency, you know, like we have now, which is why we are trying to print our way out of this.

What we need to do is to quarantine my age group, let the young go back to work, and keep old folks hours at grocery and hardware, and general merchandise outlets. That's been quite effective here.

As for short changing the education of our youth, they've been doing that for years, just doing it face to face!
05-19-2020 10:10 AM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #39
RE: SEC vote on May 22
The shutdowns MUST end. People need to be free to choose their own level of risk and pursue their economic interests.

Now I still think fall football is pretty stupid. We don't need crowds of 80,000 people, some of whom, simply by statistics, will be sick. Its entertainment, not essential.
05-19-2020 10:10 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #40
RE: SEC vote on May 22
(05-19-2020 10:10 AM)bullet Wrote:  The shutdowns MUST end. People need to be free to choose their own level of risk and pursue their economic interests.

Now I still think fall football is pretty stupid. We don't need crowds of 80,000 people, some of whom, simply by statistics, will be sick. Its entertainment, not essential.

I think we likely end up seeing some sort of middle ground - maybe 10-30k per game

I also think nearly every school ends up playing this year at the FBS level with the possible exception of maybe a handful of G5 schools
05-19-2020 11:43 AM
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