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OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
(05-16-2020 05:02 PM)UTerry Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 07:16 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 06:37 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 04:33 PM)emanoh Wrote:  The P5 conferences are just lapping this kind of stuff up, hoping the mid majors force themselves to DII. So they don't have to deal with us and keep all the $ for themselves. Sorry to hear BG is cutting a main sport. Oral Hershiser has to be pissed.

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Yep.

Whether it’s a drop as far as DII or the creation of a new NCAA level that’s a cut below P5, this was moving in they direction since the distinction was made between P5 and G5. COVID-19 will just speed this along a bit faster.

And people have been coming after me for suggesting that the MAC should consider moving to FCS. It would allow us to drop two sports and significantly cut back on scholarships overall while not really affecting the competition level we face on a day to day basis.

I am all for the MAC dropping to FCS status where most of the schools belong!!!!!!! But Toledo should remain FBS because it one of the very few if not the only one that IS actually or can operate at the FBS status. Toledo's Women's BB average attendance is larger than 10 of Men's BB teams of the MAC...….

Here's a hypothetical.....and it could happen.....maybe not. If BG were to drop to FCS, do you think SOME of the marketing money that it competes for with UT would then start going to Toledo's coffers????

I'm not sure who the major BGSU sponsorship partners are, but I'd have to assume there would be a decent chance of that happening. I'm not sure how many of their sponsors are BG specific companies, that's the only thing that may not play on favor of us taking them in (Cooper Tire is the only company I can think of whose name has popped up on any BGSU Athletics stuff, and theyve got a good relationship with UT Engineering)..All of this is a moot point, because the conference and the schools who need to do so will absolutely not move down.

BGSU is so weird...they subsidize at a far higher rate than we do and their budget is borderline D2 level right now, not FCS...D2. Before this $2M cut they're looking at they were already the 3rd smallest public AD budget in FBS, now they'll be lower than the average FCS budget. No idea why they're doing what they're doing athletically, they really are the clear corollary to Grand Valley State if there was one in the MAC, just without the decent metro area that GVSU has.
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2020 09:29 PM by BearcatMan.)
05-16-2020 09:21 PM
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DetroitRocket Offline
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Post: #22
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
(05-16-2020 09:21 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 05:02 PM)UTerry Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 07:16 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 06:37 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 04:33 PM)emanoh Wrote:  The P5 conferences are just lapping this kind of stuff up, hoping the mid majors force themselves to DII. So they don't have to deal with us and keep all the $ for themselves. Sorry to hear BG is cutting a main sport. Oral Hershiser has to be pissed.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Yep.

Whether it’s a drop as far as DII or the creation of a new NCAA level that’s a cut below P5, this was moving in they direction since the distinction was made between P5 and G5. COVID-19 will just speed this along a bit faster.

And people have been coming after me for suggesting that the MAC should consider moving to FCS. It would allow us to drop two sports and significantly cut back on scholarships overall while not really affecting the competition level we face on a day to day basis.

I am all for the MAC dropping to FCS status where most of the schools belong!!!!!!! But Toledo should remain FBS because it one of the very few if not the only one that IS actually or can operate at the FBS status. Toledo's Women's BB average attendance is larger than 10 of Men's BB teams of the MAC...….

Here's a hypothetical.....and it could happen.....maybe not. If BG were to drop to FCS, do you think SOME of the marketing money that it competes for with UT would then start going to Toledo's coffers????

I'm not sure who the major BGSU sponsorship partners are, but I'd have to assume there would be a decent chance of that happening. I'm not sure how many of their sponsors are BG specific companies, that's the only thing that may not play on favor of us taking them in (Cooper Tire is the only company I can think of whose name has popped up on any BGSU Athletics stuff, and theyve got a good relationship with UT Engineering)..All of this is a moot point, because the conference and the schools who need to do so will absolutely not move down.

BGSU is so weird...they subsidize at a far higher rate than we do and their budget is borderline D2 level right now, not FCS...D2. Before this $2M cut they're looking at they were already the 3rd smallest public AD budget in FBS, now they'll be lower than the average FCS budget. No idea why they're doing what they're doing athletically, they really are the clear corollary to Grand Valley State if there was one in the MAC, just without the decent metro area that GVSU has.

I think hockey really takes money from other programs. After football and basketball, UT doesn't have any expensive sports, but BG has to support hockey although it does bring in income. Miami and WMU are in the same boat, but they seem to have better overall financial support.
05-17-2020 01:55 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
(05-17-2020 01:55 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 09:21 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 05:02 PM)UTerry Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 07:16 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-15-2020 06:37 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  Yep.

Whether it’s a drop as far as DII or the creation of a new NCAA level that’s a cut below P5, this was moving in they direction since the distinction was made between P5 and G5. COVID-19 will just speed this along a bit faster.

And people have been coming after me for suggesting that the MAC should consider moving to FCS. It would allow us to drop two sports and significantly cut back on scholarships overall while not really affecting the competition level we face on a day to day basis.

I am all for the MAC dropping to FCS status where most of the schools belong!!!!!!! But Toledo should remain FBS because it one of the very few if not the only one that IS actually or can operate at the FBS status. Toledo's Women's BB average attendance is larger than 10 of Men's BB teams of the MAC...….

Here's a hypothetical.....and it could happen.....maybe not. If BG were to drop to FCS, do you think SOME of the marketing money that it competes for with UT would then start going to Toledo's coffers????

I'm not sure who the major BGSU sponsorship partners are, but I'd have to assume there would be a decent chance of that happening. I'm not sure how many of their sponsors are BG specific companies, that's the only thing that may not play on favor of us taking them in (Cooper Tire is the only company I can think of whose name has popped up on any BGSU Athletics stuff, and theyve got a good relationship with UT Engineering)..All of this is a moot point, because the conference and the schools who need to do so will absolutely not move down.

BGSU is so weird...they subsidize at a far higher rate than we do and their budget is borderline D2 level right now, not FCS...D2. Before this $2M cut they're looking at they were already the 3rd smallest public AD budget in FBS, now they'll be lower than the average FCS budget. No idea why they're doing what they're doing athletically, they really are the clear corollary to Grand Valley State if there was one in the MAC, just without the decent metro area that GVSU has.

I think hockey really takes money from other programs. After football and basketball, UT doesn't have any expensive sports, but BG has to support hockey although it does bring in income. Miami and WMU are in the same boat, but they seem to have better overall financial support.

Yeah, hockey is a weird one...I honestly bet it is probably the most net positive sports in BGSU's AD through attendance, gifts, and conference support. They pull in a ton of money from alumni gifts on the hockey side, lot more than I ever imagined before I looked under the hood.
05-17-2020 06:58 AM
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Post: #24
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
(05-16-2020 06:49 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  
(05-16-2020 06:40 PM)utrocks84 Wrote:  WHY can't the MAC stay FBS and drop programs that can't and add some either from FCS that want to move up or from AAC and C-USA. Teams like UC, Temple, UConn, NAvy, WKU, maybe Old Dominion, Marshall. Make a better conference logistically and competitively than the MAC, AAC or C-USA is now. By reducing travel for C-USA and AAC and having better regional marketing for them within their conferences it may enable a really good football and basketball conference and reduce travel for non revenue sports. This maybe wacky, but something like this would be one way to keep UT, Buffalo and who every can meet standards for a more elite conference that in time could compete with P5 schools due to media draws from where these schools are located. PICK YOUR BEST WISH LIST FOR A NEW CONFERENCE FOR TOLEDO. Those non P5 schools available.

I think most of the schools in the MAC want to stay FBS and will do everything they can to stay there. Now if we can't get the virus under control and students on campus, then all bets are off.

I think most of the schools in the MAC want to stay in the MAC whether it's FBS or FCS. To remain with what they consider to be peer institutions and to maintain the mostly bus-travel geo. footprint. The MAC in turn wants to hang in with the G5 as long as possible while all of the G5 is probably hoping for some type of NCAA reform that reduces spending or imposes limits across the board.
05-17-2020 09:49 AM
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IamN2daRockets! Offline
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Post: #25
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
I think I can bring up any topic at any time. I brought up the AAC only since it is local with UC and the thought came to mind that the AAC has been campaigning hard to join the P5. I wonder how this campaign can continue in the face of all the Covid budget cuts?
05-17-2020 10:24 AM
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IamN2daRockets! Offline
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Post: #26
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
I feel for the gentleman who gave 1 million of his hard earned dollars to BGSU for the new stadium and then saw the program cancelled. That has to be a gut punch of the highest magnitude. Very tough indeed.
05-17-2020 10:26 AM
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DetroitRocket Offline
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Post: #27
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
(05-17-2020 10:24 AM)IamN2daRockets! Wrote:  I think I can bring up any topic at any time. I brought up the AAC only since it is local with UC and the thought came to mind that the AAC has been campaigning hard to join the P5. I wonder how this campaign can continue in the face of all the Covid budget cuts?

Why would power 5 schools let more members in, when they don't have to share the big bucks with other schools?
05-17-2020 10:53 AM
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IamN2daRockets! Offline
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Post: #28
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
Precisely... given the current situation the P5 is even more likely to keep the status quo. Their not going to further subdivide a shrinking pie
05-17-2020 02:09 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #29
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
(05-17-2020 02:09 PM)IamN2daRockets! Wrote:  Precisely... given the current situation the P5 is even more likely to keep the status quo. Their not going to further subdivide a shrinking pie

Exactly, which is why the Big 12 didn't expand two years ago. Hell, there may be contraction at the top, with the conferences dropping the meaningless deadweight and adding in some big dogs once things turn over in 2024 (SEC cutting out Vandy for Texas or Oklahoma, ACC getting rid of Wake Forest for someone, etc). I think when the dust clears there will be 4 "Power" conferences left and Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, West Virginia and TCU will have to find another home, probably in the AAC or the AAC schools would join a watered down Big 12, just like some of them jumped into the Big East back in the mid-00s to replace the fleeing VT, Miami, and BC. It'll probably end up those 6 schools with Cincinnat, Memphis, Houston, UCF, USF, and one of the others (most likely between Temple and SMU) for a new conference.

The AAC's P6 campaign has allowed them to separate themselves from the rest of the G5, but it has done nothing to push them closer to the P5, that much is clear. The assumption now among fans of high level donors who have been part of some of these discussions is that most of the AAC schools will be looking to move their budgetary anchors (everything but Basketball and Football) to regional conferences...but there is no chance that they'd push out Basketball and Football considering how much more money they're receiving from their media rights than they would in any of the other conferences ($7M/year vs. the next closest MWC at just north of $3M/year). That's the only way you'll see a Cincinnati or Temple team in the MAC again...if it's baseball, women's sports, or men's deadweight. Football and basketball aren't coming back with the amount of money they have all dropped into those operations. Wichita State won't be moving back the MVC, and the Texas and SE schools will never go back to the CUSA.
05-17-2020 03:09 PM
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inductchuck16 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
(05-17-2020 10:26 AM)IamN2daRockets! Wrote:  I feel for the gentleman who gave 1 million of his hard earned dollars to BGSU for the new stadium and then saw the program cancelled. That has to be a gut punch of the highest magnitude. Very tough indeed.

That’s a kick in the nuts if I’ve ever heard of one. Does he get his money back?
05-17-2020 03:18 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #31
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
(05-17-2020 03:18 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 10:26 AM)IamN2daRockets! Wrote:  I feel for the gentleman who gave 1 million of his hard earned dollars to BGSU for the new stadium and then saw the program cancelled. That has to be a gut punch of the highest magnitude. Very tough indeed.

That’s a kick in the nuts if I’ve ever heard of one. Does he get his money back?

There is normally a clause in larger funding agreements for named spaces that if the building is demolished or the supported program ends then you will have naming honors added to another facility/program should there be no use for the space. Now in this case, it may be weird, seeing as how they could just re-organize the stadium for Softball or make it into an intramural baseball field.
05-17-2020 03:38 PM
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eastisbest Offline
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Post: #32
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
Maybe they could try to get a lower division minor league team. The area could support it. The people who donated to that field deserve some effort on the part of their University.
05-17-2020 04:11 PM
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IamN2daRockets! Offline
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Post: #33
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
The Mountain West might disagree with the idea that the AAC has distanced themselves from other G5 conferences.
05-17-2020 07:01 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #34
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
(05-17-2020 07:01 PM)IamN2daRockets! Wrote:  The Mountain West might disagree with the idea that the AAC has distanced themselves from other G5 conferences.

The market dictated that then the AAC's media contract ended up nearly double what the MWC signed on for...and that doesn't even include the fact that Boise is getting about 30% of that contract (an even share would be 10%)...and that's not even counting the basketball bloodbath that comparison would be every year.
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2020 07:26 PM by BearcatMan.)
05-17-2020 07:24 PM
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IamN2daRockets! Offline
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Post: #35
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
I get it it Bearcat. The MWC is in the same situation as PAC 12 due to negative time zones from CST and EST prime viewership. That’s the reason for contract disparity. It’s not because of level of competitiveness. Tell that to the SDSU’s, BSU’s, AFA, Fresno’s, etc. the AAC has certainly done well but it is not a cohesive long term conference as stated in previous replies. It’ll be gone in a few years or completely restructured. The schools in the AAC have never had conference stability and probably never will. The MAC will sojourn on warts and all.

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05-18-2020 06:29 AM
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RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
Thanks Bearcat for the “half head” comment. I’ll remember that
05-18-2020 12:28 PM
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rocketinchitown Offline
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RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, West Virginia and TCU are all bigger basketball schools anyhow so could make sense to jump for a more basketball conference (sometimes I think the AAC is more basketball as well)

KU has quite the pull for dollars when needed so I wouldn't necessarily count them out. They were talked about being added to the SEC but they said KSU had to come too as a package deal (also because I think Kansas legislature requires it)

(05-17-2020 03:09 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 02:09 PM)IamN2daRockets! Wrote:  Precisely... given the current situation the P5 is even more likely to keep the status quo. Their not going to further subdivide a shrinking pie

Exactly, which is why the Big 12 didn't expand two years ago. Hell, there may be contraction at the top, with the conferences dropping the meaningless deadweight and adding in some big dogs once things turn over in 2024 (SEC cutting out Vandy for Texas or Oklahoma, ACC getting rid of Wake Forest for someone, etc). I think when the dust clears there will be 4 "Power" conferences left and Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, West Virginia and TCU will have to find another home, probably in the AAC or the AAC schools would join a watered down Big 12, just like some of them jumped into the Big East back in the mid-00s to replace the fleeing VT, Miami, and BC. It'll probably end up those 6 schools with Cincinnat, Memphis, Houston, UCF, USF, and one of the others (most likely between Temple and SMU) for a new conference.

The AAC's P6 campaign has allowed them to separate themselves from the rest of the G5, but it has done nothing to push them closer to the P5, that much is clear. The assumption now among fans of high level donors who have been part of some of these discussions is that most of the AAC schools will be looking to move their budgetary anchors (everything but Basketball and Football) to regional conferences...but there is no chance that they'd push out Basketball and Football considering how much more money they're receiving from their media rights than they would in any of the other conferences ($7M/year vs. the next closest MWC at just north of $3M/year). That's the only way you'll see a Cincinnati or Temple team in the MAC again...if it's baseball, women's sports, or men's deadweight. Football and basketball aren't coming back with the amount of money they have all dropped into those operations. Wichita State won't be moving back the MVC, and the Texas and SE schools will never go back to the CUSA.
05-18-2020 01:53 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #38
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
(05-18-2020 01:53 PM)rocketinchitown Wrote:  Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, West Virginia and TCU are all bigger basketball schools anyhow so could make sense to jump for a more basketball conference (sometimes I think the AAC is more basketball as well)

KU has quite the pull for dollars when needed so I wouldn't necessarily count them out. They were talked about being added to the SEC but they said KSU had to come too as a package deal (also because I think Kansas legislature requires it)

(05-17-2020 03:09 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-17-2020 02:09 PM)IamN2daRockets! Wrote:  Precisely... given the current situation the P5 is even more likely to keep the status quo. Their not going to further subdivide a shrinking pie

Exactly, which is why the Big 12 didn't expand two years ago. Hell, there may be contraction at the top, with the conferences dropping the meaningless deadweight and adding in some big dogs once things turn over in 2024 (SEC cutting out Vandy for Texas or Oklahoma, ACC getting rid of Wake Forest for someone, etc). I think when the dust clears there will be 4 "Power" conferences left and Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, West Virginia and TCU will have to find another home, probably in the AAC or the AAC schools would join a watered down Big 12, just like some of them jumped into the Big East back in the mid-00s to replace the fleeing VT, Miami, and BC. It'll probably end up those 6 schools with Cincinnat, Memphis, Houston, UCF, USF, and one of the others (most likely between Temple and SMU) for a new conference.

The AAC's P6 campaign has allowed them to separate themselves from the rest of the G5, but it has done nothing to push them closer to the P5, that much is clear. The assumption now among fans of high level donors who have been part of some of these discussions is that most of the AAC schools will be looking to move their budgetary anchors (everything but Basketball and Football) to regional conferences...but there is no chance that they'd push out Basketball and Football considering how much more money they're receiving from their media rights than they would in any of the other conferences ($7M/year vs. the next closest MWC at just north of $3M/year). That's the only way you'll see a Cincinnati or Temple team in the MAC again...if it's baseball, women's sports, or men's deadweight. Football and basketball aren't coming back with the amount of money they have all dropped into those operations. Wichita State won't be moving back the MVC, and the Texas and SE schools will never go back to the CUSA.

I could see Kansas finding their way into the Big 10 as well...though that probably would've been more likely if Missouri was still on the board. They both seem to fit the Big 10 profile far better than any other conference at this point.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2020 02:00 PM by BearcatMan.)
05-18-2020 01:59 PM
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Post: #39
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
Both Kansas and Mizzou are AAU schools which has always been an academic requirement to join the Big 10. Ironically UN-L lost their accreditation just after joining the Big 10. If this had happened just a few years earlier they would have never been admitted. This is a status problem academically for Nebraska. This issue could also have been the reason SU was not considered. I could see Kansas joining The Big 10 with Pitt also coming in as an eastern counter-balance institution

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05-18-2020 02:26 PM
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Post: #40
RE: OT: BGSU Cuts Baseball program
(05-18-2020 02:26 PM)IamN2daRockets! Wrote:  Both Kansas and Mizzou are AAU schools which has always been an academic requirement to join the Big 10. Ironically UN-L lost their accreditation just after joining the Big 10. If this had happened just a few years earlier they would have never been admitted. This is a status problem academically for Nebraska. This issue could also have been the reason SU was not considered. I could see Kansas joining The Big 10 with Pitt also coming in as an eastern counter-balance institution

Go Rockets!

Yeah, that would make quite a good deal of sense for both. I always thought that Syracuse was the next up on the eastern half for the same reasons you mention Pitt, but either one fits. Really, I think it's down to the votes at this point...PSU would do everything in their power to nix Pitt, there just doesn't seem to be anyone who would be viciously against Kansas. The whole mid-Atlantic/Tidewater expansion that was rumored for a bit there with UVA/VT/UNC to the Big 10 a few years back would've been intriguing too, but UNC owns the ACC, they'd have no incentive to leave.
05-18-2020 02:33 PM
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