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Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
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doss2 Offline
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Post: #181
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-24-2020 11:02 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 04:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Ran across this article in Forbes from a few days ago. Not a lot of material but the author talks about the woes facing Akron, Wright State and Ohio University. He think Akron and WSU will eventually be absorbed by someone else too.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...0874d9497b

Sad to hear OU has dropped its standards. 25 years ago when my daughter graduated *** Laude its academics were decent.

So your weird software considers ***-Laude vulgar? What about Magna and Summa?
 
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2020 06:00 AM by doss2.)
07-25-2020 11:09 PM
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Bearcatbdub Offline
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Post: #182
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-25-2020 11:09 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 11:02 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(07-24-2020 04:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Ran across this article in Forbes from a few days ago. Not a lot of material but the author talks about the woes facing Akron, Wright State and Ohio University. He think Akron and WSU will eventually be absorbed by someone else too.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...0874d9497b

Sad to hear OU has dropped its standards. 25 years ago when my daughter graduated *** Laude its academics were decent.

So you weird software considers *** Laude vulgar? What about Magna and Summa?

Duh?
 
07-26-2020 01:51 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #183
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-25-2020 10:18 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I've been told (by BGSU people) that what Bowling Green has going for it is that is brings in a LOT of "first generation to go to college" students. And that it really serves a whole lot of people from counties in northwest Ohio who have no wish to send their kids into the city of Toledo.

There are 6 public schools in Ohio who have higher 1st Gen rates (including UT) but yes, BGSU is less diverse than UT...however, it has far more on-campus crime. What BGSU REALLY has going for it is the fact the 4/5 teachers in Northwest Ohio are walking advertisements for them every day for 4 years to high schoolers in Northwest Ohio. It's an incredibly solid way to recruit, and it has really worked for them for the past decade+ as they've grown.

I would agree about most outlying counties in NWOH, but UT still takes the lion's share from the main population centers (Lucas, Wood outside of BGHS and Eastwood, and Ottawa Counties). Its one of those situations that neither will truly thrive until they exist together as one. In the past 5 years BGSU has tried to start a nursing school (which failed) and an engineering school (which is in the process of failing), and UT has continued to dump money into a failing education school and a failing social sciences programs, rather than one school just letting the other handle it. The old Nursing model worked incredibly well and met the needs of the community...but BGSU got greedy, and now they're scrambling.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2020 07:11 AM by BearcatMan.)
07-26-2020 07:09 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #184
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-26-2020 07:09 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 10:18 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I've been told (by BGSU people) that what Bowling Green has going for it is that is brings in a LOT of "first generation to go to college" students. And that it really serves a whole lot of people from counties in northwest Ohio who have no wish to send their kids into the city of Toledo.

There are 6 public schools in Ohio who have higher 1st Gen rates (including UT) but yes, BGSU is less diverse than UT...however, it has far more on-campus crime. What BGSU REALLY has going for it is the fact the 4/5 teachers in Northwest Ohio are walking advertisements for them every day for 4 years to high schoolers in Northwest Ohio. It's an incredibly solid way to recruit, and it has really worked for them for the past decade+ as they've grown.

I would agree about most outlying counties in NWOH, but UT still takes the lion's share from the main population centers (Lucas, Wood outside of BGHS and Eastwood, and Ottawa Counties). Its one of those situations that neither will truly thrive until they exist together as one. In the past 5 years BGSU has tried to start a nursing school (which failed) and an engineering school (which is in the process of failing), and UT has continued to dump money into a failing education school and a failing social sciences programs, rather than one school just letting the other handle it. The old Nursing model worked incredibly well and met the needs of the community...but BGSU got greedy, and now they're scrambling.

Ah yes, the intended takeover of Mercy College which blew up in BGSU's face and wound up being an alliance. Its a shame that UC Health and Mercy (now Bon Secours Mercy Health) are rivals otherwise it would make sense for UC to take over that program with the Mercy HQ being located in Cincinnati. Mercy wanted to dump the school for the right price. Mercy College has nursing programs in Toledo and Youngstown. Mercy College also has Healthcare Administration and Health Information IT programs.
 
07-26-2020 08:37 AM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-25-2020 04:01 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 02:06 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 09:55 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 09:47 AM)doss2 Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 08:29 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  I would probably bump UT up into the same group as BGSU, OU, and Kent State due to their much larger endowment than BGSU/KSU (triple both and just under a half billion) and their higher general research expenditures than all three, plus the benefit of having a decent metropolitan area to draw from. They're going to hurt, but they're in no way, shape, or form in the fore straits of CSU, YSU, or SSU. They ran a smaller budget deficit than KSU did this past year even with a decrease in enrollment vs. an increase for KSU. Kent State is is a way worse position than people think for one specific reason, theyve built out FAR too much and are extremely over-debted...those branch campuses were a great way to beat the retention-based funding rule, but they're killing their bottom line now.

Having said all of that, I'd still be absolutely shocked if BGSU and UT and Kent State and Akron were not merged into larger entities with explicit purposes (liberal arts at one campus, technical/professional degrees at the other) within the next two decades.

OU is also going to get slaughtered by Covid if they arent allowed to have on-campus classes. They rely on residential and auxiliary revenue for nearly 31% of their total operating budget every year. That's the problem with having absolutely no commuter student population...no budget insulation if you cannot house students.
Merge UT and BGSU. Merge Akron and KSU. Shawnee should be a branch of OU. WSU should be merged with UC or OSU (guess who wins).

The WSU thing is interesting. UC can't "win," but if it pursues a conciliatory non-competitive path with OSU (the opposite of what Ono would do), it can end up in a constructive collaboration where it doesn't lose. If I take off the black and red glasses for a moment, I think it's up to UC to show the good faith here and demonstrate to OSU that it can be a constructive partner rather than a rival. Ono did everything he could to throw gasoline on the relationship and then dance around with a zippo in his hand, but with him gone and a new OSU President coming in, there is a window to take a different path.

Spot on we should genuflect to the God of OSU and hope for some crumbs from them.

No, but we should recognize the god damned 800 pound gorilla in the room and try to avoid poking a stick at it. Attempting to find some common ground and collaboration with them on something like taking over WSU is not genuflecting and hoping for crumbs. It's smart, strategic thinking. Or we could take Ono's path and poke that stick and make it an us versus them proposition, and when the state turns around and inevitably gives full control of WSU to the school that has built up a century of political capital in every county and town in the state, we can then sit in our I-275 bubble and complain about how unfair everything is.

UC's problem, as I've said a hundred times, is not OSU pushing UC down. It's half a dozen other state schools pulling UC back because they think it's their god given right to take a shot at the throne.

I really enjoy reading peoples insights. Thanks! So sometimes people in academia are very sheltered, and in their own bubble. Maybe out of touch at times. Is there anyone at UC that has broad thinking? Someone who can look at it as a strategic strategy as you have mentioned?

Do they use outside consultants? Or basically the board of trustees who made of wealthy business people who may be experts in their own area with a strong understanding of business though? Is it just Pinto’s vision or do they really have a strong team looking at a 20 and 30 year plan?
 
07-26-2020 10:16 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #186
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-26-2020 10:16 AM)ZCat Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 04:01 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 02:06 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 09:55 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 09:47 AM)doss2 Wrote:  Merge UT and BGSU. Merge Akron and KSU. Shawnee should be a branch of OU. WSU should be merged with UC or OSU (guess who wins).

The WSU thing is interesting. UC can't "win," but if it pursues a conciliatory non-competitive path with OSU (the opposite of what Ono would do), it can end up in a constructive collaboration where it doesn't lose. If I take off the black and red glasses for a moment, I think it's up to UC to show the good faith here and demonstrate to OSU that it can be a constructive partner rather than a rival. Ono did everything he could to throw gasoline on the relationship and then dance around with a zippo in his hand, but with him gone and a new OSU President coming in, there is a window to take a different path.

Spot on we should genuflect to the God of OSU and hope for some crumbs from them.

No, but we should recognize the god damned 800 pound gorilla in the room and try to avoid poking a stick at it. Attempting to find some common ground and collaboration with them on something like taking over WSU is not genuflecting and hoping for crumbs. It's smart, strategic thinking. Or we could take Ono's path and poke that stick and make it an us versus them proposition, and when the state turns around and inevitably gives full control of WSU to the school that has built up a century of political capital in every county and town in the state, we can then sit in our I-275 bubble and complain about how unfair everything is.

UC's problem, as I've said a hundred times, is not OSU pushing UC down. It's half a dozen other state schools pulling UC back because they think it's their god given right to take a shot at the throne.

I really enjoy reading peoples insights. Thanks! So sometimes people in academia are very sheltered, and in their own bubble. Maybe out of touch at times. Is there anyone at UC that has broad thinking? Someone who can look at it as a strategic strategy as you have mentioned?

Do they use outside consultants? Or basically the board of trustees who made of wealthy business people who may be experts in their own area with a strong understanding of business though? Is it just Pinto’s vision or do they really have a strong team looking at a 20 and 30 year plan?

Good question. Most of it comes up from five, ten, twenty year plans drawn up by an administration (with or without outside consultants) and then put to the BoT for approval. I'd assume the President has a large amount of influence but not an overriding amount as many areas of the university would have input.

What's pleased me under Pinto is that this appears to be done on a much more quiet, professional basis than it was by Ono. I know for a fact that he's taken a realistic approach to AAU membership and put it on the back burner in favor of pushing for a Comprehensive Cancer Center designation for the medical school, which is a much more realistic goal for UC right now. And obviously, this is largely being done behind the scenes and not through boastful tweets about what is certainly right around the corner......right up until the moment that we find out it wasn't.
 
07-27-2020 07:37 AM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #187
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-27-2020 07:37 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 10:16 AM)ZCat Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 04:01 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 02:06 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 09:55 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  The WSU thing is interesting. UC can't "win," but if it pursues a conciliatory non-competitive path with OSU (the opposite of what Ono would do), it can end up in a constructive collaboration where it doesn't lose. If I take off the black and red glasses for a moment, I think it's up to UC to show the good faith here and demonstrate to OSU that it can be a constructive partner rather than a rival. Ono did everything he could to throw gasoline on the relationship and then dance around with a zippo in his hand, but with him gone and a new OSU President coming in, there is a window to take a different path.

Spot on we should genuflect to the God of OSU and hope for some crumbs from them.

No, but we should recognize the god damned 800 pound gorilla in the room and try to avoid poking a stick at it. Attempting to find some common ground and collaboration with them on something like taking over WSU is not genuflecting and hoping for crumbs. It's smart, strategic thinking. Or we could take Ono's path and poke that stick and make it an us versus them proposition, and when the state turns around and inevitably gives full control of WSU to the school that has built up a century of political capital in every county and town in the state, we can then sit in our I-275 bubble and complain about how unfair everything is.

UC's problem, as I've said a hundred times, is not OSU pushing UC down. It's half a dozen other state schools pulling UC back because they think it's their god given right to take a shot at the throne.

I really enjoy reading peoples insights. Thanks! So sometimes people in academia are very sheltered, and in their own bubble. Maybe out of touch at times. Is there anyone at UC that has broad thinking? Someone who can look at it as a strategic strategy as you have mentioned?

Do they use outside consultants? Or basically the board of trustees who made of wealthy business people who may be experts in their own area with a strong understanding of business though? Is it just Pinto’s vision or do they really have a strong team looking at a 20 and 30 year plan?

Good question. Most of it comes up from five, ten, twenty year plans drawn up by an administration (with or without outside consultants) and then put to the BoT for approval. I'd assume the President has a large amount of influence but not an overriding amount as many areas of the university would have input.

What's pleased me under Pinto is that this appears to be done on a much more quiet, professional basis than it was by Ono. I know for a fact that he's taken a realistic approach to AAU membership and put it on the back burner in favor of pushing for a Comprehensive Cancer Center designation for the medical school, which is a much more realistic goal for UC right now. And obviously, this is largely being done behind the scenes and not through boastful tweets about what is certainly right around the corner......right up until the moment that we find out it wasn't.

Well said. Bolded, this is a critical gateway for our institution and I believe is articulated as such in UC's current comprehensive campaign for private support. It's more achievable than AAU membership, which is more akin to getting voted into a country club.

Few of us here could provide the full financial support needed for that cancer project but for alumni and friends on Banter, participation by giving at any level is important. For Ohioans, that can be as simple as going online and ordering a UC license plate (I saw far too many for OSU this weekend visiting family in northeast OH). For others, a gift through the telefund or online for your college or alumni association or UCATS makes an impact. Large numbers of small gifts have been another avenue to empowering many of our major public research peers.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2020 09:37 AM by OKIcat.)
07-27-2020 09:36 AM
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Post: #188
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-26-2020 07:09 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 10:18 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I've been told (by BGSU people) that what Bowling Green has going for it is that is brings in a LOT of "first generation to go to college" students. And that it really serves a whole lot of people from counties in northwest Ohio who have no wish to send their kids into the city of Toledo.

There are 6 public schools in Ohio who have higher 1st Gen rates (including UT) but yes, BGSU is less diverse than UT...however, it has far more on-campus crime. What BGSU REALLY has going for it is the fact the 4/5 teachers in Northwest Ohio are walking advertisements for them every day for 4 years to high schoolers in Northwest Ohio. It's an incredibly solid way to recruit, and it has really worked for them for the past decade+ as they've grown.

I would agree about most outlying counties in NWOH, but UT still takes the lion's share from the main population centers (Lucas, Wood outside of BGHS and Eastwood, and Ottawa Counties). Its one of those situations that neither will truly thrive until they exist together as one. In the past 5 years BGSU has tried to start a nursing school (which failed) and an engineering school (which is in the process of failing), and UT has continued to dump money into a failing education school and a failing social sciences programs, rather than one school just letting the other handle it. The old Nursing model worked incredibly well and met the needs of the community...but BGSU got greedy, and now they're scrambling.

I would add three other things:
"serving 1st generation students" isn't something you can aim for. It's something you're relegated to when you can't do anything else. My last college (San Diego State) served a lot of 1st gen students, but that was just another way of saying that we were less selective than UCSD across town.

Serving "people in NW OH who have no wish to send their kids to the city of Toledo" is an incredibly small market. If you take away Lucas County, there's maybe 1 million people in NW Ohio. Most of whom are fine with UT. And most of whom would much rather go to OSU anyways.

And I completely agree about the strength of the College of Education in driving recruits.
 
07-27-2020 10:10 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #189
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-27-2020 09:36 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 07:37 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 10:16 AM)ZCat Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 04:01 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 02:06 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Spot on we should genuflect to the God of OSU and hope for some crumbs from them.

No, but we should recognize the god damned 800 pound gorilla in the room and try to avoid poking a stick at it. Attempting to find some common ground and collaboration with them on something like taking over WSU is not genuflecting and hoping for crumbs. It's smart, strategic thinking. Or we could take Ono's path and poke that stick and make it an us versus them proposition, and when the state turns around and inevitably gives full control of WSU to the school that has built up a century of political capital in every county and town in the state, we can then sit in our I-275 bubble and complain about how unfair everything is.

UC's problem, as I've said a hundred times, is not OSU pushing UC down. It's half a dozen other state schools pulling UC back because they think it's their god given right to take a shot at the throne.

I really enjoy reading peoples insights. Thanks! So sometimes people in academia are very sheltered, and in their own bubble. Maybe out of touch at times. Is there anyone at UC that has broad thinking? Someone who can look at it as a strategic strategy as you have mentioned?

Do they use outside consultants? Or basically the board of trustees who made of wealthy business people who may be experts in their own area with a strong understanding of business though? Is it just Pinto’s vision or do they really have a strong team looking at a 20 and 30 year plan?

Good question. Most of it comes up from five, ten, twenty year plans drawn up by an administration (with or without outside consultants) and then put to the BoT for approval. I'd assume the President has a large amount of influence but not an overriding amount as many areas of the university would have input.

What's pleased me under Pinto is that this appears to be done on a much more quiet, professional basis than it was by Ono. I know for a fact that he's taken a realistic approach to AAU membership and put it on the back burner in favor of pushing for a Comprehensive Cancer Center designation for the medical school, which is a much more realistic goal for UC right now. And obviously, this is largely being done behind the scenes and not through boastful tweets about what is certainly right around the corner......right up until the moment that we find out it wasn't.

Well said. Bolded, this is a critical gateway for our institution and I believe is articulated as such in UC's current comprehensive campaign for private support. It's more achievable than AAU membership, which is more akin to getting voted into a country club.

Few of us here could provide the full financial support needed for that cancer project but for alumni and friends on Banter, participation by giving at any level is important. For Ohioans, that can be as simple as going online and ordering a UC license plate (I saw far too many for OSU this weekend visiting family in northeast OH). For others, a gift through the telefund or online for your college or alumni association or UCATS makes an impact. Large numbers of small gifts have been another avenue to empowering many of our major public research peers.

I won't dismiss AAU membership to that degree; that should always be the number one, long term institutional goal for UC. That being said, though, I've often said on here that UC was too far off in many of the hard and soft metrics to be a final candidate--not to mention that anyone with a knowledge of the situation knew that Utah was next public in. UC needs to really strengthen its core Arts & Sciences departments: not only stronger physics and chemistry but also stronger history and political science departments. Georgia Tech's admission was delayed for years, not because the AAU is a country club, but because they were viewed as too one-dimensional and found lacking in many of the soft metrics that, while not of primary importance, are absolutely considered in the overall package. Ono knew that, yet he kept tweeting that it was just around the corner. And when it wasn't and prominent political and business leaders called him on the carpet, he told them the absolute lie that OSU had lined up a Big Ten block to blackball UC, something that immediately got back to Columbus.

I think you see the positive change in the relationship with OSU under Pinto in the fact that the first Bearcat and Buckeye Day at the statehouse came about after Ono had hit the road. What will come of this more constructive relationship, I don't know. It, however, can't be worse than what Ono accomplished with his poke a stick in their eye approach.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2020 01:18 PM by Bearcat 1985.)
07-27-2020 10:12 AM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
 
07-28-2020 06:38 AM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-27-2020 07:37 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 10:16 AM)ZCat Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 04:01 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 02:06 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 09:55 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  The WSU thing is interesting. UC can't "win," but if it pursues a conciliatory non-competitive path with OSU (the opposite of what Ono would do), it can end up in a constructive collaboration where it doesn't lose. If I take off the black and red glasses for a moment, I think it's up to UC to show the good faith here and demonstrate to OSU that it can be a constructive partner rather than a rival. Ono did everything he could to throw gasoline on the relationship and then dance around with a zippo in his hand, but with him gone and a new OSU President coming in, there is a window to take a different path.

Spot on we should genuflect to the God of OSU and hope for some crumbs from them.

No, but we should recognize the god damned 800 pound gorilla in the room and try to avoid poking a stick at it. Attempting to find some common ground and collaboration with them on something like taking over WSU is not genuflecting and hoping for crumbs. It's smart, strategic thinking. Or we could take Ono's path and poke that stick and make it an us versus them proposition, and when the state turns around and inevitably gives full control of WSU to the school that has built up a century of political capital in every county and town in the state, we can then sit in our I-275 bubble and complain about how unfair everything is.

UC's problem, as I've said a hundred times, is not OSU pushing UC down. It's half a dozen other state schools pulling UC back because they think it's their god given right to take a shot at the throne.

I really enjoy reading peoples insights. Thanks! So sometimes people in academia are very sheltered, and in their own bubble. Maybe out of touch at times. Is there anyone at UC that has broad thinking? Someone who can look at it as a strategic strategy as you have mentioned?

Do they use outside consultants? Or basically the board of trustees who made of wealthy business people who may be experts in their own area with a strong understanding of business though? Is it just Pinto’s vision or do they really have a strong team looking at a 20 and 30 year plan?

Good question. Most of it comes up from five, ten, twenty year plans drawn up by an administration (with or without outside consultants) and then put to the BoT for approval. I'd assume the President has a large amount of influence but not an overriding amount as many areas of the university would have input.

What's pleased me under Pinto is that this appears to be done on a much more quiet, professional basis than it was by Ono. I know for a fact that he's taken a realistic approach to AAU membership and put it on the back burner in favor of pushing for a Comprehensive Cancer Center designation for the medical school, which is a much more realistic goal for UC right now. And obviously, this is largely being done behind the scenes and not through boastful tweets about what is certainly right around the corner......right up until the moment that we find out it wasn't.

Thanks!!
 
07-28-2020 11:07 PM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-27-2020 10:12 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 09:36 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 07:37 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 10:16 AM)ZCat Wrote:  
(07-25-2020 04:01 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  No, but we should recognize the god damned 800 pound gorilla in the room and try to avoid poking a stick at it. Attempting to find some common ground and collaboration with them on something like taking over WSU is not genuflecting and hoping for crumbs. It's smart, strategic thinking. Or we could take Ono's path and poke that stick and make it an us versus them proposition, and when the state turns around and inevitably gives full control of WSU to the school that has built up a century of political capital in every county and town in the state, we can then sit in our I-275 bubble and complain about how unfair everything is.

UC's problem, as I've said a hundred times, is not OSU pushing UC down. It's half a dozen other state schools pulling UC back because they think it's their god given right to take a shot at the throne.

I really enjoy reading peoples insights. Thanks! So sometimes people in academia are very sheltered, and in their own bubble. Maybe out of touch at times. Is there anyone at UC that has broad thinking? Someone who can look at it as a strategic strategy as you have mentioned?

Do they use outside consultants? Or basically the board of trustees who made of wealthy business people who may be experts in their own area with a strong understanding of business though? Is it just Pinto’s vision or do they really have a strong team looking at a 20 and 30 year plan?

Good question. Most of it comes up from five, ten, twenty year plans drawn up by an administration (with or without outside consultants) and then put to the BoT for approval. I'd assume the President has a large amount of influence but not an overriding amount as many areas of the university would have input.

What's pleased me under Pinto is that this appears to be done on a much more quiet, professional basis than it was by Ono. I know for a fact that he's taken a realistic approach to AAU membership and put it on the back burner in favor of pushing for a Comprehensive Cancer Center designation for the medical school, which is a much more realistic goal for UC right now. And obviously, this is largely being done behind the scenes and not through boastful tweets about what is certainly right around the corner......right up until the moment that we find out it wasn't.

Well said. Bolded, this is a critical gateway for our institution and I believe is articulated as such in UC's current comprehensive campaign for private support. It's more achievable than AAU membership, which is more akin to getting voted into a country club.

Few of us here could provide the full financial support needed for that cancer project but for alumni and friends on Banter, participation by giving at any level is important. For Ohioans, that can be as simple as going online and ordering a UC license plate (I saw far too many for OSU this weekend visiting family in northeast OH). For others, a gift through the telefund or online for your college or alumni association or UCATS makes an impact. Large numbers of small gifts have been another avenue to empowering many of our major public research peers.

I won't dismiss AAU membership to that degree; that should always be the number one, long term institutional goal for UC. That being said, though, I've often said on here that UC was too far off in many of the hard and soft metrics to be a final candidate--not to mention that anyone with a knowledge of the situation knew that Utah was next public in. UC needs to really strengthen its core Arts & Sciences departments: not only stronger physics and chemistry but also stronger history and political science departments. Georgia Tech's admission was delayed for years, not because the AAU is a country club, but because they were viewed as too one-dimensional and found lacking in many of the soft metrics that, while not of primary importance, are absolutely considered in the overall package. Ono knew that, yet he kept tweeting that it was just around the corner. And when it wasn't and prominent political and business leaders called him on the carpet, he told them the absolute lie that OSU had lined up a Big Ten block to blackball UC, something that immediately got back to Columbus.

I think you see the positive change in the relationship with OSU under Pinto in the fact that the first Bearcat and Buckeye Day at the statehouse came about after Ono had hit the road. What will come of this more constructive relationship, I don't know. It, however, can't be worse than what Ono accomplished with his poke a stick in their eye approach.

I thought that the Bearcats and Buckeyes day at the statehouse started under Ono but I'm probably wrong. I didn't pay much attention to when it started. I was wondering if it was happening this year but obviously not now. I'm glad that the partnership has started though. I'd rather try to work with OSU than have them screwing us over like they were when Gordon Gee was there.

I am excited for the push for Comprehensive Cancer Center. Would be big for the university.
 
07-29-2020 06:19 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #193
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-29-2020 06:19 AM)Cattidude Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 10:12 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 09:36 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 07:37 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-26-2020 10:16 AM)ZCat Wrote:  I really enjoy reading peoples insights. Thanks! So sometimes people in academia are very sheltered, and in their own bubble. Maybe out of touch at times. Is there anyone at UC that has broad thinking? Someone who can look at it as a strategic strategy as you have mentioned?

Do they use outside consultants? Or basically the board of trustees who made of wealthy business people who may be experts in their own area with a strong understanding of business though? Is it just Pinto’s vision or do they really have a strong team looking at a 20 and 30 year plan?

Good question. Most of it comes up from five, ten, twenty year plans drawn up by an administration (with or without outside consultants) and then put to the BoT for approval. I'd assume the President has a large amount of influence but not an overriding amount as many areas of the university would have input.

What's pleased me under Pinto is that this appears to be done on a much more quiet, professional basis than it was by Ono. I know for a fact that he's taken a realistic approach to AAU membership and put it on the back burner in favor of pushing for a Comprehensive Cancer Center designation for the medical school, which is a much more realistic goal for UC right now. And obviously, this is largely being done behind the scenes and not through boastful tweets about what is certainly right around the corner......right up until the moment that we find out it wasn't.

Well said. Bolded, this is a critical gateway for our institution and I believe is articulated as such in UC's current comprehensive campaign for private support. It's more achievable than AAU membership, which is more akin to getting voted into a country club.

Few of us here could provide the full financial support needed for that cancer project but for alumni and friends on Banter, participation by giving at any level is important. For Ohioans, that can be as simple as going online and ordering a UC license plate (I saw far too many for OSU this weekend visiting family in northeast OH). For others, a gift through the telefund or online for your college or alumni association or UCATS makes an impact. Large numbers of small gifts have been another avenue to empowering many of our major public research peers.

I won't dismiss AAU membership to that degree; that should always be the number one, long term institutional goal for UC. That being said, though, I've often said on here that UC was too far off in many of the hard and soft metrics to be a final candidate--not to mention that anyone with a knowledge of the situation knew that Utah was next public in. UC needs to really strengthen its core Arts & Sciences departments: not only stronger physics and chemistry but also stronger history and political science departments. Georgia Tech's admission was delayed for years, not because the AAU is a country club, but because they were viewed as too one-dimensional and found lacking in many of the soft metrics that, while not of primary importance, are absolutely considered in the overall package. Ono knew that, yet he kept tweeting that it was just around the corner. And when it wasn't and prominent political and business leaders called him on the carpet, he told them the absolute lie that OSU had lined up a Big Ten block to blackball UC, something that immediately got back to Columbus.

I think you see the positive change in the relationship with OSU under Pinto in the fact that the first Bearcat and Buckeye Day at the statehouse came about after Ono had hit the road. What will come of this more constructive relationship, I don't know. It, however, can't be worse than what Ono accomplished with his poke a stick in their eye approach.

I thought that the Bearcats and Buckeyes day at the statehouse started under Ono but I'm probably wrong. I didn't pay much attention to when it started. I was wondering if it was happening this year but obviously not now. I'm glad that the partnership has started though. I'd rather try to work with OSU than have them screwing us over like they were when Gordon Gee was there.

I am excited for the push for Comprehensive Cancer Center. Would be big for the university.

The first one was a couple of months after Ono left. It may have been planned in his last few months in office, but he was already on his way out the door, and I'm not sure that OSU would have agreed to partner with us on it or anything else had he been sticking around. "Multiple Flagships" 03-banghead was probably the most tone-deaf, ignorant of the history thing that Ono could have done. It set relations with OSU back years and alienated the other university Presidents who clearly recognized that Ono was really angling for co-flagships and just trying to use them as pawns, all the while its only accomplishment was in getting the Governor to go on record as saying it would never happen.

CCC is huge. What we have working against us is that Ohio already has two, but UC Med has definitely put itself in a position to be a serious and worthy candidate. Also, this is still the much more logical area for UC to put it efforts towards right now. And, if we get it, that's just one more box checked off towards AAU membership. Though I can't stress enough that UC needs to seriously strengthen the core Arts & Sciences to have a real shot down the road.
 
07-29-2020 06:46 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #194
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-29-2020 06:46 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 06:19 AM)Cattidude Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 10:12 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 09:36 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 07:37 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Good question. Most of it comes up from five, ten, twenty year plans drawn up by an administration (with or without outside consultants) and then put to the BoT for approval. I'd assume the President has a large amount of influence but not an overriding amount as many areas of the university would have input.

What's pleased me under Pinto is that this appears to be done on a much more quiet, professional basis than it was by Ono. I know for a fact that he's taken a realistic approach to AAU membership and put it on the back burner in favor of pushing for a Comprehensive Cancer Center designation for the medical school, which is a much more realistic goal for UC right now. And obviously, this is largely being done behind the scenes and not through boastful tweets about what is certainly right around the corner......right up until the moment that we find out it wasn't.

Well said. Bolded, this is a critical gateway for our institution and I believe is articulated as such in UC's current comprehensive campaign for private support. It's more achievable than AAU membership, which is more akin to getting voted into a country club.

Few of us here could provide the full financial support needed for that cancer project but for alumni and friends on Banter, participation by giving at any level is important. For Ohioans, that can be as simple as going online and ordering a UC license plate (I saw far too many for OSU this weekend visiting family in northeast OH). For others, a gift through the telefund or online for your college or alumni association or UCATS makes an impact. Large numbers of small gifts have been another avenue to empowering many of our major public research peers.

I won't dismiss AAU membership to that degree; that should always be the number one, long term institutional goal for UC. That being said, though, I've often said on here that UC was too far off in many of the hard and soft metrics to be a final candidate--not to mention that anyone with a knowledge of the situation knew that Utah was next public in. UC needs to really strengthen its core Arts & Sciences departments: not only stronger physics and chemistry but also stronger history and political science departments. Georgia Tech's admission was delayed for years, not because the AAU is a country club, but because they were viewed as too one-dimensional and found lacking in many of the soft metrics that, while not of primary importance, are absolutely considered in the overall package. Ono knew that, yet he kept tweeting that it was just around the corner. And when it wasn't and prominent political and business leaders called him on the carpet, he told them the absolute lie that OSU had lined up a Big Ten block to blackball UC, something that immediately got back to Columbus.

I think you see the positive change in the relationship with OSU under Pinto in the fact that the first Bearcat and Buckeye Day at the statehouse came about after Ono had hit the road. What will come of this more constructive relationship, I don't know. It, however, can't be worse than what Ono accomplished with his poke a stick in their eye approach.

I thought that the Bearcats and Buckeyes day at the statehouse started under Ono but I'm probably wrong. I didn't pay much attention to when it started. I was wondering if it was happening this year but obviously not now. I'm glad that the partnership has started though. I'd rather try to work with OSU than have them screwing us over like they were when Gordon Gee was there.

I am excited for the push for Comprehensive Cancer Center. Would be big for the university.

The first one was a couple of months after Ono left. It may have been planned in his last few months in office, but he was already on his way out the door, and I'm not sure that OSU would have agreed to partner with us on it or anything else had he been sticking around. "Multiple Flagships" 03-banghead was probably the most tone-deaf, ignorant of the history thing that Ono could have done. It set relations with OSU back years and alienated the other university Presidents who clearly recognized that Ono was really angling for co-flagships and just trying to use them as pawns, all the while its only accomplishment was in getting the Governor to go on record as saying it would never happen.

CCC is huge. What we have working against us is that Ohio already has two, but UC Med has definitely put itself in a position to be a serious and worthy candidate. Also, this is still the much more logical area for UC to put it efforts towards right now. And, if we get it, that's just one more box checked off towards AAU membership. Though I can't stress enough that UC needs to seriously strengthen the core Arts & Sciences to have a real shot down the road.

I don't know how much it matters that Ohio already has two. Southern California has 5. Philadelphia, Houston, and Chicago have 2. New York City has 3.

Plus, there's no NCI-designated CCC in Kentucky or West Virginia. UK has a NCI Cancer Center (not comprehensive), but if we're counting those then NYC has 4 and Southern California has 7.

I'm just guessing though.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-29-2020 03:56 PM by Captain Bearcat.)
07-29-2020 03:56 PM
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bearcatmill Offline
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Post: #195
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-29-2020 06:46 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 06:19 AM)Cattidude Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 10:12 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 09:36 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 07:37 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Good question. Most of it comes up from five, ten, twenty year plans drawn up by an administration (with or without outside consultants) and then put to the BoT for approval. I'd assume the President has a large amount of influence but not an overriding amount as many areas of the university would have input.

What's pleased me under Pinto is that this appears to be done on a much more quiet, professional basis than it was by Ono. I know for a fact that he's taken a realistic approach to AAU membership and put it on the back burner in favor of pushing for a Comprehensive Cancer Center designation for the medical school, which is a much more realistic goal for UC right now. And obviously, this is largely being done behind the scenes and not through boastful tweets about what is certainly right around the corner......right up until the moment that we find out it wasn't.

Well said. Bolded, this is a critical gateway for our institution and I believe is articulated as such in UC's current comprehensive campaign for private support. It's more achievable than AAU membership, which is more akin to getting voted into a country club.

Few of us here could provide the full financial support needed for that cancer project but for alumni and friends on Banter, participation by giving at any level is important. For Ohioans, that can be as simple as going online and ordering a UC license plate (I saw far too many for OSU this weekend visiting family in northeast OH). For others, a gift through the telefund or online for your college or alumni association or UCATS makes an impact. Large numbers of small gifts have been another avenue to empowering many of our major public research peers.

I won't dismiss AAU membership to that degree; that should always be the number one, long term institutional goal for UC. That being said, though, I've often said on here that UC was too far off in many of the hard and soft metrics to be a final candidate--not to mention that anyone with a knowledge of the situation knew that Utah was next public in. UC needs to really strengthen its core Arts & Sciences departments: not only stronger physics and chemistry but also stronger history and political science departments. Georgia Tech's admission was delayed for years, not because the AAU is a country club, but because they were viewed as too one-dimensional and found lacking in many of the soft metrics that, while not of primary importance, are absolutely considered in the overall package. Ono knew that, yet he kept tweeting that it was just around the corner. And when it wasn't and prominent political and business leaders called him on the carpet, he told them the absolute lie that OSU had lined up a Big Ten block to blackball UC, something that immediately got back to Columbus.

I think you see the positive change in the relationship with OSU under Pinto in the fact that the first Bearcat and Buckeye Day at the statehouse came about after Ono had hit the road. What will come of this more constructive relationship, I don't know. It, however, can't be worse than what Ono accomplished with his poke a stick in their eye approach.

I thought that the Bearcats and Buckeyes day at the statehouse started under Ono but I'm probably wrong. I didn't pay much attention to when it started. I was wondering if it was happening this year but obviously not now. I'm glad that the partnership has started though. I'd rather try to work with OSU than have them screwing us over like they were when Gordon Gee was there.

I am excited for the push for Comprehensive Cancer Center. Would be big for the university.

The first one was a couple of months after Ono left. It may have been planned in his last few months in office, but he was already on his way out the door, and I'm not sure that OSU would have agreed to partner with us on it or anything else had he been sticking around. "Multiple Flagships" 03-banghead was probably the most tone-deaf, ignorant of the history thing that Ono could have done. It set relations with OSU back years and alienated the other university Presidents who clearly recognized that Ono was really angling for co-flagships and just trying to use them as pawns, all the while its only accomplishment was in getting the Governor to go on record as saying it would never happen.

CCC is huge. What we have working against us is that Ohio already has two, but UC Med has definitely put itself in a position to be a serious and worthy candidate. Also, this is still the much more logical area for UC to put it efforts towards right now. And, if we get it, that's just one more box checked off towards AAU membership. Though I can't stress enough that UC needs to seriously strengthen the core Arts & Sciences to have a real shot down the road.

Not sure how much or little input Ono had on the Bearcat/buckeye day, at the statehouse. Alumni Advocacy group, at the time under Alex Coorey, put this together. Alex worked out of UC's Government Relations office in Columbus. Greg Vehr is ahead of this department. I believe both spearheaded the day in Columbus. Both are great to work with. Since Alex has moved onto other endeavors, I have not heard much from the advocacy group.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2020 11:57 AM by bearcatmill.)
07-30-2020 11:56 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #196
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-30-2020 11:56 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 06:46 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-29-2020 06:19 AM)Cattidude Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 10:12 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(07-27-2020 09:36 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Well said. Bolded, this is a critical gateway for our institution and I believe is articulated as such in UC's current comprehensive campaign for private support. It's more achievable than AAU membership, which is more akin to getting voted into a country club.

Few of us here could provide the full financial support needed for that cancer project but for alumni and friends on Banter, participation by giving at any level is important. For Ohioans, that can be as simple as going online and ordering a UC license plate (I saw far too many for OSU this weekend visiting family in northeast OH). For others, a gift through the telefund or online for your college or alumni association or UCATS makes an impact. Large numbers of small gifts have been another avenue to empowering many of our major public research peers.

I won't dismiss AAU membership to that degree; that should always be the number one, long term institutional goal for UC. That being said, though, I've often said on here that UC was too far off in many of the hard and soft metrics to be a final candidate--not to mention that anyone with a knowledge of the situation knew that Utah was next public in. UC needs to really strengthen its core Arts & Sciences departments: not only stronger physics and chemistry but also stronger history and political science departments. Georgia Tech's admission was delayed for years, not because the AAU is a country club, but because they were viewed as too one-dimensional and found lacking in many of the soft metrics that, while not of primary importance, are absolutely considered in the overall package. Ono knew that, yet he kept tweeting that it was just around the corner. And when it wasn't and prominent political and business leaders called him on the carpet, he told them the absolute lie that OSU had lined up a Big Ten block to blackball UC, something that immediately got back to Columbus.

I think you see the positive change in the relationship with OSU under Pinto in the fact that the first Bearcat and Buckeye Day at the statehouse came about after Ono had hit the road. What will come of this more constructive relationship, I don't know. It, however, can't be worse than what Ono accomplished with his poke a stick in their eye approach.

I thought that the Bearcats and Buckeyes day at the statehouse started under Ono but I'm probably wrong. I didn't pay much attention to when it started. I was wondering if it was happening this year but obviously not now. I'm glad that the partnership has started though. I'd rather try to work with OSU than have them screwing us over like they were when Gordon Gee was there.

I am excited for the push for Comprehensive Cancer Center. Would be big for the university.

The first one was a couple of months after Ono left. It may have been planned in his last few months in office, but he was already on his way out the door, and I'm not sure that OSU would have agreed to partner with us on it or anything else had he been sticking around. "Multiple Flagships" 03-banghead was probably the most tone-deaf, ignorant of the history thing that Ono could have done. It set relations with OSU back years and alienated the other university Presidents who clearly recognized that Ono was really angling for co-flagships and just trying to use them as pawns, all the while its only accomplishment was in getting the Governor to go on record as saying it would never happen.

CCC is huge. What we have working against us is that Ohio already has two, but UC Med has definitely put itself in a position to be a serious and worthy candidate. Also, this is still the much more logical area for UC to put it efforts towards right now. And, if we get it, that's just one more box checked off towards AAU membership. Though I can't stress enough that UC needs to seriously strengthen the core Arts & Sciences to have a real shot down the road.

Not sure how much or little input Ono had on the Bearcat/buckeye day, at the statehouse. Alumni Advocacy group, at the time under Alex Coorey, put this together. Alex worked out of UC's Government Relations office in Columbus. Greg Vehr is ahead of this department. I believe both spearheaded the day in Columbus. Both are great to work with. Since Alex has moved onto other endeavors, I have not heard much from the advocacy group.

If he's anything like his children were, I'd trust him to work his ass off for us.
 
07-30-2020 12:29 PM
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Cataclysmo Offline
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Post: #197
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
So I have a dumb question. The idea of an endowment is to provide long-term stability and a resovoir for future commitments and the prolonged success of a University, correct? And we also hear about how endowments help stabilize universities through economic fluctuations and thereby provide a relative stability in the short term. As far as I understand it (I don't, at all), endowments are somewhat of an abstract concept that ensures Universities utilize and maintain commitments from donors.

So my dumb question is--how much does UC's recent push for the billion-dollar endowment (now up to 1.5b) factor in to the current Covid predicament? BearcatMan has talked about how schools with larger endowments are, of course, better positioned to absorb the financial blows that will follow, but how, specifically, does the endowment that we have help?

I ask because there's growing concern amongst students about UC's handling of tuition and cost of attendance fees for this upcoming semester, as we talked about. I wouldn't expect UC to just drop tuition unilaterally and then cover the difference with their endowment (which would be tremendously expensive in it's own regard), but I'm confused as to what the point of an endowment is if not to help 1. Faculty maintain their salaries/positions and 2. Help students receive a fair and equitable education relative to costs.
 
07-30-2020 12:46 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #198
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(07-30-2020 12:46 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  So I have a dumb question. The idea of an endowment is to provide long-term stability and a resovoir for future commitments and the prolonged success of a University, correct? And we also hear about how endowments help stabilize universities through economic fluctuations and thereby provide a relative stability in the short term. As far as I understand it (I don't, at all), endowments are somewhat of an abstract concept that ensures Universities utilize and maintain commitments from donors.

So my dumb question is--how much does UC's recent push for the billion-dollar endowment (now up to 1.5b) factor in to the current Covid predicament? BearcatMan has talked about how schools with larger endowments are, of course, better positioned to absorb the financial blows that will follow, but how, specifically, does the endowment that we have help?

I ask because there's growing concern amongst students about UC's handling of tuition and cost of attendance fees for this upcoming semester, as we talked about. I wouldn't expect UC to just drop tuition unilaterally and then cover the difference with their endowment (which would be tremendously expensive in it's own regard), but I'm confused as to what the point of an endowment is if not to help 1. Faculty maintain their salaries/positions and 2. Help students receive a fair and equitable education relative to costs.

Here's a simple example: Let's say that UC gets an average of $100 million in donations from alumni each year. What can they do with it?

Option 1: spend $100 million this year
Option 2: invest it and spend $4 million every year forever (average returns on endowments are 4%)

If you do option 2 for 25 years, you end up with $100 million every year in interest. Of course, in real life there's inflation and growth in donations, so it all ends up evening out in terms of real economic value.

There's two big advantages to choosing the endowment route:
1) Long-term budgetary certainty. Donations have big year-to-year swings. But investments in faculty (which is by far any university's biggest expense) are long-term and can't be reversed if donations are too low (like 2009 or 2020). If you spend donations as they come in, then during a recession you have to lower scholarship funds (the 2nd biggest expense) or lay off most of your secretaries and academic advisors (the 3rd biggest expense) and/or cut research to the bone and endanger long-term research projects.
2) Short-term budgetary discipline. If you have a big donation year, the administrators who are "up or out" types might waste it. I've seen this happen even with professors - a professor/center director at my last school took over the center's account which had several hundred thousand dollars in it that had been donated, and in just a few years he spent half of it on data he probably didn't need and the other half on lunches and conference travel, then he took another job.

The point of an endowment is to never touch the principle. If you're allowed to draw down the endowment for need-based scholarships during a depression, then you're also allowed to use it for pretty much anything the dean/president in charge of that particular endowment wants. That defeats the whole point of using the endowment to enforce budgetary discipline.

I've never actually worked at an endowment, but that's my understanding of it. Anyone else want to chip in?
 
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2020 01:35 PM by Captain Bearcat.)
07-30-2020 01:28 PM
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Cataclysmo Offline
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
Interesting. So if I'm understanding this correctly, even though an endowment offers your first stated advantage, it's still possible UC could lay off staff, cut salaries of professors, cut research stimulus, etc.? And an endowment just makes that much less likely?
 
07-30-2020 01:49 PM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
Don’t think the endowment makes it less or more likely.

The endowment is largely intended as an investment based income stream.
 
07-30-2020 02:08 PM
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