(06-03-2020 06:27 AM)MercerFan Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 12:27 PM)brock20 Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 11:43 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(06-01-2020 09:00 PM)brock20 Wrote:  [quote='BucDoctor' pid='16842959' dateline='1591056154']

No need to get into turmoil about this. ETSU isn't going to go to a conference that increases travel cost for all of its sports. ETSU isn't going to gut their athletics to support a single sport (football) ala App State.

And finally to want to be in a basketball conference with 1-28 Kennesaw NET ranking next to last is not understandable to me at all.

ETSU won’t stay in the socon without Chattanooga and Western. Chattanooga does not want to stay in the socon. They want to be in a conference with JSU and JSU doesn’t want to be in the OVC. If you don’t think this has some legs you haven’t been paying attention.

Chattanooga and Western Carolina will drag ETSU back into the ASUN? Absolutely, sure bet — can’t wait.

You think ETSU would stay in the Socon without Chatt and/or Western? I think people on here get caught up in the name of the conference. This isnt the socon we left.

That list above has exactly 1 team from the old Asun days? KSU.

It's an interesting thought. That UTC and Western could control ETSU's destiny. I think I agree with your statement, it's just hard to imagine. ETSU getting forced to join a league that was created by the ASUN. What a world that would be. I like the uniqueness of the SoCon's balance. 4 public , 4 private, 2 military. I could understand if ETSU wanted a fully public league, but I would think they would join any other league in the universe before one controlled by the very league they ran away from. It's 2020 though, crazy times!
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Trying to visualize the ASUN and ETSU together is like visualizing Tennessee changing its Volunteers name and Orange colors.

(06-03-2020 05:24 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Trying to visualize the ASUN and ETSU together is like visualizing Tennessee changing its Volunteers name and Orange colors.

How come? I wasn’t a big fan of the Asun but it was more because of not having football and the teams. Do we have any proof that the ETSU brass weren’t happy with the administration of the Asun? If what is rumored to happen does it would be a lot of teams who share a lot in common with ETSU.

(06-03-2020 07:17 PM)brock20 Wrote:  

(06-03-2020 05:24 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Trying to visualize the ASUN and ETSU together is like visualizing Tennessee changing its Volunteers name and Orange colors.

How come? I wasn’t a big fan of the Asun but it was more because of not having football and the teams. Do we have any proof that the ETSU brass weren’t happy with the administration of the Asun? If what is rumored to happen does it would be a lot of teams who share a lot in common with ETSU.

A few reasons I could think of that would give me pause... A brand new conference could fail, or be a "grass was greener on the other side" situation. The problem with that is that the SoCon will not be positioned to take back ETSU if they left. So if the UAC failed and there was a mad rush to "refill" the OVC, Horizon, Big South, etc... ETSU could be left out in the cold with no home. That's a large scale risk.

UTC, Western, and ETSU effectively control the future of the SoCon. If they ever left for any conference, it would most likely shift the SoCon to a private school league. So ETSU could kill their SoCon home, and if they do then they better hope the UAC works. What do we know about ASUN controlled conferences? They have a hard time keeping members. What happens when Jax State or Chattanooga becomes unhappy with the UAC and bolts overnight to the OVC (like Belmont did to the surprise of the entire ASUN). Then the domino effect begins and teams start scrambling. It's not likely, but something management would have to consider. The ASUN and loyalty don't go hand and hand.

Another smaller scale problem is being in the same basketball league with Kennesaw State. ETSU is currently at an elite level and 2 games a year with 1-28 Kennesaw is an at-large killer. ETSU was a legit bubble team this year and deserved an at-large if they lost in the SoCon finals.

Bottom line is this...

And I'm not going to pretend I know exactly how this all plays out.

(And all this is even more important since CV19 with travel)

The UAC, while being a split off of the ASUN, will be it's own conference. It will not be controlled by anyone other than the schools in it.

I dont know if ETSU or Western Carolina will be part of it. I and others brought these names up because of Chattanooga. If Chattanooga leaves, will ETSU follow? I would like it, but that's from a UNA prospective.

It's easy to jump to a conclusion, at least for most, that the "core" (for lack of a better word) group will be UNA, KSU, JSU and Chattanooga. Well, that's great... we need 4 more. You tell me who makes sense...

I have had several conversations about this subject with several different officials. One from Chattanooga, UNA of course, JSU and the Commissioner of the ASUN, Ted Gumbart. What tells me a lot is, none of the school officials will say much about anything with this deal, but they do know what it is. That brings me to this, officials from both JSU and Chattanooga say almost the same thing, and I'm paraphrasing, There is no reason a certain group of like minded schools, so close together, shouldn't be in the same conference. There is less reason they should be in 3 different conferences.

But anyway, the purpose of this conference is simple.
8 like minded state funded schools.
Tight geographic footprint for less travel for the student athlete and fans.
Great rivals and potential rivalries.
Save money for the schools and possibly earn more money.



I dont pretend to know so I'll ask yall, how much money does the socon pay out to each individual school per year?

Reason I ask, is just cause of number of schools. The UAC wants 8. That means more money per school and the opportunity to schedule more money games in the OOC if need be.

My preferred UAC make up would be

UNA, JSU, KSU, Chattanooga, ETSU, Western Carolina, EKU and Murray State.

But whatever, just pointing out some pros... I dont see many cons, but that's may not be your prospective...


Have a good day...

lion1983, you definitely have more information than most (if not everyone) on the subject. I think it's fun to speculate. My last post I was thinking from the point of view of ETSU upper management weighing the pros and cons. If ETSU (and UTC, WCU) were to consider the UAC, or any other conference, they'd have the biggest decision in the history of their athletic programs on the line. It's one thing to make a move when you could return "home" if things don't go well. The SoCon would drastically change, and not be able to welcome back the public schools if they left. That adds a whole new level of stress to the decision. Add in the disaster situation of the UAC folding and you'd have to have some exit plans. That could result in ETSU ending up in the Big South or something much worse than the current situation. It's not a likely scenario, but it's one they would be crazy not to debate/discuss.

Quote:The UAC, while being a split off of the ASUN, will be it's own conference. It will not be controlled by anyone other than the schools in it."

I disagree with this statement. They will obviously have a front office like any other conference that will control things. This is a creation of the ASUN and will have the ASUN's fingerprints all over it. Why would they go to all this trouble to create a league and then get none of the benefit? They aren't out here working as a charity.

(06-07-2020 04:34 AM)lion1983 Wrote:  Bottom line is this...

And I'm not going to pretend I know exactly how this all plays out.

(And all this is even more important since CV19 with travel)

The UAC, while being a split off of the ASUN, will be it's own conference. It will not be controlled by anyone other than the schools in it.

I dont know if ETSU or Western Carolina will be part of it. I and others brought these names up because of Chattanooga. If Chattanooga leaves, will ETSU follow? I would like it, but that's from a UNA prospective.

It's easy to jump to a conclusion, at least for most, that the "core" (for lack of a better word) group will be UNA, KSU, JSU and Chattanooga. Well, that's great... we need 4 more. You tell me who makes sense...

I have had several conversations about this subject with several different officials. One from Chattanooga, UNA of course, JSU and the Commissioner of the ASUN, Ted Gumbart. What tells me a lot is, none of the school officials will say much about anything with this deal, but they do know what it is. That brings me to this, officials from both JSU and Chattanooga say almost the same thing, and I'm paraphrasing, There is no reason a certain group of like minded schools, so close together, shouldn't be in the same conference. There is less reason they should be in 3 different conferences.

But anyway, the purpose of this conference is simple.
8 like minded state funded schools.
Tight geographic footprint for less travel for the student athlete and fans.
Great rivals and potential rivalries.
Save money for the schools and possibly earn more money.



I dont pretend to know so I'll ask yall, how much money does the socon pay out to each individual school per year?

Reason I ask, is just cause of number of schools. The UAC wants 8. That means more money per school and the opportunity to schedule more money games in the OOC if need be.

My preferred UAC make up would be

UNA, JSU, KSU, Chattanooga, ETSU, Western Carolina, EKU and Murray State.

But whatever, just pointing out some pros... I dont see many cons, but that's may not be your prospective...


Have a good day...

Welcome to the discussion Lion. This topic has me thinking so I did some research. A quick search led me to the CAFI Database from The Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics (link - I hope) http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/ where I found these 2018 numbers.

Some on our board would love for ETSU to join an off shoot of the Sun Belt's (Eastern Most Teams) which includes App St, Coastal Carolina, Ga Southern, Ga State, Troy, and South Alabama.

Others would like to form a new conference made up of primarily like minded (state sponsored institutions) in a relatively close geographic footprint such as Austin Peay, Eastern KY, Jacksonville St, Kennesaw, Morehead St, Murray St, North Alabama, TN Tech, TN State, UTC, and Western Carolina

So we have a 2 groups here with a lot in common including geography, similar sports (football) offered, and state sponsored institutions. There is also 1 big difference in the 2 groups (athletic budgets). Using athletic department numbers from 2018 the first group (I'll call it the Sun Belt group) averaged 32.8 million, while the second group (I'll call it the FCS group) averaged 16.6 million.

The difference in the 2 groups is staggering. Where do we (ETSU) fit? As of 2018 our expenses were 22.8 million so I guess you could say we are in the middle. We are not far enough away that we could never hope to fund our programs to the Sun Belt group level (Joe and The Boss could always sell a few more automobiles), while looking at the FCS group we would be at the top portion of this group trailing only Kennesaw who is at 25.8 million

Some other schools of interest 2018 athletic expense budgets were:

App State 36.8 million
Kennesaw 25.8 million
ETSU 22.9 million
UTC 18.8 million
Western Carolina 14.2 million
Citadel 17.6 million
VMI 13.9 million
UNC-Greensboro 17.4 million (no football)
Coll of Charleston 21.6 million (no football)
Fla Gulf Coast (15.8 million (no football)

*note North Alabama was not in the report, nor any private schools such as Furman

BaseballPops, that's really interesting numbers on the public programs. I can't believe WCU and VMI have football with such small budgets. WCU is noticeably below ETSU, they almost don't seem compatible aside from being public. UTC also nearly 5 million above WCU. Kennesaw spending 25.8 million with a basketball program like that? I hope all that funding is going to football! If ETSU can make the jump up to the Sun Belt group that would be amazing, I'd be really happy for you guys.

(06-07-2020 08:50 AM)BaseballPops Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 04:34 AM)lion1983 Wrote:  Bottom line is this...

And I'm not going to pretend I know exactly how this all plays out.

(And all this is even more important since CV19 with travel)

The UAC, while being a split off of the ASUN, will be it's own conference. It will not be controlled by anyone other than the schools in it.

I dont know if ETSU or Western Carolina will be part of it. I and others brought these names up because of Chattanooga. If Chattanooga leaves, will ETSU follow? I would like it, but that's from a UNA prospective.

It's easy to jump to a conclusion, at least for most, that the "core" (for lack of a better word) group will be UNA, KSU, JSU and Chattanooga. Well, that's great... we need 4 more. You tell me who makes sense...

I have had several conversations about this subject with several different officials. One from Chattanooga, UNA of course, JSU and the Commissioner of the ASUN, Ted Gumbart. What tells me a lot is, none of the school officials will say much about anything with this deal, but they do know what it is. That brings me to this, officials from both JSU and Chattanooga say almost the same thing, and I'm paraphrasing, There is no reason a certain group of like minded schools, so close together, shouldn't be in the same conference. There is less reason they should be in 3 different conferences.

But anyway, the purpose of this conference is simple.
8 like minded state funded schools.
Tight geographic footprint for less travel for the student athlete and fans.
Great rivals and potential rivalries.
Save money for the schools and possibly earn more money.



I dont pretend to know so I'll ask yall, how much money does the socon pay out to each individual school per year?

Reason I ask, is just cause of number of schools. The UAC wants 8. That means more money per school and the opportunity to schedule more money games in the OOC if need be.

My preferred UAC make up would be

UNA, JSU, KSU, Chattanooga, ETSU, Western Carolina, EKU and Murray State.

But whatever, just pointing out some pros... I dont see many cons, but that's may not be your prospective...


Have a good day...

Welcome to the discussion Lion. This topic has me thinking so I did some research. A quick search led me to the CAFI Database from The Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics (link - I hope) http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/ where I found these 2018 numbers.

Some on our board would love for ETSU to join an off shoot of the Sun Belt's (Eastern Most Teams) which includes App St, Coastal Carolina, Ga Southern, Ga State, Troy, and South Alabama.

Others would like to form a new conference made up of primarily like minded (state sponsored institutions) in a relatively close geographic footprint such as Austin Peay, Eastern KY, Jacksonville St, Kennesaw, Morehead St, Murray St, North Alabama, TN Tech, TN State, UTC, and Western Carolina

So we have a 2 groups here with a lot in common including geography, similar sports (football) offered, and state sponsored institutions. There is also 1 big difference in the 2 groups (athletic budgets). Using athletic department numbers from 2018 the first group (I'll call it the Sun Belt group) averaged 32.8 million, while the second group (I'll call it the FCS group) averaged 16.6 million.

The difference in the 2 groups is staggering. Where do we (ETSU) fit? As of 2018 our expenses were 22.8 million so I guess you could say we are in the middle. We are not far enough away that we could never hope to fund our programs to the Sun Belt group level (Joe and The Boss could always sell a few more automobiles), while looking at the FCS group we would be at the top portion of this group trailing only Kennesaw who is at 25.8 million

Some other schools of interest 2018 athletic expense budgets were:

App State 36.8 million
Kennesaw 25.8 million
ETSU 22.9 million
UTC 18.8 million
Western Carolina 14.2 million
Citadel 17.6 million
VMI 13.9 million
UNC-Greensboro 17.4 million (no football)
Coll of Charleston 21.6 million (no football)

*note North Alabama was not in the report, nor any private schools such as Furman
Fla Gulf Coast (15.8 million (no football)

Good info...

I'm not sure what the numbers are for North Alabama at current time. I do know we are trying to get to around JSU, whatever that is. But you have to keep in mind, North Alabama is still in transition. They are seeing were to most effectively spend money and will raise budgets as time goes.

Also, there is plans for a new baseball and football stadium. Flowers Hall (basketball) just got renovated, and from what I've been told, it's going to have another stage of renovations later that will expand seating capacity.

But overall budget dont tell the whole story, some schools may have a smaller budget, but may be putting more into individual programs. Some schools offer less sports, while others offer more. Salaries may vary from coach to coach in different sports. Bla bla bla. My point is, I dont get too wound up in that kind of stuff, especially if they are all within the same realm.

Kennesaw State seems to be doing some good recruiting in basketball. They have a new coach that inherited a bad situation. I think he will make a difference. Heck, the bright side of them is, they cant get much worse. So any improvement, improves the conference.

But back to the UAC side...
I feel like the right group in this deal can be just as good or better than some lower FBS conferences. At least on fan interest, and attendance.

And I understand the ASUN fingerprints will be on this, but it will still be up to the schools in the UAC to make decisions about the conference. The schools in the ASUN will have nothing to do with that. The "Sister Conference" thing is for being partners in scheduling if need be. Meaning, for example, if a UAC school is having trouble finding enough D1 schools to schedule in any non football sport, the ASUN will find a school that can assist, and vice versa. Or if one conference play a sport the other doesn't, and you have that sport, you have an automatic home.


But I do not believe there will be a case were if Chattanooga goes, it forces ETSU to do the same. It would be nice to have both, but I dont think it is a dealbreaker.

It's just hard to see any of this happening without these 4,
UNA and KSU of course, Jacksonville State and Chattanooga.

(06-07-2020 08:59 AM)MercerFan Wrote:  BaseballPops, that's really interesting numbers on the public programs. I can't believe WCU and VMI have football with such small budgets. WCU is noticeably below ETSU, they almost don't seem compatible aside from being public. UTC also nearly 5 million above WCU. Kennesaw spending 25.8 million with a basketball program like that? I hope all that funding is going to football! If ETSU can make the jump up to the Sun Belt group that would be amazing, I'd be really happy for you guys.

Mercer I'm perfectly happy with current SoCon, and would be happy if it remained intact. It's gaining in basketball clout and the geographic footprint is spot on, but I'm afraid the way things are changing in the world of intercollegiate athletics, we are closer to having to choose than anyone may think.

(06-07-2020 10:16 AM)BaseballPops Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 08:59 AM)MercerFan Wrote:  BaseballPops, that's really interesting numbers on the public programs. I can't believe WCU and VMI have football with such small budgets. WCU is noticeably below ETSU, they almost don't seem compatible aside from being public. UTC also nearly 5 million above WCU. Kennesaw spending 25.8 million with a basketball program like that? I hope all that funding is going to football! If ETSU can make the jump up to the Sun Belt group that would be amazing, I'd be really happy for you guys.

Mercer I'm perfectly happy with current SoCon, and would be happy if it remained intact. It's gaining in basketball clout and the geographic footprint is spot on, but I'm afraid the way things are changing in the world of intercollegiate athletics, we are closer to having to choose than anyone may think.

I think Western Carolina is perfectly happy in the SoCon as well, and I don't see the administration willing to fork over the $1 million exit fee to the SoCon, as well as having to pay an entry fee of $??? (whatever) to a brand new unproven conference that may or may not survive. We'd certainly hate to see ETSU and Chattanooga depart, but both Campbell and Gardner-Webb are waiting in the wings to enter the SoCon given the opportunity (both schools have lots of potential in football). I think Western and the two military schools (both public) could live with that structure and the conference will still have a tight footprint.

Another thing, Western does not have aspirations like ETSU & UTC for movement to FBS, nor does it have the funding to make that move. However, something to remember about athletic funding, WCU athletic dollars go a lot further because of the NC Promise. NC Promise means students pay tuition of just $500 per semester for in-state students and $2,500 per semester for out-of-state students.

UNA's most recent published athletic budget according to the "Equity in Athletics" web site was $11,293,784.00

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/details

(06-08-2020 03:08 PM)The Cats Wrote:  UNA's most recent published athletic budget according to the "Equity in Athletics" web site was $11,293,784.00

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/details

This all kind of news to me as I have not heard about any desires for ETSU to move to FBS. Interesting thread to read though. I think if it happened it would take another major realignment of conferences. I will keep watching and listening and will support anything our AD wants to do but I do not think it will be soon.

Robert Morris to Join Horizon League in Most Sports; Football to Big South


https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2020/06/...st-sports/

(06-07-2020 07:00 PM)The Cats Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 10:16 AM)BaseballPops Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 08:59 AM)MercerFan Wrote:  BaseballPops, that's really interesting numbers on the public programs. I can't believe WCU and VMI have football with such small budgets. WCU is noticeably below ETSU, they almost don't seem compatible aside from being public. UTC also nearly 5 million above WCU. Kennesaw spending 25.8 million with a basketball program like that? I hope all that funding is going to football! If ETSU can make the jump up to the Sun Belt group that would be amazing, I'd be really happy for you guys.

Mercer I'm perfectly happy with current SoCon, and would be happy if it remained intact. It's gaining in basketball clout and the geographic footprint is spot on, but I'm afraid the way things are changing in the world of intercollegiate athletics, we are closer to having to choose than anyone may think.

I think Western Carolina is perfectly happy in the SoCon as well, and I don't see the administration willing to fork over the $1 million exit fee to the SoCon, as well as having to pay an entry fee of $??? (whatever) to a brand new unproven conference that may or may not survive. We'd certainly hate to see ETSU and Chattanooga depart, but both Campbell and Gardner-Webb are waiting in the wings to enter the SoCon given the opportunity (both schools have lots of potential in football). I think Western and the two military schools (both public) could live with that structure and the conference will still have a tight footprint.

Another thing, Western does not have aspirations like ETSU & UTC for movement to FBS, nor does it have the funding to make that move. However, something to remember about athletic funding, WCU athletic dollars go a lot further because of the NC Promise. NC Promise means students pay tuition of just $500 per semester for in-state students and $2,500 per semester for out-of-state students.

Off topic some, but most interesting. Looks like “a deal you can’t turn down”. . My daughter attended Western her first two years of college — then out-of-state tuition exploded and she transferred back home to UGA. This NC Promise is for 3 UNC campuses, including, of course, WCU. Will this program go statewide? Is this the beginning of a movement to reel in the exploding college cost for students and their families?

(06-15-2020 06:00 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Off topic some, but most interesting. Looks like “a deal you can’t turn down”. . My daughter attended Western her first two years of college — then out-of-state tuition exploded and she transferred back home to UGA. This NC Promise is for 3 UNC campuses, including, of course, WCU. Will this program go statewide? Is this the beginning of a movement to reel in the exploding college cost for students and their families?

No, too expensive to take it system-wide, there is a total of 16 universities in the UNC system, it will remain at 3.

The cost of providing college education hasn't gone up nearly as significantly as most believe. Instead, the model of paying for it has changed. Before the mid-2000s, state schools were heavily subsidized by the states, making tuition low but also providing fewer need-based scholarships. This has changed, with states pulling back on funding to institutions (thus increasing tuition rates) and instead focusing their monetary assistance to direct need-based assistance to students and programs such the TN Promise. Of course, this results in those who don't receive this type of aid paying much more tuition while others pay much less than they used to.

(06-16-2020 05:18 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  The cost of providing college education hasn't gone up nearly as significantly as most believe. Instead, the model of paying for it has changed. Before the mid-2000s, state schools were heavily subsidized by the states, making tuition low but also providing fewer need-based scholarships. This has changed, with states pulling back on funding to institutions (thus increasing tuition rates) and instead focusing their monetary assistance to direct need-based assistance to students and programs such the TN Promise. Of course, this results in those who don't receive this type of aid paying much more tuition while others pay much less than they used to.

Adjusted for inflation, today ETSU has less dollars per student to provide their education than in the early 2000s.

UConn to eliminate 4 sports. This story appears to be a blog so the UConn story may move down the page.
https://www.wjhl.com/sports/us-world-spo...-of-virus/

Interesting article and tidbits that could be the future of college sports scheduling as we know it. The times they are a changing for sure.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...iate-level

On approaching season during the rona:

https://www.onlineathens.com/sports/2020...g-pandemic