The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

https://abc7.com/education/csu-campuses-...r/6176291/
California State systems schools closed fall 2020
San Jose St
Fresno State
San Diego State

MAC eliminating lots of post-season activities
https://www.wtol.com/article/sports/majo...a5a6d8fe3c

Biggest immediate effect for ODU sports might be that MAC basketball is going to 20 conference games. Not that ODU plays MAC teams often in basketball (they beat the brakes off Bowling Green a few years ago), but the trend toward 20-game conference schedules continues apace, giving ODU fewer non-con opportunities.

The loss of non-revenue conference postseason sucks for the athletes but as long as they're still sponsoring the sports, it won't be the end of the world. Though it's interesting that the MAC, with the smallest footprint of the FBS conferences, is the one killing many of its tournaments. How long until CUSA follows suit?

Cal State article didn't mention sports but presuming fall sports are a no go and winter sports are crippled if not also cancelled, that's a hell of a blow to the MWC and Big West.

No comment on if it’s the right choice, but It’s typical ODU luck that this would happen when football has its best home schedule ever and basketball has its best schedule/team in years. We just can’t catch a break.

If ODU goes this route, they might have to become a UVA or VT satellite campus to survive. Even if it liquidates its endowment, that might not be enough to cover those losses. Nobody is going to pay tuition for internet school and people don't take gap semesters, they take gap years. I certainly hope ODU doesn't commit suicide.

(05-13-2020 09:43 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 09:25 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  If ODU goes this route, they might have to become a UVA or VT satellite campus to survive. Even if it liquidates its endowment, that might not be enough to cover those losses. Nobody is going to pay tuition for internet school and people don't take gap semesters, they take gap years. I certainly hope ODU doesn't commit suicide.

ODU is a public service funded by the taxpayers, not a business. We're only as strong as whatever Virginians want. We have a budget, but we don't "lose" or "make" money in the traditional sense. Yes, the taxpayers have an expected ROI, but the government is the only shareholder which matters.

Plenty of public institutions around the US operate in the "red" because they're not thought of businesses, simply necessary services. I think we'll be fine.

I work for a state university and can tell you that we absolutely think of ourselves as a business. From what Im told, state money barely pays for the infrastructure and most faculty. All the staff, many amenities etc are paid for via all the fees. Athletics fees, recreational fees, parking fees, meal plans, housing, differential pricing for certain majors etc. If there is no on-campus learning you don't get those fees. Without those fees people will be furloughed at best and many will likely get laid off. Plus, you wont get your advertising money (soft drink exclusivity contracts for example), sponsorships for athletics, secondary income from renting spaces etc.

State money pays a lot, but its supplemented by private money to a large degree. And the state cant bail schools out this year because their tax revenue will be cut tremendously as well. We are planning for 20% budget cuts if we open in the fall. All bets are off if we don't.

ODU appears to be well positioned for offering high quality online learning as a result of them being quite experienced in that area. But its the on campus learning that is the heartbeat of any school and brings in all those fees too. Honestly, if I were a incoming freshman, theres no way Id pay full tuition for online courses at any 4 year university. Not ODU, not UVA, not Harvard. Id go to community college and take my general ed requirements and transfer those in the next year. The education is nearly the same wherever you go, its the on campus experience and the networking/friendships/connections made that is where the value is.

(05-13-2020 10:13 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  I don't disagree that public universities are currently being operated with the mindset of a business (for better or worse) or have budgets they need to meet or adjust, but in the end, they're simply not businesses. It's a public service, like any other.

I'm simply trying to get the point across that a school can't just "liquidate" or be eaten up like a traditional business. We are whatever Virginia wants to put into us.

Someone would have to bail them out if ODU was $200M in the red. You can budget and end up slightly in the red and backed by lines of credit against assets, but I would assume we are talking well beyond that margin of error. The state doesn't have that money. I can't imagine the university would just close and go vacant, but the state would want to ensure there is a major public university in HR. I would think our assets may be attractive to someone like UVA who has the endowment and bank account to weather this. The state may push it as a way to bail it out without using the state coffers. Not sure how it would work, just guessing. I guess I agree with you, I am just envisioning a way in how the state would step in. Hopefully we open up and this discussion is moot.

(05-13-2020 09:25 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  If ODU goes this route, they might have to become a UVA or VT satellite campus to survive. Even if it liquidates its endowment, that might not be enough to cover those losses. Nobody is going to pay tuition for internet school and people don't take gap semesters, they take gap years. I certainly hope ODU doesn't commit suicide.

This is the absolute dumbest take I have ever seen in my way too many years on this dumb website.

(05-13-2020 11:36 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 09:25 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  If ODU goes this route, they might have to become a UVA or VT satellite campus to survive. Even if it liquidates its endowment, that might not be enough to cover those losses. Nobody is going to pay tuition for internet school and people don't take gap semesters, they take gap years. I certainly hope ODU doesn't commit suicide.

This is the absolute dumbest take I have ever seen in my way too many years on this dumb website.

What is your smart take? The money will grow on campus trees (haven't seen an ODU estimate, but Virginia Tech estimates closing in the fall would cost them $300M and ODU's endowment is $240M)? Our obligations will be forgiven by the goodness of our payees' hearts? Our 25,000 on campus students plus off campus locals that pay for the interactions and experiences are going to pay for internet school? That the City of Norfolk, which is spending a fortune on redevelopment efforts, will tell us we don't have to pay taxes? Curious how you see this going down since you are the smartest person in the room.

ODU doesn't have half of its 24k enrollment on campus.

And VT's estimate of a $300m haircut has a LOT to do with missed revenues from a potential void in the fall. ODU is in a very different top line position. And there is no way that ODU becomes a satellite campus of any university in the SCHEV system. Tough year, no doubt but UVA, VT, W&M, VCU, Mason and every other state institution is grappling with a reduction in top line and how to reduce operating expenses to make it work. Not one of them will be picking up administrative control of ODU or any other university in the system.

(05-13-2020 01:49 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  ODU doesn't have half of its 24k enrollment on campus.

And VT's estimate of a $300m haircut has a LOT to do with missed revenues from a potential void in the fall. ODU is in a very different top line position. And there is no way that ODU becomes a satellite campus of any university in the SCHEV system. Tough year, no doubt but UVA, VT, W&M, VCU, Mason and every other state institution is grappling with a reduction in top line and how to reduce operating expenses to make it work. Not one of them will be picking up administrative control of ODU or any other university in the system.

Its true that only about 25% of students at ODU live on campus, but our on campus housing is full. Apparently there is a need for more. (why didnt they build them all higher?). But I would imagine at least another 25%+ live in Larchmont, Lamberts Point, Ghent and Colonial Place and those students are basically (on campus). They're probably full-time, paying fees, parking etc. Everything but room and board.

A friend whose son was planning to enter VT this fall just heard them say that due to the expected dip in the international full-pay enrollment, they will likely admit 950 additional VA residents this fall to make up that top line. So many applicants that would consider you a first choice is a good problem to have I suppose. We'll see if that holds.

I believe that ODU counts on about 800 international students each year. Not sure how that will be affected, given all that federal activity in the 757. But I doubt that these changes will affect ODU any more than the other publics. And if the state makes any moves to consolidate SCHEV members, there are a few that are very proximate to some larger ones that might be in that conversation. But enrollment expectations will drive those changes, not a lack of football in the fall.

Let me start by saying I think there is a 0% chance the situation is dire enough, or that there is any will to make this happen, but why would it necessarily be a bad thing if ODU became VT-Norfolk or UVA-Norfolk. It would certainly add some name recognition right out of the gate, but I admittedly have absolutely no insight into the inner workings of higher ed.

(05-13-2020 11:51 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 11:36 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 09:25 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  If ODU goes this route, they might have to become a UVA or VT satellite campus to survive. Even if it liquidates its endowment, that might not be enough to cover those losses. Nobody is going to pay tuition for internet school and people don't take gap semesters, they take gap years. I certainly hope ODU doesn't commit suicide.

This is the absolute dumbest take I have ever seen in my way too many years on this dumb website.

What is your smart take? The money will grow on campus trees (haven't seen an ODU estimate, but Virginia Tech estimates closing in the fall would cost them $300M and ODU's endowment is $240M)? Our obligations will be forgiven by the goodness of our payees' hearts? Our 25,000 on campus students plus off campus locals that pay for the interactions and experiences are going to pay for internet school? That the City of Norfolk, which is spending a fortune on redevelopment efforts, will tell us we don't have to pay taxes? Curious how you see this going down since you are the smartest person in the room.

There is a middle ground between operating as normal and losing our independence as an institution (which doesn't even make sense, if VT can't afford to be VT, how could they take on our obligations any better????).

It'll have to be done like literally every other institution in the state, utilizing a patchwork of methods and income sources. So things like cutting wages, furloughing staff, liquidizing assets, relief funding from federal, state, and local sources, postponing planned renovations/construction, taking on debt. Hell, if the school can commit to closing before the school year starts, they can save a bunch on food, water, janitorial/sanitation staff, etc.

It sucks, and it's going to suck for everyone. But to jump at the idea that ODU is committing suicide by potentially taking necessary safety precautions is ludicrous. And if ODU were to submit to becoming the satellite campus of another school then why ever even break off from W&M (who have a much higher academic cachet than Tech or UVA will ever have) in the first place?

I find this whole line of thinking absolutely insulting, and yes, dumb.

(05-13-2020 09:25 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  If ODU goes this route, they might have to become a UVA or VT satellite campus to survive. Even if it liquidates its endowment, that might not be enough to cover those losses. Nobody is going to pay tuition for internet school and people don't take gap semesters, they take gap years. I certainly hope ODU doesn't commit suicide.

Think ODU will fold before NSU?

(05-13-2020 04:27 PM)GhentFan Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 09:25 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  If ODU goes this route, they might have to become a UVA or VT satellite campus to survive. Even if it liquidates its endowment, that might not be enough to cover those losses. Nobody is going to pay tuition for internet school and people don't take gap semesters, they take gap years. I certainly hope ODU doesn't commit suicide.

Think ODU will fold before NSU?

Saw somewhere that 30% of higher ed will fail in this scenario. Norfolk State would be much more likely be in that number. No idea if ODU could weather it, but they certainly couldn't lose $300M and they will certainly be in a better spot if they fully open this fall.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I'm just pontificating here, but I don't see that happening. If it does, higher ed may just become a mid career badge collection or a regular 6-8 year stint while working FT. Maybe I'm out of touch and times have really changed that much, but I don't see any value in 4 years of internet classes without the networking, socialization, and learning to live on one's own. I'm not that old... 41. Frankly, the academics alone can already be achieved online for free so really you are just paying for a piece of paper that may or may not matter at some point down the road. And what would we do with all that land and all those buildings? Outside of the mid career guy with a family trying to get a promotion, that's a tough sell. Imagine letting your kid stay at home for 4 years so they can socially isolate, not contribute to the household, eat your food, and be on the computer all day.

To answer your first question, I think any school that decides to open will get a flood of increased demand, assuming they are the exception.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Wonder if we could see some migration of students from hot spot areas to less infected? Maybe more NY area kids decide to head south? Is it unrealistic to imagine an actual increase in student enrollment?

(05-14-2020 08:04 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  Wonder if we could see some migration of students from hot spot areas to less infected? Maybe more NY area kids decide to head south? Is it unrealistic to imagine an actual increase in student enrollment?

Not crazy at all. If NY/NJ/MD schools don't open I could see a lot of students choose to go on campus at more southern schools. Not sure if its still the case, but when I was at ODU there seemed to be a decent contingent from NJ. If ODU opens (and hasn't Broderick already said they will?) its possible they could see an increase by people who had ODU as a "second choice". Nobody knows, but its not incredibly far fetched if all those scenarios happened.

(05-14-2020 08:04 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  Wonder if we could see some migration of students from hot spot areas to less infected? Maybe more NY area kids decide to head south? Is it unrealistic to imagine an actual increase in student enrollment?

I think it is is a supply and demand problem. Overall, demand will be down. People are going to take gap years or enroll in community college regardless at this point. However, if blue state (using the term loosely) governors decide to keep campuses closed in the fall, the supply problem could certainly lead to increased enrollment in colleges that are open, especially if they come up with a streamlined admission process so those students accepted and enrolled at, say Syracuse can say, "I'm not paying for online school or risking my money. I wish there was some way I could get into Florida State and plan to go there instead". If states start shutting down in the fall, it will be a tremendous opportunity for those that don't.

more elims
Akron has eliminated men’s cross country, men’s golf & women’s tennis, sources told
@Stadium