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Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
First the axe man came for Arena. Then the axe man came for the AAF. Then the axe man came for the XFL. Now the axe man is coming for the CFL, which revealed it loses collectively $10m-20m/yr even when there isn't a pandemic.

https://3downnation.com/2020/05/07/commi...0-million/

Football could go from a year round on TV to just NCAAF and the NFL -- which love to compete for time slots these days instead of spreading the wealth -- in a matter of one single year.
05-11-2020 01:53 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
I really hope that Canadians don’t lose their league.
05-11-2020 02:03 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
The CFL has seemingly been on life support for decades now - anyone remember when the CFL put a franchise in *Shreveport Louisiana*? I do, LOL, I think it was the mid-90s.

But it has also been around for the entire 50 years I've been watching football. I remember my dad tuning in to games in the 1970s and explaining rule differences to me. So i hope it manages to survive.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2020 02:21 PM by quo vadis.)
05-11-2020 02:20 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
If the CFL close up shop then Toronto will become the new boogeyman that NFL owners use to get stadiums built the way LA was for 20 years.
05-11-2020 02:23 PM
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Erictelevision Online
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
STILL think the NFL should buy them, keep 4 teams (Toronto, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Vancouver) go to 18 games.
05-11-2020 02:25 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 02:25 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  STILL think the NFL should buy them, keep 4 teams (Toronto, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Vancouver) go to 18 games.

If you're keeping 4 CFL teams those aren't the four you keep.

Saskatchewan, Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton (roughly in that order) are where you actually get fans to show up in numbers. Toronto has all the location but abysmal fan attendance even after moving out of the Rogers Center to BMO Field which would get ridiculed as a facility in the Sun Belt. Vancouver is a tweener .... prime market lackluster support but not as bad as Toronto. Ottawa actually does better on the field and in the stands than both Vancouver and Toronto and has nicer facilities than both.
05-11-2020 02:43 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 02:23 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the CFL close up shop then Toronto will become the new boogeyman that NFL owners use to get stadiums built the way LA was for 20 years.

New Orleans is the logical franchise to move to Toronto, or Jacksonville.

The NFL cannot pass up a market almost as big as New York
05-11-2020 02:47 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 02:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:23 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the CFL close up shop then Toronto will become the new boogeyman that NFL owners use to get stadiums built the way LA was for 20 years.

New Orleans is the logical franchise to move to Toronto, or Jacksonville.

The NFL cannot pass up a market almost as big as New York

The Saints are top-10 in attendance.

New Orleans is a small city, but it draws from a wide area. Other than the NBA's Pelicans, there's no other pro franchises for 4-5 hours in any direction. The Saints are the most popular pro team of any sport in every county in Louisiana, almost every county in Mississippi, more than half of Alabama, and the Florida panhandle.
05-11-2020 03:08 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 02:25 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  STILL think the NFL should buy them, keep 4 teams (Toronto, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Vancouver) go to 18 games.

Sasketchewan has long had the CFL's best fan base, IIRC.

But the only markets of interest to NFL/NBA/MLB would be the big 3 --Montreal/Toronto/Vancouver. The NHL has 8 Canadian markets capable of supporting a franchise -- Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary, & Vancouver.
05-11-2020 03:09 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 03:08 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:23 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the CFL close up shop then Toronto will become the new boogeyman that NFL owners use to get stadiums built the way LA was for 20 years.

New Orleans is the logical franchise to move to Toronto, or Jacksonville.

The NFL cannot pass up a market almost as big as New York

The Saints are top-10 in attendance.

New Orleans is a small city, but it draws from a wide area. Other than the NBA's Pelicans, there's no other pro franchises for 4-5 hours in any direction. The Saints are the most popular pro team of any sport in every county in Louisiana, almost every county in Mississippi, more than half of Alabama, and the Florida panhandle.

Yeah, no way the NFL gives up New Orleans. That fan base spreads through Mississippi, southern Alabama, and the Florida panhandle. NFL even had the Saints play a preseason game in Jackson against Manning.
05-11-2020 03:13 PM
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AllTideUp Online
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Post: #11
RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 03:08 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:23 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the CFL close up shop then Toronto will become the new boogeyman that NFL owners use to get stadiums built the way LA was for 20 years.

New Orleans is the logical franchise to move to Toronto, or Jacksonville.

The NFL cannot pass up a market almost as big as New York

The Saints are top-10 in attendance.

New Orleans is a small city, but it draws from a wide area. Other than the NBA's Pelicans, there's no other pro franchises for 4-5 hours in any direction. The Saints are the most popular pro team of any sport in every county in Louisiana, almost every county in Mississippi, more than half of Alabama, and the Florida panhandle.

Yep, I know all sorts of Saints fans that have never lived in New Orleans or Louisiana a day in their life.
05-11-2020 03:23 PM
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72Tiger Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 03:13 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 03:08 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:23 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the CFL close up shop then Toronto will become the new boogeyman that NFL owners use to get stadiums built the way LA was for 20 years.

New Orleans is the logical franchise to move to Toronto, or Jacksonville.

The NFL cannot pass up a market almost as big as New York

The Saints are top-10 in attendance.

New Orleans is a small city, but it draws from a wide area. Other than the NBA's Pelicans, there's no other pro franchises for 4-5 hours in any direction. The Saints are the most popular pro team of any sport in every county in Louisiana, almost every county in Mississippi, more than half of Alabama, and the Florida panhandle.

Yeah, no way the NFL gives up New Orleans. That fan base spreads through Mississippi, southern Alabama, and the Florida panhandle. NFL even had the Saints play a preseason game in Jackson against Manning.

Lots of Saints fans in Memphis as well.
05-11-2020 03:40 PM
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AllTideUp Online
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 02:43 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:25 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  STILL think the NFL should buy them, keep 4 teams (Toronto, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Vancouver) go to 18 games.

If you're keeping 4 CFL teams those aren't the four you keep.

Saskatchewan, Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton (roughly in that order) are where you actually get fans to show up in numbers. Toronto has all the location but abysmal fan attendance even after moving out of the Rogers Center to BMO Field which would get ridiculed as a facility in the Sun Belt. Vancouver is a tweener .... prime market lackluster support but not as bad as Toronto. Ottawa actually does better on the field and in the stands than both Vancouver and Toronto and has nicer facilities than both.

Toronto is the 7th largest metro area in all of North America. You cannot pass that market up.

1. Mexico City
2. New York City
3. Los Angeles (Inland Empire comes in at #16)
4. Chicago
5. Dallas-Fort Worth
6. Houston
7. Toronto
8. Washington DC
9. Philadelphia
10. Miami

By the way, Montreal is #19 on that list. You've got to go there too.

I do agree with Vancouver. It comes in at #31. Outside of that, none of the others are in the top 50. With that said, Calgary is the 4th largest in Canada with close to 1.4 million. That's probably your 4th team as it is further South than Edmonton. Edmonton has close to 1.4 million as well, but they're both in the same province. There's no reason to worry about tapping both.

The NFL will sell itself. Whatever the attendance is for the CFL is less important because everyone up there knows it's not the best product. Their national pride is only going to get them so far. The real work is getting them to adopt an affinity for American football at all.

Baseball is not that big of a deal in Canada, for example, but the Blue Jays will still draw decent crowds. They know it's the best baseball product so you just need to get your foot in the door.

The only one of that list I would really be worried about is Vancouver. You might consider swapping to Ottawa or Winnipeg.
05-11-2020 03:42 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
Calgary (let Vancouver root for Seattle), Winnipeg (let Saskatchewan root for Winnipeg), Toronto, Montreal/Ottawa.
05-11-2020 03:51 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
Team 2019 average home attendance
Saskatchewan 30,896
Edmonton 30,321
Calgary 26,593
Winnipeg 26,379
Hamilton 23,255
Ottawa 22,305
BC 17,567
Montreal 17,275
Toronto 13,370
05-11-2020 03:58 PM
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whittx Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 02:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:23 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the CFL close up shop then Toronto will become the new boogeyman that NFL owners use to get stadiums built the way LA was for 20 years.

New Orleans is the logical franchise to move to Toronto, or Jacksonville.

The NFL cannot pass up a market almost as big as New York

But who's gonna build the stadium, since Rogers Centre only seats 50k.
05-11-2020 03:58 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 03:58 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Team 2019 average home attendance
Saskatchewan 30,896
Edmonton 30,321
Calgary 26,593
Winnipeg 26,379
Hamilton 23,255
Ottawa 22,305
BC 17,567
Montreal 17,275
Toronto 13,370

The bigger the city, the worse the attendance. The 4 teams from the Prairie Provinces are all healthy but the big city teams are dragging them down. Maybe they need a Can-Am League with 4 Western US cities that don’t have pro football.
05-11-2020 04:25 PM
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YNot Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 03:58 PM)whittx Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:23 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the CFL close up shop then Toronto will become the new boogeyman that NFL owners use to get stadiums built the way LA was for 20 years.

New Orleans is the logical franchise to move to Toronto, or Jacksonville.

The NFL cannot pass up a market almost as big as New York

But who's gonna build the stadium, since Rogers Centre only seats 50k.

That's low end for NFL attendance, for sure; but, you make a huge splash in the entire Canada market with a team in Toronto. May be have an annual game in Vancouver.

You probably don't want to blow up divisions completely, but Toronto and London would seem to fit so nicely with the Patriots and New York teams.
05-11-2020 04:27 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 03:58 PM)whittx Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:23 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the CFL close up shop then Toronto will become the new boogeyman that NFL owners use to get stadiums built the way LA was for 20 years.

New Orleans is the logical franchise to move to Toronto, or Jacksonville.

The NFL cannot pass up a market almost as big as New York

But who's gonna build the stadium, since Rogers Centre only seats 50k.

They’d probably play 2 seasons at Roger’s before a new domed facility was ready.

The question is would it be the Chargers, Jaguars, or Bills moving in?
05-11-2020 04:28 PM
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YNot Offline
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RE: Fourth pro football league at risk of folding in the last year
(05-11-2020 04:25 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 03:58 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Team 2019 average home attendance
Saskatchewan 30,896
Edmonton 30,321
Calgary 26,593
Winnipeg 26,379
Hamilton 23,255
Ottawa 22,305
BC 17,567
Montreal 17,275
Toronto 13,370

The bigger the city, the worse the attendance. The 4 teams from the Prairie Provinces are all healthy but the big city teams are dragging them down. Maybe they need a Can-Am League with 4 Western US cities that don’t have pro football.

Add Vancouver and align with San Diego, Portland, Salt Lake, San Antonio and St. Louis...

The eastern cities would be thrilled with the NFL franchise in Toronto...
05-11-2020 04:30 PM
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