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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Pick 1
(05-11-2020 01:02 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 12:57 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 09:57 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 09:48 AM)Trod0 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 08:07 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  Just shows how little you know. D2 has far less stringent academic requirements than D1. It is loaded with D1 talent with iffy GPAs. Just look at D2 rankings in football, basketball, baseball, volleyball, you name it. Lone Star Conference is always at the top of the heap. The Texas LSC schools are not your average bear, but you'll find that out soon enough.

I’ll take your word for it that the D2 texas conference is some sort of national powerhouse loaded with grizzlies. You’re the perfect example that I hope we don’t keep adding Texas schools.

And you're the perfect example that I hope the Texas schools come in make you put your foot in your mouth.
I like the enthusiasm but I think we will see growing pains. It's one thing to play a single game up (d2 vs FCS, fcs vs FBS, G5 vs P5), it will be a whole other beast to play a season.

UIL has just realigned and were the 2a school that just moved to 3a thinking we can crush whip the floor of every 4a schools. This FBS talk makes sound like we think we can beat can beat 6a Galena North Shore.

This guy gets it. I would like to see the WAC as a FBS and take Dixie and Tarleton along the transitional ride up to that level.

Of course. I'm not talking about coming in as an instant raging success. Guaranteed we will be more than just a warm body filling space. Tarleton will always be competitive and never a doormat. Bet on that.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2020 10:45 PM by Itinerant Texan.)
05-11-2020 01:14 PM
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Trod0 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Pick 1
Here’s a decent read since we’re on the subject.

http://forgotten5.com/2020/05/11/the-fut...ce-part-1/
05-11-2020 01:37 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Pick 1
(05-11-2020 01:14 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 01:02 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 12:57 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 09:57 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 09:48 AM)Trod0 Wrote:  I’ll take your word for it that the D2 texas conference is some sort of national powerhouse loaded with grizzlies. You’re the perfect example that I hope we don’t keep adding Texas schools.

And you're the perfect example that I hope the Texas schools come in make you put your foot in your mouth.
I like the enthusiasm but I think we will see growing pains. It's one thing to play a single game up (d2 vs FCS, fcs vs FBS, G5 vs P5), it will be a whole other beast to play a season.

UIL has just realigned and were the 2a school that just moved to 3a thinking we can crush whip the floor of every 4a schools. This FBS talk makes sound like we think we can beat can beat 6a Galena North Shore.

This guy gets it. I would like to see the WAC as a FBS and take Dixie and Tarleton along the transitional ride up to that level.

Of course. I'm not talking about instant success, but we will more than just warm bodies taking up space. Bet on that.

Well at one time, Gillispie was one of the top coaches in the country. It his inner-demons that brought his career back down to Tarleton State. So, Tarleton State does have a Power 5 coach if Gillispie on their court side if he can keep his off the court activities in check. He will not bring Tarleton State 4 and 5 star players but he will recruit players considered to be above Tarleton State's station as a Johnny come lately D2 school. So, I fully expect Tarleton State to be in the mix for regular season championships a few years down the road. I actually have more questions with Dixie State's Jon Judkins. I'm not sure he can recruit well enough to put Dixie State on the WAC top tier (eventually). He has been very successful at the D2 level but the coaches and players are much better at the D1 level. Cal Baptist's Rick Croy transitioned well to D1 so we will see. The only warm body right now is Chicago State. Shortly after joining the WAC, Chicago State slid down to the basement of the conference. And, their budget cuts drove the nails in the coffin (program) that that's where they will remain for the foreseeable future. It is a shame, they are in a talent rich city which doesn't require a big recruiting budget to build a competitive program.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2020 01:55 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
05-11-2020 01:54 PM
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Vulpes88 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Pick 1
(05-11-2020 12:57 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 09:57 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 09:48 AM)Trod0 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 08:07 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-10-2020 10:08 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  Warm bodies, that’s all you are. WAC losses members then they add members to keep afloat. It’s not like the wac approached you guys when we were fully staffed, big difference. What do you consider making noise in this league? Beating other crap teams? You guys don’t even know what a D1 athlete even looks like much like the rest of that conference you came from. You guys landed a good coach, I’ll give you that. If it wasn’t for that you would have had it rough.

Just shows how little you know. D2 has far less stringent academic requirements than D1. It is loaded with D1 talent with iffy GPAs. Just look at D2 rankings in football, basketball, baseball, volleyball, you name it. Lone Star Conference is always at the top of the heap. The Texas LSC schools are not your average bear, but you'll find that out soon enough.

I’ll take your word for it that the D2 texas conference is some sort of national powerhouse loaded with grizzlies. You’re the perfect example that I hope we don’t keep adding Texas schools.

And you're the perfect example that I hope the Texas schools come in make you put your foot in your mouth.
I like the enthusiasm but I think we will see growing pains. It's one thing to play a single game up (d2 vs FCS, fcs vs FBS, G5 vs P5), it will be a whole other beast to play a season.

UIL has just realigned and were the 2a school that just moved to 3a thinking we can crush whip the floor of every 4a schools. This FBS talk makes sound like we think we can beat can beat 6a Galena North Shore.

Definitely going to see growing pains but after a few years who knows.
05-11-2020 02:11 PM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Pick 1
(05-09-2020 07:27 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  If the WAC continues to add D2 schools, the next one I would like them to add is West Texas A&M. And, if the WAC is trying to start up FBS football using FCS move ups then... Sam Houston State, Stephen F. Austin, Montana, maybe North Dakota State. And, the team I wish NMSU was in the same conference with is UTEP.

I can't see how the WAC's recent moves allow for FBS football to be a goal in anything but the longest of terms without shuffling. Assuming the WAC did offer FBS football using mostly Southland and similar teams, you'd end up with membership looking like:

Non-football: CBU, Chicago St., GCU, Seattle, UTRGV, Utah Valley
FCS football Independents: Dixie St., Tarleton St., (maybe UTRGV in the future)
FBS football WAC: New Mexico St. plus 7 schools, some combination of FB-only and full members presumably

You'd end up with membership all over the place. Dixie and Tarleton won't be able to go to FBS financially for years. Maybe they'd go to the Southland for FB to replace the Southland schools moving to WAC FBS. Either way, you'd have to bring in 7 schools somehow, mostly move-ups plus maybe Liberty. I think UConn and UMass are more likely to stick to what they're doing.

So are you envisioning 8 teams for FBS + ~6-8 non-FBS schools? I guess the key question is how many of those FBS members would be football-only, but I can't see the Southland keeping schools that move up to FBS. So the WAC could potentially end up with ~6 non-football schools, 2 FCS schools, and ~7 FBS schools, for a total conference membership of 15 (though I think Tarleton would go to the Southland at least). Quite a conglomeration.
05-11-2020 02:30 PM
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LUSportsFan Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Pick 1
(05-11-2020 01:02 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 12:57 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 09:57 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 09:48 AM)Trod0 Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 08:07 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  Just shows how little you know. D2 has far less stringent academic requirements than D1. It is loaded with D1 talent with iffy GPAs. Just look at D2 rankings in football, basketball, baseball, volleyball, you name it. Lone Star Conference is always at the top of the heap. The Texas LSC schools are not your average bear, but you'll find that out soon enough.

I’ll take your word for it that the D2 texas conference is some sort of national powerhouse loaded with grizzlies. You’re the perfect example that I hope we don’t keep adding Texas schools.

And you're the perfect example that I hope the Texas schools come in make you put your foot in your mouth.
I like the enthusiasm but I think we will see growing pains. It's one thing to play a single game up (d2 vs FCS, fcs vs FBS, G5 vs P5), it will be a whole other beast to play a season.

UIL has just realigned and were the 2a school that just moved to 3a thinking we can crush whip the floor of every 4a schools. This FBS talk makes sound like we think we can beat can beat 6a Galena North Shore.

This guy gets it. I would like to see the WAC as a FBS and take Dixie and Tarleton along the transitional ride up to that level.

I agree. I'd like to see the WAC return as an FBS conference. To achieve that goal, I would look for candidates with at least the following attributes.

1. Demonstrated ability to raise funds - especially in states like Texas which don't allow public funds for athletic facilities.
2. Decent sized student body - If a university needs student athletic fees to help fund the move, the existing fee base should not be to high. There should be room to reasonably grow the fee base without overburdening the student.
3. The university should already have good to great athletic facilities. - This is needed to keep from blowing the budget by needing to upgrade too much at one time.
4. Mitigate travel requirements - It would be good to have a cluster of at least 3-4 universities to help mitigate travel costs. A geographically based divisional set up would be optimum. Try to keep the candidate from being on an "island". Some long distance rivals are ok. It would not be good to require long distance travel for too many competitions.
5. Easy travel connections would be nice. - Not too far from regional or major airports
6. Decent population base would be nice.- While not a game breaker, having a decent population base would help with an existing infrastructure (hotels, transportation sources, food) for the traveling team as well as a greater fan pool for the home university.

If FBS is the goal, I don't think current attendance should be as high a determining factor as long as the program has proven financial support (see #1 above). The current rules are to average at least 15,000 every other year. Attendance can be measured as either actual attendance or paid. At least in the early years, I'd opt for paid attendance and, if needed, supplement paid attendance to meet the required 15,000. I would consider that as part of the cost of sub-division membership.

Looking at the NCAA's 2019 Football Attendance Report, it looks like that is what many FBS programs currently do. I counted 14 of the current 130 FBS sub-division members with an annual attendance under 16,000. Several of those were under 15,000 for 2019.

Link - 2019 Football Attendance Report (NCAA)

Even without the CFP money, I see advantages for both the conference as well as its member institutions.
05-11-2020 02:32 PM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Pick 1
Dixie and Tarleton averaged 3,791 and 8,952, respectively, last year. How could they possibly get anywhere near the 15,000 FBS attendance requirement? It's one thing to average 12,000-13,000 and have to get to 15k. It's a whole different animal trying to go from 3,791 to 15k.
05-11-2020 02:49 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Pick 1
(05-11-2020 02:49 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  Dixie and Tarleton averaged 3,791 and 8,952, respectively, last year. How could they possibly get anywhere near the 15,000 FBS attendance requirement? It's one thing to average 12,000-13,000 and have to get to 15k. It's a whole different animal trying to go from 3,791 to 15k.

It should be noted we only have 10k capacity right now. Phase II expansion coming..
05-11-2020 04:02 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Pick 1
(05-11-2020 01:37 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  Here’s a decent read since we’re on the subject.

http://forgotten5.com/2020/05/11/the-fut...ce-part-1/

In all the crossfire I missed this. This is a good read. Well thought out. The idea basically hinges on UTEP coming back to the WAC and poaching a few SLC and Big Sky teams as we've already discussed before. Question is, would UTEP ever consider such a thing? And Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word from the SLC? Never gonna happen. Lamar/SFA and Sam, possibly. This could work.

WAC West
Dixie - SUU
NMSU - UTEP

WAC East
Tarleton - ACU
SLC team - SLC team
05-11-2020 05:54 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Pick 1
FBS dreams for the WAC are pretty much dead right now. They’ve had almost a decade to recruit MVFC, Southland, and Big Sky schools into that plan and none of them went for it. Going after schools in big markets worked for a while but that recruiting strategy is no longer bearing fruit. At this point, you can’t build that dream FBS conference without finding landing places for all the other schools the WAC restocked with. FCS is the future and I think they have the makings of a good hybrid league.
05-11-2020 07:45 PM
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LUSportsFan Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Pick 1
(05-11-2020 04:02 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 02:49 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  Dixie and Tarleton averaged 3,791 and 8,952, respectively, last year. How could they possibly get anywhere near the 15,000 FBS attendance requirement? It's one thing to average 12,000-13,000 and have to get to 15k. It's a whole different animal trying to go from 3,791 to 15k.

It should be noted we only have 10k capacity right now. Phase II expansion coming..

3,791 to 15K is a pretty good hurdle and would definitely present some challenges. I would assume attendance projections or at least a feasibility study to manage meeting the attendance requirements would be one of the main factors in any decisions made.

Tarleton State's road appears to be a little smoother. The Texans' average attendance last season at 8,952 was very close to Coastal Carolina's Brooks Stadium capacity (9,214) when the Chanticleers received an invitation to the Sun Belt.

Coastal Carolina's attendance was up to 15,019 in 2019 following completion of a post invitation 2nd phase of stadium expansion. Brooks Stadium capacity is currently 21,000.
05-11-2020 09:48 PM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Pick 1
(05-11-2020 05:54 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 01:37 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  Here’s a decent read since we’re on the subject.

http://forgotten5.com/2020/05/11/the-fut...ce-part-1/

In all the crossfire I missed this. This is a good read. Well thought out. The idea basically hinges on UTEP coming back to the WAC and poaching a few SLC and Big Sky teams as we've already discussed before. Question is, would UTEP ever consider such a thing? And Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word from the SLC? Never gonna happen. Lamar/SFA and Sam, possibly. This could work.

WAC West
Dixie - SUU
NMSU - UTEP

WAC East
Tarleton - ACU
SLC team - SLC team

It is not a well thought out article. So you believe UTEP, who has actively fought to keep NMSU out of any conference they are in will leave an FBS conference to join a hated rival in NMSU and a bunch of D2 moveups? At the same time you say Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word would never leave the SLC? The article was fun to read in these sports-less times, but it is a bunch of nonsense.
05-12-2020 09:28 AM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Pick 1
(05-12-2020 09:28 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 05:54 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 01:37 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  Here’s a decent read since we’re on the subject.

http://forgotten5.com/2020/05/11/the-fut...ce-part-1/

In all the crossfire I missed this. This is a good read. Well thought out. The idea basically hinges on UTEP coming back to the WAC and poaching a few SLC and Big Sky teams as we've already discussed before. Question is, would UTEP ever consider such a thing? And Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word from the SLC? Never gonna happen. Lamar/SFA and Sam, possibly. This could work.

WAC West
Dixie - SUU
NMSU - UTEP

WAC East
Tarleton - ACU
SLC team - SLC team

It is not a well thought out article. So you believe UTEP, who has actively fought to keep NMSU out of any conference they are in will leave an FBS conference to join a hated rival in NMSU and a bunch of D2 moveups? At the same time you say Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word would never leave the SLC? The article was fun to read in these sports-less times, but it is a bunch of nonsense.

Did you even read it? Yes it is a well thought out WAC FBS concept. Keeps everything regional and travel friendly. I don"t care about NMSU and UTEP not wanting to share a sandbox. Just need a regional team for NMSU. Plug in UTRGV or WTAMU for UTEP if it makes you feel better. It's the concept, man. Setting up a West and East division comprised of 4 regional teams each is the most logical FBS scenario i've heard of yet. If the WAC is hell bent on bringing back FBS football, this could work. Minimal D2 moveups, and bring in a couple of regional FCS schools to bring balance to the force. HBU and UIW are not good candidates, SFA, Sam, Lamar are much better options.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2020 12:12 PM by Itinerant Texan.)
05-12-2020 11:51 AM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Pick 1
(05-12-2020 11:51 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-12-2020 09:28 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 05:54 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 01:37 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  Here’s a decent read since we’re on the subject.

http://forgotten5.com/2020/05/11/the-fut...ce-part-1/

In all the crossfire I missed this. This is a good read. Well thought out. The idea basically hinges on UTEP coming back to the WAC and poaching a few SLC and Big Sky teams as we've already discussed before. Question is, would UTEP ever consider such a thing? And Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word from the SLC? Never gonna happen. Lamar/SFA and Sam, possibly. This could work.

WAC West
Dixie - SUU
NMSU - UTEP

WAC East
Tarleton - ACU
SLC team - SLC team

It is not a well thought out article. So you believe UTEP, who has actively fought to keep NMSU out of any conference they are in will leave an FBS conference to join a hated rival in NMSU and a bunch of D2 moveups? At the same time you say Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word would never leave the SLC? The article was fun to read in these sports-less times, but it is a bunch of nonsense.

Did you even read it? Yes it is a well thought out WAC FBS concept. Keeps everything regional and travel friendly. I don"t care about NMSU and UTEP not wanting to share a sandbox. Just need a regional team for NMSU. Plug in UTRGV or WTAMU for UTEP if it makes you feel better. It's the concept, man. Setting up a West and East division comprised of 4 regional teams each is the most logical FBS scenario i've heard of yet. If the WAC is hell bent on bringing back FBS football, this could work. Minimal D2 moveups, and bring in a couple of regional FCS schools to bring balance to the force. HBU and UIW are not good candidates, SFA, Sam, Lamar are much better options.

Yes I read it. Why would I comment if I didn't read it? The notion of a regional conference is a good concept, but it is nothing new. The ridiculous part is having your entire premise be based on UTEP joining the WAC. Once the article went there, they lost all credibility.
05-12-2020 12:37 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Pick 1
(05-12-2020 12:37 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(05-12-2020 11:51 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-12-2020 09:28 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 05:54 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 01:37 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  Here’s a decent read since we’re on the subject.

http://forgotten5.com/2020/05/11/the-fut...ce-part-1/

In all the crossfire I missed this. This is a good read. Well thought out. The idea basically hinges on UTEP coming back to the WAC and poaching a few SLC and Big Sky teams as we've already discussed before. Question is, would UTEP ever consider such a thing? And Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word from the SLC? Never gonna happen. Lamar/SFA and Sam, possibly. This could work.

WAC West
Dixie - SUU
NMSU - UTEP

WAC East
Tarleton - ACU
SLC team - SLC team

It is not a well thought out article. So you believe UTEP, who has actively fought to keep NMSU out of any conference they are in will leave an FBS conference to join a hated rival in NMSU and a bunch of D2 moveups? At the same time you say Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word would never leave the SLC? The article was fun to read in these sports-less times, but it is a bunch of nonsense.

Did you even read it? Yes it is a well thought out WAC FBS concept. Keeps everything regional and travel friendly. I don"t care about NMSU and UTEP not wanting to share a sandbox. Just need a regional team for NMSU. Plug in UTRGV or WTAMU for UTEP if it makes you feel better. It's the concept, man. Setting up a West and East division comprised of 4 regional teams each is the most logical FBS scenario i've heard of yet. If the WAC is hell bent on bringing back FBS football, this could work. Minimal D2 moveups, and bring in a couple of regional FCS schools to bring balance to the force. HBU and UIW are not good candidates, SFA, Sam, Lamar are much better options.

Yes I read it. Why would I comment if I didn't read it? The notion of a regional conference is a good concept, but it is nothing new. The ridiculous part is having your entire premise be based on UTEP joining the WAC. Once the article went there, they lost all credibility.

I haven't read the article. An article that would indicate UTEP would leave the "safe" C-USA conference for the unstable WAC has no credibility. The only way UTEP and NMSU could wind up in the same conference is if C-USA and the Sun Belt agree to reorganize schools to form two more regionally acceptable conferences (east to west) and they invite NMSU into the mix.
05-12-2020 12:48 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Pick 1
(05-12-2020 12:37 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(05-12-2020 11:51 AM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-12-2020 09:28 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 05:54 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(05-11-2020 01:37 PM)Trod0 Wrote:  Here’s a decent read since we’re on the subject.

http://forgotten5.com/2020/05/11/the-fut...ce-part-1/

In all the crossfire I missed this. This is a good read. Well thought out. The idea basically hinges on UTEP coming back to the WAC and poaching a few SLC and Big Sky teams as we've already discussed before. Question is, would UTEP ever consider such a thing? And Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word from the SLC? Never gonna happen. Lamar/SFA and Sam, possibly. This could work.

WAC West
Dixie - SUU
NMSU - UTEP

WAC East
Tarleton - ACU
SLC team - SLC team

It is not a well thought out article. So you believe UTEP, who has actively fought to keep NMSU out of any conference they are in will leave an FBS conference to join a hated rival in NMSU and a bunch of D2 moveups? At the same time you say Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word would never leave the SLC? The article was fun to read in these sports-less times, but it is a bunch of nonsense.

Did you even read it? Yes it is a well thought out WAC FBS concept. Keeps everything regional and travel friendly. I don"t care about NMSU and UTEP not wanting to share a sandbox. Just need a regional team for NMSU. Plug in UTRGV or WTAMU for UTEP if it makes you feel better. It's the concept, man. Setting up a West and East division comprised of 4 regional teams each is the most logical FBS scenario i've heard of yet. If the WAC is hell bent on bringing back FBS football, this could work. Minimal D2 moveups, and bring in a couple of regional FCS schools to bring balance to the force. HBU and UIW are not good candidates, SFA, Sam, Lamar are much better options.

Yes I read it. Why would I comment if I didn't read it? The notion of a regional conference is a good concept, but it is nothing new. The ridiculous part is having your entire premise be based on UTEP joining the WAC. Once the article went there, they lost all credibility.

This is true, but in the case of the WAC starting up FBS from scratch again. its not so simple to apply that regional concept with viable teams. Doubly so with the 3 pieces we currently have (TSU, DSU, NMSU) being so spread out. Adding 5 teams around those 3 pieces with NMSU and a regional partner school being the bridge between east and west. If NMSU leaves the WAC, I see no way a WAC FBS could ever happen.
05-12-2020 12:59 PM
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