Which direction was he supposed to go? There was a truck in front of him and behind him on a public road and he couldnt just run through into someone's yard or home?

(05-10-2020 12:57 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 12:41 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 12:01 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 11:35 AM)tigersroll Wrote:  Piss poor job of trying to "detain" this young man. So, it takes two trucks full of men with guns to detain one man? This was a coward act with obvious intentions. Think whatever you want, but you know the truth.

Why cant people deal in facts, "two trucks full of men"? Wasnt there a total of 3 men in both trucks? Like I said, the only thing I know is whats been posted here so can you point me to a link that shows the other man, who wasnt charged, had a gun?

Lets look at what you know as the truth....

if two trucks full of men who are loaded with guns...points them at you or any normal person. What would you do? Since this man was jogging when he attempted to attack and take a gun from one of those men. Do you think he was being detained? Let me tell you what I would do if 2 truck full of men carrying guns and pointing them at me...

my hands would go up and say I dont know what you are thinking but lets talk this out. I might **** my pants but I sure wouldnt attack them. Wouldn't that be the reaction for most people?

But I agree with you they wanted him to stop so they could take him to or call the police. So the truth is he wasnt and they didnt use guns to stop and detain him. Anyone with a lick of common sense should understand that. That's why he was still jogging.

If two trucks full of men who are loaded with guns...What would you do?

His first instinct was to run the other way, which he did. Stop ignoring that.

And also stop thinking that there is one and only one normal reaction. In extreme stress anything in the categories of run away, fight, or freeze are normal reactions.

Stop ignoring the man ran DIRECTLY at the truck then decided his best option was to attack a man with a gun. Watch the video and you will see 10 seconds, which might not seen long. But he had a full 10 seconds so at least 50 yards between him and the truck with no one around him. Most people and when I say most I would guess 99.9% would choose to avoid a "truck full of men" that pointed guns at them.

So stop ignoring the fact he made that choice when there were better options. He chose the only option that could put him in the most danger. So who's to say he was looking for a fight? The option he choose tells me he's a idiot or at up to this point he had not seen any gun pointed or flashed at him.

Yes I'm assuming but basing it off a reacting that almost everyone else would not have made.

But he did flee. He chose to avoid the men. The second time fleeing successfully probably seemed like less of an option.

This is a tragedy. No way around it. Does it deserve this much mulling over at this point in time? Hardly.

(05-10-2020 01:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which direction was he supposed to go? There was a truck in front of him and behind him on a public road and he couldnt just run through into someone's yard or home?

I’ll answer this for them. He should’ve just grabbed his bootstraps and pulled himself straight up.

(05-10-2020 01:03 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  These two men are going to get indicted...and unless something really compelling comes to light they probably should be.

That said, I don't care if you're getting robbed or if someone is trying to make a citizen's arrest, do not try and take the gun from the person. Just don't try it unless you're absolutely certain you will get shot no matter what you do. It's more important to maximize your chances for survival than it is to be legally right or to be a bad***.

Doesn’t that seem like a possibility here?

(05-10-2020 01:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which direction was he supposed to go? There was a truck in front of him and behind him on a public road and he couldnt just run through into someone's yard or home?

Who says he has to go anywhere? Couldn’t he have simply stopped? Waited for the cops to come and say, “I was just jogging and these guys started yelling at me to stop here. I’m not sure what the problem is officer.”

That’s why this whole BS story from the media doesn’t add up.

Even if he stops on his own accord from them yelling at him to stop, he’s not lawfully being detained.

I’ve lawfully detained people. This isn’t close to what detainment is.


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(05-10-2020 01:13 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 01:03 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  These two men are going to get indicted...and unless something really compelling comes to light they probably should be.

That said, I don't care if you're getting robbed or if someone is trying to make a citizen's arrest, do not try and take the gun from the person. Just don't try it unless you're absolutely certain you will get shot no matter what you do. It's more important to maximize your chances for survival than it is to be legally right or to be a bad***.

Doesn’t that seem like a possibility here?

No. There was no evidence that they intended to shoot him until he threw punches then tried to grab the gun.

If they were intent on shooting him, they could and likely would have done it long before it happened. Probably the first time they came up on him and told him to stop. Probably as he approached the truck. Probably as he changed direction and lunges at him. Probably after he punched them.

The fact is, he wasn’t shot until he tried to wrestle the gun from the guy.


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(05-10-2020 01:12 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 01:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which direction was he supposed to go? There was a truck in front of him and behind him on a public road and he couldnt just run through into someone's yard or home?

I’ll answer this for them. He should’ve just grabbed his bootstraps and pulled himself straight up.

At least you’re finally admitting they weren’t running shoes and he wasn’t out exercising.


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(05-10-2020 01:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which direction was he supposed to go? There was a truck in front of him and behind him on a public road and he couldnt just run through into someone's yard or home?

Again bullcrap, neither truck was with in 50 yards of him. You can see the distant from the film truck. Only a 100% idiot would think...I better not go through this yard, if two people had guns drawn on them, 50 ft up ahead. He could have just kept running once he got to the truck

He didnt have a problem running through yards a few minutes earlier.

But in reality I dont think the guy knew any of them had a gun till he go up on them. No one had pointed it at him or flashed it up till that point. I base that off the fact....

he was jogging at them and when he got close he made the decision to avoid the guy who got out of the truck by going to the right side. If by chance they had already pointed the guns at him up the road. Any person in their right mind is going to do everything in their power to avoid them. If that means cutting through a yard or two...you do just that.

I honestly dont believe anyone had pulled a gun till that point. He was jogging normal making no effort to ovoid them. That would explain his reaction when he got up to the truck. In that case I can see fear making a people do something stupid. Like attacking a man with a gun and trying to get it away from him.

I'm not for or against any of them they all made stupid decisions. Cause one their life and in the setting the media is showing. It's going to cause one or both of the other idiots...prison.

But going by the law I see self defense by the shooter. I'm looking at this with what I think is the law. Not black and white

(05-10-2020 01:20 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 01:12 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 01:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which direction was he supposed to go? There was a truck in front of him and behind him on a public road and he couldnt just run through into someone's yard or home?

I’ll answer this for them. He should’ve just grabbed his bootstraps and pulled himself straight up.

At least you’re finally admitting they weren’t running shoes and he wasn’t out exercising.


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I never said they were running shoes, but if you look at the video of him in the garage, he’s wearing white sneakers. Could be low top basketball shoes, could be walkers, but they aren’t boots.

We seem to have a couple of posters who expect detached reflection from a guy who’s being stopped by people with guns.

(05-10-2020 01:20 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 01:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which direction was he supposed to go? There was a truck in front of him and behind him on a public road and he couldnt just run through into someone's yard or home?

Again bullcrap, neither truck was with in 50 yards of him. You can see the distant from the film truck. Only a 100% idiot would think...I better not go through this yard, if two people had guns drawn on them, 50 ft up ahead. He could have just kept running once he got to the truck

He didnt have a problem running through yards a few minutes earlier.

But in reality I dont think the guy knew any of them had a gun till he go up on them. No one had pointed it at him or flashed it up till that point. I base that off the fact....

he was jogging at them and when he got close he made the decision to avoid the guy who got out of the truck by going to the right side. If by chance they had already pointed the guns at him up the road. Any person in their right mind is going to do everything in their power to avoid them. If that means cutting through a yard or two...you do just that.

I honestly dont believe anyone had pulled a gun till that point. He was jogging normal making no effort to ovoid them. That would explain his reaction when he got up to the truck. In that case I can see fear making a people do something stupid. Like attacking a man with a gun and trying to get it away from him.

I'm not for or against any of them they all made stupid decisions. Cause one their life and in the setting the media is showing. It's going to cause one or both of the other idiots...prison.

But going by the law I see self defense by the shooter. I'm looking at this with what I think is the law. Not black and white

You got some site diagrams or something? You don’t know how far or close those trucks were.

(05-10-2020 01:26 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 01:20 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 01:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which direction was he supposed to go? There was a truck in front of him and behind him on a public road and he couldnt just run through into someone's yard or home?

Again bullcrap, neither truck was with in 50 yards of him. You can see the distant from the film truck. Only a 100% idiot would think...I better not go through this yard, if two people had guns drawn on them, 50 ft up ahead. He could have just kept running once he got to the truck

He didnt have a problem running through yards a few minutes earlier.

But in reality I dont think the guy knew any of them had a gun till he go up on them. No one had pointed it at him or flashed it up till that point. I base that off the fact....

he was jogging at them and when he got close he made the decision to avoid the guy who got out of the truck by going to the right side. If by chance they had already pointed the guns at him up the road. Any person in their right mind is going to do everything in their power to avoid them. If that means cutting through a yard or two...you do just that.

I honestly dont believe anyone had pulled a gun till that point. He was jogging normal making no effort to ovoid them. That would explain his reaction when he got up to the truck. In that case I can see fear making a people do something stupid. Like attacking a man with a gun and trying to get it away from him.

I'm not for or against any of them they all made stupid decisions. Cause one their life and in the setting the media is showing. It's going to cause one or both of the other idiots...prison.

But going by the law I see self defense by the shooter. I'm looking at this with what I think is the law. Not black and white

You got some site diagrams or something? You don’t know how far or close those trucks were.

There is 1 second on the video when I captured this shot and it's 11 seconds when he goes to the right side of the truck. Of course I dont know the actual distant from either truck but the guy who took the video is in this one

(05-10-2020 01:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which direction was he supposed to go? There was a truck in front of him and behind him on a public road and he couldnt just run through into someone's yard or home?

If he is willing to charge a man with a gun I doubt he would have any problems running through a yard or two. It sounds like that is how he got in that position to begin with.

Everyone involved made some pretty poor decisions.

(05-10-2020 01:25 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  We seem to have a couple of posters who expect detached reflection from a guy who’s being stopped by people with guns.

Well it looks like they guy was likely involved in some illegal activities. So he has to share some of the blame for being in that position to begin with, then attacking the people holding the guns.

I know if he was white, the shooters were black, and the circumstances the same I would not be very quick to defend him. There is a high probability he was up to no good and it was not the first time. I just hope the truth is found and justice is served.

There are a lot of truly innocent victims in the world, I'm not so quick to fight for and defend criminals when something bad happens to them. Hopefully they can establish if he was involved in anything criminal or not. If the guy was totally innocent and doing nothing wrong, then I am much more inclined to be offended and angered over the situation. It seems like the media ALWAYS gets these cases wrong though and the victim was up to no good.

I'm inclined to think those guys had no business coming after him with or without guns, but I don't know the history or the situation enough.

(05-10-2020 01:15 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 01:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which direction was he supposed to go? There was a truck in front of him and behind him on a public road and he couldnt just run through into someone's yard or home?

Who says he has to go anywhere? Couldn’t he have simply stopped? Waited for the cops to come and say, “I was just jogging and these guys started yelling at me to stop here. I’m not sure what the problem is officer.”

That’s why this whole BS story from the media doesn’t add up.

Even if he stops on his own accord from them yelling at him to stop, he’s not lawfully being detained.

I’ve lawfully detained people. This isn’t close to what detainment is.


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You said they werent trying to detain him

But your solution is detainment?

You are not detaining someone just by stopping them or asking them to stop and talk. If they try to leave and you force then by action or threat, to stay its detainment.

A police officer might ask you to come in to give for questioning at that point you are not 'detained'. If you get up to leave and they wont let you...you are detained.

(05-10-2020 01:57 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 01:15 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 01:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which direction was he supposed to go? There was a truck in front of him and behind him on a public road and he couldnt just run through into someone's yard or home?

Who says he has to go anywhere? Couldn’t he have simply stopped? Waited for the cops to come and say, “I was just jogging and these guys started yelling at me to stop here. I’m not sure what the problem is officer.”

That’s why this whole BS story from the media doesn’t add up.

Even if he stops on his own accord from them yelling at him to stop, he’s not lawfully being detained.

I’ve lawfully detained people. This isn’t close to what detainment is.


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You said they werent trying to detain him

But your solution is detainment?

No. Again, you don’t understand the difference. If someone says “hey take a seat right here until the cops show up.” That’s still NOT detainment. Especially if you agree and willingly do so.

If someone told me to sit, and I still have the ability to walk or run off (which he obviously did), I’m not being detained.

I have a funny feeling that even the two idiots sitting in a jail cell right now didn’t have a clue what actual detainment is.



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(05-10-2020 02:15 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  You are not detaining someone just by stopping them or asking them to stop and talk. If they try to leave and you force then by action or threat, to stay its detainment.

A police officer might ask you to come in to give for questioning at that point you are not 'detained'. If you get up to leave and they wont let you...you are detained.

Exactly.


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(05-10-2020 01:42 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 01:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which direction was he supposed to go? There was a truck in front of him and behind him on a public road and he couldnt just run through into someone's yard or home?

If he is willing to charge a man with a gun I doubt he would have any problems running through a yard or two. It sounds like that is how he got in that position to begin with.

Everyone involved made some pretty poor decisions.

I agree. It looks clear that the young man trespassed on private property and the posse was overly aggressive in their actions. None of this should have happened. Its a tragedy. I expect at this point the posse will get manslaughter, not murder. It would not surprise me if more evidence is going to forward showing that this young man has been doing more suspicious stuff, now that this video has come out. What was he doing there? There is an easy case to be made that he was casing the place to come back and steal building materials. This type of theft is very commonplace and the exact reason the home owner had cameras installed.