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Should UT Cut Sports?
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FMRocket Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-03-2020 06:35 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  "If that’s the case, donor money and overall fan support will take a major hit..."

Neither of which come close to supporting the UT Athletics budget, you downsize varsity sports to the budget the university can afford to support.

Fair enough !!
FCS/ Div.2/ or NAIA here we come... 04-cheers
05-03-2020 06:40 PM
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PaulJ Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
I have been attending Rockets football for 20 years, consider myself a fan and supporter, but the future of UT and its academic mission plus its financial responsibility to students (paying fees and tuition) and to taxpayers is more important that growing UT Athletics. If need be drop down to FCS along with the rest of the MAC, build a strong conference, you can still attract out of conference games, Rockets football continues just under a different model.
05-03-2020 06:46 PM
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UTerry Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-02-2020 10:48 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  
(05-02-2020 04:08 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  Please specify on how wrong Bearcatman is !!
This should be interesting, since Temple presently has MAC like numbers at the LINCOLN and building an on-campus stadium they would automatically elevate themselves to be in the 35-40,000 range attendance wise. 03-lmfao
Oh, but lest we forget, TU was such a dominant program when they were in the MAC... (Barely finishing above .500 or not withstanding Toledo slapping the Owls around a few years ago in Boca)... 04-cheers

Temple attendance 2008: 15,582
Temple attendance 2019: 29,460

The only program in the entire country with larger growth than us is Mississippi State.

Toledo is the only program in the MAC over 18K. I'd say we're very un-MAC like.

Toledo's attendance would be higher if it weren't for those lousy midweek games that people can't go to because of work and kids school. 03-pissed03-pissed03-pissed03-pissed
In Toledo, noon and Saturday day time kickoffs times also hurt attendance numbers.....
05-04-2020 06:37 AM
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UTerry Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-03-2020 06:46 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  I have been attending Rockets football for 20 years, consider myself a fan and supporter, but the future of UT and its academic mission plus its financial responsibility to students (paying fees and tuition) and to taxpayers is more important that growing UT Athletics. If need be drop down to FCS along with the rest of the MAC, build a strong conference, you can still attract out of conference games, Rockets football continues just under a different model.

If Toledo ever did drop down divisions, than you would NEVER see "name" schools in the Glass Bowl ever again...……… They don't go to FCS or below stadiums...…
To be honest many MAC schools need to drop down. Which actually would be great for Toledo. But Toledo is not one of them.
Old proverb, "you are who you associate with" and Toledo needs to associate with some new folks ……..(have needed to for years)……..
05-04-2020 06:46 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 06:46 AM)UTerry Wrote:  
(05-03-2020 06:46 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  I have been attending Rockets football for 20 years, consider myself a fan and supporter, but the future of UT and its academic mission plus its financial responsibility to students (paying fees and tuition) and to taxpayers is more important that growing UT Athletics. If need be drop down to FCS along with the rest of the MAC, build a strong conference, you can still attract out of conference games, Rockets football continues just under a different model.

If Toledo ever did drop down divisions, than you would NEVER see "name" schools in the Glass Bowl ever again...……… They don't go to FCS or below stadiums...…
To be honest many MAC schools need to drop down. Which actually would be great for Toledo. But Toledo is not one of them.
Old proverb, "you are who you associate with" and Toledo needs to associate with some new folks ……..(have needed to for years)……..

And who is going to send them an invite? Because that's necessary in order to associate with some other programs and it hasn't happened yet when the prime candidate has needed to add a 12th. Truth be told, UT is not wanted by anyone else, and in order to make themselves more attractive they'd have to double their athletics expenses in a time when, truly, they should be halved.
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2020 07:20 AM by BearcatMan.)
05-04-2020 07:19 AM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 07:19 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 06:46 AM)UTerry Wrote:  
(05-03-2020 06:46 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  I have been attending Rockets football for 20 years, consider myself a fan and supporter, but the future of UT and its academic mission plus its financial responsibility to students (paying fees and tuition) and to taxpayers is more important that growing UT Athletics. If need be drop down to FCS along with the rest of the MAC, build a strong conference, you can still attract out of conference games, Rockets football continues just under a different model.

If Toledo ever did drop down divisions, than you would NEVER see "name" schools in the Glass Bowl ever again...……… They don't go to FCS or below stadiums...…
To be honest many MAC schools need to drop down. Which actually would be great for Toledo. But Toledo is not one of them.
Old proverb, "you are who you associate with" and Toledo needs to associate with some new folks ……..(have needed to for years)……..

And who is going to send them an invite? Because that's necessary in order to associate with some other programs and it hasn't happened yet when the prime candidate has needed to add a 12th. Truth be told, UT is not wanted by anyone else, and in order to make themselves more attractive they'd have to double their athletics expenses in a time when, truly, they should be halved.

Go get yourself a Conference. Get together some stronger G5 schools that are within 12 hours drive time and have decent fan bases. Some people cover
up when someone is going to punch them. Other people look to punch back. If the Rockets go FCS, then it's on the way to bottom. It will just be a matter of time. 55 years of following UT sports, this would be the end for me. Like watching a friend slowly die.
05-04-2020 08:54 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 08:54 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 07:19 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 06:46 AM)UTerry Wrote:  
(05-03-2020 06:46 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  I have been attending Rockets football for 20 years, consider myself a fan and supporter, but the future of UT and its academic mission plus its financial responsibility to students (paying fees and tuition) and to taxpayers is more important that growing UT Athletics. If need be drop down to FCS along with the rest of the MAC, build a strong conference, you can still attract out of conference games, Rockets football continues just under a different model.

If Toledo ever did drop down divisions, than you would NEVER see "name" schools in the Glass Bowl ever again...……… They don't go to FCS or below stadiums...…
To be honest many MAC schools need to drop down. Which actually would be great for Toledo. But Toledo is not one of them.
Old proverb, "you are who you associate with" and Toledo needs to associate with some new folks ……..(have needed to for years)……..

And who is going to send them an invite? Because that's necessary in order to associate with some other programs and it hasn't happened yet when the prime candidate has needed to add a 12th. Truth be told, UT is not wanted by anyone else, and in order to make themselves more attractive they'd have to double their athletics expenses in a time when, truly, they should be halved.

Go get yourself a Conference. Get together some stronger G5 schools that are within 12 hours drive time and have decent fan bases. Some people cover
up when someone is going to punch them. Other people look to punch back. If the Rockets go FCS, then it's on the way to bottom. It will just be a matter of time. 55 years of following UT sports, this would be the end for me. Like watching a friend slowly die.

That's kind of what's happening though, sadly.

And who would you suggest and how would you pull them to your conference? UC, Memphis, and Temple, won't leave the American for less money than what they're getting...so what schools ADD value? Toledo doesn't, or else they'd already have an invite to the AAC, none of the other MAC schools do...so what other G5 schools are within your huge halo?

Also, just heard that UT, in an effort to cut athletics expenses, is going to do same-day travel for football this year in all possible opportunities...so get ready to see some SUPER ****** first quarters in the fall if football happens. And if football doesn't happen this year, there is no way for Athletics to survive here.
05-04-2020 09:02 AM
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FMRocket Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 09:02 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 08:54 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 07:19 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 06:46 AM)UTerry Wrote:  
(05-03-2020 06:46 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  I have been attending Rockets football for 20 years, consider myself a fan and supporter, but the future of UT and its academic mission plus its financial responsibility to students (paying fees and tuition) and to taxpayers is more important that growing UT Athletics. If need be drop down to FCS along with the rest of the MAC, build a strong conference, you can still attract out of conference games, Rockets football continues just under a different model.

If Toledo ever did drop down divisions, than you would NEVER see "name" schools in the Glass Bowl ever again...……… They don't go to FCS or below stadiums...…
To be honest many MAC schools need to drop down. Which actually would be great for Toledo. But Toledo is not one of them.
Old proverb, "you are who you associate with" and Toledo needs to associate with some new folks ……..(have needed to for years)……..

And who is going to send them an invite? Because that's necessary in order to associate with some other programs and it hasn't happened yet when the prime candidate has needed to add a 12th. Truth be told, UT is not wanted by anyone else, and in order to make themselves more attractive they'd have to double their athletics expenses in a time when, truly, they should be halved.

Go get yourself a Conference. Get together some stronger G5 schools that are within 12 hours drive time and have decent fan bases. Some people cover
up when someone is going to punch them. Other people look to punch back. If the Rockets go FCS, then it's on the way to bottom. It will just be a matter of time. 55 years of following UT sports, this would be the end for me. Like watching a friend slowly die.

That's kind of what's happening though, sadly.

And who would you suggest and how would you pull them to your conference? UC, Memphis, and Temple, won't leave the American for less money than what they're getting...so what schools ADD value? Toledo doesn't, or else they'd already have an invite to the AAC, none of the other MAC schools do...so what other G5 schools are within your huge halo?

Also, just heard that UT, in an effort to cut athletics expenses, is going to do same-day travel for football this year in all possible opportunities...so get ready to see some SUPER ****** first quarters in the fall if football happens. And if football doesn't happen this year, there is no way for Athletics to survive here.

Since there will no doubt be strong inclination for more geographically aligned conferences, and I would imagine the AAC would fall in that category... Hypothetical AAC North - South divisions ...
Toledo / Houston
Cincy / SMU
Buffalo / Memphis
Temple / Tulane
Army / UCF
Navy / USF




All schools in the north would be decent drivable trips, with the south more spread out ... In this setup it would be ( Army/Navy football only ) leaving a fairly strong 10 team lineup for basketball...
Left out Tulsa( too small with 3-4000 students and financially strapping) and East Carolina, well because they are East Carolina... 05-stirthepot
Toledo needs to step up in football and basketball in the next five years to have this possibly happen...
Eventually the AAC will need twelve, or possibly 14 members down the road...04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2020 10:47 AM by FMRocket.)
05-04-2020 10:38 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 10:38 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 09:02 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 08:54 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 07:19 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 06:46 AM)UTerry Wrote:  If Toledo ever did drop down divisions, than you would NEVER see "name" schools in the Glass Bowl ever again...……… They don't go to FCS or below stadiums...…
To be honest many MAC schools need to drop down. Which actually would be great for Toledo. But Toledo is not one of them.
Old proverb, "you are who you associate with" and Toledo needs to associate with some new folks ……..(have needed to for years)……..

And who is going to send them an invite? Because that's necessary in order to associate with some other programs and it hasn't happened yet when the prime candidate has needed to add a 12th. Truth be told, UT is not wanted by anyone else, and in order to make themselves more attractive they'd have to double their athletics expenses in a time when, truly, they should be halved.

Go get yourself a Conference. Get together some stronger G5 schools that are within 12 hours drive time and have decent fan bases. Some people cover
up when someone is going to punch them. Other people look to punch back. If the Rockets go FCS, then it's on the way to bottom. It will just be a matter of time. 55 years of following UT sports, this would be the end for me. Like watching a friend slowly die.

That's kind of what's happening though, sadly.

And who would you suggest and how would you pull them to your conference? UC, Memphis, and Temple, won't leave the American for less money than what they're getting...so what schools ADD value? Toledo doesn't, or else they'd already have an invite to the AAC, none of the other MAC schools do...so what other G5 schools are within your huge halo?

Also, just heard that UT, in an effort to cut athletics expenses, is going to do same-day travel for football this year in all possible opportunities...so get ready to see some SUPER ****** first quarters in the fall if football happens. And if football doesn't happen this year, there is no way for Athletics to survive here.

Since there will no doubt be strong inclination for more geographically aligned conferences, and I would imagine the AAC would fall in that category... Hypothetical AAC North - South divisions ...
North - Toledo South - Houston
Cincy SMU
Buffalo Tulane
Temple Memphis
Army UCF
Navy USF
All schools in the north would be decent drivable trips, with the south more spread out ... In this setup it would be ( Army/Navy football only ) leaving a fairly strong 10 team lineup for basketball...
Left out Tulsa( too small with 3-4000 students and financially strapping) and East Carolina, well because they are East Carolina... 05-stirthepot
Toledo needs to step up in football and basketball in the next five years to have this possibly happen...
Eventually the AAC will need twelve, or possibly 14 members down the road...04-cheers

Just to make sure I understand...your argument is that Toledo and Buffalo are more valuable than ECU and Tulsa, and that the amount is enough to cover both the legal fees of voting them out AND the fees to bring the two new schools in while also providing a year-to-year increase in media rights? Tulsa I'd agree with on the football side (although they're a decent basketball property), but they are also in a metropolitan area with twice the amount of citizens as Toledo. ECU on the other hand typically runs up attendance numbers in the 40,000 range in football and have pretty solid secondary sports, including a nationally recognized baseball program. Sure basketball is an absolute ****-show there, but I believe the other things make up for it.

I just don't see that as a remote possibility, AND don't even mention the fact that our expenses would go through the ******* roof with minimal new revenue (average AD's expenses in the AAC are just south of $50M, or an increase of around $20M from what we run now). It doesn't make any sense to do this from UT's perspective. Also, given my joint fandom and all the other jazz, I would love to see Toledo and Cincinnati in the same conference, however, there is absolutely no sane rationale that would make sense for the AAC to add Toledo.
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2020 10:51 AM by BearcatMan.)
05-04-2020 10:44 AM
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FMRocket Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 10:44 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 10:38 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 09:02 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 08:54 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 07:19 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  And who is going to send them an invite? Because that's necessary in order to associate with some other programs and it hasn't happened yet when the prime candidate has needed to add a 12th. Truth be told, UT is not wanted by anyone else, and in order to make themselves more attractive they'd have to double their athletics expenses in a time when, truly, they should be halved.

Go get yourself a Conference. Get together some stronger G5 schools that are within 12 hours drive time and have decent fan bases. Some people cover
up when someone is going to punch them. Other people look to punch back. If the Rockets go FCS, then it's on the way to bottom. It will just be a matter of time. 55 years of following UT sports, this would be the end for me. Like watching a friend slowly die.

That's kind of what's happening though, sadly.

And who would you suggest and how would you pull them to your conference? UC, Memphis, and Temple, won't leave the American for less money than what they're getting...so what schools ADD value? Toledo doesn't, or else they'd already have an invite to the AAC, none of the other MAC schools do...so what other G5 schools are within your huge halo?

Also, just heard that UT, in an effort to cut athletics expenses, is going to do same-day travel for football this year in all possible opportunities...so get ready to see some SUPER ****** first quarters in the fall if football happens. And if football doesn't happen this year, there is no way for Athletics to survive here.

Since there will no doubt be strong inclination for more geographically aligned conferences, and I would imagine the AAC would fall in that category... Hypothetical AAC North - South divisions ...
North - Toledo South - Houston
Cincy SMU
Buffalo Tulane
Temple Memphis
Army UCF
Navy USF
All schools in the north would be decent drivable trips, with the south more spread out ... In this setup it would be ( Army/Navy football only ) leaving a fairly strong 10 team lineup for basketball...
Left out Tulsa( too small with 3-4000 students and financially strapping) and East Carolina, well because they are East Carolina... 05-stirthepot
Toledo needs to step up in football and basketball in the next five years to have this possibly happen...
Eventually the AAC will need twelve, or possibly 14 members down the road...04-cheers

Just to make sure I understand...your argument is that Toledo and Buffalo are more valuable than ECU and Tulsa, and that the amount is enough to cover both the legal fees of voting them out AND the fees to bring the two new schools in while also providing a year-to-year increase in media rights? Tulsa I'd agree with on the football side (although they're a decent basketball property), but they are also in a metropolitan area with twice the amount of citizens as Toledo. ECU on the other hand typically runs up attendance numbers in the 40,000 range in football and have pretty solid secondary sports, including a nationally recognized baseball program. Sure basketball is an absolute ****-show there, but I believe the other things make up for it.

I just don't see that as a remote possibility, AND don't even mention the fact that our expenses would go through the ******* roof with minimal new revenue (average AD's expenses in the AAC are just south of $50M, or an increase of around $20M from what we run now). It doesn't make any sense to do this from UT's perspective. Also, given my joint fandom and all the other jazz, I would love to see Toledo and Cincinnati in the same conference, however, there is absolutely no sane rationale that would make sense for the AAC to add Toledo.

Well, as Boca stated, “ If we go FCS, it’s on our way to the bottom “ a slow death...
I know it’s a very REMOTE possibility for this all to transpire, but the pluses outweigh the negatives... Having Saturday football games back and being a part of a very very good b-ball conference( multiple bids and NCAA credits)... The metro populace of the Toledo area would IMO, take Rocket sports seriously... 04-cheers
05-04-2020 10:58 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 10:58 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 10:44 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 10:38 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 09:02 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 08:54 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Go get yourself a Conference. Get together some stronger G5 schools that are within 12 hours drive time and have decent fan bases. Some people cover
up when someone is going to punch them. Other people look to punch back. If the Rockets go FCS, then it's on the way to bottom. It will just be a matter of time. 55 years of following UT sports, this would be the end for me. Like watching a friend slowly die.

That's kind of what's happening though, sadly.

And who would you suggest and how would you pull them to your conference? UC, Memphis, and Temple, won't leave the American for less money than what they're getting...so what schools ADD value? Toledo doesn't, or else they'd already have an invite to the AAC, none of the other MAC schools do...so what other G5 schools are within your huge halo?

Also, just heard that UT, in an effort to cut athletics expenses, is going to do same-day travel for football this year in all possible opportunities...so get ready to see some SUPER ****** first quarters in the fall if football happens. And if football doesn't happen this year, there is no way for Athletics to survive here.

Since there will no doubt be strong inclination for more geographically aligned conferences, and I would imagine the AAC would fall in that category... Hypothetical AAC North - South divisions ...
North - Toledo South - Houston
Cincy SMU
Buffalo Tulane
Temple Memphis
Army UCF
Navy USF
All schools in the north would be decent drivable trips, with the south more spread out ... In this setup it would be ( Army/Navy football only ) leaving a fairly strong 10 team lineup for basketball...
Left out Tulsa( too small with 3-4000 students and financially strapping) and East Carolina, well because they are East Carolina... 05-stirthepot
Toledo needs to step up in football and basketball in the next five years to have this possibly happen...
Eventually the AAC will need twelve, or possibly 14 members down the road...04-cheers

Just to make sure I understand...your argument is that Toledo and Buffalo are more valuable than ECU and Tulsa, and that the amount is enough to cover both the legal fees of voting them out AND the fees to bring the two new schools in while also providing a year-to-year increase in media rights? Tulsa I'd agree with on the football side (although they're a decent basketball property), but they are also in a metropolitan area with twice the amount of citizens as Toledo. ECU on the other hand typically runs up attendance numbers in the 40,000 range in football and have pretty solid secondary sports, including a nationally recognized baseball program. Sure basketball is an absolute ****-show there, but I believe the other things make up for it.

I just don't see that as a remote possibility, AND don't even mention the fact that our expenses would go through the ******* roof with minimal new revenue (average AD's expenses in the AAC are just south of $50M, or an increase of around $20M from what we run now). It doesn't make any sense to do this from UT's perspective. Also, given my joint fandom and all the other jazz, I would love to see Toledo and Cincinnati in the same conference, however, there is absolutely no sane rationale that would make sense for the AAC to add Toledo.

Well, as Boca stated, “ If we go FCS, it’s on our way to the bottom “ a slow death...
I know it’s a very REMOTE possibility for this all to transpire, but the pluses outweigh the negatives... Having Saturday football games back and being a part of a very very good b-ball conference( multiple bids and NCAA credits)... The metro populace of the Toledo area would IMO, take Rocket sports seriously... 04-cheers

The thing a lot of people fail to realize is that, generally, the MAC is already at the bottom of FBS. If anything, FCS may give us all a chance to build some actual history, rather than just playing for a game in a retirement community in mid December every year. It's kind of to the point now where we have to consider surviving over thriving...because there's a very realistic shot that if we continue operating the same way we have, neither of those two things will happen.
05-04-2020 11:07 AM
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DetroitRocket Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
Also, just heard that UT, in an effort to cut athletics expenses, is going to do same-day travel for football this year in all possible opportunities...so get ready to see some SUPER ****** first quarters in the fall if football happens. And if football doesn't happen this year, there is no way for Athletics to survive here.

We could try not staying at a fancy hotel the night before HOME games.

We could survive, even if it's at DII with 1/3 of the budget.
05-04-2020 11:37 AM
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MidnightBlueGold Offline
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RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 11:37 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Also, just heard that UT, in an effort to cut athletics expenses, is going to do same-day travel for football this year in all possible opportunities...so get ready to see some SUPER ****** first quarters in the fall if football happens. And if football doesn't happen this year, there is no way for Athletics to survive here.

We could try not staying at a fancy hotel the night before HOME games.

We could survive, even if it's at DII with 1/3 of the budget.


Looks like all G5 is going to start doing that...


05-04-2020 12:38 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
Sounds like a move to a separate G5 division.
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2020 12:43 PM by Boca Rocket.)
05-04-2020 12:43 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 12:43 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Sounds like a move to a separate G5 division.

Only conference that can actually follow two of those three (Coaching staffs and day trips for 2.5 hour games) is the MAC.
05-04-2020 01:02 PM
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FMRocket Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 12:43 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Sounds like a move to a separate G5 division.

Not a perfect scenario if excluded from the AAC...
I could see over half of that conference dropping to a separate G5 division... I always thought Toledo could compete with the Temple, Tulsa’s and East Carolina’s of the world...
Would surely beat dropping down to FCS level...
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2020 01:08 PM by FMRocket.)
05-04-2020 01:07 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 01:07 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 12:43 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Sounds like a move to a separate G5 division.

Not a perfect scenario if excluded from the AAC...
I could see over half of that conference dropping to a separate G5 division... I always thought Toledo could compete with the Temple, Tulsa’s and East Carolina’s of the world...
Would surely beat dropping down to FCS level...

You do realize doing something like that essentially the same thing that you're advocating against, right? Is competing against MTSU, Texas State, and Tulane for a "national championship" really any different than North Dakota State, James Madison, Dayton, and Idaho for one? At the end of the day, the same thing is happening, and if there is no legislation to reduce the scholarship counts or mandatory expenses or sports, a move down doesn't matter in the slightest.

The reason why I'm advocating for an FCS move is because it COULD keep the AD solvent. It would drop the necessary football scholarships down to 63 from 85, the mandatory number of sports to 14 from 16, and would allow for us to trim a whole hell of a lot of fat, including bloated coaching budgets, ridiculous spending for amenities to continue fighting an arms race we'll never compete in, and many other things that could serious take 50% of our latent expenses off of the books. The people arguing against it are not actually giving any viable reason outside of "it would be different" or "we'd be at the bottom of the totem pole"...guess what, we're already there, and now it's starting to hurt the University, not just the athletics department.

And I think you'd only see one AAC school drop down, Tulsa. All others are committed to competing at the highest level.
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2020 01:32 PM by BearcatMan.)
05-04-2020 01:12 PM
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UTerry Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 01:12 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 01:07 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 12:43 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Sounds like a move to a separate G5 division.

Not a perfect scenario if excluded from the AAC...
I could see over half of that conference dropping to a separate G5 division... I always thought Toledo could compete with the Temple, Tulsa’s and East Carolina’s of the world...
Would surely beat dropping down to FCS level...

You do realize doing something like that essentially the same thing that you're advocating against, right? Is competing against MTSU, Texas State, and Tulane for a "national championship" really any different than North Dakota State, James Madison, Dayton, and Idaho for one? At the end of the day, the same thing is happening, and if there is no legislation to reduce the scholarship counts or mandatory expenses or sports, a move down doesn't matter in the slightest.

The reason why I'm advocating for an FCS move is because it COULD keep the AD solvent. It would drop the necessary football scholarships down to 63 from 85, the mandatory number of sports to 14 from 16, and would allow for us to trim a whole hell of a lot of fat, including bloated coaching budgets, ridiculous spending for amenities to continue fighting an arms race we'll never compete in, and many other things that could serious take 50% of our latent expenses off of the books. The people arguing against it are not actually giving any viable reason outside of "it would be different" or "we'd be at the bottom of the totem pole"...guess what, we're already there, and now it's starting to hurt the University, not just the athletics department.

1) the biggest problem always has been and always will be it's affiliation with the MAC conference...… PERIOD!!!!!!

2) if Toledo were to drop down to FCS, not only will the number of football athletes will drop (85 to 63) but also the QUALITY of athletes will drop...… No more 3 stars... granted a few may fall thru the cracks of the P5 and G5 but the quality of Toledo Football on the field will fall off (I know I'm talking overall history of the program not about the couple strange bad years in the last few.....)

3) no more being a national name or televised games...… how often do you FCS games on TV (only occasionally when they are playing on a P5 schools conference network.......)
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2020 01:36 PM by UTerry.)
05-04-2020 01:35 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 01:35 PM)UTerry Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 01:12 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 01:07 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 12:43 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Sounds like a move to a separate G5 division.

Not a perfect scenario if excluded from the AAC...
I could see over half of that conference dropping to a separate G5 division... I always thought Toledo could compete with the Temple, Tulsa’s and East Carolina’s of the world...
Would surely beat dropping down to FCS level...

You do realize doing something like that essentially the same thing that you're advocating against, right? Is competing against MTSU, Texas State, and Tulane for a "national championship" really any different than North Dakota State, James Madison, Dayton, and Idaho for one? At the end of the day, the same thing is happening, and if there is no legislation to reduce the scholarship counts or mandatory expenses or sports, a move down doesn't matter in the slightest.

The reason why I'm advocating for an FCS move is because it COULD keep the AD solvent. It would drop the necessary football scholarships down to 63 from 85, the mandatory number of sports to 14 from 16, and would allow for us to trim a whole hell of a lot of fat, including bloated coaching budgets, ridiculous spending for amenities to continue fighting an arms race we'll never compete in, and many other things that could serious take 50% of our latent expenses off of the books. The people arguing against it are not actually giving any viable reason outside of "it would be different" or "we'd be at the bottom of the totem pole"...guess what, we're already there, and now it's starting to hurt the University, not just the athletics department.

1) the biggest problem always has been and always will be it's affiliation with the MAC conference...… PERIOD!!!!!!

2) if Toledo were to drop down to FCS, not only will the number of football athletes will drop (85 to 63) but also the QUALITY of athletes will drop...… No more 3 stars... granted a few may fall thru the cracks of the P5 and G5 but the quality of Toledo Football on the field will fall off (I know I'm talking overall history of the program not about the couple strange bad years in the last few.....)

3) no more being a national name or televised games...… how often do you FCS games on TV (only occasionally when they are playing on a P5 schools conference network.......)

This is the problem with a lot of Toledo fans...they really aren't a "national" name at all, and wouldn't register at all if not for the random MACtion games that people stumble upon...to think the Toledo is a national name in any way, shape, or form is incredibly naive/unaware. The amount of people even down in Cincinnati who weren't sure where Toledo even was when I was down there was much higher than I thought, and that's in our home state.
05-04-2020 01:43 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Should UT Cut Sports?
(05-04-2020 01:35 PM)UTerry Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 01:12 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 01:07 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(05-04-2020 12:43 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Sounds like a move to a separate G5 division.

Not a perfect scenario if excluded from the AAC...
I could see over half of that conference dropping to a separate G5 division... I always thought Toledo could compete with the Temple, Tulsa’s and East Carolina’s of the world...
Would surely beat dropping down to FCS level...

You do realize doing something like that essentially the same thing that you're advocating against, right? Is competing against MTSU, Texas State, and Tulane for a "national championship" really any different than North Dakota State, James Madison, Dayton, and Idaho for one? At the end of the day, the same thing is happening, and if there is no legislation to reduce the scholarship counts or mandatory expenses or sports, a move down doesn't matter in the slightest.

The reason why I'm advocating for an FCS move is because it COULD keep the AD solvent. It would drop the necessary football scholarships down to 63 from 85, the mandatory number of sports to 14 from 16, and would allow for us to trim a whole hell of a lot of fat, including bloated coaching budgets, ridiculous spending for amenities to continue fighting an arms race we'll never compete in, and many other things that could serious take 50% of our latent expenses off of the books. The people arguing against it are not actually giving any viable reason outside of "it would be different" or "we'd be at the bottom of the totem pole"...guess what, we're already there, and now it's starting to hurt the University, not just the athletics department.

1) the biggest problem always has been and always will be it's affiliation with the MAC conference...… PERIOD!!!!!!

2) if Toledo were to drop down to FCS, not only will the number of football athletes will drop (85 to 63) but also the QUALITY of athletes will drop...… No more 3 stars... granted a few may fall thru the cracks of the P5 and G5 but the quality of Toledo Football on the field will fall off (I know I'm talking overall history of the program not about the couple strange bad years in the last few.....)

3) no more being a national name or televised games...… how often do I'myou FCS games on TV (only occasionally when they are playing on a P5 schools conference network.......)

Might as well kill the Athletic Dept. and go to club sports. More savings there. Hey everybody can watch
the Big Ten. Why have a library with books, everything
can be downloaded. Get rid of excessive dorm rooms, class space, etc.
05-04-2020 01:51 PM
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