Myles Adams headed to the Panthers as an undrafted free agent.

And BTW I saw where the Panthers did a draft first and drafted all defensive players over the weekend. Matt Rhule laying down the defensive fist.

Nick Leverett signed with the Bucs as well.

(04-26-2020 07:11 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Myles Adams headed to the Panthers as an undrafted free agent.
And BTW I saw where the Panthers did a draft first and drafted all defensive players over the weekend. Matt Rhule laying down the defensive fist.

I've never been much of a Baylor fan, but I have to admit I like Matt Rhule.

Frank Okam, who is now the Asst DL coach for the Panthers, coached Adams during his freshman and sophomore years at Rice so there was a clear connection.

Gooseberry signed with the Falcons

Interesting that the two grad transfers on the OL signed as UFA (and we have another one coming in for next year who's sort of in the same skill category?). I'm not sure I recall any recent years where we had two guys on the OL sign as UFA.

I noticed a lot of draftees were from Texas high schools. This backs that up.

(04-26-2020 05:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I noticed a lot of draftees were from Texas high schools. This backs that up.

And 12 from the Greater Houston area.

(04-26-2020 06:16 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(04-26-2020 05:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I noticed a lot of draftees were from Texas high schools. This backs that up.

And 12 from the Greater Houston area.

And yet Texas college teams (and other teams with nearly all-Texas rosters, like the 2 New Mexico schools, etc.) might collectively be the worst in the country, certainly the worst they've ever been.

The number of good players coming out of Texas is a function of population. Period. But once the good ones are taken, pretty clearly a lot of coaches give kids too much credit just because their zip code starts with a 7.

(04-27-2020 04:07 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(04-26-2020 06:16 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(04-26-2020 05:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I noticed a lot of draftees were from Texas high schools. This backs that up.

And 12 from the Greater Houston area.

And yet Texas college teams (and other teams with nearly all-Texas rosters, like the 2 New Mexico schools, etc.) might collectively be the worst in the country, certainly the worst they've ever been.

The number of good players coming out of Texas is a function of population. Period. But once the good ones are taken, pretty clearly a lot of coaches give kids too much credit just because their zip code starts with a 7.

Though I agree that some people disregard population as a factor in how many FBS recruits the state produces, the level of play in TXHSFB is far better than other states.

On a per capita basis, TX is still up there in terms of FBS recruits produced (I think LA is #1). States like NY and IL under index the national average.

Over the past year, I've attended HS games in TX, MA, NY, and PA (a traditionally strong football state) and the quality of play is by far the highest in TX.

(04-27-2020 04:07 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(04-26-2020 06:16 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(04-26-2020 05:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I noticed a lot of draftees were from Texas high schools. This backs that up.

And 12 from the Greater Houston area.

And yet Texas college teams (and other teams with nearly all-Texas rosters, like the 2 New Mexico schools, etc.) might collectively be the worst in the country, certainly the worst they've ever been.

The number of good players coming out of Texas is a function of population. Period. But once the good ones are taken, pretty clearly a lot of coaches give kids too much credit just because their zip code starts with a 7.

Greater Houston population = 7 million
United States population = 328 million
Houston is 2.134% of the U.S.

In the 2020 draft, 12/255 players (4.706%) were from Greater Houston - more than double the amount were it merely a "function of population".

(04-27-2020 04:33 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(04-27-2020 04:07 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(04-26-2020 06:16 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(04-26-2020 05:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I noticed a lot of draftees were from Texas high schools. This backs that up.

And 12 from the Greater Houston area.

And yet Texas college teams (and other teams with nearly all-Texas rosters, like the 2 New Mexico schools, etc.) might collectively be the worst in the country, certainly the worst they've ever been.

The number of good players coming out of Texas is a function of population. Period. But once the good ones are taken, pretty clearly a lot of coaches give kids too much credit just because their zip code starts with a 7.

Though I agree that some people disregard population as a factor in how many FBS recruits the state produces, the level of play in TXHSFB is far better than other states.

On a per capita basis, TX is still up there in terms of FBS recruits produced (I think LA is #1). States like NY and IL under index the national average.

Over the past year, I've attended HS games in TX, MA, NY, and PA (a traditionally strong football state) and the quality of play is by far the highest in TX.

I don't doubt this at all, which just makes it even more of a conundrum that when college coaches essentially try to replicate this at the next level, with TX-centric rosters, the results are so mediocre.

I don't know what else to conclude besides college coaches systematically overrate Texas kids. Maybe there is something about the sport of football that makes it intrinsically difficult to identify which parts of a high-functioning whole are truly contributing (and perhaps conversely, to identify scholarship-worthy players from lesser-quality milieus). Maybe coaches get too blinded by measurables, and because of population (+ climate), Texas produces more kids with measurables to get blinded by.

(04-27-2020 06:42 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(04-27-2020 04:33 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(04-27-2020 04:07 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(04-26-2020 06:16 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(04-26-2020 05:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I noticed a lot of draftees were from Texas high schools. This backs that up.

And 12 from the Greater Houston area.

And yet Texas college teams (and other teams with nearly all-Texas rosters, like the 2 New Mexico schools, etc.) might collectively be the worst in the country, certainly the worst they've ever been.

The number of good players coming out of Texas is a function of population. Period. But once the good ones are taken, pretty clearly a lot of coaches give kids too much credit just because their zip code starts with a 7.

Though I agree that some people disregard population as a factor in how many FBS recruits the state produces, the level of play in TXHSFB is far better than other states.

On a per capita basis, TX is still up there in terms of FBS recruits produced (I think LA is #1). States like NY and IL under index the national average.

Over the past year, I've attended HS games in TX, MA, NY, and PA (a traditionally strong football state) and the quality of play is by far the highest in TX.

I don't doubt this at all, which just makes it even more of a conundrum that when college coaches essentially try to replicate this at the next level, with TX-centric rosters, the results are so mediocre.

I don't know what else to conclude besides college coaches systematically overrate Texas kids. Maybe there is something about the sport of football that makes it intrinsically difficult to identify which parts of a high-functioning whole are truly contributing (and perhaps conversely, to identify scholarship-worthy players from lesser-quality milieus). Maybe coaches get too blinded by measurables, and because of population (+ climate), Texas produces more kids with measurables to get blinded by.

quite honestly you are very incorrect. Texas kids are on every P5 program BECAUSE quite honestly they are better. They have been in college type atmosphere for most of their lives. As a former HS coach I flat out asked D1 coaches why do you come to Texas and value our players the way you do. His response "1. these kids can flat out play. They are some of the best in the country. 2. they see stiff competition week in and week out, even in the weaker districts, so we know what we are seeing on the film is a kid that can play. Not a kid that is playing against weak kids and looks great. 3. your kids are more college ready. they see complex schemes week in and week out as well as they have to execute complex schemes. In short we don't have to teach them as much because they are way ahead of kids from other states. 4. Your kids know about being in a PROGRAM. they've been lifting seriously for years, they know about summer work outs, the "get" what it takes to be successful."

Texas kids aren't over valued they are valued exactly as they should be cause quite simply our 2nd tier teams would wreck havoc in any other state.

As far as why do our Texas schools not do as well, its a numbers game. Out of the 13 kids drafted, 8 went to school outside of Texas. Why is that? Lets look at the numbers there are 11 FBS schools in the state of Texas, the next closest state is Florida with 7. Now if you take into account that you have OU, OSU, Ark, and LSU within7-8hrs of every major city but El Paso you are essentially looking at 15 schools in roughly an 8hr radius of each other. That's hell to recruit against. Now throw in that EVERY major program understands the value of our players and now you are fighting against Bama, Aub, Ohio St, USC, UF, FSU, UM, etc. So to put this in actual perspective for you.....if you just take the state of Texas' 11 teams and lets say that every Texas top 100 kid goes to an in state school, that's less than 10 kids per team.

Then some kids want to leave state just so they can see something different. so pretty quickly you get to having a depleted list. I personally feel that the Texas schools aren't creating PROGRAMS for these kids. By programs I mean they aren't setting the kids up for the nfl, regardless if they are going to go or not, that has to be your approach. Put them in business classes to manage money, ensure you are developing them and you are promoting them to the nfl. What opened my eyes was the interview with Saban and how he helped Hurts decide on OU. He said from the beginning of his career at Bama the discussion was if going into your sr year you aren't starting you will transfer, well that was the case, so saban sat down with him and helped dissect what school was best for him. Maryland had his OC for the past 3 yrs and Miami had his most recent qb coach. He wanted to go there because the coaches would develop a system for him to succeed. Saban told him go to the school that has the best athletes. You have one year to increase your value, OU is your best bet for that. If more coaches took this approach as opposed to trying to keep these kids as long as possible they would simply reload every year with great talent....jmo.

(05-11-2020 10:43 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Then some kids want to leave state just so they can see something different. so pretty quickly you get to having a depleted list. I personally feel that the Texas schools aren't creating PROGRAMS for these kids. By programs I mean they aren't setting the kids up for the nfl, regardless if they are going to go or not, that has to be your approach. Put them in business classes to manage money, ensure you are developing them and you are promoting them to the nfl. What opened my eyes was the interview with Saban and how he helped Hurts decide on OU. He said from the beginning of his career at Bama the discussion was if going into your sr year you aren't starting you will transfer, well that was the case, so saban sat down with him and helped dissect what school was best for him. Maryland had his OC for the past 3 yrs and Miami had his most recent qb coach. He wanted to go there because the coaches would develop a system for him to succeed. Saban told him go to the school that has the best athletes. You have one year to increase your value, OU is your best bet for that. If more coaches took this approach as opposed to trying to keep these kids as long as possible they would simply reload every year with great talent....jmo.

Saban has a radio call-in show that I heard one night while back in 'Bama visiting family. Kid called in and asked, "I'm in the eight grade and pretty good in football and I really want to play for the Crimson Tide. What should I work on?"

Saban's reply, without knowing anything about the kid, "Your grades."

Like him or not, he very much about the total development of his players in every area--athletic, academic, social, spiritual. I think that is the big secret to his success. It's all about the system. You buy in, and you will succeed. That's pretty powerful stuff to 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22 year olds.

(05-11-2020 11:13 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-11-2020 10:43 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Then some kids want to leave state just so they can see something different. so pretty quickly you get to having a depleted list. I personally feel that the Texas schools aren't creating PROGRAMS for these kids. By programs I mean they aren't setting the kids up for the nfl, regardless if they are going to go or not, that has to be your approach. Put them in business classes to manage money, ensure you are developing them and you are promoting them to the nfl. What opened my eyes was the interview with Saban and how he helped Hurts decide on OU. He said from the beginning of his career at Bama the discussion was if going into your sr year you aren't starting you will transfer, well that was the case, so saban sat down with him and helped dissect what school was best for him. Maryland had his OC for the past 3 yrs and Miami had his most recent qb coach. He wanted to go there because the coaches would develop a system for him to succeed. Saban told him go to the school that has the best athletes. You have one year to increase your value, OU is your best bet for that. If more coaches took this approach as opposed to trying to keep these kids as long as possible they would simply reload every year with great talent....jmo.

Saban has a radio call-in show that I heard one night while back in 'Bama visiting family. Kid called in and asked, "I'm in the eight grade and pretty good in football and I really want to play for the Crimson Tide. What should I work on?"

Saban's reply, without knowing anything about the kid, "Your grades."

Like him or not, he very much about the total development of his players in every area--athletic, academic, social, spiritual. I think that is the big secret to his success. It's all about the system. You buy in, and you will succeed. That's pretty powerful stuff to 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22 year olds.

Exactly.....he has a PROGRAM. Follow the program and you're good, whether you go to the nfl or not he's got you. That's what's lacking from the Texas schools. I think they don't have strong enough full programs to entice the kids, not athletics, but PROGRAMS.

(05-11-2020 02:41 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  

(05-11-2020 11:13 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-11-2020 10:43 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Then some kids want to leave state just so they can see something different. so pretty quickly you get to having a depleted list. I personally feel that the Texas schools aren't creating PROGRAMS for these kids. By programs I mean they aren't setting the kids up for the nfl, regardless if they are going to go or not, that has to be your approach. Put them in business classes to manage money, ensure you are developing them and you are promoting them to the nfl. What opened my eyes was the interview with Saban and how he helped Hurts decide on OU. He said from the beginning of his career at Bama the discussion was if going into your sr year you aren't starting you will transfer, well that was the case, so saban sat down with him and helped dissect what school was best for him. Maryland had his OC for the past 3 yrs and Miami had his most recent qb coach. He wanted to go there because the coaches would develop a system for him to succeed. Saban told him go to the school that has the best athletes. You have one year to increase your value, OU is your best bet for that. If more coaches took this approach as opposed to trying to keep these kids as long as possible they would simply reload every year with great talent....jmo.

Saban has a radio call-in show that I heard one night while back in 'Bama visiting family. Kid called in and asked, "I'm in the eight grade and pretty good in football and I really want to play for the Crimson Tide. What should I work on?"

Saban's reply, without knowing anything about the kid, "Your grades."

Like him or not, he very much about the total development of his players in every area--athletic, academic, social, spiritual. I think that is the big secret to his success. It's all about the system. You buy in, and you will succeed. That's pretty powerful stuff to 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22 year olds.

Exactly.....he has a PROGRAM. Follow the program and you're good, whether you go to the nfl or not he's got you. That's what's lacking from the Texas schools. I think they don't have strong enough full programs to entice the kids, not athletics, but PROGRAMS.

So playing the hypothetical game, how would Texas college football (UT, Rice, A&M, et al) have been affected had Nick Saban decided to coach at UT?

(05-11-2020 04:32 PM)Pan95 Wrote:  

(05-11-2020 02:41 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  

(05-11-2020 11:13 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-11-2020 10:43 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Then some kids want to leave state just so they can see something different. so pretty quickly you get to having a depleted list. I personally feel that the Texas schools aren't creating PROGRAMS for these kids. By programs I mean they aren't setting the kids up for the nfl, regardless if they are going to go or not, that has to be your approach. Put them in business classes to manage money, ensure you are developing them and you are promoting them to the nfl. What opened my eyes was the interview with Saban and how he helped Hurts decide on OU. He said from the beginning of his career at Bama the discussion was if going into your sr year you aren't starting you will transfer, well that was the case, so saban sat down with him and helped dissect what school was best for him. Maryland had his OC for the past 3 yrs and Miami had his most recent qb coach. He wanted to go there because the coaches would develop a system for him to succeed. Saban told him go to the school that has the best athletes. You have one year to increase your value, OU is your best bet for that. If more coaches took this approach as opposed to trying to keep these kids as long as possible they would simply reload every year with great talent....jmo.

Saban has a radio call-in show that I heard one night while back in 'Bama visiting family. Kid called in and asked, "I'm in the eight grade and pretty good in football and I really want to play for the Crimson Tide. What should I work on?"

Saban's reply, without knowing anything about the kid, "Your grades."

Like him or not, he very much about the total development of his players in every area--athletic, academic, social, spiritual. I think that is the big secret to his success. It's all about the system. You buy in, and you will succeed. That's pretty powerful stuff to 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22 year olds.

Exactly.....he has a PROGRAM. Follow the program and you're good, whether you go to the nfl or not he's got you. That's what's lacking from the Texas schools. I think they don't have strong enough full programs to entice the kids, not athletics, but PROGRAMS.

So playing the hypothetical game, how would Texas college football (UT, Rice, A&M, et al) have been affected had Nick Saban decided to coach at UT?

If he were at UT he would enjoy the same success that he has at Bama. It isn't solely about resources, i repeat PROGRAM. It wouldn't affect the other schools just like him being at Bama doesn't affect Auburn(at least not directly). Him being in state wouldn't make kids go to those other schools any more or less. Again it isn't about the whole state it is about what you as a coach team are doing for kids. My son will be a Jr next year. Had a great season. As we begin looking into schools we are looking for the best PROGRAM for him. Who is going to develop him to his fullest potential, what kind of weight lifting program do they have, nutrition program, medical program in case of injury, what kind of summer opportunities do they offer as far as internships for post graduation careers, do they have them taking money management classes, do the coaches adjust to their players or do they do one thing and you have to fit into what they do, etc. All of these things factor into kids going to a school or not. Kids are a lot smarter now days and they actually do their research. It's harder to fool kid now. Now are there still those kids that make emotional pledges because said school is a big time school and it doesn't fit them? yes, they do, but more kid are looking at what the total program offers as opposed to facilities and the name alone. Finally kids want to realize their dreams, playing in the nfl. If you have zero pull with the nfl and aren't at least having your best players get signed as FA kids are looking elsewhere. Too many coaches are more concerned with their winning and don't realize that if you are developing the players highlighting the players and putting the players in position to showcase their skills...you'll win. You also will have a bunch of happy kids and that translates to getting the recruits you want at your school.

Recruiting kids isn't hard but coaches have to be willing to put their ego aside and think about kids first. Honestly that's why Mack Brown did so well. He was about his kids. Those players loved him and rather play at UT than leave early. They KNEW he got them and history showed, he did. IMO what happened to Mack is that he lost control of his kids. He became too much of a players coach and lost the ability or chose not to pull their cord when they got out of line. I think in his attempt to continue to think only about the kids he let the inmates run the asylum, so to speak(not saying UT kids are thugs, inmates, or bad kids....just using an old country saying). Look at what he did in one year at UNC, took Clemson to the brink. He has always been able to get his kids to buy in and kids love being in his PROGRAM.

(05-12-2020 11:15 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Recruiting kids isn't hard but coaches have to be willing to put their ego aside and think about kids first. Honestly that's why Mack Brown did so well. He was about his kids. Those players loved him and rather play at UT than leave early. They KNEW he got them and history showed, he did. IMO what happened to Mack is that he lost control of his kids. He became too much of a players coach and lost the ability or chose not to pull their cord when they got out of line. I think in his attempt to continue to think only about the kids he let the inmates run the asylum, so to speak(not saying UT kids are thugs, inmates, or bad kids....just using an old country saying). Look at what he did in one year at UNC, took Clemson to the brink. He has always been able to get his kids to buy in and kids love being in his PROGRAM.

I think Mack sort of lost control of some of his coaching staff, and that was reflected in losing control of the kids.

It's pretty easy to say 'work on your grades' when you can literally get anyone in. The advantage a school like Alabama has is that they can choose to take a risk on a guy and have the resources (and easy classes) to keep anyone eligible with a pulse... but they're going to do even better with guys who are either smart enough, or have learned good study habits etc and thus can pass most classes without much effort, at least during the season... so they can be 90% football and 10% student in the fall.... and 50/50 in the spring. At Rice, guys have to be more like 50/50 all year.... because with less than 50% effort on grades, you're going to struggle to stay eligible.

Obviously a gross generalization, but I think you guys understand my point?