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Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
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pvk75 Offline
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Post: #1
Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
(Please don't kill the messenger ... )

Over on the csnbbs conference/realignment board, they have a couple polls going on which D1 school will drop first. Chicago State came in on top one poll (so far). In the thread, some posters suggested NIU could absorb CSU as its Chicago campus.

Just like any other board/thread, there are some good ideas and some real clunkers.

Just posting fyi and for comment.
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2020 10:04 PM by pvk75.)
04-25-2020 10:03 PM
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Stay Cool Offline
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Post: #2
Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
Oh please make it happen, it has so much upside

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04-25-2020 10:17 PM
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Big Red Offline
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RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
(04-25-2020 10:17 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  Oh please make it happen, it has so much upside

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Out of curiosity, what are the upsides?
04-25-2020 10:47 PM
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Stay Cool Offline
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RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
(04-25-2020 10:47 PM)Big Red Wrote:  
(04-25-2020 10:17 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  Oh please make it happen, it has so much upside

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Out of curiosity, what are the upsides?
I feel like a Chicago campus speaks for itself

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04-25-2020 11:23 PM
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NIU1981 Offline
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RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
(04-25-2020 11:23 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  
(04-25-2020 10:47 PM)Big Red Wrote:  
(04-25-2020 10:17 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  Oh please make it happen, it has so much upside

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Out of curiosity, what are the upsides?
I feel like a Chicago campus speaks for itself

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The location is not good though, which is one of the reasons why CSU struggles
04-25-2020 11:39 PM
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Stay Cool Offline
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Post: #6
Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
There's a few good points to be made in the thread on the CS & CR board

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04-25-2020 11:56 PM
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RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
(04-25-2020 11:56 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  There's a few good points to be made in the thread on the CS & CR board

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Where are all the good points?

I read through the page and a half of the comments. Most talk about Presbyterian. The one's about NIU/Chicago State focus on two things. One being a Chicago campus and comparing it to SIU and SIUe. The other is having the basketball team play a game or two at the Chicago State campus (which is not in a very good location...worse than SeatGeek Stadium unless you think northsiders are cool about walking 20 minutes to the arena from the 95th and Dan Ryan Red Line stop or the suburb folk are eager to drive into Roseland).

How is that a benefit to absorbing the Chicago State campus? And, if it is comparable to SIU/SIUe, they would both have their own separate athletic programs and teams. Why would NIU play at the other campus? SIU sure as heck never plays any games in Edwardsville.

If there is a comparison to be made, I would think it would be Long Island University which. The year before, the athletic program was LIU-Brooklyn and this year they combined with D-II LIU-Post. But even in that scenario, they were both LIU schools. I guess this would be akin to SIU and SIUe combining their athletic programs into one.

Honestly, I don't know how an NIU/Chicago State merger would compare to anything of recent history. Either way, I still don't see the good points that were made on that other thread.
04-26-2020 12:41 AM
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pvk75 Offline
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RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
I started the thread because anything that mentions NIU might possibly be of interest on this board.

That said, I read the cs & cr board comments, and it was immediately obvious that those posters did nothing more than look at a map.
04-26-2020 12:58 AM
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Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
Why in the hell would NIU want to absorb Chicago State? That is the most stupid idea of the century. A failing university in a dangerous area is not on President Freeman’s Christmas list.
04-26-2020 09:09 AM
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Stay Cool Offline
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Post: #10
Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
We could actually say we have a footprint in the Chicagoland area rather than the furthest west possible (barely) scrape of it

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(This post was last modified: 04-26-2020 09:39 AM by Stay Cool.)
04-26-2020 09:39 AM
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niu1980 Offline
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RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
University of Illinois - Champaign-Urbana - Division I
University of Illinois - Chicago - Division I - No Football
University of Illinois - Springfield - Division II - No Football

NIU - DeKalb - Division I
NIU - Chicago - Division I, II - No Football or Division III - Possibly Football

The neighborhood around Chicago State is very similar to what it was around UIC 20 years ago. Neighborhoods evolve and city universities can do that. Think Northwestern Medicines’s Community Health Clinic at NIU - Chicago evolving into a hospital 30 years from now.

Think big. Hey the doom and gloomers on this board think NIU won’t exist next year. Maybe they’re right. So take a chance, think out of the box, what is there to lose?
04-26-2020 09:39 AM
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Post: #12
RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
(04-26-2020 09:39 AM)niu1980 Wrote:  University of Illinois - Champaign-Urbana - Division I
University of Illinois - Chicago - Division I - No Football
University of Illinois - Springfield - Division II - No Football

NIU - DeKalb - Division I
NIU - Chicago - Division I, II - No Football or Division III - Possibly Football

The neighborhood around Chicago State is very similar to what it was around UIC 20 years ago. Neighborhoods evolve and city universities can do that. Think Northwestern Medicines’s Community Health Clinic at NIU - Chicago evolving into a hospital 30 years from now.

Think big. Hey the doom and gloomers on this board think NIU won’t exist next year. Maybe they’re right. So take a chance, think out of the box, what is there to lose?

The difference between the locations of the two campuses is night and day. Having your chicago footprint be the gateway to the most inaccessible areas in the city is not something to strive for.

If you want to "absorb" a city college, absorb Northeastern Illinois. I have no clue about their financials but at least that school has a good location that could be marketed.

Either way. I guess I'm not sure what people mean by "absorb" Chicago State when the examples given are SIU/SIUe and UofI/UIC/UIS.

To the best of my knowledge, those schools all work pretty independent of each other, especially from an athletics standpoint. I can't imagine SIUe does anything to boost enrollment at SIU (from what I've heard, it actually hurts their enrollment). I know that UofI and UIC partner on some programs (mostly medical, I think) but I'm not sure of the benefit between either of those schools and UIS. Honestly, I thought I heard at one point that the name change to UIS was done for marketing purposes designed to help out the Springfield school and had literally zero positive effects on the other two.

Simply put, I don't even think the people on that CSN board were looking at a map or, it they were, have no clue about the dynamics or size of Chicago (and exactly where Roseland actually is).

Just having a Chicago address wouldn't do anything for NIU just like I'm sure having NIU attached their name does nothing to help out Chicago State.
04-26-2020 10:10 AM
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Post: #13
RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
Northeastern might make some sense but CSU is in a lower income area that is far removed from downtown, the lakefront and anywhere else of interest to potential students.
04-26-2020 10:17 AM
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Post: #14
RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
Let's absorb Prairie State College and call the combo Prairie State University. Goodbye compass name anchor.
04-26-2020 11:12 AM
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niu1980 Offline
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RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
(04-26-2020 10:10 AM)Big Red Wrote:  
(04-26-2020 09:39 AM)niu1980 Wrote:  University of Illinois - Champaign-Urbana - Division I
University of Illinois - Chicago - Division I - No Football
University of Illinois - Springfield - Division II - No Football

NIU - DeKalb - Division I
NIU - Chicago - Division I, II - No Football or Division III - Possibly Football

The neighborhood around Chicago State is very similar to what it was around UIC 20 years ago. Neighborhoods evolve and city universities can do that. Think Northwestern Medicines’s Community Health Clinic at NIU - Chicago evolving into a hospital 30 years from now.

Think big. Hey the doom and gloomers on this board think NIU won’t exist next year. Maybe they’re right. So take a chance, think out of the box, what is there to lose?

The difference between the locations of the two campuses is night and day. Having your chicago footprint be the gateway to the most inaccessible areas in the city is not something to strive for.

If you want to "absorb" a city college, absorb Northeastern Illinois. I have no clue about their financials but at least that school has a good location that could be marketed.

Either way. I guess I'm not sure what people mean by "absorb" Chicago State when the examples given are SIU/SIUe and UofI/UIC/UIS.

To the best of my knowledge, those schools all work pretty independent of each other, especially from an athletics standpoint. I can't imagine SIUe does anything to boost enrollment at SIU (from what I've heard, it actually hurts their enrollment). I know that UofI and UIC partner on some programs (mostly medical, I think) but I'm not sure of the benefit between either of those schools and UIS. Honestly, I thought I heard at one point that the name change to UIS was done for marketing purposes designed to help out the Springfield school and had literally zero positive effects on the other two.

Simply put, I don't even think the people on that CSN board were looking at a map or, it they were, have no clue about the dynamics or size of Chicago (and exactly where Roseland actually is).

Just having a Chicago address wouldn't do anything for NIU just like I'm sure having NIU attached their name does nothing to help out Chicago State.

You make some good points that certainly would be part of any evaluation. Not sure what you mean by an inaccessible location. The location is right off of a major interstate, much like UIC. It is in a neighborhood that many would say go to campus and stay on campus until your school day is done much like UIC was up until 20 to 30 years ago. I understand there would be many risks to an endeavor like this. I am not even saying it should be seriously considered. But talking about it can bring out new ideas, like mentioning a Northeastern as maybe an option.

What if NIU hooked up with a Comcast or an AT&T to promote adding more internet service to more homes in the south and southeast sides of Chicago with discounted rates and promoted the Chicago campus for an online initiative much like Arizona State or Liberty and it became the hub for in person testing, optional supplemental in person classroom work, counseling, academic advisor support, tutoring opportunities, athletic programs, etc.

Someone at Liberty, Grand Canyon and Arizona State said we can grow to 100,000 students by doing this. Those are three completely different institutions, private, for profit, and public. Took a chance.
04-26-2020 11:24 AM
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RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
Terrible idea, never would happen anyway.
04-26-2020 11:33 AM
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Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
(04-26-2020 11:33 AM)JB04 Wrote:  Terrible idea, never would happen anyway.


Yep. The dreamers on this board all smoke some potent stuff. Absorb a college in dire straits in a neighborhood where you risk your life? Ha!!! I have never heard of anything so stupid and ludicrous. NIU should just concentrate on saving itself from extinction.
04-26-2020 03:12 PM
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RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
(04-26-2020 03:12 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  
(04-26-2020 11:33 AM)JB04 Wrote:  Terrible idea, never would happen anyway.


Yep. The dreamers on this board all smoke some potent stuff. Absorb a college in dire straits in a neighborhood where you risk your life? Ha!!! I have never heard of anything so stupid and ludicrous. NIU should just concentrate on saving itself from extinction.
You say that now, but they actually planned on rebuilding The Grotto right in the heart of NIU-Chicago in their master plan...

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04-26-2020 03:14 PM
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pvk75 Offline
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RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
NBC Chicago did a study in 2016 comparing violent crime rates reported by universities to the U.S. Dept. of Ed. and violent crimes reported to police within two blocks of campus. No surprise that all the Chicago schools reported much lower campus rates, but I think they're only required to report crimes actually committed on campus. In the News5 report, all rates within two blocks were higher, but CSU's was the worst ... 20 times the rate CSU reported to the USDE.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/cr...es/102725/

Also, there is a string of news reports going back many, many years about the lack of financial control at CSU, questionable activity and even corruption.

I think a Chicago campus would be a good idea for NIU for a lot of reasons, but NIU "solving" those problems for Chicago State and its neighborhood is not one of them.
04-26-2020 04:09 PM
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RE: Chicago State drop from D1? ... or is it NIU-Chicago?
(04-26-2020 11:24 AM)niu1980 Wrote:  
(04-26-2020 10:10 AM)Big Red Wrote:  
(04-26-2020 09:39 AM)niu1980 Wrote:  University of Illinois - Champaign-Urbana - Division I
University of Illinois - Chicago - Division I - No Football
University of Illinois - Springfield - Division II - No Football

NIU - DeKalb - Division I
NIU - Chicago - Division I, II - No Football or Division III - Possibly Football

The neighborhood around Chicago State is very similar to what it was around UIC 20 years ago. Neighborhoods evolve and city universities can do that. Think Northwestern Medicines’s Community Health Clinic at NIU - Chicago evolving into a hospital 30 years from now.

Think big. Hey the doom and gloomers on this board think NIU won’t exist next year. Maybe they’re right. So take a chance, think out of the box, what is there to lose?

The difference between the locations of the two campuses is night and day. Having your chicago footprint be the gateway to the most inaccessible areas in the city is not something to strive for.

If you want to "absorb" a city college, absorb Northeastern Illinois. I have no clue about their financials but at least that school has a good location that could be marketed.

Either way. I guess I'm not sure what people mean by "absorb" Chicago State when the examples given are SIU/SIUe and UofI/UIC/UIS.

To the best of my knowledge, those schools all work pretty independent of each other, especially from an athletics standpoint. I can't imagine SIUe does anything to boost enrollment at SIU (from what I've heard, it actually hurts their enrollment). I know that UofI and UIC partner on some programs (mostly medical, I think) but I'm not sure of the benefit between either of those schools and UIS. Honestly, I thought I heard at one point that the name change to UIS was done for marketing purposes designed to help out the Springfield school and had literally zero positive effects on the other two.

Simply put, I don't even think the people on that CSN board were looking at a map or, it they were, have no clue about the dynamics or size of Chicago (and exactly where Roseland actually is).

Just having a Chicago address wouldn't do anything for NIU just like I'm sure having NIU attached their name does nothing to help out Chicago State.

You make some good points that certainly would be part of any evaluation. Not sure what you mean by an inaccessible location. The location is right off of a major interstate, much like UIC. It is in a neighborhood that many would say go to campus and stay on campus until your school day is done much like UIC was up until 20 to 30 years ago. I understand there would be many risks to an endeavor like this. I am not even saying it should be seriously considered. But talking about it can bring out new ideas, like mentioning a Northeastern as maybe an option.

What if NIU hooked up with a Comcast or an AT&T to promote adding more internet service to more homes in the south and southeast sides of Chicago with discounted rates and promoted the Chicago campus for an online initiative much like Arizona State or Liberty and it became the hub for in person testing, optional supplemental in person classroom work, counseling, academic advisor support, tutoring opportunities, athletic programs, etc.

Someone at Liberty, Grand Canyon and Arizona State said we can grow to 100,000 students by doing this. Those are three completely different institutions, private, for profit, and public. Took a chance.

To answer your question, Chicago State is definitely in the area of Roseland that is most accessible to people not from the area and it's still not that accessable as the red line stop is a good distance away and there's no opportunity to make the stop closer (like they did with United Center and UIC and West Loop, etc.) because that is the absolute last stop on the line. Think about that. Chicago extends as far south in areas all the way to 138th street yet the absolute farthest south you can take the train is 95th street. Metra goes down that way but it's a commuter train that runs every 2 hours on the weekend and on a strict schedule throughout the week.

Needless to say, the campus isn't going to draw from any area than what it does right now, and it's struggling for students in an area that has extreme poverty, almost zero development, and a declining population. The far south side is cut off from the rest of the city in so many ways. Yes, CSU is at the very north end of this isolation area (you could call it segregation) and is an uber drive (if you can get one) from the closest L stop. That's not a selling point.
04-26-2020 05:04 PM
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