(04-18-2020 02:57 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 01:57 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 11:27 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 09:50 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Kansas is not a P5 football program normally as they perpetually lose badly.

This is a non sequitur, as a "P5 program" is one in a P5 conference.

Quote: It wouldn't be hard for WSU to exceed the Jayhawks shortly.

This, by contrast, appears delusional. A university which hasn't fielded a football team since 1986 and which hadn't experienced success on the Gridiron since the 1960s is going to quickly establish an FBS program capable of beating even a bad P5 team?

It is delusional.....pure and simple.

KU has been equivalent to Costal Carolina, Indiana St, the Nicholas St by losing so it truly ridiculous to be cast as a powerful P5 program. Saying it's program deserves to be P5 strength is delusional.

KU has just invested $300 million in their program. They have had a decent program with Orange bowl teams etc until they made a series of bad coaching hires. They now have hired Les Miles who has won at OSU and LSU.

You cannnot evaluate the KU football program on the last few years, but their history. If their football program was as bad as you say why would there be speculation of them going to the Big10 or SEC?

However, the delusional reference was NOT about KU, but WSU and about saying "It wouldn't be hard for WSU to exceed the Jayhawks shortly"

That is what the other poster and I referred to as delusional.

WSU used to be in the MVC with Cincinnati, Memphis, Tulane,and Tulsa so it would only be natural to want a full reunion with them.

(04-18-2020 03:20 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 02:57 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 01:57 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 11:27 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 09:50 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Kansas is not a P5 football program normally as they perpetually lose badly.

This is a non sequitur, as a "P5 program" is one in a P5 conference.

Quote: It wouldn't be hard for WSU to exceed the Jayhawks shortly.

This, by contrast, appears delusional. A university which hasn't fielded a football team since 1986 and which hadn't experienced success on the Gridiron since the 1960s is going to quickly establish an FBS program capable of beating even a bad P5 team?

It is delusional.....pure and simple.

KU has been equivalent to Costal Carolina, Indiana St, the Nicholas St by losing so it truly ridiculous to be cast as a powerful P5 program. Saying it's program deserves to be P5 strength is delusional.

KU has just invested $300 million in their program. They have had a decent program with Orange bowl teams etc until they made a series of bad coaching hires. They now have hired Les Miles who has won at OSU and LSU.

You cannnot evaluate the KU football program on the last few years, but their history. If their football program was as bad as you say why would there be speculation of them going to the Big10 or SEC?

However, the delusional reference was NOT about KU, but WSU and about saying "It wouldn't be hard for WSU to exceed the Jayhawks shortly"

That is what the other poster and I referred to as delusional.

So WSU beating, not losing to Coastal Carolina, Nicholas St And Ind St is totally delusional.

It's not like WSU would be spending zero money.

(04-18-2020 03:24 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 03:20 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 02:57 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 01:57 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 11:27 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  This is a non sequitur, as a "P5 program" is one in a P5 conference.



This, by contrast, appears delusional. A university which hasn't fielded a football team since 1986 and which hadn't experienced success on the Gridiron since the 1960s is going to quickly establish an FBS program capable of beating even a bad P5 team?

It is delusional.....pure and simple.

KU has been equivalent to Costal Carolina, Indiana St, the Nicholas St by losing so it truly ridiculous to be cast as a powerful P5 program. Saying it's program deserves to be P5 strength is delusional.

KU has just invested $300 million in their program. They have had a decent program with Orange bowl teams etc until they made a series of bad coaching hires. They now have hired Les Miles who has won at OSU and LSU.

You cannnot evaluate the KU football program on the last few years, but their history. If their football program was as bad as you say why would there be speculation of them going to the Big10 or SEC?

However, the delusional reference was NOT about KU, but WSU and about saying "It wouldn't be hard for WSU to exceed the Jayhawks shortly"

That is what the other poster and I referred to as delusional.

So WSU beating, not losing to Coastal Carolina, Nicholas St And Ind St is totally delusional.

It's not like WSU would be spending zero money.

Thinking you can beat other teams when you do not even have a football team is delusional. I will not waste any more time with you. Good bye.

(04-18-2020 03:24 PM)NoDak Wrote:  So WSU beating, not losing to Coastal Carolina, Nicholas St And Ind St is totally delusional.

It's not like WSU would be spending zero money.

But how does this impact the Great Northern?

(04-18-2020 10:57 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 03:24 PM)NoDak Wrote:  So WSU beating, not losing to Coastal Carolina, Nicholas St And Ind St is totally delusional.

It's not like WSU would be spending zero money.

But how does this impact the Great Northern?

Great Northern has beaten Kansas, Kansas St, and Iowa St this decade are so it doesn't matter.

Article from "Athletic Business":

Wichita State University has received approval on a proposal to tear down 74-year-old Cessna Stadium and build a new, smaller multipurpose stadium in its place. WSU president Jay Golden envisions a smaller facility that will host soccer, lacrosse, and track and field.

So resurrecting a football program is not in the cards for Wichita State. Instead they will be emphasizing their other sports.

(04-19-2020 03:37 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  Article from "Athletic Business":

Wichita State University has received approval on a proposal to tear down 74-year-old Cessna Stadium and build a new, smaller multipurpose stadium in its place. WSU president Jay Golden envisions a smaller facility that will host soccer, lacrosse, and track and field.

So resurrecting a football program is not in the cards for Wichita State. Instead they will be emphasizing their other sports.

I hate rags like this that read a headline and write an article on it. Football wasn't coming back to Cessna either way and that decision was made after the move to AAC. The cost to get Cessna up to AAC standards was prohibitively expense and thus cheaper to build new. I'm not saying Football is in the immediate future it was just clear that football like we want could never be played at Cessna.

(04-19-2020 05:37 PM)Shox Wrote:  [quote='SMUstang' pid='16785497' dateline='1587328658']
Article from "Athletic Business":

Wichita State University has received approval on a proposal to tear down 74-year-old Cessna Stadium and build a new, smaller multipurpose stadium in its place. WSU president Jay Golden envisions a smaller facility that will host soccer, lacrosse, and track and field.

So resurrecting a football program is not in the cards for Wichita State. Instead they will be emphasizing their other sports.

I hate rags like this that read a headline and write an article on it. Football wasn't coming back to Cessna either way and that decision was made after the move to AAC. The cost to get Cessna up to AAC standards was prohibitively expense and thus cheaper to build new. I'm not saying Football is in the immediate future it was just clear that football like we want could never be played at Cessna.
[/quote

I wonder if, in the wings, there is a sugar daddy with enough funding to tear down the old stadium and build the new stadium. If I am not mistaken, the basketball arena was funded by the Koch brothers.

(04-18-2020 04:34 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-17-2020 02:03 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-17-2020 01:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 11:40 PM)NoDak Wrote:  WSU knows that AAC football .membership will not be easy. They will have to form a winning tradition and then maybe get in. There will be other FBS programs that will soon appear, like Mo St and. NDSU. NDSU's AD has said they will make a decision of FBS within a couple of years, so it is already planned.

WSU is in a lightly populated basketball state that already has 2 P5 schools. Football just doesn't make sense for them.

So the same could be said for Kentucky, Mississippi, Oklahoma,
Colorado, Utah, Louisiana, etc.

Yeah, the same could be said for Mississippi and Oklahoma ... it's not clear that this would be a good time for Southern Miss or Tulsa to start up a program if they were not already established.

Utah is not really comparable, since BYU draws support from Mormon populations across the West, so it's not really as constrained by its local population as many other Universities.

Louisiana has 50% more population, and is one of the top five or so recruiting grounds in the country, which indicates that football support will be larger for the same population, and has only one P5 program to support ... and the challenges of one of its programs to maintain FBS level athletic department budgets and facilities suggests that 1 P5 and 4 Go5 schools might indeed by one too many.

Kentucky: 50% more population, 2P5 and 1 Go5 school
Colorado: Twice the population, 1P5 and 2 Go5 schools, one a Military Academy
... either of those are evidence for the other side ... if that is what can be comfortably supported, a state with Kansas's population and 2 P5 schools could well be considered to be fully stocked with FBS football.

That is true concerning BYU--a private school who subsidizes tuition for church members and does not charge increased tuition for out of state students (church member tuition vs non-church-member tuition) drawing only 32% of its students from Utah, with all 50 states and 105 countries represented in its student population of 33.5k.

As a state, Utah is interesting in that it has a statewide population of 3.2 mill and three FBS football teams--Utah (PAC12), BYU (FBS Independent), and Utah State (MWC). At the FCS level you have Weber State (Big Sky) and Dixie State (FCS Independent as of 2019), and there is one JC football program in Snow College.
The only "big" school without a football team is Utah Valley University (WAC). Their enrollment is approaching 40k with nearly 10k taking online courses. I've not heard any serious interest in starting up football--but that would be the only option I see.

(04-18-2020 03:21 PM)NoDak Wrote:  WSU used to be in the MVC with Cincinnati, Memphis, Tulane,and Tulsa so it would only be natural to want a full reunion with them.

Tulane wasn't in the MVC at any point, but Louisville, North Texas, and NMSU all were at some point.

(04-20-2020 11:38 AM)f1do Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 04:34 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-17-2020 02:03 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-17-2020 01:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 11:40 PM)NoDak Wrote:  WSU knows that AAC football .membership will not be easy. They will have to form a winning tradition and then maybe get in. There will be other FBS programs that will soon appear, like Mo St and. NDSU. NDSU's AD has said they will make a decision of FBS within a couple of years, so it is already planned.

WSU is in a lightly populated basketball state that already has 2 P5 schools. Football just doesn't make sense for them.

So the same could be said for Kentucky, Mississippi, Oklahoma,
Colorado, Utah, Louisiana, etc.

Yeah, the same could be said for Mississippi and Oklahoma ... it's not clear that this would be a good time for Southern Miss or Tulsa to start up a program if they were not already established.

Utah is not really comparable, since BYU draws support from Mormon populations across the West, so it's not really as constrained by its local population as many other Universities.

Louisiana has 50% more population, and is one of the top five or so recruiting grounds in the country, which indicates that football support will be larger for the same population, and has only one P5 program to support ... and the challenges of one of its programs to maintain FBS level athletic department budgets and facilities suggests that 1 P5 and 4 Go5 schools might indeed by one too many.

Kentucky: 50% more population, 2P5 and 1 Go5 school
Colorado: Twice the population, 1P5 and 2 Go5 schools, one a Military Academy
... either of those are evidence for the other side ... if that is what can be comfortably supported, a state with Kansas's population and 2 P5 schools could well be considered to be fully stocked with FBS football.

That is true concerning BYU--a private school who subsidizes tuition for church members and does not charge increased tuition for out of state students (church member tuition vs non-church-member tuition) drawing only 32% of its students from Utah, with all 50 states and 105 countries represented in its student population of 33.5k.

As a state, Utah is interesting in that it has a statewide population of 3.2 mill and three FBS football teams--Utah (PAC12), BYU (FBS Independent), and Utah State (MWC). At the FCS level you have Weber State (Big Sky) and Dixie State (FCS Independent as of 2019), and there is one JC football program in Snow College.
The only "big" school without a football team is Utah Valley University (WAC). Their enrollment is approaching 40k with nearly 10k taking online courses. I've not heard any serious interest in starting up football--but that would be the only option I see.

Southern Utah say enough for football?

What does this have to do with Wichita State?

(04-20-2020 01:15 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 03:21 PM)NoDak Wrote:  WSU used to be in the MVC with Cincinnati, Memphis, Tulane,and Tulsa so it would only be natural to want a full reunion with them.

Tulane wasn't in the MVC at any point, but Louisville, North Texas, and NMSU all were at some point.

Absolutely correct. The school I was thinking of was Houston, which left circa 1960.

Again Folks, with or without Football in our future this is a good thing. Wichita wants all of its athletics together in an athletic plaza and this ensures that. The way the University is situated, to get the main part of campus you have to drive by damn near every athletic facility. Cessna has long been an eyesore in that department and doesn't make a very good front porch. Parking wise, it is brutal as well around there (like most schools) and it just isn't conducive to creating a modern Football stadium atmosphere which requires plenty and easy VIP access along with massive tailgating space. Throw in practice fields, an IPF, Football complex, etc it was never going to work. When this gets completed a prospective student will have to drive by some of the best sports facilities not only in the conference but nation to get into the heart of campus. Currently Cessna and the crappy track facilities basically sit between Eck Stadium and Koch Arena. When this is done and if they are able to implement the planned vision of a first class T&F facility with 12,000-15,000 seats it will make a drastic improvement to the sight lines along 21st St.