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Men's Soccer is no more.
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 10:02 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Not sure how you justify a Fickell extension now

Because football makes money that supports the entire rest of the athletic department. Because having a winning coach that promotes enthusiasm with football brings in more money for those sports, not less.
Because any chance at getting into a P5 conference and really strengthening the other athletic programs comes from a successful football program.
 
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2020 10:03 AM by bearcatmark.)
04-15-2020 10:03 AM
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natibeast21 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 10:03 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-15-2020 10:02 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Not sure how you justify a Fickell extension now

Because football makes money that supports the entire rest of the athletic department. Because having a winning coach that promotes enthusiasm with football brings in more money for those sports, not less.
Because any chance at getting into a P5 conference and really strengthening the other athletic programs comes from a successful football program.

Yeah we have to keep Fickell for the sake of the entire Athletic Department. We are probably close to maximizing profits on the b-ball side already in the current conference we are in (schools producing their own sports content with our new media deal will be interesting though, but I haven't really looked into this). We still have tons of room to grow in Football even in the G5 landscape.

What might looks stupid in the short-term could payoff big time in the long term. Definitely a risk I'd be willing to take, but I'm heavily biased as football is my favorite sport.


An important thing I always remember that comes to my mind when it comes to decisions needing to be made with athletic departments across the country having budget issues:
1) Be First
2) Be Smarter
3) Or Cheat

And while everyone likes to think they are the smartest it is just a whole lot easier to be first. And we aren't Louisville so we don't cheat.
 
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2020 10:23 AM by natibeast21.)
04-15-2020 10:15 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 10:03 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-15-2020 10:02 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Not sure how you justify a Fickell extension now

Because football makes money that supports the entire rest of the athletic department. Because having a winning coach that promotes enthusiasm with football brings in more money for those sports, not less.
Because any chance at getting into a P5 conference and really strengthening the other athletic programs comes from a successful football program.

Correct.

I would add, we are year 4 into a 6 year contract. We have to extend so the contract does not run out. We have to be able to avoid the negative recruiting that comes with contract uncertainty. We need to increase the buyout to protect UC in the event he leaves for another job. It is going to be $1.5M this fall IIRC.
 
04-15-2020 10:16 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 10:16 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(04-15-2020 10:03 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-15-2020 10:02 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Not sure how you justify a Fickell extension now

Because football makes money that supports the entire rest of the athletic department. Because having a winning coach that promotes enthusiasm with football brings in more money for those sports, not less.
Because any chance at getting into a P5 conference and really strengthening the other athletic programs comes from a successful football program.

Correct.

I would add, we are year 4 into a 6 year contract. We have to extend so the contract does not run out. We have to be able to avoid the negative recruiting that comes with contract uncertainty. We need to increase the buyout to protect UC in the event he leaves for another job. It is going to be $1.5M this fall IIRC.

Yeah, Football is in the black...that's how you justify it. AD's are going to start looking at sports as independent "divisions" of the whole athletics departments now, they can't afford to do otherwise. If the NCAA stipulations are relaxed on 14 sports per department and number of guaranteed scholarships in each sport, you're going to see a whole lot of those "divisions" being downsized or eliminated. Just as a frame of reference, the President of the institution where I currently work just sent out an email stating that they are expecting an $18M shortfall in operating budget this year from all sources, and a $23M shortfall simply from the state funding reduction next year (not counting enrollment decline which will undoubtedly happen as well). You cannot have numbers that big and leave the largest deficit generator in your company alone anymore.
 
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04-15-2020 10:24 AM
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Cataclysmo Online
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Post: #65
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
I absolutely understand that. Do you guys think everyone else will, too? I'm not sure. I'm sure as soon as the Fick extension happens the enquirer will run an article about how we're shelling out money for football coaches while our academics and other atheltic programs cut their budgets.
 
04-15-2020 10:29 AM
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Cataclysmo Online
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Post: #66
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
For reference, most of the professors I know tend to lump football in with all the other sports. It infurirates them that Luke Fickell makes 2.1 million a year. If professors and staff start getting nixed, how do the optics look when the head ball coach gets an extension?

I understand why it has to happen. I want it to happen, desperately. But it'll be tougher to pull it off now.
 
04-15-2020 10:35 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 10:29 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  I absolutely understand that. Do you guys think everyone else will, too? I'm not sure. I'm sure as soon as the Fick extension happens the enquirer will run an article about how we're shelling out money for football coaches while our academics and other atheltic programs cut their budgets.

How is that any different than what they have been doing for the last 40 years?

The Enquirer will get over it.
 
04-15-2020 10:36 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 10:35 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  For reference, most of the professors I know tend to lump football in with all the other sports. It infurirates them that Luke Fickell makes 2.1 million a year. If professors and staff start getting nixed, how do the optics look when the head ball coach gets an extension?

I understand why it has to happen. I want it to happen, desperately. But it'll be tougher to pull it off now.

If they clearly articulate all +/- decisions to all involved, it will make sense. The Gender Equity Coordinator who got fired...well, that's because the office doesn't bring in ANYTHING other than good feelings. Hell, I've brought in $1.2M (a 14x return on investment) since taking my current position in October of last year and I'M worried about having to find a new job in the next few months, this is the point where everything that can't support itself is going to get hit hard. If you look at ALL of those people and say "we cut 20% from the AD the same as we cut 20% from the College of Liberal Arts, there's not really an argument that they can make in all honesty.

In my situation, I work at an institution where the AD brought in only $7,245,163 in non-gift revenue last year on a $33,187,500 budget. If our athletics department is not DRASTICALLY reorganized, then people will be pissed...UC is not anywhere NEAR that situation at the moment. The thing I'd be worried about is the outside public not understanding. Hell, they just made a 1.4% cut yesterday and you've seen how much uninformed people are up in arms.
 
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2020 10:49 AM by BearcatMan.)
04-15-2020 10:46 AM
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natibeast21 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 10:35 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  For reference, most of the professors I know tend to lump football in with all the other sports. It infurirates them that Luke Fickell makes 2.1 million a year. If professors and staff start getting nixed, how do the optics look when the head ball coach gets an extension?

I understand why it has to happen. I want it to happen, desperately. But it'll be tougher to pull it off now.

I know our football program doesn’t bring in what Ohio St, but somehow those professors are ok with paying Ryan Day 5.4 mil in 2020 and 7.6 mil by 2022. Along with that they have 4 f****** assistants making over 1 mil a pop. That blows my mind.

I also had numerous professors tell me and in some cases the whole class they only taught because they had to, but were more interested in research and were really only there because of the research funding that was provided. I understood that, but would throw it right back in their face if they came out pissy.
 
04-15-2020 10:50 AM
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Cataclysmo Online
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Post: #70
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 10:50 AM)natibeast21 Wrote:  
(04-15-2020 10:35 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  For reference, most of the professors I know tend to lump football in with all the other sports. It infurirates them that Luke Fickell makes 2.1 million a year. If professors and staff start getting nixed, how do the optics look when the head ball coach gets an extension?

I understand why it has to happen. I want it to happen, desperately. But it'll be tougher to pull it off now.

I know our football program doesn’t bring in what Ohio St, but somehow those professors are ok with paying Ryan Day 5.4 mil in 2020 and 7.6 mil by 2022. Along with that they have 4 f****** assistants making over 1 mil a pop. That blows my mind.

I also had numerous professors tell me and in some cases the whole class they only taught because they had to, but were more interested in research and were really only there because of the research funding that was provided. I understood that, but would throw it right back in their face if they came out pissy.

Again, we're on the same page. This entire board is on the same page. But up in columbus they have tens of thousands of fans who think and act like members of this board. UC atheltics has some fans in the academic ranks, sure. But it's already difficult to justify these things to professors in a normal world. I'm just saying, it's about to become a lot more challenging to do that when individual Colleges starting cutting the fat.
 
04-15-2020 10:57 AM
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Cataclysmo Online
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Post: #71
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 10:46 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  If they clearly articulate all +/- decisions to all involved, it will make sense. The Gender Equity Coordinator who got fired...well, that's because the office doesn't bring in ANYTHING other than good feelings. Hell, I've brought in $1.2M (a 14x return on investment) since taking my current position in October of last year and I'M worried about having to find a new job in the next few months, this is the point where everything that can't support itself is going to get hit hard. If you look at ALL of those people and say "we cut 20% from the AD the same as we cut 20% from the College of Liberal Arts, there's not really an argument that they can make in all honesty.

In my situation, I work at an institution where the AD brought in only $7,245,163 in non-gift revenue last year on a $33,187,500 budget. If our athletics department is not DRASTICALLY reorganized, then people will be pissed...UC is not anywhere NEAR that situation at the moment. The thing I'd be worried about is the outside public not understanding. Hell, they just made a 1.4% cut yesterday and you've seen how much uninformed people are up in arms.

I agree and I hope you're right. I just don't have much faith that the rest of the University will understand it in the same way...
 
04-15-2020 10:58 AM
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Post: #72
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 10:36 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(04-15-2020 10:29 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  I absolutely understand that. Do you guys think everyone else will, too? I'm not sure. I'm sure as soon as the Fick extension happens the enquirer will run an article about how we're shelling out money for football coaches while our academics and other atheltic programs cut their budgets.

How is that any different than what they have been doing for the last 40 years?

The Enquirer will get over it.

Screw The Enquirer, I cancelled 2016.
 
04-15-2020 11:19 AM
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JHG722 Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-14-2020 09:38 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(04-14-2020 09:10 PM)WalterSobchak Wrote:  Bush league.

I even gave extra this year to the "secret" 6 million football locker room renovation so stuff like this wouldn't happen. But it does. G5.

I give...up.

Well, first, we ARE "g5."
Second, Temple dropped BASEBALL a couple of years back. Would you rather UC cut baseball?

Baseball is pointless in the Northeast/Mid Atlantic.
 
04-15-2020 12:20 PM
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Post: #74
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 10:16 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(04-15-2020 10:03 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-15-2020 10:02 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Not sure how you justify a Fickell extension now

Because football makes money that supports the entire rest of the athletic department. Because having a winning coach that promotes enthusiasm with football brings in more money for those sports, not less.
Because any chance at getting into a P5 conference and really strengthening the other athletic programs comes from a successful football program.

Correct.

I would add, we are year 4 into a 6 year contract. We have to extend so the contract does not run out. We have to be able to avoid the negative recruiting that comes with contract uncertainty. We need to increase the buyout to protect UC in the event he leaves for another job. It is going to be $1.5M this fall IIRC.

I agree with the spirit of this. What may be unknown is how Fickell suddenly feels about the world in April 2020. He just turned down millions more at MSU and did so with no UC extension in place. He's honoring his commitment to be here.

Maybe he would take an extension with zero immediate increase in pay that rachets up more steeply after 2021? Essentially, one that defers any increase until a return to normalcy in college football, meaning the expected revenue stream from a full regular schedule, fans in the stands, bowl game and all? I have to think that's at least a "possibility" since he's been steadfast in keeping his promise to UC and truly seems committed to raising his kids in one of the most family friendly cities in the country; close to his extended family in Ohio.
 
04-15-2020 12:25 PM
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Post: #75
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 12:25 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(04-15-2020 10:16 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(04-15-2020 10:03 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-15-2020 10:02 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Not sure how you justify a Fickell extension now

Because football makes money that supports the entire rest of the athletic department. Because having a winning coach that promotes enthusiasm with football brings in more money for those sports, not less.
Because any chance at getting into a P5 conference and really strengthening the other athletic programs comes from a successful football program.

Correct.

I would add, we are year 4 into a 6 year contract. We have to extend so the contract does not run out. We have to be able to avoid the negative recruiting that comes with contract uncertainty. We need to increase the buyout to protect UC in the event he leaves for another job. It is going to be $1.5M this fall IIRC.

I agree with the spirit of this. What may be unknown is how Fickell suddenly feels about the world in April 2020. He just turned down millions more at MSU and did so with no UC extension in place. He's honoring his commitment to be here.

Maybe he would take an extension with zero immediate increase in pay that rachets up more steeply after 2021? Essentially, one that defers any increase until a return to normalcy in college football, meaning the expected revenue stream from a full regular schedule, fans in the stands, bowl game and all? I have to think that's at least a "possibility" since he's been steadfast in keeping his promise to UC and truly seems committed to raising his kids in one of the most family friendly cities in the country; close to his extended family in Ohio.

I've argued before that we need to consider a "lifetime" sort of thing with him. 10 year contract, fully guaranteed with significant (~$500,000) escalators after every two years. If he want's a commitment, there it is.
 
04-15-2020 12:52 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
It would seem there is a middle ground for both sides. I think the optics would be bad for Fick to "demand" top shelf money RIGHT NOW with all the cutbacks and financial difficulties facing not only Cincinnati but other instiutions of higher learning across the nation. UC brass may have some upset profs but if they cut other athletic programs to glean the fat and invest in what can actually still MAKE revenues for the university then the justification would seem to work from that side as well. I agree with BearcatMan, there are some creative ways to capture a "long term" commitment on both sides of a contract extension to make it a win-win. Fick knocked over the first domino in rejecting MSU. I will be extremely disappointed if UC does not knock the next one over to offer a contract extension. It may take some time to formally execute a contract as the COVID economic impacts are still being realized but damn I hope UC is communicating intentions right now [or have already] to CLF to keep him here long term.
 
04-15-2020 02:14 PM
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Post: #77
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 02:14 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  It would seem there is a middle ground for both sides. I think the optics would be bad for Fick to "demand" top shelf money RIGHT NOW with all the cutbacks and financial difficulties facing not only Cincinnati but other instiutions of higher learning across the nation. UC brass may have some upset profs but if they cut other athletic programs to glean the fat and invest in what can actually still MAKE revenues for the university then the justification would seem to work from that side as well. I agree with BearcatMan, there are some creative ways to capture a "long term" commitment on both sides of a contract extension to make it a win-win. Fick knocked over the first domino in rejecting MSU. I will be extremely disappointed if UC does not knock the next one over to offer a contract extension. It may take some time to formally execute a contract as the COVID economic impacts are still being realized but damn I hope UC is communicating intentions right now [or have already] to CLF to keep him here long term.

Well said. While I'm sure no one wants the appearance of men's soccer being cut to beef up the football coach's contract, that budgeting may have played into the decision. Our men's soccer team wasn't going to get UC into the Big 12. A football program: ranked, winning on a big stage, out-recruiting neighboring P5 schools and filling Nippert, may be the golden ticket. Could UC football become just too good for the B12 or ACC to ignore? We hope so.
 
04-15-2020 03:20 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
Next on the chopping block...all the Olympic sports. Once you boil this down, you'll be left with:

MBB
WBB
FB
Baseball (maybe)

Everything else becomes an intramural or a club sport. No schollies.
 
04-15-2020 04:19 PM
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JHG722 Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 04:19 PM)converrl Wrote:  Next on the chopping block...all the Olympic sports. Once you boil this down, you'll be left with:

MBB
WBB
FB
Baseball (maybe)

Everything else becomes an intramural or a club sport. No schollies.

They're going to have to figure out some way to relax Title IX, which shouldn't include football.
 
04-15-2020 05:09 PM
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Post: #80
RE: Men's Soccer is no more.
(04-15-2020 05:09 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  
(04-15-2020 04:19 PM)converrl Wrote:  Next on the chopping block...all the Olympic sports. Once you boil this down, you'll be left with:

MBB
WBB
FB
Baseball (maybe)

Everything else becomes an intramural or a club sport. No schollies.

They're going to have to figure out some way to relax Title IX, which shouldn't include football.

Good luck with that...Title IX hasn't been touched in 5 decades and is a Federal Law, not an NCAA Regulation. While I agree, having football be a part of the count causes athletics departments to be behind the 8-ball, having to balance out 85 scholarships essentially means you need 5 women's sports right off the bat
 
04-15-2020 05:30 PM
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