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(04-09-2020 02:30 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  I am not a fan of Liberty's social agenda. Not at all!
However, it makes sense logistically and financially for ODU and any conference that Liberty is in.

JMU is not going FBS anytime soon. The hurdles of the Cox Bill and the associated Legislature requirements make that so problematic that it is almost completely a non starter.

Conferences have academic missions as well as athletic ones. When you have an institution as politically tainted as Liberty is, that'll endanger student lives and sue reporters for reporting, that makes real academic institutions wary of creating a link between them.

For $hits and Giggles....what is the process for the creation of a new conference? Could one of us go incorporate a conference and ten try to convince schools to join or does it have to be a process driven by a group of schools?

(04-10-2020 10:05 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  For $hits and Giggles....what is the process for the creation of a new conference? Could one of us go incorporate a conference and ten try to convince schools to join or does it have to be a process driven by a group of schools?

In effect conference creation will be driven by who can get a waiver from the NCAA to immediately gain an AQ in the March Madness tournament. If we've gotten to the point that the CFP has expanded to 8 with a G5 autobid, then it'll be predicated on who can get a waiver to compete for that autobid AND a March Madness AQ immediately.

Typically that means a group of at least 8(?, possibly slightly less?) schools that have been together for a while and held AQ status.

(04-10-2020 10:14 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:05 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  For $hits and Giggles....what is the process for the creation of a new conference? Could one of us go incorporate a conference and ten try to convince schools to join or does it have to be a process driven by a group of schools?

In effect conference creation will be driven by who can get a waiver from the NCAA to immediately gain an AQ in the March Madness tournament. If we've gotten to the point that the CFP has expanded to 8 with a G5 autobid, then it'll be predicated on who can get a waiver to compete for that autobid AND a March Madness AQ immediately.

Typically that means a group of at least 8(?, possibly slightly less?) schools that have been together for a while and held AQ status.

so 8 or more schools who have been part of a conference with a AQ previously, could apply to the NCAA to create a new conference. who approves the conference? Just NCAA leadership or does it have to be voted on by the larger membership?

(04-10-2020 12:04 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  so 8 or more schools who have been part of a conference with a AQ previously, could apply to the NCAA to create a new conference. who approves the conference? Just NCAA leadership or does it have to be voted on by the larger membership?

NCAA.

It's one of those things where there's a specific process and specific requirements and other conferences that have used that to form in the past. I think there was some discussion about the A-Sun using this loophole to reorganize into a "new" conference while maintaining their AQ? Not certain. I do recall the A-Sun either used or seriously discussed using this system with the NCAA a few months back.

Found it!

Quote:As recently reported by the release from the Atlantic Sun Conference the league will be merging with the Coastal Collegiate Sports Association. The CCSA is considered a Division 1 Conference by the NCAA and sponsor’s beach volleyball, swimming, and diving. The two conferences will merge with 7 Atlantic Sun schools including North Florida, Stetson, N.J.I.T., Florida Gulf Coast, Jacksonville, Lipscomb, and Kennesaw St. which would form one all sports conference and continue with the Atlantic Sun name, the remaining 3 schools Liberty, North Alabama, and future member Bellarmine would be joined by unmentioned expansion candidates, to form the tentative United Athletic Conference.

The steps of the plan include the Atlantic Sun expanding to 20 members by June, 2023.

http://collegesportsinfo.com/2020/02/11/...ivision-3/

Whats the deal with the United Athletics Conference Liberty will be in? Is that an all sports conference? Do they have autobids? Could that be the newly formed G5 conference?

(04-10-2020 12:13 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Found it!

Quote:As recently reported by the release from the Atlantic Sun Conference the league will be merging with the Coastal Collegiate Sports Association. The CCSA is considered a Division 1 Conference by the NCAA and sponsor’s beach volleyball, swimming, and diving. The two conferences will merge with 7 Atlantic Sun schools including North Florida, Stetson, N.J.I.T., Florida Gulf Coast, Jacksonville, Lipscomb, and Kennesaw St. which would form one all sports conference and continue with the Atlantic Sun name, the remaining 3 schools Liberty, North Alabama, and future member Bellarmine would be joined by unmentioned expansion candidates, to form the tentative United Athletic Conference.

The steps of the plan include the Atlantic Sun expanding to 20 members by June, 2023.

http://collegesportsinfo.com/2020/02/11/...ivision-3/

So the easiest way to form a new conference would be for a group of existing schools in two different conferences to agree to a merger and then stay under one banner or rename the conference?

(04-10-2020 12:57 PM)monarx Wrote:  Whats the deal with the United Athletics Conference Liberty will be in? Is that an all sports conference? Do they have autobids? Could that be the newly formed G5 conference?

Those are all non-FB sports. You'd be surprised who is in that merged A-Sun for some sports (LSU, South Carolina...).

UAC is still "on paper" right now. It would not get an auto-bid I believe. That would be a non-FB conference.

(04-10-2020 01:00 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 12:13 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Found it!

Quote:As recently reported by the release from the Atlantic Sun Conference the league will be merging with the Coastal Collegiate Sports Association. The CCSA is considered a Division 1 Conference by the NCAA and sponsor’s beach volleyball, swimming, and diving. The two conferences will merge with 7 Atlantic Sun schools including North Florida, Stetson, N.J.I.T., Florida Gulf Coast, Jacksonville, Lipscomb, and Kennesaw St. which would form one all sports conference and continue with the Atlantic Sun name, the remaining 3 schools Liberty, North Alabama, and future member Bellarmine would be joined by unmentioned expansion candidates, to form the tentative United Athletic Conference.

The steps of the plan include the Atlantic Sun expanding to 20 members by June, 2023.

http://collegesportsinfo.com/2020/02/11/...ivision-3/

So the easiest way to form a new conference would be for a group of existing schools in two different conferences to agree to a merger and then stay under one banner or rename the conference?

It's not that it's the easiest necessarily, it's just that the "new" A-Sun will maintain AQ status because it had 7 teams sticking together that had AQ status already. IIRC that guarantees you keep your AQ moving forward.

I wonder if CAA Football could do a similar dance with the CAA, with the FCS schools taking the CAA name to the CAAF, and the CAA reorganizing as an FBS league under another name?

(04-10-2020 01:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder if CAA Football could do a similar dance with the CAA, with the FCS schools taking the CAA name to the CAAF, and the CAA reorganizing as an FBS league under another name?

That is an interesting idea...then everyone gets their cake. But how do you decide who goes FBS verses FCS? Or are you assuming the FCS football would stay under the CAA banner and ODU and some other schools would fill in the FBS side of the CAA under a new banner?

(04-10-2020 01:41 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder if CAA Football could do a similar dance with the CAA, with the FCS schools taking the CAA name to the CAAF, and the CAA reorganizing as an FBS league under another name?

That is an interesting idea...then everyone gets their cake. But how do you decide who goes FBS verses FCS? Or are you assuming the FCS football would stay under the CAA banner and ODU and some other schools would fill in the FBS side of the CAA under a new banner?

I *think* this would work, or at least be theoretically permissible:

CAA (formerly d/b/a/ CAA Football):
William & Mary
Towson
Elon
Delaware
Drexel (non-FB)
Hofstra (non-FB)
Northeastern (non-FB)
UNC Wilmington (non-FB)
Albany (FB only)
Stony Brook (FB only)
New Hampshire (FB only)
Maine (FB only)
Rhode Island (FB only)
*Teams that qualify to give this group the continuity to continue as a conference are in italics.

EASTERN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION (former CAA)
ODU
JMU
Liberty
Marshall
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Middle Tennessee
WKU
Charleston (non-FB)
Belmont (non-FB)

If Delaware wanted to stay in the old CAA and move up to FBS, there would be room and the 10 football teams would form divisions IF the Atlantic Sun's interpretation of seven schools forming continuity is correct, which it may not be. I believe both Elon and Charleston would be in the CAA long enough to qualify as part of the continuity block, at least per the ASUN's reckoning; I moved Charleston to the new conference on the premise that it would be a better basketball conference.

That's probably an entirely too simplistic breakdown and would require a lot of dominoes to fall just so, and it could just be flat out wrong. So keep that in mind.

(04-10-2020 01:59 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:41 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder if CAA Football could do a similar dance with the CAA, with the FCS schools taking the CAA name to the CAAF, and the CAA reorganizing as an FBS league under another name?

That is an interesting idea...then everyone gets their cake. But how do you decide who goes FBS verses FCS? Or are you assuming the FCS football would stay under the CAA banner and ODU and some other schools would fill in the FBS side of the CAA under a new banner?

I *think* this would work, or at least be theoretically permissible:

CAA (formerly d/b/a/ CAA Football):
William & Mary
Towson
Elon
Delaware
Drexel (non-FB)
Hofstra (non-FB)
Northeastern (non-FB)
UNC Wilmington (non-FB)
Albany (FB only)
Stony Brook (FB only)
New Hampshire (FB only)
Maine (FB only)
Rhode Island (FB only)
*Teams that qualify to give this group the continuity to continue as a conference are in italics.

EASTERN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION (former CAA)
ODU
JMU
Liberty
Marshall
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Middle Tennessee
WKU
Charleston (non-FB)
Belmont (non-FB)

If Delaware wanted to stay in the old CAA and move up to FBS, there would be room and the 10 football teams would form divisions IF the Atlantic Sun's interpretation of seven schools forming continuity is correct, which it may not be. I believe both Elon and Charleston would be in the CAA long enough to qualify as part of the continuity block, at least per the ASUN's reckoning; I moved Charleston to the new conference on the premise that it would be a better basketball conference.

That's probably an entirely too simplistic breakdown and would require a lot of dominoes to fall just so, and it could just be flat out wrong. So keep that in mind.

So you are assuming that JMU would move up to FBS? Or would they play FCS football in the other side?

(04-10-2020 02:26 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:59 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:41 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder if CAA Football could do a similar dance with the CAA, with the FCS schools taking the CAA name to the CAAF, and the CAA reorganizing as an FBS league under another name?

That is an interesting idea...then everyone gets their cake. But how do you decide who goes FBS verses FCS? Or are you assuming the FCS football would stay under the CAA banner and ODU and some other schools would fill in the FBS side of the CAA under a new banner?

I *think* this would work, or at least be theoretically permissible:

CAA (formerly d/b/a/ CAA Football):
William & Mary
Towson
Elon
Delaware
Drexel (non-FB)
Hofstra (non-FB)
Northeastern (non-FB)
UNC Wilmington (non-FB)
Albany (FB only)
Stony Brook (FB only)
New Hampshire (FB only)
Maine (FB only)
Rhode Island (FB only)
*Teams that qualify to give this group the continuity to continue as a conference are in italics.

EASTERN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION (former CAA)
ODU
JMU
Liberty
Marshall
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Middle Tennessee
WKU
Charleston (non-FB)
Belmont (non-FB)

If Delaware wanted to stay in the old CAA and move up to FBS, there would be room and the 10 football teams would form divisions IF the Atlantic Sun's interpretation of seven schools forming continuity is correct, which it may not be. I believe both Elon and Charleston would be in the CAA long enough to qualify as part of the continuity block, at least per the ASUN's reckoning; I moved Charleston to the new conference on the premise that it would be a better basketball conference.

That's probably an entirely too simplistic breakdown and would require a lot of dominoes to fall just so, and it could just be flat out wrong. So keep that in mind.

So you are assuming that JMU would move up to FBS? Or would they play FCS football in the other side?

I presume JMU (and possibly Delaware) would be in the FBS league; otherwise, I'm not sure there's much reason for the CAA to split into FBS and FCS leagues if none of their members are playing FBS.

(04-10-2020 02:43 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 02:26 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:59 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:41 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder if CAA Football could do a similar dance with the CAA, with the FCS schools taking the CAA name to the CAAF, and the CAA reorganizing as an FBS league under another name?

That is an interesting idea...then everyone gets their cake. But how do you decide who goes FBS verses FCS? Or are you assuming the FCS football would stay under the CAA banner and ODU and some other schools would fill in the FBS side of the CAA under a new banner?

I *think* this would work, or at least be theoretically permissible:

CAA (formerly d/b/a/ CAA Football):
William & Mary
Towson
Elon
Delaware
Drexel (non-FB)
Hofstra (non-FB)
Northeastern (non-FB)
UNC Wilmington (non-FB)
Albany (FB only)
Stony Brook (FB only)
New Hampshire (FB only)
Maine (FB only)
Rhode Island (FB only)
*Teams that qualify to give this group the continuity to continue as a conference are in italics.

EASTERN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION (former CAA)
ODU
JMU
Liberty
Marshall
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Middle Tennessee
WKU
Charleston (non-FB)
Belmont (non-FB)

If Delaware wanted to stay in the old CAA and move up to FBS, there would be room and the 10 football teams would form divisions IF the Atlantic Sun's interpretation of seven schools forming continuity is correct, which it may not be. I believe both Elon and Charleston would be in the CAA long enough to qualify as part of the continuity block, at least per the ASUN's reckoning; I moved Charleston to the new conference on the premise that it would be a better basketball conference.

That's probably an entirely too simplistic breakdown and would require a lot of dominoes to fall just so, and it could just be flat out wrong. So keep that in mind.

So you are assuming that JMU would move up to FBS? Or would they play FCS football in the other side?

I presume JMU (and possibly Delaware) would be in the FBS league; otherwise, I'm not sure there's much reason for the CAA to split into FBS and FCS leagues if none of their members are playing FBS.

I like Delaware in a new regional league. Along with Ohio (not likely) and UConn and UMass as football only. I like the idea of being affiliated with non-directonal state named schools. I think they offer some legitimacy in the eyes of the average Joe and TV networks. (That's purely my gut opinion)

If we could get an NCAA waiver to start a new league I looked at a few criteria to come up with my league.


- Schools whose fans have decent to good attendance in football, basketball, or both.
- G5 "brands".
- State Flagship Universities. They bring the potential of a whole state following. I think they offer some legitimacy in the eyes of the average Joe and TV networks.
- Military schools. National brand and following.

Ignoring MAC schools who likely aren't budging I came up with this list using the criteria above-

Marshall
ODU
WKU
Middle Tennessee
UAB
Charlotte
Appalachian State
James Madison
Delaware
Army (football only)
UConn (football only)
UMass (football only)

Murray State (olympic sports only)

That's a 12 team football conference with two 6 team divisions. And a 10 team basketball conference that allows for a double round-robin conference schedule.

(04-12-2020 05:13 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 02:43 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 02:26 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:59 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:41 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  That is an interesting idea...then everyone gets their cake. But how do you decide who goes FBS verses FCS? Or are you assuming the FCS football would stay under the CAA banner and ODU and some other schools would fill in the FBS side of the CAA under a new banner?

I *think* this would work, or at least be theoretically permissible:

CAA (formerly d/b/a/ CAA Football):
William & Mary
Towson
Elon
Delaware
Drexel (non-FB)
Hofstra (non-FB)
Northeastern (non-FB)
UNC Wilmington (non-FB)
Albany (FB only)
Stony Brook (FB only)
New Hampshire (FB only)
Maine (FB only)
Rhode Island (FB only)
*Teams that qualify to give this group the continuity to continue as a conference are in italics.

EASTERN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION (former CAA)
ODU
JMU
Liberty
Marshall
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Middle Tennessee
WKU
Charleston (non-FB)
Belmont (non-FB)

If Delaware wanted to stay in the old CAA and move up to FBS, there would be room and the 10 football teams would form divisions IF the Atlantic Sun's interpretation of seven schools forming continuity is correct, which it may not be. I believe both Elon and Charleston would be in the CAA long enough to qualify as part of the continuity block, at least per the ASUN's reckoning; I moved Charleston to the new conference on the premise that it would be a better basketball conference.

That's probably an entirely too simplistic breakdown and would require a lot of dominoes to fall just so, and it could just be flat out wrong. So keep that in mind.

So you are assuming that JMU would move up to FBS? Or would they play FCS football in the other side?

I presume JMU (and possibly Delaware) would be in the FBS league; otherwise, I'm not sure there's much reason for the CAA to split into FBS and FCS leagues if none of their members are playing FBS.

I like Delaware in a new regional league. Along with Ohio (not likely) and UConn and UMass as football only. I like the idea of being affiliated with non-directonal state named schools. I think they offer some legitimacy in the eyes of the average Joe and TV networks. (That's purely my gut opinion)

I wouldn't say no to Delaware but I don't think their presence has elevated the CAA. It was an ODU/VCU/George Mason league until they left; now there's no real identity. Flagships are great but that status seems to have minimal impact as the state gets smaller.

That said, it is a good school, it's got a football history and basketball can occasionally be good (they produced Elena Della Donne). I'd take them if they were interested.

The perception, at least from a few years ago, was that they wouldn't move to FBS unless it was ACC-level. Who knows how true that is, but they've never shown any inclination to even kick the tires on a moveup. JMU may be monitoring the situation but Delaware doesn't even plug in their monitors.

(04-13-2020 12:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-12-2020 05:13 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 02:43 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 02:26 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:59 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I *think* this would work, or at least be theoretically permissible:

CAA (formerly d/b/a/ CAA Football):
William & Mary
Towson
Elon
Delaware
Drexel (non-FB)
Hofstra (non-FB)
Northeastern (non-FB)
UNC Wilmington (non-FB)
Albany (FB only)
Stony Brook (FB only)
New Hampshire (FB only)
Maine (FB only)
Rhode Island (FB only)
*Teams that qualify to give this group the continuity to continue as a conference are in italics.

EASTERN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION (former CAA)
ODU
JMU
Liberty
Marshall
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Middle Tennessee
WKU
Charleston (non-FB)
Belmont (non-FB)

If Delaware wanted to stay in the old CAA and move up to FBS, there would be room and the 10 football teams would form divisions IF the Atlantic Sun's interpretation of seven schools forming continuity is correct, which it may not be. I believe both Elon and Charleston would be in the CAA long enough to qualify as part of the continuity block, at least per the ASUN's reckoning; I moved Charleston to the new conference on the premise that it would be a better basketball conference.

That's probably an entirely too simplistic breakdown and would require a lot of dominoes to fall just so, and it could just be flat out wrong. So keep that in mind.

So you are assuming that JMU would move up to FBS? Or would they play FCS football in the other side?

I presume JMU (and possibly Delaware) would be in the FBS league; otherwise, I'm not sure there's much reason for the CAA to split into FBS and FCS leagues if none of their members are playing FBS.

I like Delaware in a new regional league. Along with Ohio (not likely) and UConn and UMass as football only. I like the idea of being affiliated with non-directonal state named schools. I think they offer some legitimacy in the eyes of the average Joe and TV networks. (That's purely my gut opinion)

I wouldn't say no to Delaware but I don't think their presence has elevated the CAA. It was an ODU/VCU/George Mason league until they left; now there's no real identity. Flagships are great but that status seems to have minimal impact as the state gets smaller.

That said, it is a good school, it's got a football history and basketball can occasionally be good (they produced Elena Della Donne). I'd take them if they were interested.

The perception, at least from a few years ago, was that they wouldn't move to FBS unless it was ACC-level. Who knows how true that is, but they've never shown any inclination to even kick the tires on a moveup. JMU may be monitoring the situation but Delaware doesn't even plug in their monitors.

Gotcha. You know more about that group of schools than me.

(04-10-2020 02:26 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:59 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:41 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 01:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder if CAA Football could do a similar dance with the CAA, with the FCS schools taking the CAA name to the CAAF, and the CAA reorganizing as an FBS league under another name?

That is an interesting idea...then everyone gets their cake. But how do you decide who goes FBS verses FCS? Or are you assuming the FCS football would stay under the CAA banner and ODU and some other schools would fill in the FBS side of the CAA under a new banner?

I *think* this would work, or at least be theoretically permissible:

CAA (formerly d/b/a/ CAA Football):
William & Mary
Towson
Elon
Delaware
Drexel (non-FB)
Hofstra (non-FB)
Northeastern (non-FB)
UNC Wilmington (non-FB)
Albany (FB only)
Stony Brook (FB only)
New Hampshire (FB only)
Maine (FB only)
Rhode Island (FB only)
*Teams that qualify to give this group the continuity to continue as a conference are in italics.

EASTERN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION (former CAA)
ODU
JMU
Liberty
Marshall
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Middle Tennessee
WKU
Charleston (non-FB)
Belmont (non-FB)

If Delaware wanted to stay in the old CAA and move up to FBS, there would be room and the 10 football teams would form divisions IF the Atlantic Sun's interpretation of seven schools forming continuity is correct, which it may not be. I believe both Elon and Charleston would be in the CAA long enough to qualify as part of the continuity block, at least per the ASUN's reckoning; I moved Charleston to the new conference on the premise that it would be a better basketball conference.

That's probably an entirely too simplistic breakdown and would require a lot of dominoes to fall just so, and it could just be flat out wrong. So keep that in mind.

So you are assuming that JMU would move up to FBS? Or would they play FCS football in the other side?

If a regional conference option becomes a reality jmu will move for fear of an alum riot.