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Conference Descrambler
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-18-2020 08:41 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Originally I thought Southern Miss May be a rival for UAB and Southern Miss has some cache and fan support but this conference would get far flung geographically in a hurry and then with talk of Florida schools etc it defeats the purpose of an all sports league that is tight knit geographically. Probably better off keeping it at 10 to start with a smaller footprint.

Exactly
04-19-2020 06:21 AM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Conference Descrambler
Also to add to that the thought around non football schools like Mason and Vcu as well or schools who may view this as a step back like Ecu and Navy or football only schools probably should be shelved as well. Start with a tight group of 10 all sports regional schools and the league can entertain other options down the road as it grows but a mix of football and non football schools is how a lot of this conference movement started in the first place. All goals need to be aligned.
04-19-2020 06:58 AM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Conference Descrambler
I borrowed these numbers from the @DukesTailgate twitter handle with respect to a potential Eastern Athletic Conference and researched some of
my own.

Their proposal

North
JMU 21,808 students $51.7M budget
ODU 24,176 students $44.2M budget
Marshall 9,593 students $30.6M budget
App State 19,280 students $36.9M budget
Charlotte 29,615 students $37.9M budget
Western Kentucky 24,492 students $30.5M budget
Middle Tennessee State 21.913 students, $35.3M budget

South
UAB students 22,080 $34.7M budget
Southern Miss 14,509 students $24.2M budget
Georgia Southern 20.418 students $31.6M budget
Coastal Carolina 10,479 students $36.4M budget
Troy 29,689 students $30.3M budget
Florida Atlantic 29.772 students $35.1M budget
Florida International 58,064 students, $36.1M budget

Others:
Georgia State 52,814 students $32M Budget
Ohio University 18,938 students $35.8M Budget
Delaware 24,120 students $44M budget

Another way to look at it

Average Distance Between Other Potential Members
Charlotte 385.1
Georgia State 406.9
App State 408.1
Georgia Southern 437.1
Coastal Carolina 468.7
UAB 473.0
Middle Tennessee 475.3
Marshall 493.9
Troy 508.2
WKU 509.0
JMU 520.5
Ohio 548.5
ODU 570.5
Southern Miss 650.8
Delaware 679.3
FAU 761.0
FIU 807.2

Number of Potential Conference Members within 300 miles (bus feasible)
Charlotte 6
JMU 6
Georgia State 5
App State 5
UAB 4
Marshall 4
Troy 4
Georgia Southern 3
Coastal Carolina 3
Middle Tennessee 3
ODU 3
WKU 2
Ohio 2
Delaware 2
Southern Miss 1
FAU 1
FIU 1
04-19-2020 11:34 AM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Conference Descrambler
With this in mind I think this would work:

North
JMU
ODU
Charlotte
App State
Marshall

The only over 300 milers are App State to ODU (350), ODU to App State (350) and Marshall (412) and Marshall to ODU (412)

South
Georgia State
UAB
Middle Tennessee
Western Kentucky
Georgia Southern

the only 300+ milers in division are Ga State to WKU (312), UAB to GA Southern (355), Middle Tennessee to Ga Southern (424), and Western Kentucky to Georgia Southern (520) and Ga State (312). GA Southern is a bit of an outlier with longer trips of 355 to UAB, 425 Middle Tenn and 520 to Western Kentucky.

Coastal Carolina could fit in the South but they are a little too far East. Ohio U could fit in the North (better than Delaware in terms of relative travel).
04-19-2020 11:58 AM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Conference Descrambler
This may be optimal if it can be pulled off. Coastal is a bit of an outlier geographically and still emerging in terms of size and athletics. I know some folks wouldn't mind the trip to Myrtle Beach and they have a great baseball program but Troy may bring more (despite being a little far/remote) assuming UAB is in the conference as a Southern Travel partner/rival. Ohio U is western in the MAC and within 100 miles of Marshall. They are ex rivals who could be reunited in the North.

North
JMU
ODU
Charlotte
App State
Marshall
Ohio University

South
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Western Kentucky
Middle Tennessee
UAB
Troy
04-19-2020 12:23 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Conference Descrambler
UAB won’t go for that. They just won’t unless they’re sweating finances to an extreme.
04-19-2020 12:49 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-19-2020 12:49 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  UAB won’t go for that. They just won’t unless they’re sweating finances to an extreme.

Assuming you’re right and they are holding out for an AAC spot You could eliminate UAB and Troy and just go with 10. If Ohio U doesn’t bite I would add Coastal as the 10th. This assumes Liberty is off the table for non athletics reasons. With 10 members I would not have division- Just go with 10 all sports and travel partners.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2020 01:42 PM by NJDuke97.)
04-19-2020 01:36 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Conference Descrambler
I’m down.
04-19-2020 01:38 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-19-2020 01:36 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(04-19-2020 12:49 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  UAB won’t go for that. They just won’t unless they’re sweating finances to an extreme.

Assuming you’re right and they are holding out for an AAC spot You could eliminate UAB and Troy and just go with 10. If Ohio U doesn’t bite I would add Coastal as the 10th. This assumes Liberty is off the table for non athletics reasons. With 10 members I would not have division- Just go with 10 all sports and travel partners.

Liberty now has a lot of contracts and it would cost them a small fortune to get out. They seem to be happy, let's let them be who they are. Nothing says we can't still go up against them in non-confidence play. I enjoy playing them, but let it be as it's always been.
04-19-2020 01:49 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-19-2020 01:38 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I’m down.

Curious to hear from Marshall fans to see if my take on Ohio U being a rival/travel partner is intriguing or meaningful to them and if (knowing Ohio U and the Mac) they think Ohio U would prefer a conference like this or if they would rather continue to play schools in the rust belt. If no Ohio U I think Coastal would do it and they aren’t that much of an outlier geographically just don’t have a natural travel partner/rival IMO.
04-19-2020 01:51 PM
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MUsince96 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-19-2020 01:51 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(04-19-2020 01:38 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I’m down.

Curious to hear from Marshall fans to see if my take on Ohio U being a rival/travel partner is intriguing or meaningful to them and if (knowing Ohio U and the Mac) they think Ohio U would prefer a conference like this or if they would rather continue to play schools in the rust belt. If no Ohio U I think Coastal would do it and they aren’t that much of an outlier geographically just don’t have a natural travel partner/rival IMO.

I'd love having Ohio in the league but I can't see them ever leaving the MAC.
04-19-2020 02:01 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-19-2020 01:51 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(04-19-2020 01:38 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I’m down.

Curious to hear from Marshall fans to see if my take on Ohio U being a rival/travel partner is intriguing or meaningful to them and if (knowing Ohio U and the Mac) they think Ohio U would prefer a conference like this or if they would rather continue to play schools in the rust belt. If no Ohio U I think Coastal would do it and they aren’t that much of an outlier geographically just don’t have a natural travel partner/rival IMO.

Simply asking the question: Why would Ohio have an interest? Their travel would significantly increase when they have to travel to GA Southern. Only the schools with pain that this shakeup will help alleviate will show interest.
04-19-2020 02:02 PM
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DukeThaDawg Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-19-2020 12:23 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  This may be optimal if it can be pulled off. Coastal is a bit of an outlier geographically and still emerging in terms of size and athletics. I know some folks wouldn't mind the trip to Myrtle Beach and they have a great baseball program but Troy may bring more (despite being a little far/remote) assuming UAB is in the conference as a Southern Travel partner/rival. Ohio U is western in the MAC and within 100 miles of Marshall. They are ex rivals who could be reunited in the North.

North
JMU
ODU
Charlotte
App State
Marshall
Ohio University

South
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Western Kentucky
Middle Tennessee
UAB
Troy
This would be a very good conference
But I think Ohio University is not gonna leave the MAC, although it would be perfect if they could be convinced to join.

A North division would be easy to construct around the VA or NC teams. A south division is a little more tricky. Keeping it eastern based and not so far flung southwest is essential, because then it would be defeating the purpose of a regional conference. Including the FLA teams or S Miss might defeat that regional purpose. (Although a concession could be made for
S Miss to make the conference stronger)

UAB and Georgia Southern are in close proximity, throw Troy in there, and it would make for a good southern division with some regional southeast rivalries.

Since CUSA and the Sunbelt are the two weakest conferences, that are a clutter of teams with little regional connections, the new regional conference should be built around picking teams out of these 2 leagues.

I think this would be a good 10 team conference, with some possibilities to add on a for a 12 team conference.

North
JMU
ODU
Marshall
App State
Charlotte

Possible Additions
(Delaware or Army or Liberty)


South
MTSU
WKU
Georgia Southern
UAB
Troy

Possible Additions
(Coastal or Georgia State or S Miss)
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2020 02:12 PM by DukeThaDawg.)
04-19-2020 02:10 PM
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olddawg Online
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Post: #74
RE: Conference Descrambler
I like a lot of what is being bounced around. My only concern w/ a 10 team conference, is that it will only allow for 3 OOC games. Every other season we’ll only have 4 home conference games. That’ll mean some seasons, we may only have 5 home games. It’ll depend on how it shakes out w/ the payday P5 game, G5 home & home and the FCS game.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2020 02:33 PM by olddawg.)
04-19-2020 02:29 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-19-2020 01:36 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(04-19-2020 12:49 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  UAB won’t go for that. They just won’t unless they’re sweating finances to an extreme.

Assuming you’re right and they are holding out for an AAC spot You could eliminate UAB and Troy and just go with 10. If Ohio U doesn’t bite I would add Coastal as the 10th. This assumes Liberty is off the table for non athletics reasons. With 10 members I would not have division- Just go with 10 all sports and travel partners.

Coastal instead of Delaware? Sorry, I don’t see Coastal over UD.
04-19-2020 02:33 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-19-2020 02:01 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  
(04-19-2020 01:51 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(04-19-2020 01:38 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I’m down.

Curious to hear from Marshall fans to see if my take on Ohio U being a rival/travel partner is intriguing or meaningful to them and if (knowing Ohio U and the Mac) they think Ohio U would prefer a conference like this or if they would rather continue to play schools in the rust belt. If no Ohio U I think Coastal would do it and they aren’t that much of an outlier geographically just don’t have a natural travel partner/rival IMO.

I'd love having Ohio in the league but I can't see them ever leaving the MAC.

Agreed. No school is leaving the MAC.
04-19-2020 02:34 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-19-2020 02:02 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(04-19-2020 01:51 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(04-19-2020 01:38 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I’m down.

Curious to hear from Marshall fans to see if my take on Ohio U being a rival/travel partner is intriguing or meaningful to them and if (knowing Ohio U and the Mac) they think Ohio U would prefer a conference like this or if they would rather continue to play schools in the rust belt. If no Ohio U I think Coastal would do it and they aren’t that much of an outlier geographically just don’t have a natural travel partner/rival IMO.

Simply asking the question: Why would Ohio have an interest? Their travel would significantly increase when they have to travel to GA Southern. Only the schools with pain that this shakeup will help alleviate will show interest.

Yep I agree and trust the Marshall fan's opinion. I like Ohio U from a JMU perspective but the new league would be lateral for them and they are a charter member of the MAC. I personally think this new conference would be more successful than the MAC on and off the field due to the relative fan interest and area of the country though.

I kind of like the 10 of JMU, ODU, Charlotte, App, Marshall, Coastal, Ga State, Georgia Southern, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee

The footprint north to south east to west is no greater than 700 miles- MAC's claim to fame is 600 miles.

I also like the balance in terms of school locations

-Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, and Kentucky

-2 metropolitan areas (Charlotte and Atlanta)

- 2 coastal cities (Myrtle Beach and Norfolk)

-6 rural areas with proximity to markets like Nashville, Richmond and Washington DC.

-5 former CUSA schools, 4 Former Sun Belt schools and 1 FCS move up with the largest budget of them all.

From a JMU perspective just in terms of travel/cost

longest road trips in the CAA today (Olympic sports) 501 miles Charleston, 571 miles Boston

longest road trips in the CAA today (Football) 700+ Maine

longest road trips in the proposed conference all sports 537 Middle Tenn, 573 WKU, 538 Ga Southern, 531 Ga State
04-19-2020 02:38 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Conference Descrambler
This thing w Liberty...it does provide an opportunity too - inclusion in any new league could be made contingent on them coming more into th modern times...dropping crazy stuff like conversion therapy...there is religious, and then there is openly biased - its a chance (maybe) to make impact with sports as the cudgel
04-19-2020 03:36 PM
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hburg Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Conference Descrambler
I like Liberty as they are and they should not be asked to change for a conference spot. Liberty should be supported because they are close and have fan support. To ask them to change views because some schools in a conference don't like who they are is crazy. Liberty would never to my knowledge ask JMU, W&M,ODU, etc to change who they their views, etc..
04-19-2020 04:05 PM
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JMU08 Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-19-2020 04:05 PM)hburg Wrote:  I like Liberty as they are and they should not be asked to change for a conference spot. Liberty should be supported because they are close and have fan support. To ask them to change views because some schools in a conference don't like who they are is crazy. Liberty would never to my knowledge ask JMU, W&M,ODU, etc to change who they their views, etc..

Agree to disagree, if Liberty was in control for whatever reason, I could see them say that JMU has to change their views for a seat.
04-19-2020 04:16 PM
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