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Conference Descrambler
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DooX Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Conference Descrambler
For me it more or less broke into three tiers. JMU plus Marshall, App St, and ODU makes for a nice nucleus. Geography then defines the other schools and I didn't really have a strong opinion of who should be in or out. This included Georgia Southern, MTSU, WKU, the other NC schools, etc. Anybody outside of that footprint just doesn't make any sense to me.
04-10-2020 01:59 PM
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bcp_jmu Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-09-2020 08:44 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Imo you can go one of two ways with this- one where JMU is part of a southern division and one where JMU is part of a northern division. I went with a footprint that has JMU in the south. I think the norther man division with Buffalo and Army probably gives the league some more football creditability and makes it easier for Marshall to sell despite the 3 Fcs move ups (JMU Delaware and Stonybrook). A conference where Umass can play UConn in football has some appeal for them so they are willing to make the all sports move. Marshall being in the conference with JMU is enough for App state to sell to their fan base. 10
Team conference in all sports and for Football you have the conference championship in DC.


North
Umass
UConn (Football only)
Buffalo
Army (Football only)
Stony Brook
Delaware



South
JMU
ODU
App State
Marshall
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina


Would love to be in a conference with Army...UMass / Uconn pairing could be good for both schools' football woes.

Stony Brook? Pass...Two FCS callups is enough.

Seems like the consensus is that MAC won't break up - so is Buffalo realistic?

I think Coastal Carolina is kinda garbage..and still cannot believe they are FBS before JMU.

If those three are out...who could join?
- Liberty? (I know...but $$$ and a TV network)
- Wake Forest? (Crazy I know..but they really don't fit anymore in ACC)
- Navy? (again, do they really fit the AAC? Might want to be paired with Army)
- MTSU (Great stadium, 22k students)

Fun to kick around ideas - and awesome to see the "Conference Rumor" thread reborn!!
04-10-2020 02:25 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-10-2020 02:25 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  
(04-09-2020 08:44 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Imo you can go one of two ways with this- one where JMU is part of a southern division and one where JMU is part of a northern division. I went with a footprint that has JMU in the south. I think the norther man division with Buffalo and Army probably gives the league some more football creditability and makes it easier for Marshall to sell despite the 3 Fcs move ups (JMU Delaware and Stonybrook). A conference where Umass can play UConn in football has some appeal for them so they are willing to make the all sports move. Marshall being in the conference with JMU is enough for App state to sell to their fan base. 10
Team conference in all sports and for Football you have the conference championship in DC.




Would love to be in a conference with Army...UMass / Uconn pairing could be good for both schools' football woes.

Stony Brook? Pass...Two FCS callups is enough.

Seems like the consensus is that MAC won't break up - so is Buffalo realistic?North
Umass
UConn (Football only)
Buffalo
Army (Football only)
Stony Brook
Delaware



South
JMU
ODU
App State
Marshall
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina


I think Coastal Carolina is kinda garbage..and still cannot believe they are FBS before JMU.

If those three are out...who could join?
- Liberty? (I know...but $$$ and a TV network)
- Wake Forest? (Crazy I know..but they really don't fit anymore in ACC)
- Navy? (again, do they really fit the AAC? Might want to be paired with Army)
- MTSU (Great stadium, 22k students)

Fun to kick around ideas - and awesome to see the "Conference Rumor" thread reborn!!

I put Stony Brook because they are growing in terms of University and Athletics and they fit geographically in the North and deliver some exposure to a major media market (I know often exaggerated with schools like Rutgers, Fordham etc. in other conferences). I just feel like there may be more motivation for the Northern outliers (Independent Football schools, and a geographic outlier (they will be no matter what conference) like Buffalo) to join a conference like this than a Southern division where I believe it gets a lot more crowded with Sun Belt and CUSA schools.

This conference would deliver flagship State Universities and several schools with strong academic classifications and reputations (examples: Buffalo, Stony Brook, JMU). UConn and Army add some cache for Football and provide balance up North.

IMO App State and Marshall would be the biggest gets in this type of conference from a JMU perspective. Would love the potential rivalries there. The only downside in my opinion is that the South is stronger from a football perspective. I think it would be a battle to play Buffalo or Army for JMU, App State, and Marshall in the Conference Football Championship each year.

I selected Coastal because it fit geographically- Mass to SC would be the footprint but maybe Marshall (former rival) and Buffalo (current conference mate) could convince Ohio U to join and then the conference could look like this:

North
Umass
UConn (Football only)
Buffalo
Army (Football only)
Ohio
Marshall

South
Stony Brook
Delaware
JMU
ODU
App State
Charlotte
[/quote]

That would IMO make the North and South more even in terms of football strength (Assuming ODU gets better, Charlotte continues to build and Delaware and Stony Brook step their games up) and provide more of an incentive for Marshall to join.

For the 10 schools who are all sports you would have the following travel partners:

Umass/Buffalo
Ohio/Marshall
Stony Brook/Delaware
JMU/ODU
App State/Charlotte
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2020 03:39 PM by NJDuke97.)
04-10-2020 03:35 PM
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JMUNation Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Conference Descrambler
Honestly, JMU needs to look South for conference partners. The NFL rules the north and always will. The schools with growth potential are south of the Mason Dixon line.

UD is as far north as I would go for a conference partner. UConn and UMASS will eventually kill football and focus their money on basketball. Heck, this virus may be the death knoll to football at UMASS and maybe even UConn too ahead of schedule.
04-10-2020 07:18 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-10-2020 07:18 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Honestly, JMU needs to look South for conference partners. The NFL rules the north and always will. The schools with growth potential are south of the Mason Dixon line.

UD is as far north as I would go for a conference partner. UConn and UMASS will eventually kill football and focus their money on basketball. Heck, this virus may be the death knoll to football at UMASS and maybe even UConn too ahead of schedule.

They would be looking south- ODU, App State, Charlotte - you could go down to Georgia and Tennessee and Alabama etc and Florida - I just think it’s gets crowded in terms of schools and far flung in a hurry- next thing you know where does JMU fit. The idea is to be relatively efficient with travel, while partnering with schools that are similar- JMUs student and alumni footprint I believe to be largely Virginia and North anyway. For Olympic sports this could be mostly a bus league as well. You start traveling to places like Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky and UAB or Troy or Florida Atlantic- not so much.
04-10-2020 07:58 PM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Conference Descrambler
Liberty fan here enjoying your discussion. I think some of you folks are overstating the interest in football independents hooking up with regional league. Once upon a time scheduling was a challenge after conference play began. But with so many new indies there is no trouble filling dates. With the exception of outlier NMSU who may be significantly impacted by the oil & gas crisis that has been spurred by not only COVID-19 but also the Saudi-Russian production boosts there really is a nice coalition built between the indies. All have built their schedules nicely to manage the next few years until realignment inevitably returns due to revenue disparity. From Liberty's perspective, the only football league that offers any interest is the AAC. And based on current events who knows whether that league will still be operating in just a few years. But I am old school and love the idea of playing the Dukes as much as possible regardless of your league. I agree with the poster earlier who mentioned the hate from Harrisonburg toward Lynchburg would make a great rivalry. We are certainly enjoying our new indy buddies in Provo, West Point & Amherst immensely. I suspect UConn wll be fun as well.
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2020 09:24 AM by SlyFox.)
04-15-2020 09:16 AM
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AssyrianDuke Online
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Post: #47
RE: Conference Descrambler
I would hope that Liberty lumps in BB games with UConn in addition to the presumptive FB scheduling. Otherwise you won't enjoy UConn as much as you hope to.
04-15-2020 10:37 AM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Conference Descrambler
Sadly that is not the initial deal but it is part of the discussion. The only significant upside to a road game in East Hartford is easy access for our NYC & Boston alumni. But Southwest flights to Hartford are generally cheapas well.
04-15-2020 10:48 AM
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Post: #49
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-15-2020 10:48 AM)SlyFox Wrote:  Sadly that is not the initial deal but it is part of the discussion. The only significant upside to a road game in East Hartford is easy access for our NYC & Boston alumni. But Southwest flights to Hartford are generally cheapas well.

JetBlue also sometimes has real cheap flights to BDL, but not sure where they fly to in Texas.
04-15-2020 01:00 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-10-2020 03:35 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(04-10-2020 02:25 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  
(04-09-2020 08:44 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Imo you can go one of two ways with this- one where JMU is part of a southern division and one where JMU is part of a northern division. I went with a footprint that has JMU in the south. I think the norther man division with Buffalo and Army probably gives the league some more football creditability and makes it easier for Marshall to sell despite the 3 Fcs move ups (JMU Delaware and Stonybrook). A conference where Umass can play UConn in football has some appeal for them so they are willing to make the all sports move. Marshall being in the conference with JMU is enough for App state to sell to their fan base. 10
Team conference in all sports and for Football you have the conference championship in DC.




Would love to be in a conference with Army...UMass / Uconn pairing could be good for both schools' football woes.

Stony Brook? Pass...Two FCS callups is enough.

Seems like the consensus is that MAC won't break up - so is Buffalo realistic?North
Umass
UConn (Football only)
Buffalo
Army (Football only)
Stony Brook
Delaware



South
JMU
ODU
App State
Marshall
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina


I think Coastal Carolina is kinda garbage..and still cannot believe they are FBS before JMU.

If those three are out...who could join?
- Liberty? (I know...but $$$ and a TV network)
- Wake Forest? (Crazy I know..but they really don't fit anymore in ACC)
- Navy? (again, do they really fit the AAC? Might want to be paired with Army)
- MTSU (Great stadium, 22k students)

Fun to kick around ideas - and awesome to see the "Conference Rumor" thread reborn!!

I put Stony Brook because they are growing in terms of University and Athletics and they fit geographically in the North and deliver some exposure to a major media market (I know often exaggerated with schools like Rutgers, Fordham etc. in other conferences). I just feel like there may be more motivation for the Northern outliers (Independent Football schools, and a geographic outlier (they will be no matter what conference) like Buffalo) to join a conference like this than a Southern division where I believe it gets a lot more crowded with Sun Belt and CUSA schools.

This conference would deliver flagship State Universities and several schools with strong academic classifications and reputations (examples: Buffalo, Stony Brook, JMU). UConn and Army add some cache for Football and provide balance up North.

IMO App State and Marshall would be the biggest gets in this type of conference from a JMU perspective. Would love the potential rivalries there. The only downside in my opinion is that the South is stronger from a football perspective. I think it would be a battle to play Buffalo or Army for JMU, App State, and Marshall in the Conference Football Championship each year.

I selected Coastal because it fit geographically- Mass to SC would be the footprint but maybe Marshall (former rival) and Buffalo (current conference mate) could convince Ohio U to join and then the conference could look like this:

North
Umass
UConn (Football only)
Buffalo
Army (Football only)
Ohio
Marshall

South
Stony Brook
Delaware
JMU
ODU
App State
Charlotte

That would IMO make the North and South more even in terms of football strength (Assuming ODU gets better, Charlotte continues to build and Delaware and Stony Brook step their games up) and provide more of an incentive for Marshall to join.

For the 10 schools who are all sports you would have the following travel partners:

Umass/Buffalo
Ohio/Marshall
Stony Brook/Delaware
JMU/ODU
App State/Charlotte
[/quote]

Some discussion on the other thread around schedules for JMU football. Here is one that fits this conference (don’t mind that I didn’t account for bye weeks).

Week 1 home vs FCS
Week 2 road @ P5
Week 3 home vs G5
Week 4 road @ P5
Week 5 @ Delaware
Week 6 vs ODU
Week 7 @ Army
Week 8 vs Charlotte
Week 9@ Stony Brook
Week 10 vs Marshall
Week 11@ App State
Week 12 vs Ohio
Week 13 Conference Championship
In Washington DC
04-15-2020 02:27 PM
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Purplehazed Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-15-2020 10:48 AM)SlyFox Wrote:  Sadly that is not the initial deal but it is part of the discussion. The only significant upside to a road game in East Hartford is easy access for our NYC & Boston alumni. But Southwest flights to Hartford are generally cheapas well.

LU has discussions with other universities to try to get what LU wants and needs? Do you mean another university called LU and LU was willing to pick up the phone?
04-15-2020 04:02 PM
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bcp_jmu Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Conference Descrambler
check the Newest Conference Rumor thread for a rundown of available FBS schools over the next 3 years...lots of open dates.

And get this - upon closer look....we can't even get a date with LU or App until 2024 at the earliest.

But independent is impossible, eh? :)
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2020 04:18 PM by bcp_jmu.)
04-15-2020 04:18 PM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Conference Descrambler
If you guys were transitioning up to FBS there would be dates coming available at both Liberty & App State. At LU we have moved dates all over the place the last year or so to make things work. Keep in mind the first year or so will be painful during the transition but once you are up ...
04-15-2020 06:42 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Conference Descrambler
I couldn't even complete this because there's only 5 or 6 teams on this that even remotely justify a response. I don't have 10 teams among this list that I care about to even bother being in a conference with.

I'd rather keep some CAA teams before taking some of these CUSA and SBC non-regional programs. Even some regional programs fail to move the needle at all.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2020 09:47 AM by Potomac.)
04-16-2020 09:46 AM
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JMUrcc06 Online
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Post: #55
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-16-2020 09:46 AM)Potomac Wrote:  I couldn't even complete this because there's only 5 or 6 teams on this that even remotely justify a response. I don't have 10 teams among this list that I care about to even bother being in a conference with.

I'd rather keep some CAA teams before taking some of these CUSA and SBC non-regional programs. Even some regional programs fail to move the needle at all.

As I've gotten older, I tend to agree. I once was FBS at all costs - but the more I see the football peer OPTIONS, the more I'd prefer to leave Football in the CAA-Football league - I like UDel, RU, W&M, Villanova, and UNH games way more than I would any directional louisanna, alabama, tennessee. and shift our focus to become a basketball school.

Subsequently, this means staying in CAA for oly sports too - since the CAA is so weak, we have a much better shot at making Sweet 16 via a decent MBB than anywhere else and you can't argue we have a sweet geo footprint that any SBC and CUSA school would kill for.

I don't even recognize myself anymore!
04-16-2020 10:24 AM
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94computerguy Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-16-2020 10:24 AM)JMUrcc06 Wrote:  
(04-16-2020 09:46 AM)Potomac Wrote:  I couldn't even complete this because there's only 5 or 6 teams on this that even remotely justify a response. I don't have 10 teams among this list that I care about to even bother being in a conference with.

I'd rather keep some CAA teams before taking some of these CUSA and SBC non-regional programs. Even some regional programs fail to move the needle at all.

As I've gotten older, I tend to agree. I once was FBS at all costs - but the more I see the football peer OPTIONS, the more I'd prefer to leave Football in the CAA-Football league - I like UDel, RU, W&M, Villanova, and UNH games way more than I would any directional louisanna, alabama, tennessee. and shift our focus to become a basketball school.

Subsequently, this means staying in CAA for oly sports too - since the CAA is so weak, we have a much better shot at making Sweet 16 via a decent MBB than anywhere else and you can't argue we have a sweet geo footprint that any SBC and CUSA school would kill for.

I don't even recognize myself anymore!

I agree in some ways. I don't care about playing, say, ULL or UAB or whoever. BUT I care a lot more about NDSU than I did 5 years ago -- so that can change. I don't think I'd miss UDel, UNH, or Villanova, and W&M is really just not interested in being a peer anymore. (If they were, I'd love to have them as regular rivals, just like UR.)

So, my point is that an annual game against a G5 that's not too far away and who gives us a good game would eventually become a more welcome rival than those games where "if it's close we've really screwed something up" against teams we've been playing for decades. IMO.
04-16-2020 02:22 PM
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KickItToScotty Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Conference Descrambler
Yeah I could definitely get on board with a focus more on basketball but I think it's kinda past that point. Would've made a lot of sense something like 10-15 years ago to decide to heavily emphasize basketball over football, but now that'd be taking the sport where we're already very strong and somewhat throwing that away to put all our eggs in the basket of a sport that has been extremely unsuccessful both in W/L and in fan interest.

I also feel very differently from you rcc about the teams we're playing. Villanova, UNH, Stony Brook games can be fun just because they can be pretty good, but the fact that it's Villanova doesn't really feel any more meaningful than it would to play a good game against a directional Louisiana. The chickens, ticks, and nerds were fun rivalries when they were good games but we're currently on another level from those teams and a conference move could let us continue to pull away and hopefully have those great games/rivalries with schools like ODU, App State, Marshall, GSU... If we managed to get to the AAC then ECU, Temple, etc.

Right now, going undefeated in conference is definitely the expectation and anything less is a bit of a disappointment. The only FCS game we'll feel is somewhat acceptable to lose is to NDSU, any other FCS team it wouldn't be surprising to see them storm the field if they beat us. If you're that good and not already at the highest level, you need to try and move up.
04-16-2020 03:40 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-09-2020 06:17 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Not sure I get the Marshall love for FAU and indifference for FIU. To me, they're both the same. ESPN has historically lumped them together when publishing their bottom 10 (and still makes fun of their initials and interchangeability).

They are 60 miles apart (and 1000 miles from Huntington). Their rolling 5 year average attendance from 2014-2018 had them at 116 & 119th out of 130 schools. No one there cares. Sure, Lane Kiffin had some success 2 of the last 3 seasons. But the only AAC or higher team FAU has defeated from 2017-2019 was SMU last year.

Facilities and commitment to football. Most of us don't want both of the F_U twins, but we would like to keep one of them to keep a presence in Florida. Choosing between the two is kind of a no brainer if you visit both stadiums and go by recent success.
04-18-2020 07:47 PM
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herdfan129 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Conference Descrambler
(04-08-2020 03:18 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  JMU
ODU
APP
MARSHALL
WKY
MTENN
GA SOUTH
UAB
TROY
UNCC

Now that is a conference with regional interests and very good rivalries for all.

Screw the Florida schools. They have no fan interest. Coastal is small time. They don’t belong in FBS and last I looked, a tiny basketball arena. Liberty has too much money and Farewell does whatever he wants. Not a good conference partner. The rest are too far away to care about. Like S. Miss. but would have to drop an Alabama school to grab them. Geographically they fit better with La. and Texas schools than VA and NC anyway.

(04-09-2020 06:17 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Not sure I get the Marshall love for FAU and indifference for FIU. To me, they're both the same. ESPN has historically lumped them together when publishing their bottom 10 (and still makes fun of their initials and interchangeability).

They are 60 miles apart (and 1000 miles from Huntington). Their rolling 5 year average attendance from 2014-2018 had them at 116 & 119th out of 130 schools. No one there cares. Sure, Lane Kiffin had some success 2 of the last 3 seasons. But the only AAC or higher team FAU has defeated from 2017-2019 was SMU last year.

So Miss is geographically closer to the Texas teams but they view themselves more as an Eastern based team imo. They played in CUSA East for YEARS. It wasn't until the most recent realignment that they moved to the West.
04-18-2020 07:49 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Conference Descrambler
Originally I thought Southern Miss May be a rival for UAB and Southern Miss has some cache and fan support but this conference would get far flung geographically in a hurry and then with talk of Florida schools etc it defeats the purpose of an all sports league that is tight knit geographically. Probably better off keeping it at 10 to start with a smaller footprint.
04-18-2020 08:41 PM
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