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What if Wingfield stayed and played with Danny Fortson for two seasons? 1996 team would be 2000 level.

What if Jacob Evans stayed and played with Jarron Cumberland last year?

What if Sandy Pomeranz had become the next Oscar as everyone expected?

What if Nippert Stadium had been expanded when the Lindner Center was built - by incorporating a rebuild/new press box/suites on the Reed Shank pavilion side and making the new press box part of the Lindner Center?

What if Mike Thomas and the BOT weren't so wimpy and were more forward thinking and struck while the iron was hot (for a Nippert expansion) during the BK years?

Would both of those things have helped to get UC into the ACC or Big 12?

Shortly after the FB victory over Wisconsin, we played Oklahoma State. It was a close game that we could have won.

Our entire FB program might have pushed forward at that point, as the Wisconsin game would not have been seen as a fluke.

(04-10-2020 08:33 AM)ucbandguy Wrote:  Shortly after the FB victory over Wisconsin, we played Oklahoma State. It was a close game that we could have won.

Our entire FB program might have pushed forward at that point, as the Wisconsin game would not have been seen as a fluke.

Despite beating Wisconsin, the team went 3-8 that year. They did not play Okie State, it was Ohio State. UC was up 17-3 late into the second quarter. OSU scores right before the half to make it 17-10. In the second half UC went conservative and tried to protect the lead by running the football and eating up clock, which was a big mistake against the much more physical Buckeyes.

(04-10-2020 09:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 08:33 AM)ucbandguy Wrote:  Shortly after the FB victory over Wisconsin, we played Oklahoma State. It was a close game that we could have won.

Our entire FB program might have pushed forward at that point, as the Wisconsin game would not have been seen as a fluke.

Despite beating Wisconsin, the team went 3-8 that year. They did not play Okie State, it was Ohio State. UC was up 17-3 late into the second quarter. OSU scores right before the half to make it 17-10. In the second half UC went conservative and tried to protect the lead by running the football and eating up clock, which was a big mistake against the much more physical Buckeyes.

I was at that game in the old temporary bleachers. UC went up 17-3 on a Deonte Kenner TD run. UC was 5 wide and I looked and saw the entire middle of the field was open and predicted a QB draw. They ran it and he housed it. The bleachers were shaking. UC fans were going nuts. UC got another stop and had the ball late in the half. We missed a FG that would have made it 20-3 and it gave OSU could field position. They took advantage and marched down for a TD. I keep thinking what might have been if they made the field goal and took that 20-3 lead into the half.

BTW they lost to 1AA at the time Troy State the week before the Wisconsin game. It was probably the all time weirdest UC season.

(04-10-2020 09:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 08:33 AM)ucbandguy Wrote:  Shortly after the FB victory over Wisconsin, we played Oklahoma State. It was a close game that we could have won.

Our entire FB program might have pushed forward at that point, as the Wisconsin game would not have been seen as a fluke.

Despite beating Wisconsin, the team went 3-8 that year. They did not play Okie State, it was Ohio State. UC was up 17-3 late into the second quarter. OSU scores right before the half to make it 17-10. In the second half UC went conservative and tried to protect the lead by running the football and eating up clock, which was a big mistake against the much more physical Buckeyes.

Great win over Wisconsin; we were part of a relatively small crowd of enthusiastic supporters that day who were well rewarded for attending.

To me, that season is emblematic of the Minter era. Amazing signature wins, head scratching defeats and losing season records. I do give him credit for what remains one of our biggest program wins and some woulda/coulda/shoulda losses. The good news is, we now have a "football program" and all that entails. We've come a long way. Minter helped that process along the way but the change was timely when UC entered the Big East and really stepped it up.

I think Minter's biggest strength was an eye for assistants. A lot of them weren't here long though. I think that had a lot to do with the up and down nature of his time here.

(04-10-2020 09:34 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 09:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 08:33 AM)ucbandguy Wrote:  Shortly after the FB victory over Wisconsin, we played Oklahoma State. It was a close game that we could have won.

Our entire FB program might have pushed forward at that point, as the Wisconsin game would not have been seen as a fluke.

Despite beating Wisconsin, the team went 3-8 that year. They did not play Okie State, it was Ohio State. UC was up 17-3 late into the second quarter. OSU scores right before the half to make it 17-10. In the second half UC went conservative and tried to protect the lead by running the football and eating up clock, which was a big mistake against the much more physical Buckeyes.

Great win over Wisconsin; we were part of a relatively small crowd of enthusiastic supporters that day who were well rewarded for attending.

To me, that season is emblematic of the Minter era. Amazing signature wins, head scratching defeats and losing season records. I do give him credit for what remains one of our biggest program wins and some woulda/coulda/shoulda losses. The good news is, we now have a "football program" and all that entails. We've come a long way. Minter helped that process along the way but the change was timely when UC entered the Big East and really stepped it up.

The next year we had Wiskey down late at Camp Randall and Minter took a stupid safety which led to a defeat. Final 28-25

(04-07-2020 02:46 PM)cincybb51 Wrote:  

(04-06-2020 06:32 PM)ZCat Wrote:  

(04-06-2020 02:19 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  There's a lot of what-if players we were thisclose to getting but just missed out for one reason or another. To wit:
- not as sure about this one, but weren't we supposedly leading for Lew Alcindor until UCLA brought out the big bucks?
- NCAA decides to penalize LaSalle Thompson with a tourney ban or something if he went to UC because a family friend bought him a suit for a funeral and happened to be a casual UC fan/booster as I recall. So he goes to Texas.
- Danny Manning was ready to come to UC if we would have kept Ed Badger although maybe Kansas would have gotten him anyway since they hired his dad as a coach. Or perhaps Badger would have beat them to the punch and hired his dad instead especially since they were apparently very close.
- Mateen Cleaves went with MSU by a hair over UC.
- Kemba Woods similarly to UConn over UC in his final 2.
- I'm not sure how big of a difference maker he was for UK but we went all out for Dickie Beal and had a real shot at him iirc.
- Yates was in the conversation for getting the top player in the country in Marcus Liberty. He didn't fully live up to the billing but he might have opened the door for Yates to attract similar talents here.
- Huggins may or may not have held on to OJ Mayo and Bill Walker had he been brought back.
- I can't remember if we never offered Chris Lofton a scholly or if we waited too long to do it, but he was supposedly ours for the taking before he went to Tennessee and put together quite a career.
- We joke about how every new guy who sits out supposedly looks absolutely dominating in practice, but the all-timer may have been Vincent Banks and I don't think he ended up playing a minute of college ball anywhere.

On the coaching side, wasn't Rick Majerus runner-up to Huggins when we hired him. What if we would have went with him instead? What if John Loyer hadn't either screwed up or taken the fall as a UC assistant. Would he have been Mick Cronin before Mick Cronin became Mick Cronin? And of course what if we would have just given the job to Andy Kennedy rather than waiting for Cronin at the end of the season.

At least that's how I remember the above situations. Any additional insights/corrections? Who else did I miss?

Can any of the people that followed the team back then verify the Lew Alcindor info? I had never heard of that until just a few years ago. That is a big one, Obviously everyone knows number one and number two. The third title in a row and Kmart.

Lots of interesting ones on here though. I wish Huggins would’ve called a time out Against UNC Dean Smith earlier in the elite eight first half. He waited till they got all the way caught up. Then he called a timeout. And AD Jackson got hurt.

I was very young then and you got most of the recruiting rumors then from the Enquirer and Post but I remember that we were very much in the running for Alcindor. Very definitely we were very close to signing Cazzie Russell; Jucker and others many times said our loss to Loyola preventing our three-peat hurt us in his decision.

Thanks! Love to hear these stories From before my time. It is disappointing though.

What if Charles Williams was as good as he was hyped to be?

That 1997 team was loaded. Coming off an Elite 8. Preseason #1. Fortson on the SI cover for their NCAA basketball preview. He was a junior, Flint and Burton were seniors. Ruben Patterson was coming in as the #1 JUCO, when that was a big deal. The supporting cast included Rod Monroe, Jackson Julson, Terrence Davis, Bobby Brannen as a junior, a sophomore Mel Levett, JUCO transfer D'Juan Baker, and a freshman Kenyon Martin.

None of those guys were PGs, though. Charles Williams was a highly ranked California JUCO who was super athletic (fun fact: he is the half-brother of Venus and Serena). He was supposed to be the missing piece. In the Crosstown Shootout--the second game of the season!?--he dribbled the ball off his foot and out of bounds with under 10 seconds left and the game tied. He never recovered. He was a really bad shooter too, poor guy. Eventually he was declared ineligible and did not finish the year.

Damon Flint took over the PG duties and struggled. The team ran through the conference but kinda stumbled into the tournament. They lost to Iowa St. in the second round, with Flint missing a would-be winner in the lane. Brutal end. With a competent PG, things almost surely would have been different.

That team really missed Keith legree. Had everything else.

(04-10-2020 10:17 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  That team really missed Keith legree. Had everything else.

Legree was the best PG UC had after Van Exel until probably Steve Logan's freshman year. But Legree too was the weak link of those teams. He was not bad by any means; he a very good defender and a steady hand. But he also couldn't shoot or hit a FT and was just really limited offensively. Plus he was like 24 years old his senior year, it's not like he went pro at 19 and oh what could have been.

Pretty much every team from 1994 until 99 or 2000 was a PG away.

Legree's shooting was a big flaw but he's been underrated by a lot of UC fans who don't value everything else he did. He defended, handled the ball a ton (allowing other wings to play where they were most comfortable) and dished out 5.5 assists per game as a senior. The 1997 may have lived up to the hype if he was still around.

(04-09-2020 09:38 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  What if Wingfield stayed and played with Danny Fortson for two seasons? 1996 team would be 2000 level.

That is a big What if. Wingfield was incorrigible while he was here. Bob actually encouraged Wingfield to move on.

(04-11-2020 12:16 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:17 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  That team really missed Keith legree. Had everything else.

Legree was the best PG UC had after Van Exel until probably Steve Logan's freshman year. But Legree too was the weak link of those teams. He was not bad by any means; he a very good defender and a steady hand. But he also couldn't shoot or hit a FT and was just really limited offensively. Plus he was like 24 years old his senior year, it's not like he went pro at 19 and oh what could have been.

Pretty much every team from 1994 until 99 or 2000 was a PG away.

It was painful to watch the opposing defense sag due to lack of respect for his shot. Good thing that we had Art and Danny.