(04-06-2020 08:33 PM)JoeJag Wrote:  Here is a short list (not necessarily considered SBC worthy) of all the ones that I have in mind:
Youngstown State, Eastern Kentucky, Missouri State, Sam Houston State, Southeastern Louisiana, Stephen F. Austin, Weber State, Sacramento State.

Youngstown State- Broke. And they can't even get 10K in there 20,650 seat stadium on a regular basis anymore. The once top 5 IAA program in the nation, they aren't what they used to be. They have made the playoffs exactly twice since Tressel left in 2006 and 2016. Quit thinking this is the early to mid 90s.

EKU- They say the right thing but Richmond KY is only 27 miles away from Lexington KY and the Big Blue of UK. They are also broke and can't even really afford the OVC.

Missouri State/Sam Houston State- Although fans of other conferences rumble about them being a potential target. Neither school has ever said they want to be in a higher sub division.

Southeastern LA/Stephen F Austin/Weber State- These programs run hot and cold. Right now Weber is running real hot but just as soon as someone snaps their coach up they could be cold as ice again like from 2001-2014. Same with the other 2.

Sacramento State- This is a program that has had 6 winning seasons in the last 20 years, 9 in the last 30 and 14 in the last 50. They also have 1 count them 1 play off bid a 2019 game they lost to Austin Peay 42-28.

There might be 2 programs ahead of Jackson State more ready in NDSU and James Madison. But that is it.

(04-07-2020 02:08 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(04-06-2020 08:33 PM)JoeJag Wrote:  Here is a short list (not necessarily considered SBC worthy) of all the ones that I have in mind:
Youngstown State, Eastern Kentucky, Missouri State, Sam Houston State, Southeastern Louisiana, Stephen F. Austin, Weber State, Sacramento State.

Youngstown State- Broke. And they can't even get 10K in there 20,650 seat stadium on a regular basis anymore. The once top 5 IAA program in the nation, they aren't what they used to be. They have made the playoffs exactly twice since Tressel left in 2006 and 2016. Quit thinking this is the early to mid 90s.

EKU- They say the right thing but Richmond KY is only 27 miles away from Lexington KY and the Big Blue of UK. They are also broke and can't even really afford the OVC.

Missouri State/Sam Houston State- Although fans of other conferences rumble about them being a potential target. Neither school has ever said they want to be in a higher sub division.

Southeastern LA/Stephen F Austin/Weber State- These programs run hot and cold. Right now Weber is running real hot but just as soon as someone snaps their coach up they could be cold as ice again like from 2001-2014. Same with the other 2.

Sacramento State- This is a program that has had 6 winning seasons in the last 20 years, 9 in the last 30 and 14 in the last 50. They also have 1 count them 1 play off bid a 2019 game they lost to Austin Peay 42-28.

There might be 2 programs ahead of Jackson State more ready in NDSU and James Madison. But that is it.

Great points all around, but I do think JoeJag made a solid point about Jacksonville State's small enrollment. I don't mean to be offensive, but I think with that small enrollment, a Jacksonville State jumping to FBS may wind up being the next Akron or Eastern Michigan or (sorry) ULM. Schools at the G5 level unfortunately are just very dependent on student fees. With only 8,500 students, the fees don't multiply up to nearly as much as they would for a school of App State's size (just under 20,000) or bigger. Financially the school would likely struggle. Getting and retaining good coaches would be troublesome. Now, maybe they could actually do it, but that enrollment hurts them.

Blows my mind anyone brings up SHSU or SFA. I can kind of understand SHSU being brought up due to their success this last decade but SFA has been bad for a while and both schools have terrible facilities and fanbases.

(04-07-2020 02:24 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Great points all around, but I do think JoeJag made a solid point about Jacksonville State's small enrollment. I don't mean to be offensive, but I think with that small enrollment, a Jacksonville State jumping to FBS may wind up being the next Akron or Eastern Michigan or (sorry) ULM. Schools at the G5 level unfortunately are just very dependent on student fees. With only 8,500 students, the fees don't multiply up to nearly as much as they would for a school of App State's size (just under 20,000) or bigger. Financially the school would likely struggle. Getting and retaining good coaches would be troublesome. Now, maybe they could actually do it, but that enrollment hurts them.

I'll point to TCU then. A G5 program up until 2013 had an enrollment of under 7200 at the time. Its now still only around 8800.

Troy has less than 10K on their main campus. If you want to count all of their campuses and online students then it goes up to 18.2K. ULM has somewhere around 7500 and 8800 if you count grad students.

(04-07-2020 03:07 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(04-07-2020 02:24 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Great points all around, but I do think JoeJag made a solid point about Jacksonville State's small enrollment. I don't mean to be offensive, but I think with that small enrollment, a Jacksonville State jumping to FBS may wind up being the next Akron or Eastern Michigan or (sorry) ULM. Schools at the G5 level unfortunately are just very dependent on student fees. With only 8,500 students, the fees don't multiply up to nearly as much as they would for a school of App State's size (just under 20,000) or bigger. Financially the school would likely struggle. Getting and retaining good coaches would be troublesome. Now, maybe they could actually do it, but that enrollment hurts them.

I'll point to TCU then. A G5 program up until 2013 had an enrollment of under 7200 at the time. Its now still only around 8800.

Troy has less than 10K on their main campus. If you want to count all of their campuses and online students then it goes up to 18.2K. ULM has somewhere around 7500 and 8800 if you count grad students.

Huge difference between TCU and Jacksonville State. TCU is a private school in the DFW Metroplex and was a "P5" equivalent for nearly a century before getting left behind in the break up of the SWC. JSU is a public school in a small town in a small state that already has five FBS schools including two enormous P5s.

(04-07-2020 04:02 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(04-07-2020 03:07 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(04-07-2020 02:24 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Great points all around, but I do think JoeJag made a solid point about Jacksonville State's small enrollment. I don't mean to be offensive, but I think with that small enrollment, a Jacksonville State jumping to FBS may wind up being the next Akron or Eastern Michigan or (sorry) ULM. Schools at the G5 level unfortunately are just very dependent on student fees. With only 8,500 students, the fees don't multiply up to nearly as much as they would for a school of App State's size (just under 20,000) or bigger. Financially the school would likely struggle. Getting and retaining good coaches would be troublesome. Now, maybe they could actually do it, but that enrollment hurts them.

I'll point to TCU then. A G5 program up until 2013 had an enrollment of under 7200 at the time. Its now still only around 8800.

Troy has less than 10K on their main campus. If you want to count all of their campuses and online students then it goes up to 18.2K. ULM has somewhere around 7500 and 8800 if you count grad students.

Huge difference between TCU and Jacksonville State. TCU is a private school in the DFW Metroplex and was a "P5" equivalent for nearly a century before getting left behind in the break up of the SWC. JSU is a public school in a small town in a small state that already has five FBS schools including two enormous P5s.

Bingo!

(04-07-2020 04:02 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Huge difference between TCU and Jacksonville State. TCU is a private school in the DFW Metroplex and was a "P5" equivalent for nearly a century before getting left behind in the break up of the SWC. JSU is a public school in a small town in a small state that already has five FBS schools including two enormous P5s.

TCU along with Houston, Rice, SMU and Baylor were all the whipping boys for Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma State and Texas AM. Until everyone but Rice decided to start to cheat the system.

TCU didn't start to turn the corner and put money in their programs as a whole until the middle to late WAC years. Also TCU didn't really start hitting their stride until 98-00 as a CUSA program. Most of their other sports especially the olympic sports are still mediocre.

Also before the early to mid 90s there were no power dynamics in college athletics. That started when ESPN finally sunk their teeth in. There were smaller and bigger programs but TCU was not very well funded then. Their funding and budget in the SWC was near the bottom.

(04-07-2020 11:12 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(04-07-2020 04:02 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Huge difference between TCU and Jacksonville State. TCU is a private school in the DFW Metroplex and was a "P5" equivalent for nearly a century before getting left behind in the break up of the SWC. JSU is a public school in a small town in a small state that already has five FBS schools including two enormous P5s.

TCU along with Houston, Rice, SMU and Baylor were all the whipping boys for Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma State and Texas AM. Until everyone but Rice decided to start to cheat the system.

TCU didn't start to turn the corner and put money in their programs as a whole until the middle to late WAC years. Also TCU didn't really start hitting their stride until 98-00 as a CUSA program. Most of their other sports especially the olympic sports are still mediocre.

Also before the early to mid 90s there were no power dynamics in college athletics. That started when ESPN finally sunk their teeth in. There were smaller and bigger programs but TCU was not very well funded then. Their funding and budget in the SWC was near the bottom.

I'm sorry, wasn't the discussion about enrollment numbers and town size?

I am a little familiar with TCU's history since I was a pig fan in the 70s (cured of that affliction in the mid-80s). I've seen the Horned Frogs a couple times in Little Rock against Arkansas while in the SWC and at USAFA against Air Force while in the MW. I also have a high school teammate who played basketball for TCU in the early 80s; maybe you've heard of him, Dennis Nutt. I know all about the time when SWC meant "So We Cheat". And, Houston might've taken their hits at that time but they were hardly a whipping boy going 2-1 in the Cotton Bowl as SWC champs from 1977-1980.

Anyway; regardless of whether TCU was good or bad, small or big budget they have been highly relevant nation-wide (or "P5" equivalent) for about a century. Jacksonville State has been D1 for only 25 years and was hardly known outside of Alabama until five years ago when they nearly beat Auburn in football.

I would argue that there has been a power dynamics in college athletics since shortly after they began to televise college football. It just wasn't as in-your-face obvious then as it is now with espn. The CFA was one of the products of those power dynamics.

(04-04-2020 09:59 PM)RamblinRedWolf Wrote:  https://jsugamecocksports.com/news/2020/...eiled.aspx

Nothing special and its not FB exclusive

(04-08-2020 04:10 PM)AZcats Wrote:  I also have a high school teammate who played basketball for TCU in the early 80s; maybe you've heard of him, Dennis Nutt.

I know him. He was TXST's head coach my very first year at TXST. We went 3-24 and lost to 2 non-D1 teams. He was gone after that season.

(04-08-2020 06:40 PM)_x_ Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 04:10 PM)AZcats Wrote:  I also have a high school teammate who played basketball for TCU in the early 80s; maybe you've heard of him, Dennis Nutt.

I know him. He was TXST's head coach my very first year at TXST. We went 3-24 and lost to 2 non-D1 teams. He was gone after that season.

He wasn't successful in D1 but he has had some success at D2 Ouachita Baptist.

Well that's good to hear.

My mom is a Wonderboy (girl?) by the way. I lived in Russellville for a couple years in middle school. Charming city.

(04-08-2020 07:10 PM)_x_ Wrote:  Well that's good to hear.

My mom is a Wonderboy (girl?) by the way. I lived in Russellville for a couple years in middle school. Charming city.

She would be a Golden Sun (women's teams nickname). If you were there between 1982-2000 we might have crossed paths.

JSU wants and needs what Troy has, an ancient rival.

(04-08-2020 05:45 PM)T2003 Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 09:59 PM)RamblinRedWolf Wrote:  https://jsugamecocksports.com/news/2020/...eiled.aspx

Nothing special and its not FB exclusive

It is a fine addition

JSU fan here
At this time, I wouldnt be for moving anywhere nor would I advise any university or conference to make a move. Need to let Corona run its course.

If we make any kind of move let it be in any conference or division with the closest members. No one except loyal fans of these schools are going to watch JSU or Sunbelt/MAC/CUSA ... members no matter where or who they play. TV will pay the same no matter the state or how many are in any given state. Goal should be to keep cost low and easy travel for your fans. Our fan base and support would now fall in the range of the lower level FBS and most likely would not change much with a move.

JSU isnt UAT or Auburn and definitely will not be in my lifetime so no need in trying or blowing the money.

Question I have, will conferences expand to raise cash?

(04-14-2020 08:01 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Question I have, will conferences expand to raise cash?

For the Sun Belt, adding teams would not add enough revenue to justify the extra mouth(s) to feed once things go back to normal.

I said on our board that one good thing about being poor is that you don't structure your budget expecting to pay for things with large checks coming in from tv and the NCAA. We were getting scraps before and we are getting scraps now. So while a loss of 800k (figure given by our AD) sucks, we also saved almost that much in spring sport operating expenses.

Our AD didn't seem too worried about finances right now, but stressed the importance football to our overall budget, and said they will do everything they can to make fall sports happen even if it's delayed.

(04-14-2020 08:01 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Question I have, will conferences expand to raise cash?

You would see conferences contract before expanding, or you would see a reshuffling of conference members.

(04-14-2020 08:22 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  I said on our board that one good thing about being poor is that you don't structure your budget expecting to pay for things with large checks coming in from tv and the NCAA.

Exactly. Cinci just dropped their Men's Soccer. COVID has started the tightening of belts.