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Cataclysmo Online
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Post: #201
OT: COVID Check-In
Can everyone PLEASE just stop with the childish antics and instead act like Doss?

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05-06-2020 03:38 PM
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Post: #202
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-06-2020 03:33 PM)ladeda Wrote:  TLDR: If you opposed to re-opening-- state your claim with facts, not emotion. Pretend you are an adult, and not a child with name calling. It's sickening to see people just throw out insults like a petulant child. Grow up. You are better than that. If you aren't, then try to be better than that. You don't live in Cleveland.

I fully support Cleveland staying closed forever. All three of its skyscrapers and both of its remaining factories would do the world a favor if they never opened their doors again.
 
05-06-2020 04:54 PM
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doss2 Offline
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Post: #203
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-06-2020 04:54 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-06-2020 03:33 PM)ladeda Wrote:  TLDR: If you opposed to re-opening-- state your claim with facts, not emotion. Pretend you are an adult, and not a child with name calling. It's sickening to see people just throw out insults like a petulant child. Grow up. You are better than that. If you aren't, then try to be better than that. You don't live in Cleveland.

I fully support Cleveland staying closed forever. All three of its skyscrapers and both of its remaining factories would do the world a favor if they never opened their doors again.

I went to Cleveland once:

1. Years ago The Flats was cool. The Banks is as good.
2. They had put out the river fire.
3. The RR HOF is overrated.

Never have had a reason to return, doubt I will!
 
05-06-2020 05:38 PM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #204
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-06-2020 03:38 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Can everyone PLEASE just stop with the childish antics and instead act like Doss?

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03-lmfao
 
05-06-2020 06:07 PM
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Loco Bearcat Offline
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Post: #205
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-06-2020 03:33 PM)ladeda Wrote:  
(05-06-2020 08:07 AM)gerhard911 Wrote:  
(05-06-2020 07:38 AM)Banter Wrote:  What a bunch of knobs those people are.

Biggest knob of all is the a$$hat that posted it here.

(05-06-2020 08:17 AM)doss2 Wrote:  When juveniles cannot express themselves they resort to vulgar name calling.


Very rarely do I, but on this point, I have to agree 100% with Doss. If you have to resort to name calling, then you are a child who doesn't have an argument.

If you actually want to be an adult, and talk about Covid like an adult- then do so. But literally anyone who has to resort to name calling is a child and in the future shall be treated like one.

How about people actually take the time to discuss facts.

1.) The original goal was to "flatten the curve" so the hospitals wouldn't be overwhelmed. Are any hospitals currently overwhelmed? No-- they are basically empty. Well that's a good sign that you can start things up again.

2.) About half of the deaths are from the sickest of the sickest- nursing home patients. It doesn't matter if we reopen up or not-- they aren't exactly going out every day. The key is to protect the eldery and most vulnerable by improving safety protocol. The Cuomo strategy of sending Covid positive patients back to nursing homes was the opposite of protecting the well being of the elderly.

3.) It's tough to see on Ohio's website, because medical people fail @ statistics, but the most important stat is hospitalizations per day. We can't test everyone, but almost everyone who is very sick is going to go to the hospital.

There have been ZERO hospitalizations due to Covid in Hamilton County over the past 4 days. There have been a whopping 305 hospitalizations due to Covid in Hamilton County. 305. Is this reason to really shut everything down? The trend line of hospitalizations is great news that the worst is behind us.

4.) Look @ this chart of flu cases this year compared to the 5 year average.

https://odh.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/odh/...-activity/

Notice anything odd? Look @ the huge spike of flu hospitalizations between mid January and Mid March compared to the 5 year average. I'm going out on a limb and saying, that the spike over the 5 year average weren't flu cases, but Covid cases. If that is the case, then the worst has already passed.

5.) All people want is the option to open up. If you are elderly or have underlying health conditions and you want to stay indoors-- why should that prevent other people from going on with their lives just because you are afraid? Seriously. If you don't want to go out to a restaurant or get your hair cut-- why should that prevent others who want to?

It is time people took personal responsibility. If someone wants to go out at the risk of catching this from the very limited # of people who have it-- then that is THEIR choice, not yours.

6.) This isn't Ebola, this isn't the Black death. There is a risk in everything we do in life, and you can't stop it. When you get in your car, there is a risk of death. 38,000 people die every year in car crashes in the US. 38,000. Accidents in general were the 3rd leading cause of death in the US in 2017. I don't hear anyone saying-- 1 more car death is too many-- and no one should be allowed to drive cars.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr6...09-508.pdf

There is a risk to everything you do in life. You can slip and hit your head while walking, or choke on a piece of food. Yet everyday, we still eat and go for walks and get in an automobile.

Now that the estimates are the death rate could be between .25 and .50%, and you can halve that if you aren't in a nursing home--- then that is acceptable level of risk for MOST people to go out and continue with their lives. Especially those under 40, where the death rate is lower for Covid than the Flu. Do you bunker down every flu season if you are under 40? Nope.

7.) S Korea, Thailand and Hong Kong had minimal outbreaks (sans the religious cult outbreak in S Korea,) by wearing masks. IF 80% of people wear the cloth masks which only offer 60% protection, then that can cut the spread by more than half. Now what happens if 100% of the people out wear masks and some people wear surgical (not the N95 masks) that offer 90% protection? The transmission rate will be even lower.

When you consider how few hospitalizations there are right now in Hamilton County, and you factor in that most people will be wearing masks and spending more time on cleaning--- the risk of getting this disease is incredibly low.

8.) People need to eat. People need to pay rent/mortgage. It seems like the only people who are opposed to the economy coming back online are those who weren't working before Covid, those who can work from home or those who are making more money off of unemployment than @ their normal job, and don't want to go back to work because of that.

If you are old like Doss, then just hunker down for another month-- but that doesn't mean that younger and healthy people can't go back to work to try to make a living and put food on their table and a roof over their head.

Many people who live paycheck to paycheck and are struggling right now are literally going to get sick because of the financial stress. Relationships are being strained- calls into Suicide Prevention hotlines are going through the roof. There is an increase in depression in people which isn't healthy either.

The situation we are in is not good, and not healthy. There is risk to opening back up, but based on the data, there is a bigger risk NOT to open up.

If we follow safety protocols then we will be ok after reopening. I don't want to downplay Covid, and I'm not trying to. I'm just saying that right now-- there aren't that many cases and the risk to people is very limited. For the high risk people- stay hunkered down-- but for everyone else-- it's time to get back to normalcy.

Remember, this is a fluid situation. Testing will be vigilant and if there starts to be an uptick of hospitalizations 3-6 weeks from re-opening- then we have the opportunity to change course.



TLDR: If you opposed to re-opening-- state your claim with facts, not emotion. Pretend you are an adult, and not a child with name calling. It's sickening to see people just throw out insults like a petulant child. Grow up. You are better than that. If you aren't, then try to be better than that. You don't live in Cleveland.

You make some good points and I disagree with a couple. I believe we should reopen responsibly with Masks, Social Distancing, Contact Tracing, Antibody Testing, and Isolating Sick and Vulnerable people. We need to get this reopening just right, if we do not get this right the Health and Economic impacts will be cataclysmic.
Covid-19 is actually much deadlier than Ebola due to the high rate of spread and infection. Ebola can only be spread through direct contact of blood or body fluids. There have been outbreaks of Ebola but never a pandemic. Ebola has killed 15,000 people since it was discovered in 1976 (11,000 in 2014 Outbreak) where as Covid-19 has killed over 250,000 people worldwide and the real death count is most likely 2 to 3 times higher.
 
05-06-2020 06:32 PM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #206
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
Conspiracy theory culture going full tilt right now.
 
05-06-2020 06:59 PM
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namrag Offline
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Post: #207
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-06-2020 06:59 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Conspiracy theory culture going full tilt right now.

I’m curious which side of this you consider “conspiracy theory”?
 
05-06-2020 07:16 PM
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gerhard911 Offline
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Post: #208
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-06-2020 06:59 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Conspiracy theory culture going full tilt right now.

Just right now?
 
05-06-2020 09:08 PM
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glacier_dropsy Offline
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Post: #209
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
I am getting tired of people using the current death count in arguments about why social distancing was an overreaction, as if the measures had no effect on mortality. Furthermore, had we done nothing and naturally grown into a situation like Italy or NYC, the economy would tank due to the reaction to all the dying.

I am in favor of opening up the Ohio economy some, not concerts and Cavs games, but all retail should open.
 
05-06-2020 11:53 PM
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bearcat65 Online
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Post: #210
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-06-2020 03:33 PM)ladeda Wrote:  
(05-06-2020 08:07 AM)gerhard911 Wrote:  
(05-06-2020 07:38 AM)Banter Wrote:  What a bunch of knobs those people are.

Biggest knob of all is the a$$hat that posted it here.

(05-06-2020 08:17 AM)doss2 Wrote:  When juveniles cannot express themselves they resort to vulgar name calling.


Very rarely do I, but on this point, I have to agree 100% with Doss. If you have to resort to name calling, then you are a child who doesn't have an argument.

If you actually want to be an adult, and talk about Covid like an adult- then do so. But literally anyone who has to resort to name calling is a child and in the future shall be treated like one.

How about people actually take the time to discuss facts.

1.) The original goal was to "flatten the curve" so the hospitals wouldn't be overwhelmed. Are any hospitals currently overwhelmed? No-- they are basically empty. Well that's a good sign that you can start things up again.

2.) About half of the deaths are from the sickest of the sickest- nursing home patients. It doesn't matter if we reopen up or not-- they aren't exactly going out every day. The key is to protect the eldery and most vulnerable by improving safety protocol. The Cuomo strategy of sending Covid positive patients back to nursing homes was the opposite of protecting the well being of the elderly.

3.) It's tough to see on Ohio's website, because medical people fail @ statistics, but the most important stat is hospitalizations per day. We can't test everyone, but almost everyone who is very sick is going to go to the hospital.

There have been ZERO hospitalizations due to Covid in Hamilton County over the past 4 days. There have been a whopping 305 hospitalizations due to Covid in Hamilton County. 305. Is this reason to really shut everything down? The trend line of hospitalizations is great news that the worst is behind us.

4.) Look @ this chart of flu cases this year compared to the 5 year average.

https://odh.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/odh/...-activity/

Notice anything odd? Look @ the huge spike of flu hospitalizations between mid January and Mid March compared to the 5 year average. I'm going out on a limb and saying, that the spike over the 5 year average weren't flu cases, but Covid cases. If that is the case, then the worst has already passed.

5.) All people want is the option to open up. If you are elderly or have underlying health conditions and you want to stay indoors-- why should that prevent other people from going on with their lives just because you are afraid? Seriously. If you don't want to go out to a restaurant or get your hair cut-- why should that prevent others who want to?

It is time people took personal responsibility. If someone wants to go out at the risk of catching this from the very limited # of people who have it-- then that is THEIR choice, not yours.

6.) This isn't Ebola, this isn't the Black death. There is a risk in everything we do in life, and you can't stop it. When you get in your car, there is a risk of death. 38,000 people die every year in car crashes in the US. 38,000. Accidents in general were the 3rd leading cause of death in the US in 2017. I don't hear anyone saying-- 1 more car death is too many-- and no one should be allowed to drive cars.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr6...09-508.pdf

There is a risk to everything you do in life. You can slip and hit your head while walking, or choke on a piece of food. Yet everyday, we still eat and go for walks and get in an automobile.

Now that the estimates are the death rate could be between .25 and .50%, and you can halve that if you aren't in a nursing home--- then that is acceptable level of risk for MOST people to go out and continue with their lives. Especially those under 40, where the death rate is lower for Covid than the Flu. Do you bunker down every flu season if you are under 40? Nope.

7.) S Korea, Thailand and Hong Kong had minimal outbreaks (sans the religious cult outbreak in S Korea,) by wearing masks. IF 80% of people wear the cloth masks which only offer 60% protection, then that can cut the spread by more than half. Now what happens if 100% of the people out wear masks and some people wear surgical (not the N95 masks) that offer 90% protection? The transmission rate will be even lower.

When you consider how few hospitalizations there are right now in Hamilton County, and you factor in that most people will be wearing masks and spending more time on cleaning--- the risk of getting this disease is incredibly low.

8.) People need to eat. People need to pay rent/mortgage. It seems like the only people who are opposed to the economy coming back online are those who weren't working before Covid, those who can work from home or those who are making more money off of unemployment than @ their normal job, and don't want to go back to work because of that.

If you are old like Doss, then just hunker down for another month-- but that doesn't mean that younger and healthy people can't go back to work to try to make a living and put food on their table and a roof over their head.

Many people who live paycheck to paycheck and are struggling right now are literally going to get sick because of the financial stress. Relationships are being strained- calls into Suicide Prevention hotlines are going through the roof. There is an increase in depression in people which isn't healthy either.

The situation we are in is not good, and not healthy. There is risk to opening back up, but based on the data, there is a bigger risk NOT to open up.

If we follow safety protocols then we will be ok after reopening. I don't want to downplay Covid, and I'm not trying to. I'm just saying that right now-- there aren't that many cases and the risk to people is very limited. For the high risk people- stay hunkered down-- but for everyone else-- it's time to get back to normalcy.

Remember, this is a fluid situation. Testing will be vigilant and if there starts to be an uptick of hospitalizations 3-6 weeks from re-opening- then we have the opportunity to change course.



TLDR: If you opposed to re-opening-- state your claim with facts, not emotion. Pretend you are an adult, and not a child with name calling. It's sickening to see people just throw out insults like a petulant child. Grow up. You are better than that. If you aren't, then try to be better than that. You don't live in Cleveland.

Excellent post.
 
05-07-2020 06:57 AM
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levydl Offline
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Post: #211
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-06-2020 03:33 PM)ladeda Wrote:  But literally anyone who has to resort to name calling is a child.

I LOL'd.
 
05-07-2020 08:20 AM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #212
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-07-2020 08:20 AM)levydl Wrote:  
(05-06-2020 03:33 PM)ladeda Wrote:  But literally anyone who has to resort to name calling is a child.

I LOL'd.

03-lmfao
 
05-07-2020 08:43 AM
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Lush Offline
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Post: #213
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-06-2020 11:53 PM)glacier_dropsy Wrote:  I am getting tired of people using the current death count in arguments about why social distancing was an overreaction, as if the measures had no effect on mortality. Furthermore, had we done nothing and naturally grown into a situation like Italy or NYC, the economy would tank due to the reaction to all the dying.

I am in favor of opening up the Ohio economy some, not concerts and Cavs games, but all retail should open.

i like what bill seitz had to say. he said he wasn't interested in having that debate. just talk about reopening the state. this was a few weeks ago. social distancing couldn't have helped but work. whether or not it was the best approach is questionable. we aren't going to be back to a functioning society for quite awhile if whoever they are has their way. we'll see if saving a few hundred thousand people was worth it
 
05-07-2020 11:19 AM
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Loco Bearcat Offline
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Post: #214
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-06-2020 11:53 PM)glacier_dropsy Wrote:  I am getting tired of people using the current death count in arguments about why social distancing was an overreaction, as if the measures had no effect on mortality. Furthermore, had we done nothing and naturally grown into a situation like Italy or NYC, the economy would tank due to the reaction to all the dying.

I am in favor of opening up the Ohio economy some, not concerts and Cavs games, but all retail should open.

Great post.
 
05-07-2020 12:09 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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RE: OT: COVID Check-In
03-lmfao

 
05-07-2020 01:16 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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RE: OT: COVID Check-In
Is that a gorgeous picture or what...

 
05-07-2020 01:33 PM
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glacier_dropsy Offline
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Post: #217
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-07-2020 11:19 AM)Lush Wrote:  
(05-06-2020 11:53 PM)glacier_dropsy Wrote:  I am getting tired of people using the current death count in arguments about why social distancing was an overreaction, as if the measures had no effect on mortality. Furthermore, had we done nothing and naturally grown into a situation like Italy or NYC, the economy would tank due to the reaction to all the dying.

I am in favor of opening up the Ohio economy some, not concerts and Cavs games, but all retail should open.

i like what bill seitz had to say. he said he wasn't interested in having that debate. just talk about reopening the state. this was a few weeks ago. social distancing couldn't have helped but work. whether or not it was the best approach is questionable. we aren't going to be back to a functioning society for quite awhile if whoever they are has their way. we'll see if saving a few hundred thousand people was worth it

I agree that it may not have been the best approach. But I would like to remind you at the time the governor started announcing these restrictions, we knew the virus was spreading in the community, and had almost no way to test for it. Add on that hospitals could not find masks and gowns to keep their workers safe. We only had one tool that could buy some time.
 
05-07-2020 05:37 PM
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Bearcatbdub Offline
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Post: #218
RE: OT: COVID Check-In
**** I work in a hospital we are furloughing people. We got all the **** we need. Let’s beat this virus the American way. By punching it in the ******* mouth!
 
05-07-2020 10:55 PM
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glacier_dropsy Offline
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RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-07-2020 10:55 PM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  **** I work in a hospital we are furloughing people. We got all the **** we need. Let’s beat this virus the American way. By punching it in the ******* mouth!

Keep that fire burnin', 'cuz that is what we are about to do. Our testing capability is better, turn around times are more like 36-72 hrs instead of 1-2 weeks. I'm still using the same N95 from March that is down to one strap that I keep in a brown paper bag in my car, but I hear most hospitals have some and are holding on to them. Maybe we'll even find something therapeutic, a useful intervention, that would be fun, instead of just noticing their ferritin is skyrocketing while they notice their breath is getting short.
 
05-08-2020 06:00 AM
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mlb Offline
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RE: OT: COVID Check-In
(05-07-2020 10:55 PM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  **** I work in a hospital we are furloughing people. We got all the **** we need. Let’s beat this virus the American way. By punching it in the ******* mouth!
Same here. Thankfully I made it through our first round of furloughs.

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05-08-2020 06:22 AM
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