The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(04-04-2020 09:58 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 08:33 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 07:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...story.html

Great article, but tells us what we already know. Go all-in on basketball.

Yep. I could have told them, and have said here numerous times, what that report told them, and for free.

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ODU has a long proud history of paying consultants to tell them the obvious.

Well, I'm just surprised that they hired Dr. Sanders. He was the AD at VCU when ODU was considering Football, and he is the one who is credited with deciding that VCU should work on advancing the MBB program. He hired JCIII. He never was in favor of VCU even sniffing Football. So, you hire someone who you know would not be in favor of Football and loves basketball, what do you expect him to say?

(04-04-2020 09:56 AM)monarx Wrote:  ODU would bring value to the A10. Rivalries, fan base, media market. Another southern school for Davidson. It’s really a great fit. I hope this is setting things up for that move. I’d prefer the AAC but just don’t see that happening, even with UConn leaving. Maybe if they hadn’t added Wichita or Navy left.

Not just a media market, but a relevant media market. ODU vs North Texas isn't getting bought by outfits like CSN, but ODU vs VCU, GW, or Richmond is. Two schools in the same region makes a huge difference in media interest. Just hope 2012 is water under the bridge.

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(04-04-2020 09:58 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 08:33 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 07:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...story.html

Great article, but tells us what we already know. Go all-in on basketball.

Yep. I could have told them, and have said here numerous times, what that report told them, and for free.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

ODU has a long proud history of paying consultants to tell them the obvious.

That is standard procedure for many, if not most mid tier Universities.

Generally, the University already knows what it wants to do or is going to do.
The consultant is "prompted" in that direction, and at conclusion, the University can use that result to justify subsequent actions and decisions that usually were predetermined before the consultant was engaged.

It is all about CYA

(04-04-2020 11:01 AM)fmrick Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 09:58 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 08:33 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 07:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...story.html

Great article, but tells us what we already know. Go all-in on basketball.

Yep. I could have told them, and have said here numerous times, what that report told them, and for free.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

ODU has a long proud history of paying consultants to tell them the obvious.

Well, I'm just surprised that they hired Dr. Sanders. He was the AD at VCU when ODU was considering Football, and he is the one who is credited with deciding that VCU should work on advancing the MBB program. He hired JCIII. He never was in favor of VCU even sniffing Football. So, you hire someone who you know would not be in favor of Football and loves basketball, what do you expect him to say?

Expected him to say exactly what he said. I don't think we'll give up football or even drop to FCS, but setting up an indy situation for football or a football only conference.

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(04-04-2020 11:13 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 09:58 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 08:33 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 07:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...story.html

Great article, but tells us what we already know. Go all-in on basketball.

Yep. I could have told them, and have said here numerous times, what that report told them, and for free.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

ODU has a long proud history of paying consultants to tell them the obvious.

That is standard procedure for many, if not most mid tier Universities.

Generally, the University knows what it wants to do or is going to do.
The consultant is "prompted" in that direction, and at conclusion, the University can use that result to justify subsequent actions and decisions.

It is all about CYA

Yep, this ^^^

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(04-04-2020 09:58 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 08:33 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 07:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...story.html

Great article, but tells us what we already know. Go all-in on basketball.

Yep. I could have told them, and have said here numerous times, what that report told them, and for free.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

ODU has a long proud history of paying consultants to tell them the obvious.

Quality post

(04-04-2020 11:13 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 09:58 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 08:33 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 07:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...story.html

Great article, but tells us what we already know. Go all-in on basketball.

Yep. I could have told them, and have said here numerous times, what that report told them, and for free.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

ODU has a long proud history of paying consultants to tell them the obvious.

That is standard procedure for many, if not most mid tier Universities.

Generally, the University already knows what it wants to do or is going to do.
The consultant is "prompted" in that direction, and at conclusion, the University can use that result to justify subsequent actions and decisions that usually were predetermined before the consultant was engaged.

It is all about CYA

How much consulting experience do yall have? I do a significant amount of consulting and if this was standard operating procedure, I would not be in business very long. Besides it being illegal.

"With the great history, the fertile recruiting geography and one of the top facilities in the country, men’s and women’s basketball significantly provide the best opportunity to make a major beneficial impact for the institution."

Lotsa talk about basketball, almost no talk of football.

Y'all, I think we're going independent. Where does that land ODU olympics... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(04-04-2020 01:22 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 11:13 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 09:58 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 08:33 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 07:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...story.html

Great article, but tells us what we already know. Go all-in on basketball.

Yep. I could have told them, and have said here numerous times, what that report told them, and for free.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

ODU has a long proud history of paying consultants to tell them the obvious.

That is standard procedure for many, if not most mid tier Universities.

Generally, the University already knows what it wants to do or is going to do.
The consultant is "prompted" in that direction, and at conclusion, the University can use that result to justify subsequent actions and decisions that usually were predetermined before the consultant was engaged.

It is all about CYA

How much consulting experience do yall have? I do a significant amount of consulting and if this was standard operating procedure, I would not be in business very long. Besides it being illegal.

In my experience, multiple times, my teams have been tasked with developing plans and making recommendations for things over the years. We do the research, develop a strategy, course of action etc. the bosses listen, but frequently feel they need to have the backup of a high paid consultant telling them the same thing, or else the top brass won’t buy it. It’s totally a CYA effort. In fact I just went through this process yet again, with my direct boss basically saying we just need them to tell the big boss our strategy so they’ll feel better signing off. Top brass do not believe things unless they pay a lot of money for it. It’s a dance. It’s helpful, because we eventually execute our original plan. The bosses are just scared to do so without spending lots of unneeded money for a consultant to regurgitate everything we’ve already told them. Basically paying for sign off and the ability to say “we did our due diligence, and it’s what the consultant said” if the strategy fails. I’ve seen it time and time again. It doesn’t even bug me much anymore. Just part of the game. But a waste of money usually.

(04-03-2020 07:42 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 07:28 PM)monarx Wrote:  Setting the foundation for a conference change it seems. I still think Judy McLeod has to bear a lot of the responsibility for this boondoggle too. The CUSA we joined was fine. The benefits outweighed the negatives. The conference has gone off a cliff since we joined and is no longer worth it. Only three conferences make any sense for ODU. AAC, A10, CAA. In that order. Unless of course a new conference arises.

This pandemic could be the catalyst we need for sensible realignment to happen.

Realignment now!

As my boss taught me. Don't walk the plank alone.

(04-04-2020 01:53 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  "With the great history, the fertile recruiting geography and one of the top facilities in the country, men’s and women’s basketball significantly provide the best opportunity to make a major beneficial impact for the institution."

Lotsa talk about basketball, almost no talk of football.

Y'all, I think we're going independent. Where does that land ODU olympics... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Serious question: Was there a link to the entire report?

I took it as a former UVA/NSU basketball beat reporter reporting on the aspects that related to basketball.

As someone mentioned on twitter, ODU will not be alone on this. They are the canary in the coal mine...other colleges just didn't have a new report that got FOIA'd. You will see this, in varying degrees, at every school save those precious few with elephantine endowments.

This pandemic may well be the impetus for geographical realignment for G6 and for conference realignment even among P5, as the haves really pull away from the have nots.

The full report is now embedded at the bottom of the Pilot/DP story.

There is a link now.

https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...story.html

p.13 taken as a whole paints a little clearer picture...

Over the next year, ODU Athletics has the challenge and opportunity to make major decisions that will set the course for the future. ODU must establish priorities and invest in the sports that provide maximum benefit. With the great history, the fertile recruiting geography and one of the top facilities in the country; men’s and women’s basketball significantly provide the best opportunity to make a major beneficial impact for the institution. When looking at aspirational basketball programs (Wichita State, Memphis, San Diego State) that are public institutions, it is clear that those programs have made significant financial investments. In the most recent Department of Education EADA report, the numbers tell the story:

The following charts clearly demonstrate that for ODU to compete in men’s and women’s basketball, and football, they cannot reduce funding for their top 3 programs.

University MBB Annual Expense WBB Annual Expense
Old Dominion University $3,348,329 $2,275,571
Wichita State $7,513,193 $2,528,714
San Diego State $6,207,228 $3,054,677
Memphis $11,859,500 $2,517,403

Additionally, with the major investment in football, ODU must continue to invest to position itself as a competitive FBS program and to insure return of investment. Any reduction in investment in football would be unwise and be self-defeating. Looking at aspirational Group of Five programs, ODU cannot reduce their current investment if there is any expectation for future success.
Following is a snapshot of aspirational Group of Five football budgets:

University Budget
Old Dominion University $10,694,000
Boise State $11,803,000
University of Memphis $17,569,000
South Florida $13,310,130

Looks like we need to double what we spend on Men’s basketball. Everything else seems to be close to in line with our aspirational peers... just need better conference affiliation and geographic presence.

(04-04-2020 11:01 AM)fmrick Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 09:58 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 08:33 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 07:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...story.html

Great article, but tells us what we already know. Go all-in on basketball.

Yep. I could have told them, and have said here numerous times, what that report told them, and for free.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

ODU has a long proud history of paying consultants to tell them the obvious.

Well, I'm just surprised that they hired Dr. Sanders. He was the AD at VCU when ODU was considering Football, and he is the one who is credited with deciding that VCU should work on advancing the MBB program. He hired JCIII. He never was in favor of VCU even sniffing Football. So, you hire someone who you know would not be in favor of Football and loves basketball, what do you expect him to say?

I imagine they knew what they were going to get, and this was just setting the table for moves they are going to make that will renew the commitment to basketball. That's what I'm hoping anyway.

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(04-03-2020 10:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:12 PM)ODU1986 Wrote:  A10 already has 14 schools. Even with the support of VCU, Richmond and Mason doubt we would get enough votes overall for an invite.


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Unless the Big East adds Dayton.

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1. Big East doesn't need Dayton or St. Louis or anyone. They've got 11 schools with UConn coming on board, which means they can do a double round-robin for 20 games, which is the magic number for the major conferences. Unless Gonzaga moves to Baltimore or Cleveland, the Big East has no need to add.
2. Even if Dayton leaves, the A10 can go forward with 13 teams. Even numbers is only important for football scheduling. With basketball it just means you play one more team twice than your already do. So the A10 has no need to add.

I do agree, but it is hypothetically possible. The Big East doesn't need to do anything, but maybe the feel someone adds value. ODU certainly adds big value to the A10... just not sure if Wood burned that bridge.

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Let's assume that someone leaves the A10 (I think we can agree that the A10 isn't adding a 15th/16th team). I agree that ODU has value, but it's not that simple. First, the A10 would have to want to get back to 14. Second, there might be political considerations: namely, the Northeast Corridor schools have seen the league go further and further south with their additions (VCU, George Mason, Davidson). They might raise some hell if there's a fifth Virginia/Carolinas school, just like ODU and CUSA East schools would if an eastern-facing school was replaced by Texas State or Louisiana.

But the Big East is the real roadblock. For them, 11 is the perfect number. Even if they wanted 12, Dayton would draw too much opposition from Xavier and Marquette, and St. Louis may not be to their standards. Unless Boston College, West Virginia or Notre Dame decided to return, I don't see them adding.

How do you demonstrate a renewed commitment to Bball?

Answer: Get a new coach

(04-04-2020 07:14 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  How do you demonstrate a renewed commitment to Bball?

Answer: Get a new coach

Everyone knows he gets one more year. And our team next year should be lethal if we can land a quality big. Another repeat year and the outcome is a foregone conclusion.

(04-04-2020 05:52 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:35 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:12 PM)ODU1986 Wrote:  A10 already has 14 schools. Even with the support of VCU, Richmond and Mason doubt we would get enough votes overall for an invite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unless the Big East adds Dayton.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

1. Big East doesn't need Dayton or St. Louis or anyone. They've got 11 schools with UConn coming on board, which means they can do a double round-robin for 20 games, which is the magic number for the major conferences. Unless Gonzaga moves to Baltimore or Cleveland, the Big East has no need to add.
2. Even if Dayton leaves, the A10 can go forward with 13 teams. Even numbers is only important for football scheduling. With basketball it just means you play one more team twice than your already do. So the A10 has no need to add.

I do agree, but it is hypothetically possible. The Big East doesn't need to do anything, but maybe the feel someone adds value. ODU certainly adds big value to the A10... just not sure if Wood burned that bridge.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Let's assume that someone leaves the A10 (I think we can agree that the A10 isn't adding a 15th/16th team). I agree that ODU has value, but it's not that simple. First, the A10 would have to want to get back to 14. Second, there might be political considerations: namely, the Northeast Corridor schools have seen the league go further and further south with their additions (VCU, George Mason, Davidson). They might raise some hell if there's a fifth Virginia/Carolinas school, just like ODU and CUSA East schools would if an eastern-facing school was replaced by Texas State or Louisiana.

But the Big East is the real roadblock. For them, 11 is the perfect number. Even if they wanted 12, Dayton would draw too much opposition from Xavier and Marquette, and St. Louis may not be to their standards. Unless Boston College, West Virginia or Notre Dame decided to return, I don't see them adding.

There is a better chance of the A10 to going to 15 and adding ODU regardless of the Big East than there is of ODU ever getting into the AAC. There would be an even better chance if Wood Selig waals replaced. Hard to believe this report would ever see the light of day if there isn't some kind of path in mind. Can't imagine what other path there is other than CAA and FBS Indy.

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