(06-13-2020 12:23 AM)RunnerBall Wrote:  

(04-05-2020 11:02 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  It will be interesting to watch from afar how well CSUB and UMKC will do in basketball in their respective new conferences. It will give the WAC a gauge on it own health (strength) if both schools do better in the standings there than in this conference. I am rooting for CSUB and UMKC to do well in the Big West and Summit. We will see if Barnes can respark the Runners; as he looks like he is on his final days as a head coach. And, if Donlon will prove to be the coach that finally turn the Roos around; a coaching hire too late to benefit the WAC. Both fans bases should be happier being in conferences with a better regional fits.

Wow... my first post in.... quite a while. I see some new faces here along with many "old" fellow posters I still consider WAC compatriots.

Yes, it will be interesting to see the 'Runners in action in our new conference... WHENEVER that will occur.
Personally, I think we've gone as far as we can with Barnes, and it may be interesting to see how he does in the BW, but more so, how long the school is willing to keep (current) mediocrity under him, should it continue.

Personally, I follow baseball much more closely (than basketball), and am both interested (recruiting changes) and concerned (facility improvements) with that angle.

Sitting on a toilet somewhere and interacting with you.

Looking at the talent Barnes has assembled for this upcoming season, I think this could be his best Runner team since his NCAA team five years ago. And subsequently, CSUB has an honest chance at winning the BWC in their inaugural season. However, since that 2016 team which played tremendous defense, I have noticed very prevalently that unless Barnes has players who have the natural abilities to score points, Barnes doesn't run a very sophisticated style of offense. Hence, the program Barnes has built at CSUB is a one trick pony; a team which can play suffocating defense but at the same time be stifled offensively by better tactical coaches. Since Barnes coaches such an aggressive style of defense and most of the BWC coaches are unfamiliar with CSUB's team, Barnes' Runners might be able to surprise the conference from the onset.

Any coach that can win 49 games in 2 years at Cal State Bakersfield and take them to Madison Square Garden for the NIT is a stud.

(06-14-2020 05:57 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Any coach that can win 49 games in 2 years at Cal State Bakersfield and take them to Madison Square Garden for the NIT is a stud.

If Barnes was able to continue that feat throughout his WAC tenure, I might agree with you. But reflecting back on those two years, I feel it was more a case of Barnes catching lightening in a bottle with a specific group of players (Basile, Wrapp, Airington, Mays, and Aly with their team chemistry) than Barnes ability to coach. Otherwise, he would have been able to duplicate that feat time and time again. Keep in mind, Barnes is barely a winning coach (333-329) at only 4 games above 0.500 from his career. At no time was Barnes more successful than that two year window; when the Runners went to the NCAA and followed it up with a NIT run to MSG.

I would also point out that Barnes let a first year coach in Paul Weir (without Pascal Siakam) get the better of him and his team in the following retribution year; after the Runners stunned NMSU in the WAC Tournament. I would argue that at one time, Barnes might have been the best coach in the WAC but that was short lived after NMSU replaced Menzies with Weir and, Majerle, Pope, and Hill gained traction with their respective programs. And, further exacerbated by the addition of Chris Jans, Rick Croy, Jim Hayford, and Billy Donlon to the conference. At this point, if CSUB & UMKC had remained in the WAC, I would only put Barnes clearly ahead of Madsen and Irvin in coaching ability. But Jans, Drew, Gillispie, Croy, Hayford, Hill, Donlon, and Judkins are arguably better coaches than Barnes these days.

I think the move to the BWC might revitalize Barnes' career; as no one in that conference has had to deal with CSUB's brand of aggressive defense and above average athleticism on its roster.

Below is the hierarchy of the coaches (winning percentage at four year institutions) in the WAC, BWC, and Summit. Admittedly various coaches have participated at various levels of competition (P5, G5, DII, DIII, NAIA). But it does show a coach's desire to win at whatever level of competition.

WAC
1. Chris Jans... Overall... 104-29 (0.784)... @ New Mexico State... 83-17 (0.830)
2. Rick Croy... Overall... 169-54 (0.758)... @ California Baptist... 169-54 (0.758)
3. Jon Judkins... Overall... 265-121 (0.678)... @ Dixie State... 265-121 (0.678)
4. Jim Hayford... Overall... 412-219 (0.653)... @ Seattle University... 52-44 (0.542)
5. Bryce Drew... Overall... 164-108 (0.603)... @ Grand Canyon... 0-0 (0.000)
6. Billy Gillespie... Overall... 148-108 (0.578)... @ Tarleton State... 0-0 (0.000)
7. Lew Hill... Overall... 59-73 (0.447)... @ UT Rio Grande Valley... 59-77 (0.447)
8. Mark Madsen... Overall... 11-19 (0.367)... @ Utah Valley... 11-19 (0.367)
9. Lance Irvin... Overall... 7-54 (0.115)... @ Chicago State... 7-54 (0.115)

https://www.coachesdatabase.com/wac-basketball-coaches/

Big West
1. Eric Olen... Overall 159-56 (0.740)... @ UC San Diego... (0.740)
2. Mark Gottfried... Overall... 429-279 (0.606)... @ Cal State Northridge... 28-38 (0.424)
3. Eran Ganot... Overall... 89-58 (0.605)... @ Hawaii... 86-56 (0.606)
4. Russell Turner... Overall 209-139 (0.601)... @ UC Irvine... 209-139 (0.601)
5. Joe Pasternack... Overall 104-83 (0.556)... @ UC Santa Barbara 66-29 (0.695)
6. Don Monson... Overall... 381-340 (0.528)... @ Long Beach State... 211-217 (0.493)
7. Rod Barnes... Overall... 333-329 (0.503)... @ Cal State Bakersfield... 148-141 (0.512)
8. Jim Les... Overall... 288-293 (0.496)... @ UC Davis... 134-153 (0.467)
9. Dedrique Taylor... Overall... 94-127 (0.425)... @ Cal State Fullerton... 94-127 (0.425)
10. David Patrick... Overall 27-38 (0.415)... @ UC Riverside... 27-38 (0.415)
11. John Smith... Overall... 7-23 (0.233)... @ Cal Poly... 7-23 (0.233)

https://www.coachesdatabase.com/big-west...l-coaches/

Summit
1. Eric Henderson... Overall... 22-10 (0.688)... @ South Dakota State... 22-10 (0.688)
2. Paul Sather... Overall... 297-169 (0.637)... @ North Dakota... 15-18 (0.455)
3. Todd Lee... Overall... 187-110 (0.630)... @ South Dakota... 33-29 (0.532)
4. David Richman... Overall... 121-75 (0.617)... @ North Dakota State... 121-75 (0.617)
5. Billy Donlon... Overall... 125-108 (0.536)... @ UM Kansas City... 16-14 (0.533)
6. Derrin Hansen... 243-215 (0.531)... @ UN Omaha... 243-215 (0.531)
7. Rod Jeter... Overall... 184-170 (0.520)... @ Western Illinois 0-0 (0.000)
8. Paul Mills... Overall... 39-56 (0.411)... @ Oral Roberts... 39-56 (0.411)
9. Rodney Billups... Overall... 46-75 (0.380)... @ Denver University... 46-75 (0.380)

https://www.coachesdatabase.com/summit-l...l-coaches/

All coaches combined (four of the top six winningest coaches are in the WAC)...
1. Chris Jans... Overall... 104-29 (0.784)... @ New Mexico State... 83-17 (0.830)... WAC
2. Rick Croy... Overall... 169-54 (0.758)... @ California Baptist... 169-54 (0.758)... WAC
3. Eric Olen... Overall 159-56 (0.740)... @ UC San Diego... (0.740)... Big West
4. Eric Henderson... Overall... 22-10 (0.688)... @ South Dakota State... 22-10 (0.688)... Summit
5. Jon Judkins... Overall... 265-121 (0.678)... @ Dixie State... 265-121 (0.678)... WAC
6. Jim Hayford... Overall... 412-219 (0.653)... @ Seattle University... 52-44 (0.542)... WAC
7. Paul Sather... Overall... 297-169 (0.637)... @ North Dakota... 15-18 (0.455)... Summit
8. Todd Lee... Overall... 187-110 (0.630)... @ South Dakota... 33-29 (0.532)... Summit
9. David Richman... Overall... 121-75 (0.617)... @ North Dakota State... 121-75 (0.617)... Summit
10. Mark Gottfried... Overall... 429-279 (0.606)... @ Cal State Northridge... 28-38 (0.424)... Big West
11. Eran Ganot... Overall... 89-58 (0.605)... @ Hawaii... 86-56 (0.606)... Big West
12. Bryce Drew... Overall... 164-108 (0.603)... @ Grand Canyon... 0-0 (0.000)... WAC
13. Russell Turner... Overall 209-139 (0.601)... @ UC Irvine... 209-139 (0.601)... Big West
14. Billy Gillespie... Overall... 148-108 (0.578)... @ Tarleton State... 0-0 (0.000)... WAC
15. Joe Pasternack... Overall 104-83 (0.556)... @ UC Santa Barbara 66-29 (0.695)... Big West
16. Billy Donlon... Overall... 125-108 (0.536)... @ UM Kansas City... 16-14 (0.533)... Summit
17. Derrin Hansen... 243-215 (0.531)... @ UN Omaha... 243-215 (0.531)... Summit
18. Don Monson... Overall... 381-340 (0.528)... @ Long Beach State... 211-217 (0.493)... Big West
19. Rod Jeter... Overall... 184-170 (0.520)... @ Western Illinois 0-0 (0.000)... Summit
20. Rod Barnes... Overall... 333-329 (0.503)... @ Cal State Bakersfield... 148-141 (0.512)... Big West
21. Jim Les... Overall... 288-293 (0.496)... @ UC Davis... 134-153 (0.467)... Big West
22. Lew Hill... Overall... 59-73 (0.447)... @ UT Rio Grande Valley... 59-77 (0.447)... WAC
23. Dedrique Taylor... Overall... 94-127 (0.425)... @ Cal State Fullerton... 94-127 (0.425)... Big West
24. David Patrick... Overall 27-38 (0.415)... @ UC Riverside... 27-38 (0.415)... Big West
25. Paul Mills... Overall... 39-56 (0.411)... @ Oral Roberts... 39-56 (0.411)... Summit
26. Rodney Billups... Overall... 46-75 (0.380)... @ Denver University... 46-75 (0.380)... Summit
27. Mark Madsen... Overall... 11-19 (0.367)... @ Utah Valley... 11-19 (0.367)... WAC
28. John Smith... Overall... 7-23 (0.233)... @ Cal Poly... 7-23 (0.233)... Big West
29. Lance Irvin... Overall... 7-54 (0.115)... @ Chicago State... 7-54 (0.115)... WAC

Umm, Pete? UCSB has had some athletes in recent years under Pasternack. 3* to 4* players too.

(06-16-2020 04:57 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Umm, Pete? UCSB has had some athletes in recent years under Pasternack. 3* to 4* players too.

Yes, and outside of Eric Olan who amassed all his wins at UC San Diego prior to join the BWC, Joe Pasternack has done the best of the coaches at their BWC schools currently; with a 0.695 winning percentage. However, UCSB has yet to go to post season play in his three season's there.

It has been UC Irvine that has gone to the last three Championship games (minus COVID19 in 2020). But the Anteaters have only won it once in the last three attempts. There is no dominant coach in the BWC. Only various teams which get hot at the right time.

On a side note, Joe Pasternack was a finalist for the NMSU job after Menzies took the UNLV job. However, Parternack asked for too much money and a major investment in the basketball program if he were to consider the job. Concurrently, there was a ground swell to hire Aggie Assistant Paul Weir instead and the rest is history.

I am just point out that I feel it is more difficult for a coach like Barnes or Donlon to win the WAC than the conferences they reside in now. The BWC is winnable for Barnes. And, the Summit is winnable for Donlon. Both would continue to hit the brick wall of Jans, Drew, Croy, and soon Gillispie in the WAC.

One more week until Dixie State and Tarleton State are officially WAC members and Cal State Bakersfield and UM Kansas City can be removed from the official WAC site and this WAC board.

Sad to see Bako go. Good riddance UMKC!

14 men's basketball games between UMKC and Seattle.

UMKC 9 Seattle 5

<Points to scoreboard>

(06-25-2020 01:37 PM)BigRoo Wrote:  14 men's basketball games between UMKC and Seattle.

UMKC 9 Seattle 5

<Points to scoreboard>

Great. One week to go and homie over here decides to post for the first time. Smh...

(06-25-2020 01:37 PM)BigRoo Wrote:  14 men's basketball games between UMKC and Seattle.

UMKC 9 Seattle 5

<Points to scoreboard>

Congrats you out scored the mighty powerhouse that is SU by 80 point in 14 games.

V NMSU 1-15
V GCU 4-11
V UVU 9-10
V UTRGV 12-13
V Chicago St 37-11
V CSUB 5-9
V CBU 3-1
V Seattle 9-5

(06-25-2020 01:37 PM)BigRoo Wrote:  14 men's basketball games between UMKC and Seattle.

UMKC 9 Seattle 5

<Points to scoreboard>

Good luck in the Summit! You will be just as bad there, as you were here.

Thanks. Keep waiting for that WCC invite.

Hope Bryce Drew has recovered from turning Vandy into the Chicago State of the SEC. 0-18 in conference his last year? After he started having a majority of his recruits? GCU bought themselves into a conference, now they need to work on buying some conference championships.

(06-25-2020 04:07 PM)BigRoo Wrote:  Thanks. Keep waiting for that WCC invite.

Hope Bryce Drew has recovered from turning Vandy into the Chicago State of the SEC. 0-18 in conference his last year? After he started having a majority of his recruits? GCU bought themselves into a conference, now they need to work on buying some conference championships.

You're right 40–59 overall at Vandy is very Chicago St level of play. In the last 10 years CSU has won as many league games as Drew did at Vandy.

Nothing says winner like a 81-132 overall and a dominating 46-57 record in WAC matchups.

Enjoy losing to the Todd Father in the Summit and remember your school couldn't hang with WAC.

Played Todd Lee and his South Dakota team on 12/22/19 at their place.

We beat them 78-75.

You sure got me there! Dopes87

Just having fun, since this is my last time visiting this message board. In all seriousness, UMKC underperformed during their time in the WAC.
I am glad our AD was able to obtain an invite to a conference much closer to home.
Rumored savings in travel alone will be nearly $1 million. That looms even larger now in these Covid-19 times where even Division 1 schools are cutting sports in order to make budgets.
No hard feelings, wish we could have done better during our time in the WAC. Good luck in the future to all WAC members.

One day it would be nice to be in the WCC. I actually like the WAC and if SU can’t win the WAC, they have no shot at competing in the WCC.

(06-25-2020 11:35 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Sad to see Bako go. Good riddance UMKC!

Yah, thanks. We've been through a lot together in these last few years, when the WAC was on the brink of death. I'm glad the conference has rebounded VERY nicely, better than I think almost anyone could have hoped for. I'm glad my school was one of several who had a hand in that.

Sitting on a toilet somewhere and interacting with you.

(06-26-2020 02:15 PM)RunnerBall Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 11:35 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Sad to see Bako go. Good riddance UMKC!

Yah, thanks. We've been through a lot together in these last few years, when the WAC was on the brink of death. I'm glad the conference has rebounded VERY nicely, better than I think almost anyone could have hoped for. I'm glad my school was one of several who had a hand in that.

Sitting on a toilet somewhere and interacting with you.

I am not surprised the WAC is still around, but glad we had a hand in keeping it alive. I wish the CSUB fans well in the Big West. I don’t agree with the move, as you guys will just be another California school with no identity. I understand why you’re moving and have no issues, just wish you all could have stayed.

Cal State Bakersfield fit the WAC footprint very well. I'm going to hate to see them leave. Now that UMKC has Billy Donlon, I would have liked to have seen if they could've played a greater factor in the WAC. I think both schools will do well (better) in their respective new conference. As I have said before, NMSU was a very tall hurdle to clear if either wanted to see post season play. I think the Big West and Summit are more winnable for programs like CSUB and UMKC... Just about the time Rod Barnes was starting to figure out Marvin Menzies, NMSU upped the ante with the hiring of Chris Jans.