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I’m Turning Japanese
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bobdizole Offline
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Post: #21
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
(04-02-2020 03:31 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 01:32 PM)green Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 01:20 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  What about all those American doctors and scientist all over MSM that said the mask were useless in the last 3-8 weeks. Only useful for doctors so they don't infect their patients.

Fake News?



https://twitter.com/wgw1123/status/1245777250546520064

I PROTECT YOU FROM ME

I was agreeing with your post. I'm questioning why we heard for weeks that mask were useless for all of us in the general public. They made it sound like there were zero benefits to mask.

They won't help you from getting the bug if I understand this correctly, but they are finding this bug spreads so much easier than they think if everyone wore a mask it would cut down on the spread.
04-02-2020 04:24 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
(04-02-2020 04:19 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 04:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 03:31 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  I was agreeing with your post. I'm questioning why we heard for weeks that mask were useless for all of us in the general public. They made it sound like there were zero benefits to mask.
Because they must be applied correctly, worn consistently, handled appropriately and fit to you to be effective. Healthcare workers are trained to do so and monitor each other... 'people' are not.

11blades and 5-0 are also very beneficial, but we don't want the general public using them either.

Is it really that hard to apply correctly? The directions I've read online seem pretty basic (like before elementary basic). I get most probably wouldn't handle them appropriately over an extended period of time.

I'm with Japan might as well use them even if "some" may not follow instructions correctly.

No they aren't... but you'd be amazed. I've seen absolutely ridiculous things.

The biggest problem is that because they don't let much moisture through (hence they are somewhat effective) you don't breathe as well through them and you sweat under them. It's more of a 'we know you won't wear this correctly and often enough for it to matter'... and of course, that likely nobody is looking out for you if it gaps. The most common thing is that if you fit it to yourself, it almost forms a seal... and people get hot or wet or can't breathe or can't speak clearly so they break the seal and leave it open... which means it does no good but you THINK it is, so maybe you aren't as careful? Even as simple as stretching your mouth every few minutes to 'get some air', as well as some virus.... or moving it to scratch your nose... with your unprotected and unwashed hand... but you know, you're okay because you're wearing a mask.

healthcare workers, the elderly or compromised, first responders should use them. Everyone else... whatever....
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2020 04:28 PM by Hambone10.)
04-02-2020 04:25 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
(04-02-2020 04:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 04:19 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 04:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 03:31 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  I was agreeing with your post. I'm questioning why we heard for weeks that mask were useless for all of us in the general public. They made it sound like there were zero benefits to mask.
Because they must be applied correctly, worn consistently, handled appropriately and fit to you to be effective. Healthcare workers are trained to do so and monitor each other... 'people' are not.

11blades and 5-0 are also very beneficial, but we don't want the general public using them either.

Is it really that hard to apply correctly? The directions I've read online seem pretty basic (like before elementary basic). I get most probably wouldn't handle them appropriately over an extended period of time.

I'm with Japan might as well use them even if "some" may not follow instructions correctly.

No they aren't... but you'd be amazed. I've seen absolutely ridiculous things.

The biggest problem is that because they don't let much moisture through (hence they are somewhat effective) you don't breathe as well through them and you sweat under them. It's more of a 'we know you won't wear this correctly and often enough for it to matter'... and of course, that likely nobody is looking out for you if it gaps. The most common thing is that if you fit it to yourself, it almost forms a seal... and people get hot or wet or can't breathe or can't speak clearly so they break the seal and leave it open... which means it does no good but you THINK it is, so maybe you aren't as careful? Even as simple as stretching your mouth every few minutes to 'get some air', as well as some virus.... or moving it to scratch your nose... with your unprotected and unwashed hand... but you know, you're okay because you're wearing a mask.

healthcare workers, the elderly or compromised, first responders should use them. Everyone else... whatever....

So kind of like those altitude training masks that people were rocking 4-5 years ago.
04-02-2020 04:29 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
(04-02-2020 04:29 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  So kind of like those altitude training masks that people were rocking 4-5 years ago.
exactly like them.... those are an 'enhanced' N95.... not familiar with their designation but may be a p100 or something

the numbers have to do with the type and size of particulate that they filter (or allow)
04-02-2020 04:58 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #25
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
We have to understand that the Japanese are extremely obedient to leadership and is seen as a part of national pride...unlike here defiance to leadership is seen as part of national pride.
04-02-2020 05:03 PM
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natibeast21 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
(04-02-2020 04:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 04:19 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 04:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 03:31 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  I was agreeing with your post. I'm questioning why we heard for weeks that mask were useless for all of us in the general public. They made it sound like there were zero benefits to mask.
Because they must be applied correctly, worn consistently, handled appropriately and fit to you to be effective. Healthcare workers are trained to do so and monitor each other... 'people' are not.

11blades and 5-0 are also very beneficial, but we don't want the general public using them either.

Is it really that hard to apply correctly? The directions I've read online seem pretty basic (like before elementary basic). I get most probably wouldn't handle them appropriately over an extended period of time.

I'm with Japan might as well use them even if "some" may not follow instructions correctly.

No they aren't... but you'd be amazed. I've seen absolutely ridiculous things.

The biggest problem is that because they don't let much moisture through (hence they are somewhat effective) you don't breathe as well through them and you sweat under them. It's more of a 'we know you won't wear this correctly and often enough for it to matter'... and of course, that likely nobody is looking out for you if it gaps. The most common thing is that if you fit it to yourself, it almost forms a seal... and people get hot or wet or can't breathe or can't speak clearly so they break the seal and leave it open... which means it does no good but you THINK it is, so maybe you aren't as careful? Even as simple as stretching your mouth every few minutes to 'get some air', as well as some virus.... or moving it to scratch your nose... with your unprotected and unwashed hand... but you know, you're okay because you're wearing a mask.

healthcare workers, the elderly or compromised, first responders should use them. Everyone else... whatever....

So, still questioning why they wouldn’t have just came out with they are effective if worn properly, but we don’t trust the general public as most likely won’t wear them properly and think they are safe from the public as well as safe from infecting others? More people are likely not going to follow the social distancing guidelines plus there is a need for the medical field to have this access to this equipment first.

Considering this nation has trained hundreds of thousands of people in very little time to learn much more complicated war equipment including medical devices and procedures all while risking their lives without agreeing to, that reasoning does not justify the CDC and General Surgeons message whatsoever IMO.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2020 05:12 PM by natibeast21.)
04-02-2020 05:05 PM
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Fort Bend Owl Offline
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Post: #27
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
Mask not what your country can do for you. Mask what you can do for your country.
04-02-2020 05:06 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
(04-02-2020 05:03 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  We have to understand that the Japanese are extremely obedient to leadership and is seen as a part of national pride...unlike here defiance to leadership is seen as part of national pride.

absolutely

I'm more interested in peer pressure or even 'star bellied sneech' approach towards wearing of masks etc.
04-02-2020 05:10 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
(04-02-2020 05:05 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  So, still questioning why they wouldn’t have just came out with they are effective if worn properly, but we don’t trust the general public as you most likely won’t wear them properly and think you are safe from the public as well as yourself from infecting others? More people are likely not able to follow the social distancing guidelines plus there is a need in for the medical field to have this equipment first.

Considering this nation has trained hundreds of thousands of people in very little time to learn much more complicated war equipment including medical devices and procedures all while risking their lives without agreeing to, that reasoning does not justify the CDC and General Surgeons message whatsoever IMO.

For the same reason you treat someone with flu symptoms but a negative test as if they have the flu.... or why a false negative is so much worse than a false positive in a pandemic. First do no harm.

People who think they are protected because they have a mask tend to do stupid things because they think they're 'safe'. I watch people all the time wearing gloves, and rubbing their eyes with the gloves. They'd be vastly safer with a cone around their face and no gloves
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2020 05:15 PM by Hambone10.)
04-02-2020 05:13 PM
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Fort Bend Owl Offline
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Post: #30
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
I'm guilty of rubbing my face with my gloves. But you can't rub your face when wearing a mask. You also can't drink water or grab a quick snack - which annoys me. But I'm still wearing a mask and gloves from here on when I'm outdoors until we get the all clear.
04-02-2020 05:21 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #31
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
Y'all try these

[Image: mIfOYvB.jpg]
04-02-2020 05:54 PM
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natibeast21 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
Last I'll post here cause I am by no means a medical professional. I also have not been leaving the house aside from food and running, but since I am skeptical maybe even critical of the [1) The Who 2) The U.S. Surgeon General and 3) CDC]'s original message, here is an article that was updated within the last two hours:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/02/make-you...n-how.html

During the early days of the coronavirus pandemic, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and World Health Organization made it clear that, unless you’re sick or are a medical professional, you do not need to wear a face mask.

On February 29th, U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams tweeted: “Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!”

Adams’ message comes with good intentions. With COVID-19 cases soaring, doctors, nurses and other frontline health-care workers confront a severe shortage of masks — and cautioning people against buying them can help offset the problem.

But other countries have already taken aggressive measures to prevent the spread of COVID-19 by telling citizens to wear masks, even if the masks are homemade.

Last week, George Gao, director-general of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, told ScienceMag.com that the “big mistake in the U.S.” is that people aren’t wearing masks. “This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role,” he said. You’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth.”

Gao has done significant research on viruses that have fragile lipid membranes called envelopes — a group that includes SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) — and how they enter cells and move between species.

“Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections,” he continued. “If they’re wearing face masks, it can [help] prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.”

‘People should be contemplating wearing masks’
In recent days, it appears that U.S. authorities are realizing they should have encouraged mask-wearing during the early stages of the outbreak.

Scott Gottlieb, former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner, said on Sunday in an interview with CBS News’ “Face the Nation” that “people should be contemplating wearing masks. We should be putting out guidelines from the CDC on how you can develop a [cotton] mask on your own.”

And on Wednesday, Adams told NBC’s “TODAY” show that he has asked the CDC to investigate whether his earlier recommendation should change. (Current CDC guidance is that healthy people don’t need masks or face coverings.)

While homemade masks aren’t as effective as medical-grade masks (like N95 respirators, which filter out at least 95% of airborne particles), researchers studying respiratory illnesses — including SARS, which is another form of coronavirus — have found that a simple mask can help lower the risk of infection.

It’s important to note that wearing a homemade mask alone will not guarantee protection against COVID-19. But its effectiveness is better when combined with basic safety precautions, such as regular hand-washing and social distancing.



Note: The full article is not posted. The rest of the article goes into how to make a face mask and something about how it shows we are all in this together.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2020 06:26 PM by natibeast21.)
04-02-2020 06:21 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
(04-02-2020 04:20 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  No, I'm just wanting to know that if we import something from another culture that we don't lose something fundamental in our own. Because I can be just as flippant as your bolded response

My apologies as my response wasn't intended to be flippant... I was merely trying to relate it to restrooms since that is 'where we were'. There haven't been many advancements in restroom technology

I don't see that having dirty toilets or poor flu hygiene practices as parts of our culture that we should hang on to.... The most problematic cultural change I can think of would be buffets... but again, I don't see that 'being served' vs 'serving yourself' is a culture killer. Maybe that's just me. If people want them, they will continue.

I'm not remotely talking about 'laws'.

(04-02-2020 05:21 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I'm guilty of rubbing my face with my gloves. But you can't rub your face when wearing a mask. You also can't drink water or grab a quick snack - which annoys me. But I'm still wearing a mask and gloves from here on when I'm outdoors until we get the all clear.

People usually just slide the mask... which defeats the purpose

but a bandana would be just as effective, which is why the focus on 'something' as opposed to N95

Smart on your part. iirc, you're 'seasoned'. Probably don't need to have it working in the yard, but if people approach....
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2020 11:09 AM by Hambone10.)
04-03-2020 11:05 AM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #34
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
They just need to issue pacifiers.
04-03-2020 11:13 AM
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UofMstateU Offline
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Post: #35
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
Wearing a mask will do little to prevent you from getting Coronoavirus, especially if you arent also wearing eyewear and if you constantly touch your face to adjust your mask. If worn correctly with no side gaps in the mask, it will help slightly. It can probably cause people to get infected more easily if they believe a mask is preventing them from getting the virus and they fail to do the other more important precautions, such as washing their hands and keeping their hands away from their face. Its a small deterrent to the virus getting to you, but thats it.

What a mask WILL do is to prevent the spread through the air from a person with no symptoms to someone else. That would have come in handy, as its clear now that this isnt a "killer disease" where everyone gets deathly ill from it. Most people show little symptoms. SO having everyone where a mask would have helped control the spread FROM the infected person who didnt even know they were infected.
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2020 11:25 AM by UofMstateU.)
04-03-2020 11:21 AM
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Post: #36
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
(04-02-2020 01:20 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  What about all those American doctors and scientist all over MSM that said the mask were useless in the last 3-8 weeks. Only useful for doctors so they don't infect their patients.

Fake News?

Not necessarily. Now that I think about it is seems to be semantics. A regular mask is to prevent a person that is already sick from passing COVID, it won't prevent you from catching it as the virus can pass through the mask. I guess it's now become, well let's do it even though it isn't the perfect answer, it's better than doing nothing.
04-03-2020 11:37 AM
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Post: #37
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
also as I've said... it is natural for people to stay more distant from others wearing masks
04-03-2020 11:46 AM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #38
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
(04-03-2020 11:46 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  also as I've said... it is natural for people to stay more distant from others wearing masks

What's kind of ironic, IMO, is that I've witnessed people wearing mask actually touching their faces more because of the mask. Kind of defeats the purpose. Let's not talk about gloves. Same applies with people wearing gloves and eating chips/touching face. I guess the two may give a false sense of safety.
04-03-2020 11:54 AM
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Post: #39
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
(04-02-2020 01:32 PM)green Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 01:20 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  What about all those American doctors and scientist all over MSM that said the mask were useless in the last 3-8 weeks. Only useful for doctors so they don't infect their patients.

Fake News?



https://twitter.com/wgw1123/status/1245777250546520064

I PROTECT YOU FROM ME

a statement on my part..not directed at you.

Let me see if I have this correct...

1. 50% will not show symptoms
2. The virus hangs in the air for a long time

So with #1 that means if left unchecked 50% of the case will have zero affect on people.

With #2, how does standing 6 ft apart help? You might keep 6 ft from every person you meet but you are also walking through the space they just left. So you are breathing in the air and the virus.

Social distancing, my ass, just as I believed from the start...you walk through a store or a space at work, you are breathing in the air from everyone that walked through that space in the last 180 minutes. A helluva lot more than the government wants to limit in groups.

Yet we have nazi's on this board that's probably calling into the hotlines to report people, not following government rules.
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2020 12:22 PM by WKUYG.)
04-03-2020 12:21 PM
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Post: #40
RE: I’m Turning Japanese
(04-02-2020 04:07 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 03:51 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Can they become better? Sure , but the sinks never turn on or off in a timely matter.

mostly because we don't demand that they do.

Quote:The pay toilet obstacle is people choosing not to use it and simply going wherever they feel like instead.
Cleaning isn't an issue if the facilities were all stainless steel. Then you could just pressure wash them like heads in the Navy.

Part of the needed cultural change... as a health issue, I'd make that a crime with a hefty fine. be responsible for your bodily fluids. Pay toilets was just an example/option... have a free public one cleaned once a day and a pay version cleaned automatically after each use. Redesign toilets so there is little or nothing to touch or spread fluids on to... or sure, pressure wash them... that was the thought on the pay toilets. As I undersand it, there are some in Japan that basically spin a wheel... you use the front half and the back half is being cleaned... when you leave, it spins around and the next person has a clean 'seat'.

I'm not proposing a single solution... that's for engineers...

but all you seem to be doing is saying 'none of that can be done'

If that's what you believe then fine... I'm sure some people thought having running toilets INSIDE your home was a crazy idea at one point.

Why dont you just ask your government to give you a list of everything they think you can and cannot do? Maybe they can tell you how to wipe your ass, the correct way. How many sheets of paper you can use without being fined.

I've never seen a person so hellbent on having their government defined every day living. Like you seem to be OK with. Is that just something you grown use to from making a career out of the government?

We have enough rules and laws without dictating how we shiit
04-03-2020 12:33 PM
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