(04-03-2020 09:26 AM)Tigerx3 Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 06:14 AM)ImaTiger Wrote:  I think the curious case of Mr. Wiseman is a great life study. I can't say I know the answers for others. But; in my judgement, he should have stayed out of loyalty to the guys who came to be with him. I would have. I agree he will make a lot of money. I wish him well and will call him a tiger (albeit a 3 game tiger).

...know when to hold'em, when to fold'em, when to walk away and when to run.... Seems there is sage advice in there somewhere that applies here. I think it goes without saying that to be successful they have to do all of those at some point; or you lose the ability to do any of them effectively. If Mr. Wiseman can hold'em, good, but he didn't show that as a Tiger.

It’s easy to say what we think we would have done but reality is often different. James just turned 19. He has lived in the national spotlight for the past three years. Suddenly he was thrust into a situation of adversity that he didn’t create and he could not control. People he didn’t know and had never seen suddenly had control of his life and his passion. They took basketball away from him. He was thrust into a public legal battle. They retaliated when he showed a sign of resistance. And it started looking more and more like just sitting out 12 games would not end the invasion into his life.

Maybe leaving and taking the money now was the easy way out. Maybe for him he reached a point where he thought it was the only way out. The NCAA system of inequity for certain claimed another individual victim in James and the University of Memphis.

I wish James well. I regret his life was disrupted in such a convoluted way by thread in history that precluded any knowledge he had of the Univ of Memphis. Let him go on with his life in best way he knows how. He had shown the world to be a smart, talented, genuine and humble young man before his struggle and I think he has not changed that much since.

James is a fine young man who should enjoy a long, lucrative career in the NBA.

This past season didn't go the way anyone could've foreseen, and then capped off with a global pandemic that made all of the craziness a moot point.

Whether JW had come back in January or not, we can never know how the season would've ended for any program.

Godspeed to JW in all of his future endeavors...a rising tide can only lift all boats.

(04-03-2020 10:24 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 09:44 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 09:34 AM)tigergeorge55 Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:12 PM)gusrob Wrote:  In a vacuum, why wouldn't Golden State want a 7' kid who can spread the floor, a la work well in their offense and provide a rim protector?

May be something to the idea that JW is labelled a quitter and his motivation is questioned. However, do not base this (or other feelings) based on what front offices say and do leading up to the draft. No GM wants everyone knowing their thoughts going into draft. If they can get their guy later, they will. They do not want to create buzz around their targets.

James I say Godspeed. Your decision was your own. You don't owe anyone anything. If you had played you would not have played in the NCAA finals and they can't use your likeness on NCAA 2K20 for making money. It servers the NCAA right for pulling the high school prank on you and Penny. Many young men will not play college basketball.
They forced you into this. Give it up guys I blame the NCAA.

Good Luck James

This is absolutely not true. Other kids made decisions based on his decision and then his very active recruitment of them to join him. He had a coaching staff build an entire roster around him based on his decision to come to Memphis. Fans bought tickets to see him play. This is like a coach taking credit when the team wins and then blaming the players when his team loses. You get the good and while being insulated from the bad, welcome to adulthood.

His decision to come to Memphis and then subsequently leave Memphis did not happen in a vacuum. Part of growing up is realizing that your decisions impact others whether you like that or not and when you make decisions that impact others you absolutely have a responsibility toward them at that point.

People want to make this situation so simple...

There are a ton of things that could have happened that caused Wiseman to no longer want to be in Memphis.

One scenario is:

He lost trust in Penny. I am sure Penny told his Mom that accepting the money wouldn't cause any issues with his eligibility then that turned out to be 100% wrong. Then Penny likely advised him to go to court to challenge the ruling which also didn't turn out like Penny likely told him it would. This is pure speculation but I could see this being an issue if I was in the situation.

That does not change anything about him "owing nobody anything".

And I have doubt that Penny told Wiseman and his Mom that the money would not be an issue. I mean after all, the NCAA told that to all of them...

(04-03-2020 01:53 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:24 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 09:44 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 09:34 AM)tigergeorge55 Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:12 PM)gusrob Wrote:  In a vacuum, why wouldn't Golden State want a 7' kid who can spread the floor, a la work well in their offense and provide a rim protector?

May be something to the idea that JW is labelled a quitter and his motivation is questioned. However, do not base this (or other feelings) based on what front offices say and do leading up to the draft. No GM wants everyone knowing their thoughts going into draft. If they can get their guy later, they will. They do not want to create buzz around their targets.

James I say Godspeed. Your decision was your own. You don't owe anyone anything. If you had played you would not have played in the NCAA finals and they can't use your likeness on NCAA 2K20 for making money. It servers the NCAA right for pulling the high school prank on you and Penny. Many young men will not play college basketball.
They forced you into this. Give it up guys I blame the NCAA.

Good Luck James

This is absolutely not true. Other kids made decisions based on his decision and then his very active recruitment of them to join him. He had a coaching staff build an entire roster around him based on his decision to come to Memphis. Fans bought tickets to see him play. This is like a coach taking credit when the team wins and then blaming the players when his team loses. You get the good and while being insulated from the bad, welcome to adulthood.

His decision to come to Memphis and then subsequently leave Memphis did not happen in a vacuum. Part of growing up is realizing that your decisions impact others whether you like that or not and when you make decisions that impact others you absolutely have a responsibility toward them at that point.

People want to make this situation so simple...

There are a ton of things that could have happened that caused Wiseman to no longer want to be in Memphis.

One scenario is:

He lost trust in Penny. I am sure Penny told his Mom that accepting the money wouldn't cause any issues with his eligibility then that turned out to be 100% wrong. Then Penny likely advised him to go to court to challenge the ruling which also didn't turn out like Penny likely told him it would. This is pure speculation but I could see this being an issue if I was in the situation.

That does not change anything about him "owing nobody anything".

And I have doubt that Penny told Wiseman and his Mom that the money would not be an issue. I mean after all, the NCAA told that to all of them...

I dont know for sure, but I am pretty sure that Penny did not contact the NCAA and ask them if it would be ok for him to provide 11.5k to a player to relocate to play for his AAU and High School team.

If you provide a link, I would certainly accept it though.

(04-03-2020 10:24 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 09:44 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 09:34 AM)tigergeorge55 Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:12 PM)gusrob Wrote:  In a vacuum, why wouldn't Golden State want a 7' kid who can spread the floor, a la work well in their offense and provide a rim protector?

May be something to the idea that JW is labelled a quitter and his motivation is questioned. However, do not base this (or other feelings) based on what front offices say and do leading up to the draft. No GM wants everyone knowing their thoughts going into draft. If they can get their guy later, they will. They do not want to create buzz around their targets.

James I say Godspeed. Your decision was your own. You don't owe anyone anything. If you had played you would not have played in the NCAA finals and they can't use your likeness on NCAA 2K20 for making money. It servers the NCAA right for pulling the high school prank on you and Penny. Many young men will not play college basketball.
They forced you into this. Give it up guys I blame the NCAA.

Good Luck James

This is absolutely not true. Other kids made decisions based on his decision and then his very active recruitment of them to join him. He had a coaching staff build an entire roster around him based on his decision to come to Memphis. Fans bought tickets to see him play. This is like a coach taking credit when the team wins and then blaming the players when his team loses. You get the good and while being insulated from the bad, welcome to adulthood.

His decision to come to Memphis and then subsequently leave Memphis did not happen in a vacuum. Part of growing up is realizing that your decisions impact others whether you like that or not and when you make decisions that impact others you absolutely have a responsibility toward them at that point.

People want to make this situation so simple...

There are a ton of things that could have happened that caused Wiseman to no longer want to be in Memphis.

One scenario is:

He lost trust in Penny. I am sure Penny told his Mom that accepting the money wouldn't cause any issues with his eligibility then that turned out to be 100% wrong. Then Penny likely advised him to go to court to challenge the ruling which also didn't turn out like Penny likely told him it would. This is pure speculation but I could see this being an issue if I was in the situation.

That's a lot of speculation. Think closer to home.

(04-03-2020 02:17 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 01:53 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:24 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 09:44 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 09:34 AM)tigergeorge55 Wrote:  James I say Godspeed. Your decision was your own. You don't owe anyone anything. If you had played you would not have played in the NCAA finals and they can't use your likeness on NCAA 2K20 for making money. It servers the NCAA right for pulling the high school prank on you and Penny. Many young men will not play college basketball.
They forced you into this. Give it up guys I blame the NCAA.

Good Luck James

This is absolutely not true. Other kids made decisions based on his decision and then his very active recruitment of them to join him. He had a coaching staff build an entire roster around him based on his decision to come to Memphis. Fans bought tickets to see him play. This is like a coach taking credit when the team wins and then blaming the players when his team loses. You get the good and while being insulated from the bad, welcome to adulthood.

His decision to come to Memphis and then subsequently leave Memphis did not happen in a vacuum. Part of growing up is realizing that your decisions impact others whether you like that or not and when you make decisions that impact others you absolutely have a responsibility toward them at that point.

People want to make this situation so simple...

There are a ton of things that could have happened that caused Wiseman to no longer want to be in Memphis.

One scenario is:

He lost trust in Penny. I am sure Penny told his Mom that accepting the money wouldn't cause any issues with his eligibility then that turned out to be 100% wrong. Then Penny likely advised him to go to court to challenge the ruling which also didn't turn out like Penny likely told him it would. This is pure speculation but I could see this being an issue if I was in the situation.

That does not change anything about him "owing nobody anything".

And I have doubt that Penny told Wiseman and his Mom that the money would not be an issue. I mean after all, the NCAA told that to all of them...

I dont know for sure, but I am pretty sure that Penny did not contact the NCAA and ask them if it would be ok for him to provide 11.5k to a player to relocate to play for his AAU and High School team.

If you provide a link, I would certainly accept it though.

I was clearly referencing when they brought this to the NCAA's attention after Wiseman committed to Memphis...

(04-03-2020 04:11 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 02:17 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 01:53 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:24 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 09:44 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  This is absolutely not true. Other kids made decisions based on his decision and then his very active recruitment of them to join him. He had a coaching staff build an entire roster around him based on his decision to come to Memphis. Fans bought tickets to see him play. This is like a coach taking credit when the team wins and then blaming the players when his team loses. You get the good and while being insulated from the bad, welcome to adulthood.

His decision to come to Memphis and then subsequently leave Memphis did not happen in a vacuum. Part of growing up is realizing that your decisions impact others whether you like that or not and when you make decisions that impact others you absolutely have a responsibility toward them at that point.

People want to make this situation so simple...

There are a ton of things that could have happened that caused Wiseman to no longer want to be in Memphis.

One scenario is:

He lost trust in Penny. I am sure Penny told his Mom that accepting the money wouldn't cause any issues with his eligibility then that turned out to be 100% wrong. Then Penny likely advised him to go to court to challenge the ruling which also didn't turn out like Penny likely told him it would. This is pure speculation but I could see this being an issue if I was in the situation.

That does not change anything about him "owing nobody anything".

And I have doubt that Penny told Wiseman and his Mom that the money would not be an issue. I mean after all, the NCAA told that to all of them...

I dont know for sure, but I am pretty sure that Penny did not contact the NCAA and ask them if it would be ok for him to provide 11.5k to a player to relocate to play for his AAU and High School team.

If you provide a link, I would certainly accept it though.

I was clearly referencing when they brought this to the NCAA's attention after Wiseman committed to Memphis...

Oh ok, I thought you were saying when Penny was trying to buy them that he told them it would be ok for them to accept the money. After that it would be too late to tell them.

(04-03-2020 09:44 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 09:34 AM)tigergeorge55 Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:12 PM)gusrob Wrote:  In a vacuum, why wouldn't Golden State want a 7' kid who can spread the floor, a la work well in their offense and provide a rim protector?

May be something to the idea that JW is labelled a quitter and his motivation is questioned. However, do not base this (or other feelings) based on what front offices say and do leading up to the draft. No GM wants everyone knowing their thoughts going into draft. If they can get their guy later, they will. They do not want to create buzz around their targets.

James I say Godspeed. Your decision was your own. You don't owe anyone anything. If you had played you would not have played in the NCAA finals and they can't use your likeness on NCAA 2K20 for making money. It servers the NCAA right for pulling the high school prank on you and Penny. Many young men will not play college basketball.
They forced you into this. Give it up guys I blame the NCAA.

Good Luck James

This is absolutely not true. Other kids made decisions based on his decision and then his very active recruitment of them to join him. He had a coaching staff build an entire roster around him based on his decision to come to Memphis. Fans bought tickets to see him play. This is like a coach taking credit when the team wins and then blaming the players when his team loses. You get the good and while being insulated from the bad, welcome to adulthood.

His decision to come to Memphis and then subsequently leave Memphis did not happen in a vacuum. Part of growing up is realizing that your decisions impact others whether you like that or not and when you make decisions that impact others you absolutely have a responsibility toward them at that point.

(04-03-2020 04:13 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 04:11 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 02:17 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 01:53 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:24 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  People want to make this situation so simple...

There are a ton of things that could have happened that caused Wiseman to no longer want to be in Memphis.

One scenario is:

He lost trust in Penny. I am sure Penny told his Mom that accepting the money wouldn't cause any issues with his eligibility then that turned out to be 100% wrong. Then Penny likely advised him to go to court to challenge the ruling which also didn't turn out like Penny likely told him it would. This is pure speculation but I could see this being an issue if I was in the situation.

That does not change anything about him "owing nobody anything".

And I have doubt that Penny told Wiseman and his Mom that the money would not be an issue. I mean after all, the NCAA told that to all of them...

I dont know for sure, but I am pretty sure that Penny did not contact the NCAA and ask them if it would be ok for him to provide 11.5k to a player to relocate to play for his AAU and High School team.

If you provide a link, I would certainly accept it though.

I was clearly referencing when they brought this to the NCAA's attention after Wiseman committed to Memphis...

Oh ok, I thought you were saying when Penny was trying to buy them that he told them it would be ok for them to accept the money. After that it would be too late to tell them.

Absolutely!

Quitting didn’t do him any favors.

(04-03-2020 07:58 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Quitting didn’t do him any favors.

I agree...it really prevented the scouts from seeing how he would've stacked up against high major competition.

(04-04-2020 10:19 AM)GermantownTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 07:58 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Quitting didn’t do him any favors.

I agree...it really prevented the scouts from seeing how he would've stacked up against high major competition.

It also brought up some questions about his mental toughness and a few character issues.

Pro basketball is a grind... and if you’re a high lottery pick, it will most likely be on a losing squad. Quitting on your college coach and abandoning your teammates who followed you to the school is not a great 1st impression. Winning is hard, quitting is easy.

Word on the street
The Wizards really want this Dude followed by Charlotte

Penny handled this all wrong from the get go. He should not have gambled with this man's future. He should have not have gambled with the Tigers compliance. He did and he lost. Hopefully the damage is done and he's learned from his mistake. I don't blame James at all.

(04-04-2020 03:56 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Pro basketball is a grind... and if you’re a high lottery pick, it will most likely be on a losing squad. Quitting on your college coach and abandoning your teammates who followed you to the school is not a great 1st impression. Winning is hard, quitting is easy.

And opinions are free.

(04-04-2020 02:32 PM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 10:19 AM)GermantownTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 07:58 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Quitting didn’t do him any favors.

I agree...it really prevented the scouts from seeing how he would've stacked up against high major competition.

It also brought up some questions about his mental toughness and a few character issues.

Bull.

(04-02-2020 01:43 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:12 PM)mairving Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 12:44 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  Well, he quit his high school team. He quit his AAU team. He quit his college team.

The big knock on Wiseman all along was his heart and motivation.

Kind of hard to want to lock yourself into a player who is a known and proven quitter.

He quit his high school team after graduation, what a quitter. He quit Memphis because he didn't want to pay $11,500 to the NCAA.

He quit because he did not want to sit, it was not over $11,500 that would go to a charity and not the NCAA... Dude is about to be worth tens of millions of dollars.

Problem was the NCAA wouldn't allow him to IOU it.

(04-06-2020 05:28 AM)kabluey Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:43 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:12 PM)mairving Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 12:44 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  Well, he quit his high school team. He quit his AAU team. He quit his college team.

The big knock on Wiseman all along was his heart and motivation.

Kind of hard to want to lock yourself into a player who is a known and proven quitter.

He quit his high school team after graduation, what a quitter. He quit Memphis because he didn't want to pay $11,500 to the NCAA.

He quit because he did not want to sit, it was not over $11,500 that would go to a charity and not the NCAA... Dude is about to be worth tens of millions of dollars.

Problem was the NCAA wouldn't allow him to IOU it.

They gave him 4 years to pay it back.

What it boils down to is James and/or his family could not resist the money that was being waived under their nose.

(04-05-2020 07:48 PM)Crowleys Ridge Tiger Wrote:  Penny handled this all wrong from the get go. He should not have gambled with this man's future. He should have not have gambled with the Tigers compliance. He did and he lost. Hopefully the damage is done and he's learned from his mistake. I don't blame James at all.

Handled it wrong...Not gambled with his future...psssh
You think James's mom is the first family member to accept a benefit like moving expenses?
If Penny handled it wrong, it was from being too transparent.
But James's "future" was right there for him. About 4 more suspended games away when he quit the team.

(04-06-2020 04:46 AM)Tigerx3 Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 02:32 PM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  

(04-04-2020 10:19 AM)GermantownTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 07:58 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Quitting didn’t do him any favors.

I agree...it really prevented the scouts from seeing how he would've stacked up against high major competition.

It also brought up some questions about his mental toughness and a few character issues.

Bull.

Pretty much every NBA analyst out there has said that James quitting has brought back the questions about how much he loves the game. And that he will have to have a good answer for why he quit when he starts doing the interviews. The answer he gave on the sanitized ESPN interview last month will not be enough.

(04-03-2020 12:07 PM)former guest Wrote:  

(04-03-2020 10:43 AM)Hoots Wrote:  I've said all along players play. I don't believe he helped himself at all by leaving to "prepare for the NBA draft." The time he could've had on the floor would've been the best way to prepare. There is always a risk of injury. At some point, however, you have to perform. And what better way to do that than by competing.

I don't wish him any bad luck, but I believe he's going to be in for a rude awakening when he goes from the gym to having Draymond, Embiid, Anthony Davis, etc. in his face.

You have stated my thoughts better than I have been able to. Thanks!