Never said it was easy. Just said that a business that's described by jmu98 running on "razor thin margins" that can't weather 3 months can't reasonably be called a 'good' business.

I feel for small business owners. This pandemic sucks. Objecting to jmu98's characterization doesn't somehow inherently make me unsympathetic. But at the same time we should be pragmatic about looking at bankruptcies from JC Penny and Pier 1, and Airbnb arbitrage, and the weakest echelon of small businesses and see the houses of cards for what they were.

plenty of good businesses out there that figured on having income... then the income flow got reduced or stopped but the bills keep coming in. Just because a business isn't profiting in a pandemic [unprecedented scenario] doesn't mean it's not a 'good' business.

Been neat to see industries pivot during this... like when producing hand sanitizer instead of spirits, etc. Keeps employees busy... keeps income flowing...

(05-28-2020 11:20 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  Never said it was easy. Just said that a business that's described by jmu98 running on "razor thin margins" that can't weather 3 months can't reasonably be called a 'good' business.

I feel for small business owners. This pandemic sucks. Objecting to jmu98's characterization doesn't somehow inherently make me unsympathetic. But at the same time we should be pragmatic about looking at bankruptcies from JC Penny and Pier 1, and Airbnb arbitrage, and the weakest echelon of small businesses and see the houses of cards for what they were.

Saying it's so, doesn't make it so. In the words of Ronald Reagan, "it's not that Democrats are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so.."

There's a Tavern owner here in town that has obviously been hurt by the recent events. To hear him speak though, you'd think he'd been in biz 25 years and only getting by on a razor thin margin. That his future will be living in squalor. No mention of the 8000 sq ft home he owns in town and the beautiful beach house, the 5 family cars & 2 collector cars, the 35 ft. boat, the private plane, the multiple extravagant vacations. Perhaps a few dollars should have been squirreled away.

(05-28-2020 11:20 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  Never said it was easy. Just said that a business that's described by jmu98 running on "razor thin margins" that can't weather 3 months can't reasonably be called a 'good' business.

I feel for small business owners. This pandemic sucks. Objecting to jmu98's characterization doesn't somehow inherently make me unsympathetic. But at the same time we should be pragmatic about looking at bankruptcies from JC Penny and Pier 1, and Airbnb arbitrage, and the weakest echelon of small businesses and see the houses of cards for what they were.

You just don't understand business if you think it is only weak ones that have thin margins and low cash reserves. But you like to talk about it as though you do, so much so that you remind me of the professor of business in the Rodney Dangerfield movie, Back To School.

Since you have little to no clue I will spell it out for you, many industries, including the entire restaurant business operate on razor thin margins. For restaurants, be it a coffee shop, a high volume place like Old Ebbitt Grill which does $48M in revenue per year or a high end place with 3-Michelin stars like Eleven Madison Park (which by the way may not survive the shut down) the margins in the restaurant business aren't the greatest.

Here is a real world case study for you: Fado Irish Pub in Chinatown DC. It has been there for over 30 years, and due to its location and proximity to the CapitalOne Arena does booming business every night that there is a Caps or Wizards home game or other similar event, and also being in one of the more touristy areas of the city has a lot of walk up traffic anyways. They are about as close as you get in the restaurant business to a place that just prints money. I'd call that place a very successful business. It gave their owners a comfortable lifestyle and employed many people for a long time.

Fast forward to March 2020 and the city goes on lockdown right before St. Patrick's day so basically their Black Friday/Superbowl event for the year isn't happening and Caps/Wizards were in full steam and it all ends so they are out big time money every day. Early this month Fado joins a list of many other restaurants in the city to announce that they won't be coming back when the lockdown ends. The rent never decreased, they had other bills to pay...IOW they couldn't afford to lose the income. Game over!

This is reality. It isn't just some theoretical 'widget' and our businesses aren't in la-la land where everyone has great profit margins and cash reserves.

(05-28-2020 08:51 AM)jmu98 Wrote:  

(05-27-2020 11:43 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 02:56 PM)jmu98 Wrote:  I think part of the issue is that the people who can self distance and work from home or at least work and get a paycheck are the group that says lets all stay at home as it is the safest thing to do. People who own a small business or have not gotten a paycheck in two months look at this very differently. I personally know people who have small businesses that were extremely successful that will be good and gone soon if something does not change. One is a business that has been around for 30+ years and was very successful. It will most likely make it through because he has the resources to cover costs for a good while, but not for ever.

I don't believe any "extremely successful" or "30+ year....very successful" business is going under cause they couldn't open their doors for 3-4 months. Every financial advisor out there will tell you to carry 6+ months of expenses in an emergency fund and this is the case for businesses too, and especially feasible for those that are "extremely" or "very" successful. I'll admit I'm being nit picky but I think people are screaming that COVID is causing businesses to fail, but forgetting to mention these were likely bad businesses before COVID. COVID certainly isn't helping 99% of companies out there, but it seems to me that these people are blaming the woof for blowing over the house made of straw.

Honestly, this is more of a rant after all the facebook comments from people that act like they have doctorates in economics and screaming "OPEN SMALL BUSINESSES!" despite not being able to pass a basic business class, and less of a response to JMU98's actual post.

I noted that the particular business would most likely make it through because they have the resources, but it is a huge hit for them. He was able to get the PPP loan, but is actually paying his folks an extra 600 and a higher hourly wage (it is a restaurant) to cover the higher unemployment amount that they would receive. There are however many good businesses that run on razor thin margins where the company does not have the resources for this to last much longer especially considering that it's not like business goes totally back to normal on day one. The strongest businesses will survive and possibly thrive at some point due to less competition from other businesses that went out of business because of the shutdown. By the way most doctorates in economics couldn't run a small business to save their lives.

Apologies on the bolded parts. It appears that I can't read as I added a "NOT" into your first post.

(05-28-2020 01:29 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 11:20 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  Never said it was easy. Just said that a business that's described by jmu98 running on "razor thin margins" that can't weather 3 months can't reasonably be called a 'good' business.

I feel for small business owners. This pandemic sucks. Objecting to jmu98's characterization doesn't somehow inherently make me unsympathetic. But at the same time we should be pragmatic about looking at bankruptcies from JC Penny and Pier 1, and Airbnb arbitrage, and the weakest echelon of small businesses and see the houses of cards for what they were.

You just don't understand business if you think it is only weak ones that have thin margins and low cash reserves. But you like to talk about it as though you do, so much so that you remind me of the professor of business in the Rodney Dangerfield movie, Back To School.

Since you have little to no clue I will spell it out for you, many industries, including the entire restaurant business operate on razor thin margins. For restaurants, be it a coffee shop, a high volume place like Old Ebbitt Grill which does $48M in revenue per year or a high end place with 3-Michelin stars like Eleven Madison Park (which by the way may not survive the shut down) the margins in the restaurant business aren't the greatest.

Here is a real world case study for you: Fado Irish Pub in Chinatown DC. It has been there for over 30 years, and due to its location and proximity to the CapitalOne Arena does booming business every night that there is a Caps or Wizards home game or other similar event, and also being in one of the more touristy areas of the city has a lot of walk up traffic anyways. They are about as close as you get in the restaurant business to a place that just prints money. I'd call that place a very successful business. It gave their owners a comfortable lifestyle and employed many people for a long time.

Fast forward to March 2020 and the city goes on lockdown right before St. Patrick's day so basically their Black Friday/Superbowl event for the year isn't happening and Caps/Wizards were in full steam and it all ends so they are out big time money every day. Early this month Fado joins a list of many other restaurants in the city to announce that they won't be coming back when the lockdown ends. The rent never decreased, they had other bills to pay...IOW they couldn't afford to lose the income. Game over!

This is reality. It isn't just some theoretical 'widget' and our businesses aren't in la-la land where everyone has great profit margins and cash reserves.

There is money to be made in bankruptcy and I'll guess some of these "many" restaurant/owners know that and are using it to their advantage. There are numerous government programs/grants/loan to help mitigate current losses. I mean other restaurants are giving away free meals to healthcare workers, certainly they were hit hard too right? How is it possible to give away freebies in a time when others can't survive?

For full disclosure, I am a silent/minority owner in a NYC based restaurant with two other guys. We recently opened a second location.

(05-28-2020 11:20 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  Never said it was easy. Just said that a business that's described by jmu98 running on "razor thin margins" that can't weather 3 months can't reasonably be called a 'good' business.

I feel for small business owners. This pandemic sucks. Objecting to jmu98's characterization doesn't somehow inherently make me unsympathetic. But at the same time we should be pragmatic about looking at bankruptcies from JC Penny and Pier 1, and Airbnb arbitrage, and the weakest echelon of small businesses and see the houses of cards for what they were.

I listened/read a lot of podcasts/forums about Airbnb arbitrage and analyzed some real estate in vacation destinations. So glad I didn't go through with it. Unfortunately, those podcasts/forums also talked about small residential care facilities and the upside potential with them. I didn't really explore those but wish I had.

(05-28-2020 11:07 AM)AllForDukes Wrote:  Your opinions on how easy it is to weather a storm of no income but continuing expenses is your opinion. When most small businesses are LLC's and all profits are attributed to the owner(s) who are required to pay taxes on said profits be they cash or not, any time spend with no income yet continuing expenses puts those businesses at risk.

The magic six month time frame of expenses in the bank would already be depleted by 1/3. Times a wastin' when the gov't decision makers in this environment are receiving a paycheck.

With PPP and EIDL grants/loans, that shouldn't be the case. Firing folks to be able to claim the unemployment they had paid into would have also lowered expenses. It is fairly common that retail rents are tied to profits, so those should have decreased as well. Vast majority of businesses have line of credit agreements in place. Others have business interruption insurance (which some states are trying to force insurers hands to make COVID related payouts). Don't get me wrong, this time sucks for a lot of businesses and is obviously leading some to close their doors, but for people that throw their hands up and say "COVID caused a business to fail" are only potentially partially right.

(05-28-2020 01:41 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 01:29 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 11:20 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  Never said it was easy. Just said that a business that's described by jmu98 running on "razor thin margins" that can't weather 3 months can't reasonably be called a 'good' business.

I feel for small business owners. This pandemic sucks. Objecting to jmu98's characterization doesn't somehow inherently make me unsympathetic. But at the same time we should be pragmatic about looking at bankruptcies from JC Penny and Pier 1, and Airbnb arbitrage, and the weakest echelon of small businesses and see the houses of cards for what they were.

You just don't understand business if you think it is only weak ones that have thin margins and low cash reserves. But you like to talk about it as though you do, so much so that you remind me of the professor of business in the Rodney Dangerfield movie, Back To School.

Since you have little to no clue I will spell it out for you, many industries, including the entire restaurant business operate on razor thin margins. For restaurants, be it a coffee shop, a high volume place like Old Ebbitt Grill which does $48M in revenue per year or a high end place with 3-Michelin stars like Eleven Madison Park (which by the way may not survive the shut down) the margins in the restaurant business aren't the greatest.

Here is a real world case study for you: Fado Irish Pub in Chinatown DC. It has been there for over 30 years, and due to its location and proximity to the CapitalOne Arena does booming business every night that there is a Caps or Wizards home game or other similar event, and also being in one of the more touristy areas of the city has a lot of walk up traffic anyways. They are about as close as you get in the restaurant business to a place that just prints money. I'd call that place a very successful business. It gave their owners a comfortable lifestyle and employed many people for a long time.

Fast forward to March 2020 and the city goes on lockdown right before St. Patrick's day so basically their Black Friday/Superbowl event for the year isn't happening and Caps/Wizards were in full steam and it all ends so they are out big time money every day. Early this month Fado joins a list of many other restaurants in the city to announce that they won't be coming back when the lockdown ends. The rent never decreased, they had other bills to pay...IOW they couldn't afford to lose the income. Game over!

This is reality. It isn't just some theoretical 'widget' and our businesses aren't in la-la land where everyone has great profit margins and cash reserves.

You realize there is money to be made in bankruptcy right? I believe those owners might know that and are using it to their advantage as there are numerous government programs/grants/loan to help mitigate current losses. I mean other restaurants are giving away free meals to healthcare workers, certainly they were hit hard too right? How is it possible to give away freebies in a time when others can't survive? To find a questionable case study that supports your ideology doesn't mean much.

For full disclosure, I am a silent/minority owner in a NYC based restaurant that recently opened a second location.

Yes I do realize that, and congrats on opening a second location that is a huge accomplishment and if it goes well is one of the best mitigations for weathering events like this as there is safety in numbers. My point to that other guy is that it doesn't mean they weren't well run businesses because they can't survive this shutdown.

Imagine being such a great guy that not only advocates the destruction of businesses by supporting shutdowns, but then piles on by saying they weren't good in the first place.

(05-28-2020 02:11 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  Imagine being such a great guy that not only advocates the destruction of businesses by supporting shutdowns, but then piles on by saying they weren't good in the first place.

Is that to me? Cause I don't think I was piling on by pointing out that business was good enough that we could open a second location but timing was miserable as within half a year of opening our revenue is 30% of what we projected AND that we aren't in the position that we can voluntarily close the doors to wonder off to the next phase in life after having a 30+ year successful restaurant to fund retirement.

(05-28-2020 02:01 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 01:41 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 01:29 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 11:20 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  Never said it was easy. Just said that a business that's described by jmu98 running on "razor thin margins" that can't weather 3 months can't reasonably be called a 'good' business.

I feel for small business owners. This pandemic sucks. Objecting to jmu98's characterization doesn't somehow inherently make me unsympathetic. But at the same time we should be pragmatic about looking at bankruptcies from JC Penny and Pier 1, and Airbnb arbitrage, and the weakest echelon of small businesses and see the houses of cards for what they were.

You just don't understand business if you think it is only weak ones that have thin margins and low cash reserves. But you like to talk about it as though you do, so much so that you remind me of the professor of business in the Rodney Dangerfield movie, Back To School.

Since you have little to no clue I will spell it out for you, many industries, including the entire restaurant business operate on razor thin margins. For restaurants, be it a coffee shop, a high volume place like Old Ebbitt Grill which does $48M in revenue per year or a high end place with 3-Michelin stars like Eleven Madison Park (which by the way may not survive the shut down) the margins in the restaurant business aren't the greatest.

Here is a real world case study for you: Fado Irish Pub in Chinatown DC. It has been there for over 30 years, and due to its location and proximity to the CapitalOne Arena does booming business every night that there is a Caps or Wizards home game or other similar event, and also being in one of the more touristy areas of the city has a lot of walk up traffic anyways. They are about as close as you get in the restaurant business to a place that just prints money. I'd call that place a very successful business. It gave their owners a comfortable lifestyle and employed many people for a long time.

Fast forward to March 2020 and the city goes on lockdown right before St. Patrick's day so basically their Black Friday/Superbowl event for the year isn't happening and Caps/Wizards were in full steam and it all ends so they are out big time money every day. Early this month Fado joins a list of many other restaurants in the city to announce that they won't be coming back when the lockdown ends. The rent never decreased, they had other bills to pay...IOW they couldn't afford to lose the income. Game over!

This is reality. It isn't just some theoretical 'widget' and our businesses aren't in la-la land where everyone has great profit margins and cash reserves.

You realize there is money to be made in bankruptcy right? I believe those owners might know that and are using it to their advantage as there are numerous government programs/grants/loan to help mitigate current losses. I mean other restaurants are giving away free meals to healthcare workers, certainly they were hit hard too right? How is it possible to give away freebies in a time when others can't survive? To find a questionable case study that supports your ideology doesn't mean much.

For full disclosure, I am a silent/minority owner in a NYC based restaurant that recently opened a second location.

Yes I do realize that, and congrats on opening a second location that is a huge accomplishment and if it goes well is one of the best mitigations for weathering events like this as there is safety in numbers. My point to that other guy is that it doesn't mean they weren't well run businesses because they can't survive this shutdown.

My point was that the owners of Fado Irish pub, as a result of successfully running a restaurant for 30+ years, are in a position that they can just "quit" to save the wealth that they have built. They were most likely fully able to survive but to do so would have temporary deteriorated a portion of their wealth and they didn't want to do that. They (and it appears the tavern owner that oldddawg mentioned) are lucky that they could make that choice, me and my two buddies don't have that luxury.

(05-28-2020 09:49 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-27-2020 05:15 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(05-27-2020 12:34 PM)Dukester Wrote:  So Longhorn - what do you expect once classes are supposed to start in August for JMU. Talking just academics, not athletics?

What % do you give to live classes resuming on time?

What changes do you expect academically? Smaller class sizes, adding more classes based on smaller class sizes? etc.

a) Your speculation
b) Anything already discussed with the staff

All excellent questions, but I can only offer my guesses...I honestly can’t answer any of your questions with any sense of certainty.

JMU’s Senior Leadership is meeting almost constantly, and the planning process (at least on paper) is for a regular, on-time, on-campus opening for the Fall semester. Work on various contingencies for identifying and segregating students who show signs of the virus are in the works, as are ideas about how more online instruction can be supported. All this is still very fluid...online instruction is not what JMU is known for, and the unknowns make me extremely nervous. How the heck do you teach lab sciences online? How do you teach any discipline where “hands on” access to highly specialized equipment is fundamental to the learning process? The challenges are immense.

Good news. The number of incoming students who accepted their offer of admission, and who have paid their Fall reservation fees is high, and ahead of the numbers of past years. This is encouraging news, and projects well for the Fall enrollment to meet planned budget targets. That said, pre-paid reservations doesn’t mean the students will show up, and VT admissions is still up to no good impacting other state schools.

Every program (academic or otherwise) is presently on lockdown with respect to expenditures. It’s a real $$$ pinch, and how the hit from the last qtr. of this past FY impacts next year’s budget (starting July 1) is still up in the air.

I can say this: Class sizes are not likely to be smaller because the academic budget for hiring adjunct or part-time faculty has been zeroed out. It would be a good bet that class-sizes will actually increase, to the maximum the full-time faculty can support. There is going to be a belt-tightening all across the university, from previously planned construction projects, faculty and staff compensation, and other initiatives...they are all on hold.

Again, JMU is better positioned to weather this pandemic than almost any other institution I can think of, but like Bette Davis once said “Fasten your seat belts. It’s going to be a bumpy night.”

LH,

Thanks for your response. Highlighted above you indicated class sizes would likely increase. I was thinking for social distancing reasons classes would likely be smaller. I can't recall any situations were bigger groups were intended to be created due to Covid-19. I know the grade schools are working on ways to create distancing. Suggested student my go every other day to reduce class size. Stores are limiting #s. Restaurants (that are allowed to open) are at reduced capacity.

UVA echoed my thoughts....


“Assuming state and federal public health guidelines allow, we are planning to have students back on Grounds and to hold in-person classes this fall,” U-Va. President James E. Ryan wrote in an email co-signed with other officials. “We are still trying to determine how many students we can have safely back on Grounds and living in dorms, and how many in-person classes we can host, given social distancing restrictions.”

(05-28-2020 03:04 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 02:01 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 01:41 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 01:29 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 11:20 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  Never said it was easy. Just said that a business that's described by jmu98 running on "razor thin margins" that can't weather 3 months can't reasonably be called a 'good' business.

I feel for small business owners. This pandemic sucks. Objecting to jmu98's characterization doesn't somehow inherently make me unsympathetic. But at the same time we should be pragmatic about looking at bankruptcies from JC Penny and Pier 1, and Airbnb arbitrage, and the weakest echelon of small businesses and see the houses of cards for what they were.

You just don't understand business if you think it is only weak ones that have thin margins and low cash reserves. But you like to talk about it as though you do, so much so that you remind me of the professor of business in the Rodney Dangerfield movie, Back To School.

Since you have little to no clue I will spell it out for you, many industries, including the entire restaurant business operate on razor thin margins. For restaurants, be it a coffee shop, a high volume place like Old Ebbitt Grill which does $48M in revenue per year or a high end place with 3-Michelin stars like Eleven Madison Park (which by the way may not survive the shut down) the margins in the restaurant business aren't the greatest.

Here is a real world case study for you: Fado Irish Pub in Chinatown DC. It has been there for over 30 years, and due to its location and proximity to the CapitalOne Arena does booming business every night that there is a Caps or Wizards home game or other similar event, and also being in one of the more touristy areas of the city has a lot of walk up traffic anyways. They are about as close as you get in the restaurant business to a place that just prints money. I'd call that place a very successful business. It gave their owners a comfortable lifestyle and employed many people for a long time.

Fast forward to March 2020 and the city goes on lockdown right before St. Patrick's day so basically their Black Friday/Superbowl event for the year isn't happening and Caps/Wizards were in full steam and it all ends so they are out big time money every day. Early this month Fado joins a list of many other restaurants in the city to announce that they won't be coming back when the lockdown ends. The rent never decreased, they had other bills to pay...IOW they couldn't afford to lose the income. Game over!

This is reality. It isn't just some theoretical 'widget' and our businesses aren't in la-la land where everyone has great profit margins and cash reserves.

You realize there is money to be made in bankruptcy right? I believe those owners might know that and are using it to their advantage as there are numerous government programs/grants/loan to help mitigate current losses. I mean other restaurants are giving away free meals to healthcare workers, certainly they were hit hard too right? How is it possible to give away freebies in a time when others can't survive? To find a questionable case study that supports your ideology doesn't mean much.

For full disclosure, I am a silent/minority owner in a NYC based restaurant that recently opened a second location.

Yes I do realize that, and congrats on opening a second location that is a huge accomplishment and if it goes well is one of the best mitigations for weathering events like this as there is safety in numbers. My point to that other guy is that it doesn't mean they weren't well run businesses because they can't survive this shutdown.

My point was that the owners of Fado Irish pub, as a result of successfully running a restaurant for 30+ years, are in a position that they can just "quit" to save the wealth that they have built. They were most likely fully able to survive but to do so would have temporary deteriorated a portion of their wealth and they didn't want to do that. They (and it appears the tavern owner that oldddawg mentioned) are lucky that they could make that choice, me and my two buddies don't have that luxury.

Yeah I agree they probably did say eff it and used Covid to get out of their lease, but if it weren't for the shutdown they'd still be open it wasn't like they would have closed otherwise. I think we see a lot of that, as well as places where they didn't have the bankroll to sustain a long term closure and they had to go belly up. You know how hard the restaurant business can be...I wouldn't say a business is good or bad based on whether they can stay open. I've seen all kinds of restaurants come and go for reasons that don't have to do with how good the food was or how well it was run.

(05-28-2020 01:29 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  You just don't understand business if you think it is only weak ones that have thin margins and low cash reserves.

This is reality. It isn't just some theoretical 'widget' and our businesses aren't in la-la land where everyone has great profit margins and cash reserves.

You guys are insufferable. WELL WHAT ABOUT SEASONAL BUSINESSES. WELL WHAT ABOUT RESTAURANTS. Yes, yes, there’s obviously a spectrum. As it turns out, “small business” is not a black and white sector as a whole. Coming up with narrowly defined examples has blown my thesis wide open. I don’t understand anything because I’m just a big dummy.

BJK’s JMU business degree is clearly worthless lol.

(05-28-2020 05:45 PM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 01:29 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  You just don't understand business if you think it is only weak ones that have thin margins and low cash reserves.

This is reality. It isn't just some theoretical 'widget' and our businesses aren't in la-la land where everyone has great profit margins and cash reserves.

You guys are insufferable. WELL WHAT ABOUT SEASONAL BUSINESSES. WELL WHAT ABOUT RESTAURANTS. Yes, yes, there’s obviously a spectrum. As it turns out, “small business” is not a black and white sector as a whole. Coming up with narrowly defined examples has blown my thesis wide open. I don’t understand anything because I’m just a big dummy.

Agreed.

(05-28-2020 09:49 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-27-2020 05:15 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(05-27-2020 12:34 PM)Dukester Wrote:  So Longhorn - what do you expect once classes are supposed to start in August for JMU. Talking just academics, not athletics?

What % do you give to live classes resuming on time?

What changes do you expect academically? Smaller class sizes, adding more classes based on smaller class sizes? etc.

a) Your speculation
b) Anything already discussed with the staff

All excellent questions, but I can only offer my guesses...I honestly can’t answer any of your questions with any sense of certainty.

JMU’s Senior Leadership is meeting almost constantly, and the planning process (at least on paper) is for a regular, on-time, on-campus opening for the Fall semester. Work on various contingencies for identifying and segregating students who show signs of the virus are in the works, as are ideas about how more online instruction can be supported. All this is still very fluid...online instruction is not what JMU is known for, and the unknowns make me extremely nervous. How the heck do you teach lab sciences online? How do you teach any discipline where “hands on” access to highly specialized equipment is fundamental to the learning process? The challenges are immense.

Good news. The number of incoming students who accepted their offer of admission, and who have paid their Fall reservation fees is high, and ahead of the numbers of past years. This is encouraging news, and projects well for the Fall enrollment to meet planned budget targets. That said, pre-paid reservations doesn’t mean the students will show up, and VT admissions is still up to no good impacting other state schools.

Every program (academic or otherwise) is presently on lockdown with respect to expenditures. It’s a real $$$ pinch, and how the hit from the last qtr. of this past FY impacts next year’s budget (starting July 1) is still up in the air.

I can say this: Class sizes are not likely to be smaller because the academic budget for hiring adjunct or part-time faculty has been zeroed out. It would be a good bet that class-sizes will actually increase, to the maximum the full-time faculty can support. There is going to be a belt-tightening all across the university, from previously planned construction projects, faculty and staff compensation, and other initiatives...they are all on hold.

Again, JMU is better positioned to weather this pandemic than almost any other institution I can think of, but like Bette Davis once said “Fasten your seat belts. It’s going to be a bumpy night.”

LH,

Thanks for your response. Highlighted above you indicated class sizes would likely increase. I was thinking for social distancing reasons classes would likely be smaller. I can't recall any situations were bigger groups were intended to be created due to Covid-19. I know the grade schools are working on ways to create distancing. Suggested student my go every other day to reduce class size. Stores are limiting #s. Restaurants (that are allowed to open) are at reduced capacity.

Another bit of planning news was released today. Students will be required to wear masks to attend class. No mask? You’ll be asked to leave and don’t get to sit in a class. All faculty will be required to wear masks while teaching. Probably expected during office hours too. Faculty will be issued 5 masks (saw one today as they’ve already been issued to housekeeping. Spoke to two of our building’s housekeepers...an unusual sight as they’ve been called in to focus on student housing. Anyway, as you might have guessed...the housekeeper’s masks are purple. Not a super-duper N-95 mask, but made out of some kind of purple cloth.

As for class sizes the idea of maintaining social distancing makes all the sense in the world, but how do you do that if the demand for required classes remains high (based on the assumption that the Fall enrollment stays basically as predicted) but the number of adjuncts are cut? Also, hard to social distance with ensemble work or in labs with limited equipment where group work is the norm.

Oh, and this idea was also shared...faculty will be encouraged to “front load” their syllabi with all the “hands-on” work coming early in the semester, just in case things go south and a resurgent virus forces JMU to revert to an online format to finish the semester. Honestly, I understand where that might work in some limited cases, but pedagogically it is an absolutely silly notion and runs counter to the very premise that knowledge is cumulative, and as students learn or master one skill set they build upon that knowledge base to demonstrate ever increasingly more complex thinking.

(05-28-2020 08:07 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 09:49 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-27-2020 05:15 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(05-27-2020 12:34 PM)Dukester Wrote:  So Longhorn - what do you expect once classes are supposed to start in August for JMU. Talking just academics, not athletics?

What % do you give to live classes resuming on time?

What changes do you expect academically? Smaller class sizes, adding more classes based on smaller class sizes? etc.

a) Your speculation
b) Anything already discussed with the staff

All excellent questions, but I can only offer my guesses...I honestly can’t answer any of your questions with any sense of certainty.

JMU’s Senior Leadership is meeting almost constantly, and the planning process (at least on paper) is for a regular, on-time, on-campus opening for the Fall semester. Work on various contingencies for identifying and segregating students who show signs of the virus are in the works, as are ideas about how more online instruction can be supported. All this is still very fluid...online instruction is not what JMU is known for, and the unknowns make me extremely nervous. How the heck do you teach lab sciences online? How do you teach any discipline where “hands on” access to highly specialized equipment is fundamental to the learning process? The challenges are immense.

Good news. The number of incoming students who accepted their offer of admission, and who have paid their Fall reservation fees is high, and ahead of the numbers of past years. This is encouraging news, and projects well for the Fall enrollment to meet planned budget targets. That said, pre-paid reservations doesn’t mean the students will show up, and VT admissions is still up to no good impacting other state schools.

Every program (academic or otherwise) is presently on lockdown with respect to expenditures. It’s a real $$$ pinch, and how the hit from the last qtr. of this past FY impacts next year’s budget (starting July 1) is still up in the air.

I can say this: Class sizes are not likely to be smaller because the academic budget for hiring adjunct or part-time faculty has been zeroed out. It would be a good bet that class-sizes will actually increase, to the maximum the full-time faculty can support. There is going to be a belt-tightening all across the university, from previously planned construction projects, faculty and staff compensation, and other initiatives...they are all on hold.

Again, JMU is better positioned to weather this pandemic than almost any other institution I can think of, but like Bette Davis once said “Fasten your seat belts. It’s going to be a bumpy night.”

LH,

Thanks for your response. Highlighted above you indicated class sizes would likely increase. I was thinking for social distancing reasons classes would likely be smaller. I can't recall any situations were bigger groups were intended to be created due to Covid-19. I know the grade schools are working on ways to create distancing. Suggested student my go every other day to reduce class size. Stores are limiting #s. Restaurants (that are allowed to open) are at reduced capacity.

Oh, and this idea was also shared...faculty will be encouraged to “front load” their syllabi with all the “hands-on” work coming early in the semester, just in case things go south and a resurgent virus forces JMU to revert to an online format to finish the semester. Honestly, I understand where that might work in some limited cases, but pedagogically it is an absolutely silly notion and runs counter to the very premise that knowledge is cumulative, and as students learn or master one skill set they build upon that knowledge base to demonstrate ever increasingly more complex thinking.

I agree with you LH. I think as professors it is incumbent upon you to try your best to teach the syllabus as true to the original plan as possible and use the same level of stringent quality guidelines as you did in your 'in person' classes. I get that there was some leniency early on as people were adapting to the online classes, but by now that shouldn't be a reason to dumb down or lesson the expectations. After all it is still a JMU degree which should infer a certain expectation for quality education.

(05-28-2020 08:07 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(05-28-2020 09:49 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-27-2020 05:15 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(05-27-2020 12:34 PM)Dukester Wrote:  So Longhorn - what do you expect once classes are supposed to start in August for JMU. Talking just academics, not athletics?

What % do you give to live classes resuming on time?

What changes do you expect academically? Smaller class sizes, adding more classes based on smaller class sizes? etc.

a) Your speculation
b) Anything already discussed with the staff

All excellent questions, but I can only offer my guesses...I honestly can’t answer any of your questions with any sense of certainty.

JMU’s Senior Leadership is meeting almost constantly, and the planning process (at least on paper) is for a regular, on-time, on-campus opening for the Fall semester. Work on various contingencies for identifying and segregating students who show signs of the virus are in the works, as are ideas about how more online instruction can be supported. All this is still very fluid...online instruction is not what JMU is known for, and the unknowns make me extremely nervous. How the heck do you teach lab sciences online? How do you teach any discipline where “hands on” access to highly specialized equipment is fundamental to the learning process? The challenges are immense.

Good news. The number of incoming students who accepted their offer of admission, and who have paid their Fall reservation fees is high, and ahead of the numbers of past years. This is encouraging news, and projects well for the Fall enrollment to meet planned budget targets. That said, pre-paid reservations doesn’t mean the students will show up, and VT admissions is still up to no good impacting other state schools.

Every program (academic or otherwise) is presently on lockdown with respect to expenditures. It’s a real $$$ pinch, and how the hit from the last qtr. of this past FY impacts next year’s budget (starting July 1) is still up in the air.

I can say this: Class sizes are not likely to be smaller because the academic budget for hiring adjunct or part-time faculty has been zeroed out. It would be a good bet that class-sizes will actually increase, to the maximum the full-time faculty can support. There is going to be a belt-tightening all across the university, from previously planned construction projects, faculty and staff compensation, and other initiatives...they are all on hold.

Again, JMU is better positioned to weather this pandemic than almost any other institution I can think of, but like Bette Davis once said “Fasten your seat belts. It’s going to be a bumpy night.”

LH,

Thanks for your response. Highlighted above you indicated class sizes would likely increase. I was thinking for social distancing reasons classes would likely be smaller. I can't recall any situations were bigger groups were intended to be created due to Covid-19. I know the grade schools are working on ways to create distancing. Suggested student my go every other day to reduce class size. Stores are limiting #s. Restaurants (that are allowed to open) are at reduced capacity.

Another bit of planning news was released today. Students will be required to wear masks to attend class. No mask? You’ll be asked to leave and don’t get to sit in a class. All faculty will be required to wear masks while teaching. Probably expected during office hours too. Faculty will be issued 5 masks (saw one today as they’ve already been issued to housekeeping. Spoke to two of our building’s housekeepers...an unusual sight as they’ve been called in to focus on student housing. Anyway, as you might have guessed...the housekeeper’s masks are purple. Not a super-duper N-95 mask, but made out of some kind of purple cloth.

As for class sizes the idea of maintaining social distancing makes all the sense in the world, but how do you do that if the demand for required classes remains high (based on the assumption that the Fall enrollment stays basically as predicted) but the number of adjuncts are cut? Also, hard to social distance with ensemble work or in labs with limited equipment where group work is the norm.

Oh, and this idea was also shared...faculty will be encouraged to “front load” their syllabi with all the “hands-on” work coming early in the semester, just in case things go south and a resurgent virus forces JMU to revert to an online format to finish the semester. Honestly, I understand where that might work in some limited cases, but pedagogically it is an absolutely silly notion and runs counter to the very premise that knowledge is cumulative, and as students learn or master one skill set they build upon that knowledge base to demonstrate ever increasingly more complex thinking.

Isn’t that a little pre mature to be making a decision on masks for classes that don’t start for about 3 months? The virus could still be here somewhat prevalent at the end of Aug, or could be virtually gone. That’s something that could easily be decided a month, or even a few weeks out, depending on the outlook in Aug. Heck, states and other entities have been doing mask mandates with only a few days notice..