Let’s pretend UTA already had their new president and he/she just announced the Maverick’s plan to add FBS football. As a full conference member, UTA would have a guaranteed landing spot in the Sun Belt. That would put our football membership at 11 and 12 for basketball.

Do we add one football only member like NMSU or UMass and call it a day?
Do we demand Little Rock start football or leave as the only non-football team and try to add another full member?
Do we see what happens with the AAC waiver over the next couple years to see if the NCAA eventually allows 11 members and a championship game?
Do you try to grab a CUSA team and then have NMSU as a backup?
Something else?

You are the commissioner - what do you recommend to the Sun Belt presidents should be our next move(s)?

(03-28-2020 08:14 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  Let’s pretend UTA already had their new president and he/she just announced the Maverick’s plan to add FBS football. As a full conference member, UTA would have a guaranteed landing spot in the Sun Belt. That would put our football membership at 11 and 12 for basketball.

Do we add one football only member like NMSU or UMass and call it a day?
Do we demand Little Rock start football or leave as the only non-football team and try to add another full member?
Do we see what happens with the AAC waiver over the next couple years to see if the NCAA eventually allows 11 members and a championship game?
Do you try to grab a CUSA team and then have NMSU as a backup?
Something else?

You are the commissioner - what do you recommend to the Sun Belt presidents should be our next move(s)?

* Telling Little Rock to form a football program, and then adding them is a bad idea. They don't have the resources/facilities/support for football, and it would likely be a cellar dwellar in that sport... and we DON'T need that. Sun Belt has been too successful in football to let that happen.

* Adding NMSU would be stupid. Just another cellar dwellar program.

* If we HAVE to add UTA... I hope they would start out in FCS for a while.

* If UTA does become an FBS program, then persuade a CUSA member to come to the Sun Belt. Obviously most of us would like to see Southern Miss.

Adding UTA in football helps TxSt with an instate conference game in football. It sure-ups the western edge of the conference, by adding NMSU just creates another outlier.

UALR would struggle more than ULM with budget issues, however, they have a stadium they can play in. Might have to tell UALR to head off to another conference, but I would give them the opportunity to decide on their own. That would give stAte an instate rival and take another hit to that school in Fayetteville. The conference division is real easy if both schools start football.

If UALR opts out, make a hard run at USM. Whatever school we add needs to be inside the current conference footprint. i would say UTC for a second choice, but they don’t have baseball, and that’s unacceptable.

Southern Miss has a daily show called "Eagle Hour" where some of their broadcasters have indicated they would seriously consider the move, though I doubt they would go through with it, just because of how close they are to ULL and USA. If luring a CUSA school didn't work, then reach out to Chattanooga. For reasons I've explained in the past, they would be a solid addition to this league, even despite not having a baseball program. If that was a deal breaker, then you could look to Missouri State for an all sports member, or look to Liberty as a football only member. Those are the realistic options I think you could honestly perceive. Most include giving UALR the boot, except for the Liberty as a football only member option.

As much as the 10/12 set-up we currently have works, I think if UTA adds football you want a 12th football playing member, meaning Little Rock may get replaced. Question is, what quality options do we have that don't further weaken the SBC brand more than UTA probably already will? I don't want to be completely dismissive of FCS call-ups because obviously we've had some recent success with those. But I'm not sure I see another home run FCS call-up out there right now. We may finally be in position to be attractive enough to lure a CUSA member, and that would be worth looking at. Not sure I see anyone in the FBS independents that's realistic that I'd take. Nobody wants Liberty and NMSU certainly won't help football (would be a good basketball add though).

I think I lean more towards not wanting UTA to re-start football. As nice as it'd be to have an in-state conference opponent, I think 12 FBS teams in this state is more than enough. We don't need the talent pool getting futher diluted. Plus UTA will probably suck for a number of years, and we're finally starting to get to where even the bottom of the league is at least competitive most years. Not sure we want another doormat right now that could take years to get up to speed.

(03-28-2020 10:45 AM)_x_ Wrote:  As much as the 10/12 set-up we currently have works, I think if UTA adds football you want a 12th football playing member, meaning Little Rock may get replaced. Question is, what quality options do we have that don't further weaken the SBC brand more than UTA probably already will? I don't want to be completely dismissive of FCS call-ups because obviously we've had some recent success with those. But I'm not sure I see another home run FCS call-up out there right now. We may finally be in position to be attractive enough to lure a CUSA member, and that would be worth looking at. Not sure I see anyone in the FBS independents that's realistic that I'd take. Nobody wants Liberty and NMSU certainly won't help football (would be a good basketball add though).

I think I lean more towards not wanting UTA to re-start football. As nice as it'd be to have an in-state conference opponent, I think 12 FBS teams in this state is more than enough. We don't need the talent pool getting futher diluted. Plus UTA will probably suck for a number of years, and we're finally starting to get to where even the bottom of the league is at least competitive most years. Not sure we want another doormat right now that could take years to get up to speed.

Before Ga State started football, was there talk about them possibly "weakening the brand" of Sun Belt football? If so, that prediction was pretty wrong. You just can't tell until it actually happens. I think once UTA is in, we will be all in.

Georgia State went 1-23 over their first two seasons in the SBC. Yes, they weakened the league at first. We just finally got to where we don't have any teams quite that bad anymore after years and years of always having at least a couple.

I'm not trying to be insulting to UTA at all. But its pretty likely you're gonna suck for at least 5 or so years when you start up. GSU certainly did.

(03-28-2020 03:23 PM)_x_ Wrote:  Georgia State went 1-23 over their first two seasons in the SBC. Yes, they weakened the league at first. We just finally got to where we don't have any teams quite that bad anymore after years and years of always having at least a couple.

I'm not trying to be insulting to UTA at all. But its pretty likely you're gonna suck for at least 5 or so years when you start up. GSU certainly did.

Given the obligatory transition phases, one hopes the "suckiness" will be kept to a minimum. Also, the NCAA transfer portal rules may have given new programs a much shorter timeline required to build up strength. Of course, this conversation, like all UTA football chats is premature. It could still be many moons before we get anything done.

In 1985, we had a good team at the FCS level, then called division 1-AA. The school was largely a commuter campus with a 2 to 1 male/female ratio. There was no nursing school. Then President Nedderman decided that football was not viable at UTA.

Now, the school has (of its 40K+ enrollment) around 10,000 students living in campus housing, the ratio is 60/40 female to male, and there is a nursing school numbering over 18,000 (largest in Texas).

Based on the foregoing changes, I think football would be viable now at UTA, but we're still waiting for someone to test that theory. It would be worthwhile to see how many season tickets or Maverick Club memberships would be sold if football were on the ballot. I think it's long past time to find out.

Let's be fair to UTA here. The product we put on the field the first few years was well beyond the level of bad anyone should expect from a startup with FBS or high-level FCS aspirations.

(03-28-2020 09:29 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  Let's be fair to UTA here. The product we put on the field the first few years was well beyond the level of bad anyone should expect from a startup with FBS or high-level FCS aspirations.

Speaking only for myself, I don't care if UTA FB is good . . . . or bad, just quit "talking about it," and do it already.

I'd also like UNT to bring Baseball back . . .

The more sports, the merrier . . .

I feel we would give Little Rock an option to join. Could UTA join the Sunbelt fast as South and Ga State from 0 to full member? Maybe, but we are in different times. I would like to take someone from CUSA. If we don't get Southern Miss, Marshall would be a good add for the east division.

(03-28-2020 02:59 PM)wewererebels Wrote:  Before Ga State started football, was there talk about them possibly "weakening the brand" of Sun Belt football? If so, that prediction was pretty wrong. You just can't tell until it actually happens. I think once UTA is in, we will be all in.

Yes, there was actually. When Georgia State was announced as an incoming member, we liked it from a basketball standpoint... we did not like it from a football standpoint... and their first few seasons as an SBC member shows why. They were a DEAD WEIGHT.

South Alabama had a very good model for establishing football and moving up, although I do believe it would've been better had they stayed FCS a little longer so that they could keep winning, thus establish a solid foundation for a fanbase.

(03-28-2020 04:18 PM)wewererebels Wrote:  

(03-28-2020 03:23 PM)_x_ Wrote:  Georgia State went 1-23 over their first two seasons in the SBC. Yes, they weakened the league at first. We just finally got to where we don't have any teams quite that bad anymore after years and years of always having at least a couple.

I'm not trying to be insulting to UTA at all. But its pretty likely you're gonna suck for at least 5 or so years when you start up. GSU certainly did.

Given the obligatory transition phases, one hopes the "suckiness" will be kept to a minimum. Also, the NCAA transfer portal rules may have given new programs a much shorter timeline required to build up strength. Of course, this conversation, like all UTA football chats is premature. It could still be many moons before we get anything done.

In 1985, we had a good team at the FCS level, then called division 1-AA. The school was largely a commuter campus with a 2 to 1 male/female ratio. There was no nursing school. Then President Nedderman decided that football was not viable at UTA.

Now, the school has (of its 40K+ enrollment) around 10,000 students living in campus housing, the ratio is 60/40 female to male, and there is a nursing school numbering over 18,000 (largest in Texas).

Based on the foregoing changes, I think football would be viable now at UTA, but we're still waiting for someone to test that theory. It would be worthwhile to see how many season tickets or Maverick Club memberships would be sold if football were on the ballot. I think it's long past time to find out.

true uta has become a very large university but with a large number of international students and the expansion of all the liberal arts programs I think the school might face the same situation as untexas where the diehard sports fanatic has less and less impact on the goings on there.

(03-28-2020 10:00 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  

(03-28-2020 09:29 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  Let's be fair to UTA here. The product we put on the field the first few years was well beyond the level of bad anyone should expect from a startup with FBS or high-level FCS aspirations.

Speaking only for myself, I don't care if UTA FB is good . . . . or bad, just quit "talking about it," and do it already.

I'd also like UNT to bring Baseball back . . .

The more sports, the merrier . . .

It is always strange to me that SMU and UNT are the 2 DFW schools that don't offer baseball.

(03-30-2020 02:54 PM)grumpdoggMav Wrote:  

(03-28-2020 10:00 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  

(03-28-2020 09:29 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  Let's be fair to UTA here. The product we put on the field the first few years was well beyond the level of bad anyone should expect from a startup with FBS or high-level FCS aspirations.

Speaking only for myself, I don't care if UTA FB is good . . . . or bad, just quit "talking about it," and do it already.

I'd also like UNT to bring Baseball back . . .

The more sports, the merrier . . .

It is always strange to me that SMU and UNT are the 2 DFW schools that don't offer baseball.

I thought that untexas was about to add baseball because a minor league team was willing to chip in on a shared ballpark in Denton..maybe that fell thru.

(03-31-2020 09:10 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(03-30-2020 02:54 PM)grumpdoggMav Wrote:  

(03-28-2020 10:00 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  

(03-28-2020 09:29 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  Let's be fair to UTA here. The product we put on the field the first few years was well beyond the level of bad anyone should expect from a startup with FBS or high-level FCS aspirations.

Speaking only for myself, I don't care if UTA FB is good . . . . or bad, just quit "talking about it," and do it already.

I'd also like UNT to bring Baseball back . . .

The more sports, the merrier . . .

It is always strange to me that SMU and UNT are the 2 DFW schools that don't offer baseball.

I thought that untexas was about to add baseball because a minor league team was willing to chip in on a shared ballpark in Denton..maybe that fell thru.

Just checked. They have a baseball stadium in their 20 year athletic building plan so they must plan to revive it. Looks like they have a club baseball team that plays in a similar league to what the UTA men's club soccer program plays in.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

If we kept winning that would helped some, but it's hard to build that fanbase when there a lot of Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Florida State fans from the P5. Very hard to compete for fans when Alabama or Auburn in contention to win the National Title since South started football. I know a number of Troy fans that live in Mobile that make that drive to Troy on Saturdays. In year 3 of our program, we gave NC State fits at their stadium with 2 100 yard RBs. Good thing they had a NFL qb that day. I think think we are late to the party on football and should have started it in the 90s or even sooner. At least Troy has generations of fans, where we are trying to get there.

(03-31-2020 03:27 PM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  If we kept winning that would helped some, but it's hard to build that fanbase when there a lot of Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Florida State fans from the P5. Very hard to compete for fans when Alabama or Auburn in contention to win the National Title since South started football. I know a number of Troy fans that live in Mobile that make that drive to Troy on Saturdays. In year 3 of our program, we gave NC State fits at their stadium with 2 100 yard RBs. Good thing they had a NFL qb that day. I think think we are late to the party on football and should have started it in the 90s or even sooner. At least Troy has generations of fans, where we are trying to get there.

Agreed, winning is essential to getting fans in the seats, and it has to be consistent. For a local example, TCU has over 100 years of tradition and loyal fans - yet they have struggled to fill their stadium, even after decades of winning and contending. Our other local examples, UNT and SMU haven't won lately as much as TCU, and it is reflected in their attendance.

SMU and UnTexas average maybe 15-20K per home game. Do people just not go to football games anymore? That seems to be the trend for non P5 schools, with the notable exception of several traditionally black schools, who have less problem selling the tickets and filling the seats. I suspect the SWAC has better overall attendance numbers than the Belt or CUSA.

Quick google search brings up 2018 numbers. The SWAC is lower than both, but not by much.

SBC and CUSA were 8th and 9th in FBS at 17,381 and 18,874. SWAC was easily tops in the FCS at 15,240 (2nd best was MVFC at 9,864).

(03-31-2020 07:30 PM)wewererebels Wrote:  

(03-31-2020 03:27 PM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  If we kept winning that would helped some, but it's hard to build that fanbase when there a lot of Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Florida State fans from the P5. Very hard to compete for fans when Alabama or Auburn in contention to win the National Title since South started football. I know a number of Troy fans that live in Mobile that make that drive to Troy on Saturdays. In year 3 of our program, we gave NC State fits at their stadium with 2 100 yard RBs. Good thing they had a NFL qb that day. I think think we are late to the party on football and should have started it in the 90s or even sooner. At least Troy has generations of fans, where we are trying to get there.

Agreed, winning is essential to getting fans in the seats, and it has to be consistent. For a local example, TCU has over 100 years of tradition and loyal fans - yet they have struggled to fill their stadium, even after decades of winning and contending. Our other local examples, UNT and SMU haven't won lately as much as TCU, and it is reflected in their attendance.

SMU and UnTexas average maybe 15-20K per home game. Do people just not go to football games anymore? That seems to be the trend for non P5 schools, with the notable exception of several traditionally black schools, who have less problem selling the tickets and filling the seats. I suspect the SWAC has better overall attendance numbers than the Belt or CUSA.

I think the new generation of college kids are just interested in other stuff. there are still enough diehard fans around to support the old state flagship schools because they have a national following and get plenty of tv time. those others that have some regional foothold are holding kinda steady but dont have big numbers. practically no college kids I know have much interest or knowledge of college sports and most gripe about having to pay some of their tuition dollars toward sports. if they do go to any games, they spend most of their time looking at their phone. not many buy school swag or provide much support to their school after graduation. just a sign of the times. IMHO