Dr. Nicole Saphier just asked that. Said, "What good does it do us to defeat this virus, if it completely collapses our economic system?"

She apparently subscribes to the Stink Doctrine, just like Trump. Except she usually errs on the side of medical caution.

Even the medical experts are starting to come around.

And even Cuomo said yesterday that he thinks he may have made a mistake in shutting everything down, b/c we have to manage both the virus and the economy.

We have to weigh the potential economic collapse vs. the potential healthcare system collapse. There's a balance there somewhere and obviously we are having trouble finding it.

Regardless of whether it's now, or a month from now, or 6 months from now, etc. - everyone is going to get exposed to this virus.

oops

He's right you know gif

(03-27-2020 12:10 PM)PlainTiger Wrote:  We have to weigh the potential economic collapse vs. the potential healthcare system collapse. There's a balance there somewhere and obviously we are having trouble finding it.

Regardless of whether it's now, or a month from now, or 6 months from now, etc. - everyone is going to get exposed to this virus.

Yep. I understand why we tried to flatten the curve, to keep from overwhelming our medical system, and having people die who could otherwise be saved.

But maybe...in our (understandable) ardor, we tilted toward dealing our economy a death blow, when most of those who are dying have underlying medical conditions and are of an advanced age.

The rest are mostly just having a case of the flu.

(03-27-2020 12:10 PM)PlainTiger Wrote:  We have to weigh the potential economic collapse vs. the potential healthcare system collapse. There's a balance there somewhere and obviously we are having trouble finding it.

Regardless of whether it's now, or a month from now, or 6 months from now, etc. - everyone is going to get exposed to this virus.

There are those who disagree with 'everyone' but whatever percentage it take of the US population to achieve herd immunity is well over 65% IMO. That said there are still epidemiologists who are advocating for more 2 week shelter in place. An Emory professor just held a call with metro Atlanta officials stating that if this action wasn't implemented that the state 'might as well just prepare for a catastrophe.'

Ultimately, this is unknown territory and I fear the virologists and epidemiologists are going to harm their credibility if this pandemic doesn't cause catastrophic death. Falling back on 'an overabundance of caution' will not be sufficient cover.

Too many people thought we would look like Italy, without understanding why Italy was so bad. (Why they had a high number of cases and why their medical system was ill prepared to handle a single case of coronovirus)

I hate repeating myself............but. .....

#~1mos

it's as predictable as walking out the backdoor and taking whizz at ~2:30 a.m..

it is the stink doctrine afterall

could we just have thrown the stimulus package at the health care and kept the economy going?

I don't think anybody is arguing that we shouldn't shut down NYC. Same with Seattle. Maybe New Orleans.

What Cuomo is saying is he shouldn't have shut down the rest of the state. Nor should we have shut down practically the entire country.

(03-27-2020 01:05 PM)Lush Wrote:  could we just have thrown the stimulus package at the health care and kept the economy going?

I'll disagree with stinkfist and say the travel ban and two work restrictions were prudent measures. I think one criticism that can be leveled is that those two weeks weren't effectively used to brace the health care system for the coming shock.

As for the stimulus, the airlines have functionally collapsed with the travel ban and hospitality/tourism will feel the brunt as well. I don't think funds for alone health care would have done the trick.

(03-27-2020 01:08 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I don't think anybody is arguing that we shouldn't shut down NYC. Same with Seattle. Maybe New Orleans.

What Cuomo is saying is he shouldn't have shut down the rest of the state. Nor should we have shut down practically the entire country.

I think the question at this point what parts of the country should we begin to open up. I'd start with the Great Plains as it looks to be under control there. As for NY State, maybe another week? With the number of cases in NY/NJ I'd worry about another spike as people tried to get out.

(03-27-2020 12:10 PM)PlainTiger Wrote:  We have to weigh the potential economic collapse vs. the potential healthcare system collapse. There's a balance there somewhere and obviously we are having trouble finding it.

Regardless of whether it's now, or a month from now, or 6 months from now, etc. - everyone is going to get exposed to this virus.

This is kinda where Im at. The "it just the flu people" are simply wrong. On the other hand--as Trump has said, the cure cant be worse than the long term damage. The intial crash closing of everthing was probably prudent--but now we need to figure out how to strike a better balance going forward with a much more informed public. This is going to be up to the public to be smart. It they continue to exercise great care once we open more of the economy---I think it will be ok---especially once we have beefed up the healthcare system ICU capacity.

(03-27-2020 01:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 12:10 PM)PlainTiger Wrote:  We have to weigh the potential economic collapse vs. the potential healthcare system collapse. There's a balance there somewhere and obviously we are having trouble finding it.

Regardless of whether it's now, or a month from now, or 6 months from now, etc. - everyone is going to get exposed to this virus.

This is kinda where Im at. The "it just the flu people" are simply wrong. On the other hand--as Trump has said, the cure cant be worse than the long term damage. The intial crash closing of everthing was probably prudent--but now we need to figure out how to strike a better balance going forward with a much more informed public. This is going to be up to the public to be smart. It they continue to exercise great care once we open more of the economy---I think it will be ok---especially once we have beefed up the healthcare system ICU capacity.

The 'just the flu' folks weren't talking about the hospitalizations, but the yearly deaths caused by the flu and how nonplussed as a society we are by them.

(03-27-2020 01:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 12:10 PM)PlainTiger Wrote:  We have to weigh the potential economic collapse vs. the potential healthcare system collapse. There's a balance there somewhere and obviously we are having trouble finding it.

Regardless of whether it's now, or a month from now, or 6 months from now, etc. - everyone is going to get exposed to this virus.

This is kinda where Im at. The "it just the flu people" are simply wrong. On the other hand--as Trump has said, the cure cant be worse than the long term damage. The intial crash closing of everthing was probably prudent--but now we need to figure out how to strike a better balance going forward with a much more informed public. This is going to be up to the public to be smart. It they continue to exercise great care once we open more of the economy---I think it will be ok---especially once we have beefed up the healthcare system ICU capacity.

I was in that camp until today, when I heard 2 different docs say that more testing and more cases have now knocked the practical death rate down to flu levels. That's still maybe 80K dead in a bad year, but not 2.2M.

(03-27-2020 01:35 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 01:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 12:10 PM)PlainTiger Wrote:  We have to weigh the potential economic collapse vs. the potential healthcare system collapse. There's a balance there somewhere and obviously we are having trouble finding it.

Regardless of whether it's now, or a month from now, or 6 months from now, etc. - everyone is going to get exposed to this virus.

This is kinda where Im at. The "it just the flu people" are simply wrong. On the other hand--as Trump has said, the cure cant be worse than the long term damage. The intial crash closing of everthing was probably prudent--but now we need to figure out how to strike a better balance going forward with a much more informed public. This is going to be up to the public to be smart. It they continue to exercise great care once we open more of the economy---I think it will be ok---especially once we have beefed up the healthcare system ICU capacity.

The 'just the flu' folks weren't talking about the hospitalizations, but the yearly deaths caused by the flu and how nonplussed as a society we are by them.

Kinda This.

Us so-called "just the flu" people, of which I am one, never said it wouldn;t kill some people, but that if we were truly concerned as a country and society about death in general, especially those deaths we could actually choose to do something to mitigate/reduce/end...then why are so many so callous about the 60+ million deaths intentionally inflicted upon innocent women and children with , yup, the baby-murder industry?--because it's a business, though it is inherently a business of pure evil;

and why no stopping all folks from driving--since many more thousands are killed on roadways, and the regular flu that kills more annually every year than this coronabug, etc...etc...? Some things cost society more than others, but we cannot stop commerce at every drop of the hat situation, and this situation shows it. We cannot prevent all deaths, though we do well to try and be prudent about not intentionally inflicting unnecessary ones.

Starting with the baby-killing, it's hard to listen to, say, far lefties scream about a few hundred coronabug deaths, many (not all) among the older and already afflicted, when these same folks give not $#it one about murdering baby girls intentionally and selfishly to cover up a decision they already made and then want a do-over on at the cost of a human life. The response and reaction to this situation is a classic example of how ridiculous it is for one group of people to shift the costs for their decisions to another innocent group who has no real choice in the matter. Now, $2 trillion dollars is added to the big-government nonsense, when we could've spent a smaller portion of that money to simply target hospitalizations only for those who really needed it from this. What a waste.

(03-27-2020 01:35 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 01:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 12:10 PM)PlainTiger Wrote:  We have to weigh the potential economic collapse vs. the potential healthcare system collapse. There's a balance there somewhere and obviously we are having trouble finding it.

Regardless of whether it's now, or a month from now, or 6 months from now, etc. - everyone is going to get exposed to this virus.

This is kinda where Im at. The "it just the flu people" are simply wrong. On the other hand--as Trump has said, the cure cant be worse than the long term damage. The intial crash closing of everthing was probably prudent--but now we need to figure out how to strike a better balance going forward with a much more informed public. This is going to be up to the public to be smart. It they continue to exercise great care once we open more of the economy---I think it will be ok---especially once we have beefed up the healthcare system ICU capacity.

The 'just the flu' folks weren't talking about the hospitalizations, but the yearly deaths caused by the flu and how nonplussed as a society we are by them.

And we've had 700,000 hospitalizations due to the flu this season. Corona is still WAY behind that number.

(03-27-2020 02:14 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 01:35 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 01:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 12:10 PM)PlainTiger Wrote:  We have to weigh the potential economic collapse vs. the potential healthcare system collapse. There's a balance there somewhere and obviously we are having trouble finding it.

Regardless of whether it's now, or a month from now, or 6 months from now, etc. - everyone is going to get exposed to this virus.

This is kinda where Im at. The "it just the flu people" are simply wrong. On the other hand--as Trump has said, the cure cant be worse than the long term damage. The intial crash closing of everthing was probably prudent--but now we need to figure out how to strike a better balance going forward with a much more informed public. This is going to be up to the public to be smart. It they continue to exercise great care once we open more of the economy---I think it will be ok---especially once we have beefed up the healthcare system ICU capacity.

The 'just the flu' folks weren't talking about the hospitalizations, but the yearly deaths caused by the flu and how nonplussed as a society we are by them.

And we've had 700,000 hospitalizations due to the flu this season. Corona is still WAY behind that number.

These CoVid-19 deaths any other year would just be included in the 50,000+/- pneumonia deaths that happen every year with not even a mention on the news. Watch the pneumonia death count miraculously decrease this year for some odd reason as these deaths will be attributed to something else.

(03-27-2020 02:35 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 02:14 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 01:35 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 01:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 12:10 PM)PlainTiger Wrote:  We have to weigh the potential economic collapse vs. the potential healthcare system collapse. There's a balance there somewhere and obviously we are having trouble finding it.

Regardless of whether it's now, or a month from now, or 6 months from now, etc. - everyone is going to get exposed to this virus.

This is kinda where Im at. The "it just the flu people" are simply wrong. On the other hand--as Trump has said, the cure cant be worse than the long term damage. The intial crash closing of everthing was probably prudent--but now we need to figure out how to strike a better balance going forward with a much more informed public. This is going to be up to the public to be smart. It they continue to exercise great care once we open more of the economy---I think it will be ok---especially once we have beefed up the healthcare system ICU capacity.

The 'just the flu' folks weren't talking about the hospitalizations, but the yearly deaths caused by the flu and how nonplussed as a society we are by them.

And we've had 700,000 hospitalizations due to the flu this season. Corona is still WAY behind that number.

These CoVid-19 deaths any other year would just be included in the 50,000+/- pneumonia deaths that happen every year with not even a mention on the news. Watch the pneumonia death count miraculously decrease this year for some odd reason as these deaths will be attributed to something else.

I’d add in the drop in death from car accidents due to fewer miles driven in March and April. When we tally the butchers bill at the end of the year the country may still be within the +/- 2M deaths that is seen.