(03-26-2020 10:52 PM)Niner National Wrote:  If all these people think they had it in the past, it wouldn’t make sense that we are now seeing a surge in hospitalizations just now unless it was here before and mutated to be more severe.

Exactly---all these "its just the flu" folks cant answer one key question. If its just the flu, why is it overwhelming healthcare systems in China, Italy, Spain....and soon New York? Flu doesnt do that to modern healthcare systems. While it apparently is easily handled by the vast majority of the population---for about 15% of the people---its very very serious. I think that's really the difference. The hospitalization rate for flu is only about 28,000 a year in the US. Covid-19 seems to cause more cases of critical illness.

(03-26-2020 09:26 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I think I have already had it.

I think my wife has already had it.

But I'm stuck in my house because the government knows better than I do.

How sure are you? 90%?

Even with that overwhelming confidence, the 90% chance that you've already had it and are immune, where you and your wife stay home and are the only ones inconvenienced, it's less of a cost to society than the 10% chance that you're wrong, you go out and get it or are already carrying it, pass it to 3 people (the average), and it sets off a chain reaction where your refusal to be inconvenienced infects tens of thousands of people, and hundreds die.

(03-26-2020 11:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 10:52 PM)Niner National Wrote:  If all these people think they had it in the past, it wouldn’t make sense that we are now seeing a surge in hospitalizations just now unless it was here before and mutated to be more severe.

Exactly---all these "its just the flu" folks cant answer one key question. If its just the flu, why is it overwhelming healthcare systems in China, Italy, Spain....and soon New York? Flu doesnt do that to modern healthcare systems. While it apparently is easily handled by the vast majority of the population---for about 15% of the people---its very very serious. I think that's really the difference. The hospitalization rate for flu is only about 28,000 a year in the US. Covid-19 seems to cause more cases of critical illness.

I dont know about China and Spain but so much of what I have read was saying Italy's healthcare system was on the verge of collapse and was already overwhelmed prior to this. It seems Italy had a lot of economic issues before this.

(03-26-2020 11:07 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 09:26 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I think I have already had it.

I think my wife has already had it.

But I'm stuck in my house because the government knows better than I do.

How sure are you? 90%?

Even with that overwhelming confidence, the 90% chance that you've already had it and are immune, where you and your wife stay home and are the only ones inconvenienced, it's less of a cost to society than the 10% chance that you're wrong, you go out and get it or are already carrying it, pass it to 3 people (the average), and it sets off a chain reaction where your refusal to be inconvenienced infects tens of thousands of people, and hundreds die.

Oh shut up, stop with the virtue signaling, and say a serenity prayer. You could also get hit by a bus if you go outside. If you stay in you don't have to worry about it. Believe it ir not, you do not get to control everyone else.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I kind of suspect I may have it right now in a very mild case. No temperature or cough or fatigue (which seem to be the 3 most common symptoms), but occasional mild headaches. I continue to take my temperature every morning, do a silly smell test which probably isn't needed (but I smell a super spicy can of pringles to make sure I haven't lost my sense of smell), and then take quite a bit of precautions at work.

I'm hoping my general good health and 0- blood type keeps everything mild for me and my family.

(03-26-2020 11:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 10:52 PM)Niner National Wrote:  If all these people think they had it in the past, it wouldn’t make sense that we are now seeing a surge in hospitalizations just now unless it was here before and mutated to be more severe.

Exactly---all these "its just the flu" folks cant answer one key question. If its just the flu, why is it overwhelming healthcare systems in China, Italy, Spain....and soon New York? Flu doesnt do that to modern healthcare systems. While it apparently is easily handled by the vast majority of the population---for about 15% of the people---its very very serious. I think that's really the difference. The hospitalization rate for flu is only about 28,000 a year in the US. Covid-19 seems to cause more cases of critical illness.

I can only assume you are referring to NYC alone in that figure or you left a zero out, because more people than that die from the flu in America every year. The hospitalization rate in America is 10 times the number you posted. Hospitals are always full with flu patients. The flu figures in America have been posted more times to count so I won't do it here.
The reason hospitals are overwhelmed in some places is due to the flu. They are still getting hospitalized during this. Remember less than 10% of tests come back positive. They have something else.

(03-27-2020 07:09 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 11:07 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 09:26 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I think I have already had it.

I think my wife has already had it.

But I'm stuck in my house because the government knows better than I do.

How sure are you? 90%?

Even with that overwhelming confidence, the 90% chance that you've already had it and are immune, where you and your wife stay home and are the only ones inconvenienced, it's less of a cost to society than the 10% chance that you're wrong, you go out and get it or are already carrying it, pass it to 3 people (the average), and it sets off a chain reaction where your refusal to be inconvenienced infects tens of thousands of people, and hundreds die.

Oh shut up, stop with the virtue signaling, and say a serenity prayer. You could also get hit by a bus if you go outside. If you stay in you don't have to worry about it. Believe it ir not, you do not get to control everyone else.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

yep....it's disturbing how logistics and logic are abandoned due to when/what the msm/politicians 'shout'...

you, me, Guns, and others are in 'that' minority how it could've been handled more effectively for the masses as it begins to play out....DJT got fuxxored once again in their version of the 'gunga din'...

#justAmatterOfTime

#buyingOpInTheMarket

(03-26-2020 11:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 10:52 PM)Niner National Wrote:  If all these people think they had it in the past, it wouldn’t make sense that we are now seeing a surge in hospitalizations just now unless it was here before and mutated to be more severe.

Exactly---all these "its just the flu" folks cant answer one key question. If its just the flu, why is it overwhelming healthcare systems in China, Italy, Spain....and soon New York? Flu doesnt do that to modern healthcare systems. While it apparently is easily handled by the vast majority of the population---for about 15% of the people---its very very serious. I think that's really the difference. The hospitalization rate for flu is only about 28,000 a year in the US. Covid-19 seems to cause more cases of critical illness.

The flue kills between 20 and 50,000 every year in the US. Italy, the absolute worst country has 8,215 so far. That rate would correspond to 45,000 with the US population. If their deaths double that's 90,000, not tremendously worse than a typical US year. And only Spain has a death rate even 30% of Italy's. The typical flue season sense stretches our hospitals.

China's numbers cannot be trusted and Italy and Spain has some of the worst health care in the world. More advanced civilizations like Germany, South Korea, Japan, the UK, and the US are doing much better.

Even Cuomo is questioning what he has done.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closing...h-strategy

"...New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday that his stay-at-home order for the entirety of New York State was “probably not the best public health strategy.”


In a press conference in Albany, Cuomo said the smartest way forward would be a public health strategy that complemented a “get-back-to-work strategy.”

“What we did was we closed everything down. That was our public health strategy. Just close everything, all businesses, old workers, young people, old people, short people, tall people,” said Cuomo. “Every school closed, everything.”

“If you rethought that or had time to analyze that public health strategy, I don't know that you would say quarantine everyone,” Cuomo admitted. “I don't even know that that was the best public health policy. Young people then quarantined with older people was probably not the best public health strategy because the younger people could have been exposing the older people to an infection. ...“"

https://amgreatness.com/2020/03/26/cuomo...of-crisis/

"...That paradigm, apparently, did not include prohibiting hundreds of thousands of potentially infected travelers from entering his state since January. Tourists and business travelers continued to pour into the Big Apple during the first several days of March without any comprehensive screening or restrictions.

Cuomo this week again bragged about his state’s open arms, which resulted in New York’s current crisis. The reason New York now has so many more cases of coronavirus, even more than California, is “because we welcome people from across the globe,” he said on March 25. “We have people coming here, we have people who came here from China, who came here from Italy, who came here from all across the globe....""

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...42788.html

"...After all, by last week, influenza had claimed 23,000 lives in the United States, and yet no politicians or journalists were getting up on soap boxes to declaim the horror of stores remaining open while Americans are dying in hospitals, at home or on the streets as a result of flu...."

(03-27-2020 09:06 AM)bullet Wrote:  Even Cuomo is questioning what he has done.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closing...h-strategy

"...New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday that his stay-at-home order for the entirety of New York State was “probably not the best public health strategy.”


In a press conference in Albany, Cuomo said the smartest way forward would be a public health strategy that complemented a “get-back-to-work strategy.”

“What we did was we closed everything down. That was our public health strategy. Just close everything, all businesses, old workers, young people, old people, short people, tall people,” said Cuomo. “Every school closed, everything.”

“If you rethought that or had time to analyze that public health strategy, I don't know that you would say quarantine everyone,” Cuomo admitted. “I don't even know that that was the best public health policy. Young people then quarantined with older people was probably not the best public health strategy because the younger people could have been exposing the older people to an infection. ...“"

X2

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/...lysis.html

And the President's advisors are looking at the data.

"...There is no model right now -- no reality on the ground where we can see that 60% to 70% of Americans are going to get infected in the next eight to 12 weeks. I want to be clear about that. We are adapting to the reality on the ground and looking at the models of how they can inform but learning from South Korea and Italy and from Spain and I know you will look up my numbers."

(03-27-2020 08:52 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  China's numbers cannot be trusted and Italy and Spain has some of the worst health care in the world. More advanced civilizations like Germany, South Korea, Japan, the UK, and the US are doing much better.

It depends on what you value

Here is the WHO ranking... Spain is on it and we aren't... while certainly some of the good ones are on here, many including France and Spain and the Netherlands made the list

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-heal...ars-old-18

(03-28-2020 07:49 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 08:52 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  China's numbers cannot be trusted and Italy and Spain has some of the worst health care in the world. More advanced civilizations like Germany, South Korea, Japan, the UK, and the US are doing much better.

It depends on what you value
Here is the WHO ranking... Spain is on it and we aren't... while certainly some of the good ones are on here, many including France and Spain and the Netherlands made the list
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-heal...ars-old-18

WHO typically values cost and equality more than quality. Haven't seen the methodology for this ranking,so don't know exactly what it means.

Interesting that the top 5, and 8 of the top 11, do not have single-payer or single-provider systems. Actually, none of them have single-payer.

(03-28-2020 07:49 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 08:52 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  China's numbers cannot be trusted and Italy and Spain has some of the worst health care in the world. More advanced civilizations like Germany, South Korea, Japan, the UK, and the US are doing much better.

It depends on what you value

Here is the WHO ranking... Spain is on it and we aren't... while certainly some of the good ones are on here, many including France and Spain and the Netherlands made the list

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-heal...ars-old-18

Find a better source than the WHO. They will be deemed obsolete this time next year.

(03-26-2020 11:21 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  It seems that most officials have been pretty careful to emphasize slowing the spread rather than saying eliminating the virus altogether. I heard one report of an official stating that up to 80% of the people in this room will get the virus. Now that was just some local county council meeting, but I wondered after hearing that if perhaps all of us, or most of us have had it/will get it. As for the majority, the symptoms are said to be mild to non-existent, that seems a possibility. If so, then theoretically afterwards we will all, or nearly all build up immunities against this mild but highly contagious virus and move on to whatever is the next thing.

I do hope that we can learn some valuable lessons about how to handle this kind of outbreak next time, and there will assuredly be a next time. One thing is clear: having strong national borders that are able to be closed rapidly if needed is an essential element: so I hope they are still working on Building That Wall, and allocating resources to expand it across our southern border.

I agree...and we need international cooperation in regard to quickly reporting outbreaks and quashing them at the source. Maybe some type of international organization with every country participating in on the ground assaults on this stuff...A kind of WHO Health force. The Chinese really fcked everyone on this one. It should never happen again that such a delay in action occur.

(03-26-2020 09:26 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I think I have already had it.

I think my wife has already had it.

But I'm stuck in my house because the government knows better than I do.

Because not everyone survives it so easily you selfish pos.

(03-28-2020 08:08 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(03-28-2020 07:49 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-27-2020 08:52 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  China's numbers cannot be trusted and Italy and Spain has some of the worst health care in the world. More advanced civilizations like Germany, South Korea, Japan, the UK, and the US are doing much better.

It depends on what you value

Here is the WHO ranking... Spain is on it and we aren't... while certainly some of the good ones are on here, many including France and Spain and the Netherlands made the list

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-heal...ars-old-18

Find a better source than the WHO. They will be deemed obsolete this time next year.

lmmfao....

#aproposAcronymnSimplified

@whodat