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Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
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gdunn Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
Let's see..
Italy has 69,176 confirmed cases..with 6,820 deaths.
China has 81,661 confirmed cases.. with 3,285 deaths
Spain has 47,610 confirmed cases.. with 3,434 deaths.

The US has 55,568 confirmed cases.. with 809 deaths..

I'd say we done something right.. But hey Orange Man Bad.
03-25-2020 12:04 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
Quote:Mr. Cuomo crystallized the issue on Tuesday when he said that “the timeline doesn’t work.”

“I don’t need ventilators in six months,” he said. “And I don’t need ventilators in five months, four months or three months.”

Is that the same Mr. Cuomo who had a study that said NY State should buy 16k ventilators to replenish their stockpile back in 2015 but didn't do it? That Cuomo?

https://csnbbs.com/thread-896895.html
03-25-2020 12:09 PM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 12:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Let's see..
Italy has 69,176 confirmed cases..with 6,820 deaths.
China has 81,661 confirmed cases.. with 3,285 deaths
Spain has 47,610 confirmed cases.. with 3,434 deaths.

The US has 55,568 confirmed cases.. with 809 deaths..

I'd say we done something right.. But hey Orange Man Bad.

It is really hard to do an accurate comparison as timing is waaay different.

Those other three countries are much farther along the maturity time line than the US. Also we were later to the game in testing so our number of cases is escalating more quickly now the the number of tests are ramping up. In another 30 days the comparison of the percentages will be more meaningful and relevant.
03-25-2020 12:13 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 12:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Let's see..
Italy has 69,176 confirmed cases..with 6,820 deaths.
China has 81,661 confirmed cases.. with 3,285 deaths
Spain has 47,610 confirmed cases.. with 3,434 deaths.

The US has 55,568 confirmed cases.. with 809 deaths..

I'd say we done something right.. But hey Orange Man Bad.

While I think Trump has done a pretty good job---I wouldnt use these numbers as the criteria of a "good" job. We are probably going to pass everyone before this is over. Of course, we are larger than all those nations other than China---and we cant really use the same methods China used (assuming you can believe the Chinese numbers---which I dont).
03-25-2020 12:24 PM
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Eagleaidaholic Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 12:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Let's see..
Italy has 69,176 confirmed cases..with 6,820 deaths.
China has 81,661 confirmed cases.. with 3,285 deaths
Spain has 47,610 confirmed cases.. with 3,434 deaths.

The US has 55,568 confirmed cases.. with 809 deaths..

I'd say we done something right.. But hey Orange Man Bad.

While I think Trump has done a pretty good job---I wouldnt use these numbers as the criteria of a "good" job. We are probably going to pass everyone before this is over. Of course, we are larger than all those nations other than China---and we cant really use the same methods China used (assuming you can believe the Chinese numbers---which I dont).

Pass everyone in what? and who decides when "this is over"?
03-25-2020 12:27 PM
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UofMstateU Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 12:27 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Let's see..
Italy has 69,176 confirmed cases..with 6,820 deaths.
China has 81,661 confirmed cases.. with 3,285 deaths
Spain has 47,610 confirmed cases.. with 3,434 deaths.

The US has 55,568 confirmed cases.. with 809 deaths..

I'd say we done something right.. But hey Orange Man Bad.

While I think Trump has done a pretty good job---I wouldnt use these numbers as the criteria of a "good" job. We are probably going to pass everyone before this is over. Of course, we are larger than all those nations other than China---and we cant really use the same methods China used (assuming you can believe the Chinese numbers---which I dont).

Pass everyone in what? and who decides when "this is over"?

Also perspective; Obama didnt call a national emergency for the swine flu until 3 times as many americans had died from it as have died in Italy so far due to Coronavirus.
03-25-2020 12:45 PM
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UofMstateU Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
Let's try this graph out for size.

[Image: ET9j5xzWoAUzcjr?format=png&name=900x900]
03-25-2020 12:51 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 12:51 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Let's try this graph out for size.

[Image: ET9j5xzWoAUzcjr?format=png&name=900x900]

That's more relevant. A lot more relevant.
03-25-2020 01:12 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 12:45 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:27 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Let's see..
Italy has 69,176 confirmed cases..with 6,820 deaths.
China has 81,661 confirmed cases.. with 3,285 deaths
Spain has 47,610 confirmed cases.. with 3,434 deaths.

The US has 55,568 confirmed cases.. with 809 deaths..

I'd say we done something right.. But hey Orange Man Bad.

While I think Trump has done a pretty good job---I wouldnt use these numbers as the criteria of a "good" job. We are probably going to pass everyone before this is over. Of course, we are larger than all those nations other than China---and we cant really use the same methods China used (assuming you can believe the Chinese numbers---which I dont).

Pass everyone in what? and who decides when "this is over"?

Also perspective; Obama didnt call a national emergency for the swine flu until 3 times as many americans had died from it as have died in Italy so far due to Coronavirus.

And?

Quote:Obama’s acting director of health and human services declared H1N1 a public health emergency on April 26, 2009.

That was when only 20 cases of H1N1 — and no deaths — around the country had been confirmed.

Two days later, the administration made an initial funding request for H1N1 to Congress. Eventually $7.65 billion was allocated for a vaccine and other measures.

H1N1 was declared a pandemic by the World Health Organization on June 11, 2009.

In other words, the Obama administration’s public health emergency declaration came more than six weeks before the pandemic designation.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...th-emerge/

Further...

Quote:From First Case to Approved Test: Two Weeks
Though the H1N1 virus had begun spreading in Mexico, the first case in the United States was detected on April 15, 2009, in a 10-year-old patient in California. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection in an 8-year-old also living in California. Within one week, the CDC had activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it had identified as an emerging public health threat.

Before the end of April, the government had declared a public health emergency and started releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. “The real-time PCR test developed by CDC was cleared for use by diagnostic laboratories by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on April 28, 2009, less than two weeks after identification of the new pandemic virus,” the CDC notes on its website.

Sebelius remembers that date well. It was the day she was sworn in as HHS secretary.

The test developed by the CDC was created quickly. It was accurate. And it was shared with governments around the world, she said. “The capacity of CDC at that point to make and develop and quickly turn out a test was vastly different than what we saw occurring” with the coronavirus, Sebelius said.

In an interview, Dr. Tom Frieden, who was CDC director under Obama, said testing for H1N1 and the United States’ willingness to share its test with other countries was a success. “I traveled all over the world and for years afterward even very hostile governments were saying thank you for sending it to us.”

Coronavirus testing, on the other hand, remains mired in delays. Though the first person in the United States was confirmed to have the virus on Jan. 20, a series of problems have kept testing out of reach for many patients with telltale symptoms of the virus. The CDC designed a flawed test for COVID-19, then it took weeks to figure out a fix so state and local labs could use it, ProPublica found. Trump said on March 6 that “anybody who wants a test gets a test,” but many doctors, patients and public health leaders say that is not the case.
https://www.propublica.org/article/no-pr...flu-either
03-25-2020 01:14 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
If we kick this thing to the curb in the next 2-4 weeks, Trump's popularity will go higher. With warmer weather coming, and with the promise of the chloroquine/z-pack combination, we may just get there.
03-25-2020 01:19 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 12:27 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Let's see..
Italy has 69,176 confirmed cases..with 6,820 deaths.
China has 81,661 confirmed cases.. with 3,285 deaths
Spain has 47,610 confirmed cases.. with 3,434 deaths.

The US has 55,568 confirmed cases.. with 809 deaths..

I'd say we done something right.. But hey Orange Man Bad.

While I think Trump has done a pretty good job---I wouldnt use these numbers as the criteria of a "good" job. We are probably going to pass everyone before this is over. Of course, we are larger than all those nations other than China---and we cant really use the same methods China used (assuming you can believe the Chinese numbers---which I dont).

Pass everyone in what? and who decides when "this is over"?

We are already the #3 nation in the world in total infections. At this rate, we will have more cases than any other nation within a week or so. Most of the free nations will have trouble controlling it---mainly becasue we cant use the same methods that China did and we didnt have the SARS experience that allowed many eastern nations to keep the infection maintained in the containment phase. Once it gets into the general community spread phase---its just a function of population after that. Not a whole lot you can do about it other than moderate how long it takes to infect a large portion of the population.
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2020 01:23 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-25-2020 01:22 PM
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TripleA Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 01:12 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:51 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Let's try this graph out for size.

[Image: ET9j5xzWoAUzcjr?format=png&name=900x900]

That's more relevant. A lot more relevant.

Yep. I've been griping that the raw numbers are BS b/c we have a bigger population than all but China.
03-25-2020 02:05 PM
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TripleA Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 01:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:27 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Let's see..
Italy has 69,176 confirmed cases..with 6,820 deaths.
China has 81,661 confirmed cases.. with 3,285 deaths
Spain has 47,610 confirmed cases.. with 3,434 deaths.

The US has 55,568 confirmed cases.. with 809 deaths..

I'd say we done something right.. But hey Orange Man Bad.

While I think Trump has done a pretty good job---I wouldnt use these numbers as the criteria of a "good" job. We are probably going to pass everyone before this is over. Of course, we are larger than all those nations other than China---and we cant really use the same methods China used (assuming you can believe the Chinese numbers---which I dont).

Pass everyone in what? and who decides when "this is over"?

We are already the #3 nation in the world in total infections. At this rate, we will have more cases than any other nation within a week or so. Most of the free nations will have trouble controlling it---mainly becasue we cant use the same methods that China did and we didnt have the SARS experience that allowed many eastern nations to keep the infection maintained in the containment phase. Once it gets into the general community spread phase---its just a function of population after that. Not a whole lot you can do about it other than moderate how long it takes to infect a large portion of the population.

Like I said, the # of infections are irrelevant. You have to go on # of infections (and deaths) per million people. WAY different.
03-25-2020 02:06 PM
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UofMstateU Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 01:14 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:45 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:27 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Let's see..
Italy has 69,176 confirmed cases..with 6,820 deaths.
China has 81,661 confirmed cases.. with 3,285 deaths
Spain has 47,610 confirmed cases.. with 3,434 deaths.

The US has 55,568 confirmed cases.. with 809 deaths..

I'd say we done something right.. But hey Orange Man Bad.

While I think Trump has done a pretty good job---I wouldnt use these numbers as the criteria of a "good" job. We are probably going to pass everyone before this is over. Of course, we are larger than all those nations other than China---and we cant really use the same methods China used (assuming you can believe the Chinese numbers---which I dont).

Pass everyone in what? and who decides when "this is over"?

Also perspective; Obama didnt call a national emergency for the swine flu until 3 times as many americans had died from it as have died in Italy so far due to Coronavirus.

And?

Quote:Obama’s acting director of health and human services declared H1N1 a public health emergency on April 26, 2009.

That was when only 20 cases of H1N1 — and no deaths — around the country had been confirmed.

Two days later, the administration made an initial funding request for H1N1 to Congress. Eventually $7.65 billion was allocated for a vaccine and other measures.

H1N1 was declared a pandemic by the World Health Organization on June 11, 2009.

In other words, the Obama administration’s public health emergency declaration came more than six weeks before the pandemic designation.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...th-emerge/

Further...

Quote:From First Case to Approved Test: Two Weeks
Though the H1N1 virus had begun spreading in Mexico, the first case in the United States was detected on April 15, 2009, in a 10-year-old patient in California. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection in an 8-year-old also living in California. Within one week, the CDC had activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it had identified as an emerging public health threat.

Before the end of April, the government had declared a public health emergency and started releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. “The real-time PCR test developed by CDC was cleared for use by diagnostic laboratories by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on April 28, 2009, less than two weeks after identification of the new pandemic virus,” the CDC notes on its website.

Sebelius remembers that date well. It was the day she was sworn in as HHS secretary.

The test developed by the CDC was created quickly. It was accurate. And it was shared with governments around the world, she said. “The capacity of CDC at that point to make and develop and quickly turn out a test was vastly different than what we saw occurring” with the coronavirus, Sebelius said.

In an interview, Dr. Tom Frieden, who was CDC director under Obama, said testing for H1N1 and the United States’ willingness to share its test with other countries was a success. “I traveled all over the world and for years afterward even very hostile governments were saying thank you for sending it to us.”

Coronavirus testing, on the other hand, remains mired in delays. Though the first person in the United States was confirmed to have the virus on Jan. 20, a series of problems have kept testing out of reach for many patients with telltale symptoms of the virus. The CDC designed a flawed test for COVID-19, then it took weeks to figure out a fix so state and local labs could use it, ProPublica found. Trump said on March 6 that “anybody who wants a test gets a test,” but many doctors, patients and public health leaders say that is not the case.
https://www.propublica.org/article/no-pr...flu-either

All Obamas public health emergency did was to release the stockpiles of tamiflu. Obama then proceeds to watch the stockpiles of N95 masks get depleted, and did nothing. Just another one of Oblunders idiotic messes that this president has had to clean up. I swear, Obama was like a f*ing 6 week old puppy that wasnt paper trained.
03-25-2020 02:30 PM
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TigersOhMy Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 02:06 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 01:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:27 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Let's see..
Italy has 69,176 confirmed cases..with 6,820 deaths.
China has 81,661 confirmed cases.. with 3,285 deaths
Spain has 47,610 confirmed cases.. with 3,434 deaths.

The US has 55,568 confirmed cases.. with 809 deaths..

I'd say we done something right.. But hey Orange Man Bad.

While I think Trump has done a pretty good job---I wouldnt use these numbers as the criteria of a "good" job. We are probably going to pass everyone before this is over. Of course, we are larger than all those nations other than China---and we cant really use the same methods China used (assuming you can believe the Chinese numbers---which I dont).

Pass everyone in what? and who decides when "this is over"?

We are already the #3 nation in the world in total infections. At this rate, we will have more cases than any other nation within a week or so. Most of the free nations will have trouble controlling it---mainly becasue we cant use the same methods that China did and we didnt have the SARS experience that allowed many eastern nations to keep the infection maintained in the containment phase. Once it gets into the general community spread phase---its just a function of population after that. Not a whole lot you can do about it other than moderate how long it takes to infect a large portion of the population.

Like I said, the # of infections are irrelevant. You have to go on # of infections (and deaths) per million people. WAY different.

in which case, if you sort by cases/million, we are 35th, and if you sort deaths/million, we are 20th.
03-25-2020 02:32 PM
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Eagleaidaholic Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 01:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:27 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Let's see..
Italy has 69,176 confirmed cases..with 6,820 deaths.
China has 81,661 confirmed cases.. with 3,285 deaths
Spain has 47,610 confirmed cases.. with 3,434 deaths.

The US has 55,568 confirmed cases.. with 809 deaths..

I'd say we done something right.. But hey Orange Man Bad.

While I think Trump has done a pretty good job---I wouldnt use these numbers as the criteria of a "good" job. We are probably going to pass everyone before this is over. Of course, we are larger than all those nations other than China---and we cant really use the same methods China used (assuming you can believe the Chinese numbers---which I dont).

Pass everyone in what? and who decides when "this is over"?

We are already the #3 nation in the world in total infections. At this rate, we will have more cases than any other nation within a week or so. Most of the free nations will have trouble controlling it---mainly becasue we cant use the same methods that China did and we didnt have the SARS experience that allowed many eastern nations to keep the infection maintained in the containment phase. Once it gets into the general community spread phase---its just a function of population after that. Not a whole lot you can do about it other than moderate how long it takes to infect a large portion of the population.
We are literally testing people that have no symptoms that test positive and never have symptoms. Positive cases mean nothing. Serious cases and deaths are the only relevant numbers.
03-25-2020 03:02 PM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
The other thing with this whole testing thing is that it is presented in such a way as to suggest that one you test negative you are all set.

You could literally walk out of the the test area and grab a doorknob and then get infected..... Getting tested doesn't change the fact that practicing social distancing and (what should be) good common sense Hygiene are the only ways to prevent spreading.
03-25-2020 03:17 PM
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TigersOhMy Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 03:17 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  The other thing with this whole testing thing is that it is presented in such a way as to suggest that one you test negative you are all set.

You could literally walk out of the the test area and grab a doorknob and then get infected..... Getting tested doesn't change the fact that practicing social distancing and (what should be) good common sense Hygiene are the only ways to prevent spreading.

it is the same mindset re: STD's. test me so I can be irresponsible.
03-25-2020 03:25 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 03:17 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  The other thing with this whole testing thing is that it is presented in such a way as to suggest that one you test negative you are all set.

You could literally walk out of the the test area and grab a doorknob and then get infected..... Getting tested doesn't change the fact that practicing social distancing and (what should be) good common sense Hygiene are the only ways to prevent spreading.

Exactly. The whining about testing is silly. We have ramped up and have tested more people in the last 3 days than Korea tested in total. We have huge resources---but like an aircraft carrier---its not super nimble. Once we get our testing industry tooled up and rolling in the right direction---it blows everyone else in the world away.
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2020 03:38 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-25-2020 03:37 PM
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stxrunner Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Trump wasted time and that will kill Americans
(03-25-2020 03:02 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 01:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:27 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 12:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Let's see..
Italy has 69,176 confirmed cases..with 6,820 deaths.
China has 81,661 confirmed cases.. with 3,285 deaths
Spain has 47,610 confirmed cases.. with 3,434 deaths.

The US has 55,568 confirmed cases.. with 809 deaths..

I'd say we done something right.. But hey Orange Man Bad.

While I think Trump has done a pretty good job---I wouldnt use these numbers as the criteria of a "good" job. We are probably going to pass everyone before this is over. Of course, we are larger than all those nations other than China---and we cant really use the same methods China used (assuming you can believe the Chinese numbers---which I dont).

Pass everyone in what? and who decides when "this is over"?

We are already the #3 nation in the world in total infections. At this rate, we will have more cases than any other nation within a week or so. Most of the free nations will have trouble controlling it---mainly becasue we cant use the same methods that China did and we didnt have the SARS experience that allowed many eastern nations to keep the infection maintained in the containment phase. Once it gets into the general community spread phase---its just a function of population after that. Not a whole lot you can do about it other than moderate how long it takes to infect a large portion of the population.
We are literally testing people that have no symptoms that test positive and never have symptoms. Positive cases mean nothing. Serious cases and deaths are the only relevant numbers.

I would disagree. Positive cases do mean something, as finding out you are positive allows you to isolate and prevent further spread.

In the stats it matters because it shows how fast this is spreading, and allows us to monitor against our health care system capacity assuming we will have a certain % of serious cases. Allows you to identify clusters as well.

A strong (or even moderate) testing program would have been EXTREMELY useful at the start of this, but that's obviously water under the bridge. South Korea handled this wonderfully and allowed it to have a minimal impact on their population as their test and trace program worked wonders to help minimize the effect on their economy as well.
03-25-2020 03:47 PM
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