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Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
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2Buck Offline
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Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
Did someone already post this somewhere? Love seeing JMU in the spotlight under circumstances like this...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/education/h...s-n1145171
03-23-2020 11:28 AM
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ParentofJMUMRDs Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
I seem to recall that this was posted a few months back.

Brian
03-23-2020 01:26 PM
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19Duke97 Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
Some of this is due to Virginia's adherence to the accounting rules, many other schools can bury these fees deeper. What is more interesting is how much we spend on athletics in comparison to our peers, G5 and P5 - we are clearly spending G5 money. I believe this has all been noted in other threads however.
03-23-2020 01:38 PM
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2Buck Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-23-2020 01:38 PM)19Duke97 Wrote:  Some of this is due to Virginia's adherence to the accounting rules, many other schools can bury these fees deeper. What is more interesting is how much we spend on athletics in comparison to our peers, G5 and P5 - we are clearly spending G5 money. I believe this has all been noted in other threads however.

Yeah, we all know that, but the problem is when a media piece like this runs with JMU front and center it looks horrible for the school. Most people are going to know or research how VA does things differently, and obviously the way the journalist played it up, he/she didn't do due diligence either. Just bad form.
03-23-2020 01:44 PM
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Purple Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
I posted something related a few days ago regarding our El Cheapo basketball hire. I calculated using the student athletic fees, which is 3/4 of our athletic budget, that our athletic budget is considerably more than $52 million if the figures I had were accurate.
03-23-2020 04:22 PM
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Dukeman2 Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
The economics of FBS football are much better than FCS football per the JMU study.

James Madison FBS Athletics Feasibility Study:

• “the financial data indicates that the athletics generated revenue will grow at a larger percentage than expense with a move to an FBS conference” (Page VII-50)

• “this will decrease the reliance on student fees” (Page VII – 50)

Appalachian State Final Report of the Athletics Feasibility Committee:

• “Data shows that FBS athletic departments use a substantially smaller percentage of their total spending from student fees than those at FCS level”

• “the committee believes that the best opportunity for success is in a conference of public universities that share similar missions and support for athletics”
03-23-2020 05:23 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-23-2020 05:23 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  The economics of FBS football are much better than FCS football per the JMU study.

James Madison FBS Athletics Feasibility Study:

• “the financial data indicates that the athletics generated revenue will grow at a larger percentage than expense with a move to an FBS conference” (Page VII-50)

• “this will decrease the reliance on student fees” (Page VII – 50)

Appalachian State Final Report of the Athletics Feasibility Committee:

• “Data shows that FBS athletic departments use a substantially smaller percentage of their total spending from student fees than those at FCS level”

• “the committee believes that the best opportunity for success is in a conference of public universities that share similar missions and support for athletics”

Back at it again. 07-coffee3

That study is waaaay obsolete and the numbers once suspect, are now completely unusable. And the “data” that show FBS athletic departments use a smaller % of student fees to support their programs than FCS level programs is a giant “duh” when TV and other media dollars are sucked up by FBS programs (especially, and increasingly so, at the P5 level). If you haven’t taken note, money for TV contracts for G5 programs have taken a huge hit.

If anything, G5 programs are hemorrhaging $$$ and only the P5s can support their athletic programs without student fees. Because JMU is not joining a P5 conference in our lifetimes, prepare to open your checkbook if you want FBS and/or to reduce the level of student fees.
03-23-2020 05:50 PM
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-23-2020 05:23 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  The economics of FBS football are much better than FCS football per the JMU study.

James Madison FBS Athletics Feasibility Study:

• “the financial data indicates that the athletics generated revenue will grow at a larger percentage than expense with a move to an FBS conference” (Page VII-50)

• “this will decrease the reliance on student fees” (Page VII – 50)

Appalachian State Final Report of the Athletics Feasibility Committee:

• “Data shows that FBS athletic departments use a substantially smaller percentage of their total spending from student fees than those at FCS level”

• “the committee believes that the best opportunity for success is in a conference of public universities that share similar missions and support for athletics”

Several interesting thoughts on this...

1. Weird that you use quotes but don’t actually quote the exact words from the report.

2. The Carr report made projections for revenue and percentage of student fee reliance based on staying in the CAA and based on a move to an FBS conference. JMU’s current numbers are actually much closer to their FBS projections than their CAA projections.

3. The fact that almost all of the top athletic fee offenders are Virginia universities should be a red flag for a good journalist that maybe something is going on that’s not apparent from a superficial review of numbers. I get that it’s hard to do an apples to apples comparison between states, but you should at least acknowledge that this is an issue.
03-23-2020 09:31 PM
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Hart Foundation Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
While Dukeman is recycling old posts again he does at least point the arrow to some good discussion topics.
The NCAA has a standard template for reporting so it is pretty easy to decipher where the money comes from.
For App State, add their student fees and institutional/government support to get $22.5 million. That number is $41.6 million for JMU.
Add up ticket sales, game guarantees, media rights, NCAA payouts, donations, corporate sponsorship, and other to get $14.4 million for App State and $10 million for JMU.

JMU actually has more ticket revenue than App State across the athletics department; however, App State wins the financial game because they received significant bumps in game guarantees, media rights, NCAA payouts, donations, and corporate sponsorships all of which are tied to being a FBS program. So while the Carr report is outdated, the conclusions still hold true for a peer school like App State which left FCS 6 years ago.

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org...he_money-1
03-23-2020 10:42 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-23-2020 11:28 AM)2Buck Wrote:  Did someone already post this somewhere? Love seeing JMU in the spotlight under circumstances like this...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/education/h...s-n1145171

This is the #1 reason I'm so opinionated on the seating for students at both football and basketball games. The students are the biggest contributors to JMU athletics and need to be treated as such. In addition, I couldn't care less if everyone of them arrive at the gate right at KO, they should be expedited into the stadium even if that means I have a longer line to stand in. We are nothing without the students.
03-23-2020 11:30 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-23-2020 11:30 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(03-23-2020 11:28 AM)2Buck Wrote:  Did someone already post this somewhere? Love seeing JMU in the spotlight under circumstances like this...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/education/h...s-n1145171

This is the #1 reason I'm so opinionated on the seating for students at both football and basketball games. The students are the biggest contributors to JMU athletics and need to be treated as such. In addition, I couldn't care less if everyone of them arrive at the gate right at KO, they should be expedited into the stadium even if that means I have a longer line to stand in. We are nothing without the students.

I agree.
03-24-2020 06:14 AM
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Dukeman2 Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
We have to be grounded in facts to make the best decisions.

The economics of FBS have improved since the feasibility report largely because of the FBS playoff distributions.

College Football Playoff Money Distributions 2018-2019

Atlantic Coast Conference $ 71,472,879
Big Ten Conference $ 64,601,524
Big 12 Conference $ 71,827,990
American Athletic Conference $ 24,554,753
Conference USA $ 15,604,838
Mid-American Conference $ 14,129,881
Mountain West Conference $ 20,029,711
Pac-12 Conference $ 64,088,273
Southeastern Conference $ 83,620,675
Sun Belt Conference $ 17,079,796
Big Sky Conference $ 263,218
Big South Conference $ 263,218
Colonial Conference $ 263,218
Mid-Eastern Conference $ 263,218
Missouri Valley Conference $ 263,218
Ohio Valley Conference $ 263,218
Southern Conference $ 263,218
Southland Conference $ 263,218
Southwestern Athletic Conference $ 263,218
Patriot League $ 263,218
Brigham Young University $ 310,396
University of Massachusetts $ 310,396
Notre Dame University $ 11,238,625
U.S. Military Academy $ 310,396
Liberty University $ 310,396
New Mexico State University $ 310,396
Total CFP Distribution $ 462,433,107
03-24-2020 06:51 AM
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Top Dawg Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-23-2020 05:23 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  The economics of FBS football are much better than FCS football per the JMU study.

James Madison FBS Athletics Feasibility Study:

• “the financial data indicates that the athletics generated revenue will grow at a larger percentage than expense with a move to an FBS conference” (Page VII-50)

• “this will decrease the reliance on student fees” (Page VII – 50)

Appalachian State Final Report of the Athletics Feasibility Committee:

• “Data shows that FBS athletic departments use a substantially smaller percentage of their total spending from student fees than those at FCS level”

• “the committee believes that the best opportunity for success is in a conference of public universities that share similar missions and support for athletics”

While the study showed a decrease in the percentage of student fees compared to the entire athletic budget, it also showed an increase in the actual amount of student fees. So that will just make the students fees even larger!
03-24-2020 07:38 AM
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Longhorn Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-24-2020 06:51 AM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  We have to be grounded in facts to make the best decisions.

The economics of FBS have improved since the feasibility report largely because of the FBS playoff distributions.

College Football Playoff Money Distributions 2018-2019

Atlantic Coast Conference $ 71,472,879
Big Ten Conference $ 64,601,524
Big 12 Conference $ 71,827,990
American Athletic Conference $ 24,554,753
Conference USA $ 15,604,838
Mid-American Conference $ 14,129,881
Mountain West Conference $ 20,029,711
Pac-12 Conference $ 64,088,273
Southeastern Conference $ 83,620,675
Sun Belt Conference $ 17,079,796
Big Sky Conference $ 263,218
Big South Conference $ 263,218
Colonial Conference $ 263,218
Mid-Eastern Conference $ 263,218
Missouri Valley Conference $ 263,218
Ohio Valley Conference $ 263,218
Southern Conference $ 263,218
Southland Conference $ 263,218
Southwestern Athletic Conference $ 263,218
Patriot League $ 263,218
Brigham Young University $ 310,396
University of Massachusetts $ 310,396
Notre Dame University $ 11,238,625
U.S. Military Academy $ 310,396
Liberty University $ 310,396
New Mexico State University $ 310,396
Total CFP Distribution $ 462,433,107

This is such a crap argument. In essence you’re arguing that for the bottom-feeding crumbs given G5 conferences (not much more than an average of $1 mil per) you’re going to ramp up JMU spending by $4-5 million per year to cover the costs of competing at the FBS level. Where is that extra $3-4 mil (and counting) going to come from? Not students, because the Cox Bill shut down that revenue stream. So, while in theory, the % of student fees used to support JMU athletics goes down, the overall costs continue to rise, which means more fund raising and higher ticket prices, or less money to be spent being competitive (which is a fools errand because the P5s will never willingly share their pot of gold).
03-24-2020 07:48 AM
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POTUS#4 Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-24-2020 07:38 AM)Top Dawg Wrote:  
(03-23-2020 05:23 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  The economics of FBS football are much better than FCS football per the JMU study.
...

While the study showed a decrease in the percentage of student fees compared to the entire athletic budget, it also showed an increase in the actual amount of student fees. So that will just make the students fees even larger!

This is the point that he glosses over every time he cherry picks "quotes." For those students concerned abut their student fee increasing, I don't think it will be much comfort to hear "yeah, but your fees now make up a smaller percentage of the total athletic budget..."

When you consider the conferences that JMU would realistically be invited to join, and look at the revenue/expenditure trends for those conferences, I'm not sure the money issue is even a significant incentive/disincentive making the move to FBS. I'm sure it wouldn't be a budgetary wash, but JMU could no doubt make the numbers work either way. Other issues seem more important to me, when it comes time to make the move, or not.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2020 09:43 AM by POTUS#4.)
03-24-2020 09:41 AM
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Dukeman2 Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-23-2020 05:50 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(03-23-2020 05:23 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  The economics of FBS football are much better than FCS football per the JMU study.

James Madison FBS Athletics Feasibility Study:

• “the financial data indicates that the athletics generated revenue will grow at a larger percentage than expense with a move to an FBS conference” (Page VII-50)

• “this will decrease the reliance on student fees” (Page VII – 50)

Appalachian State Final Report of the Athletics Feasibility Committee:

• “Data shows that FBS athletic departments use a substantially smaller percentage of their total spending from student fees than those at FCS level”

• “the committee believes that the best opportunity for success is in a conference of public universities that share similar missions and support for athletics”

Back at it again. 07-coffee3

That study is waaaay obsolete and the numbers once suspect, are now completely unusable. And the “data” that show FBS athletic departments use a smaller % of student fees to support their programs than FCS level programs is a giant “duh” when TV and other media dollars are sucked up by FBS programs (especially, and increasingly so, at the P5 level). If you haven’t taken note, money for TV contracts for G5 programs have taken a huge hit.

If anything, G5 programs are hemorrhaging $$$ and only the P5s can support their athletic programs without student fees. Because JMU is not joining a P5 conference in our lifetimes, prepare to open your checkbook if you want FBS and/or to reduce the level of student fees.

If you do not like percentages Longhorn - lets look at hard numbers

Student fees paid to athletics:

- Appalachian State $12.5m
- Old Dominion $28.0m
- James Madison $38.0m (highest in country)

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org...he_money-1
03-24-2020 04:46 PM
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Purplehazed Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
State university presidents are over paid so I can carve out those taxes I pay, yes?
03-24-2020 05:16 PM
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Top Dawg Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-24-2020 04:46 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  
(03-23-2020 05:50 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(03-23-2020 05:23 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  The economics of FBS football are much better than FCS football per the JMU study.

James Madison FBS Athletics Feasibility Study:

• “the financial data indicates that the athletics generated revenue will grow at a larger percentage than expense with a move to an FBS conference” (Page VII-50)

• “this will decrease the reliance on student fees” (Page VII – 50)

Appalachian State Final Report of the Athletics Feasibility Committee:

• “Data shows that FBS athletic departments use a substantially smaller percentage of their total spending from student fees than those at FCS level”

• “the committee believes that the best opportunity for success is in a conference of public universities that share similar missions and support for athletics”

Back at it again. 07-coffee3

That study is waaaay obsolete and the numbers once suspect, are now completely unusable. And the “data” that show FBS athletic departments use a smaller % of student fees to support their programs than FCS level programs is a giant “duh” when TV and other media dollars are sucked up by FBS programs (especially, and increasingly so, at the P5 level). If you haven’t taken note, money for TV contracts for G5 programs have taken a huge hit.

If anything, G5 programs are hemorrhaging $$$ and only the P5s can support their athletic programs without student fees. Because JMU is not joining a P5 conference in our lifetimes, prepare to open your checkbook if you want FBS and/or to reduce the level of student fees.

If you do not like percentages Longhorn - lets look at hard numbers

Student fees paid to athletics:

- Appalachian State $12.5m
- Old Dominion $28.0m
- James Madison $38.0m (highest in country)

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org...he_money-1

Yes and going FBS will only increase that number (according to the study you like to quote). So what is your point?
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2020 06:21 PM by Top Dawg.)
03-24-2020 06:20 PM
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Dukeman2 Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
Virginia Pilot 1/16/18

"The increase in fundraising comes at a key time for ODU, which is under a state mandate to fund no more than 55 percent of its athletic budget with student fees. ODU did not raise student fees last year and then reduced the fees allocated to athletics by nearly $900,000.

Taxpayer dollars can't be spent on athletics in Virginia."
03-24-2020 06:46 PM
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
ODU raised a record $16.1 million in 2018

By Harry Minium

The prospect of a renovated S.B. Ballard football stadium enticed Old Dominion University athletic boosters to donate money in record amounts in 2018.

The Old Dominion Athletic Foundation, ODU’s athletic fundraising organization, raised a record $16.1 million last year, said Jena Virga, senior associate athletic director.

That’s more than the $12.3 million ODAF raised in 2017 and far more than the $9.6 million raised in 2016, Virga said.
The 2018 total is impressive among mid-major schools.
For instance, James Madison University, which has a Football Championship Subdivision program but is otherwise comparable to ODU, raised $4.5 million in 2017-2018 school year.

The General Assembly passed a law in 2015 intended to reduce the percentage of student fees being used to pay for athletics. ODU was given 10 years to get down to 55 percent.

Broderick challenged Athletic Director Wood Selig and ODAF officials at the time to broaden the fundraising base. ODU has more than doubled its fundraising since then.
Selig said ODU met the 55 percent requirement last school year. ODU is renovating Ballard Stadium without raising student fees.
“Our fundraisers have done an amazing job,” Selig said.

In one of the biggest shockers in college football history, the Monarchs upended No. 13 Virginia Tech in September. The men’s basketball team won at No. 25 Syracuse in December.

ODU’s Olympic sports also did well, with men’s soccer team (a 1-1 tie with No. 1 North Carolina), women’s field hockey (2-1 upset victory at No. 8 Virginia) and wrestling (30-10 upset at No. 11 Northwestern) also having success against Power 5 opponents.
“We want to become a nationally prominent program, and when you have victories against Virginia Tech and Syracuse, it shows our vision can become a reality,” Virga said. “We’re so close, and sometimes resources can make all the difference.”
ODU athletes also had a record year in the classroom, according to a letter Virga sent to ODAF members. In the 2017-2018 school year, more than 35 percent of athletes were on the dean’s list and the cumulative grade-point average for athletes was 3.03, the best ever, she wrote.
“We’re proud of our competitive success on the field,” Virga said. “But we’re most proud of our academic success.”
ODAF is also ahead of schedule on a $40 million fundraising campaign that was part of an overall, $250 million campaign announced two years ago by Broderick.
Turner says ODU has raised $30 million in a little more than two years
03-24-2020 07:00 PM
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