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Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
Dukeman2 is an ODU troll.
03-24-2020 08:06 PM
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HMK Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
https://schev.edu/docs/default-source/tu...ht2018.pdf
According to SCHEV, the total cost of attending JMU is $22,500 while the average for the Virginia state's public universities is $24,000.

It would seem to me the article should have been written about why the total cost at UVA is over $5,000 more than JMU. UVA has a 3 Billion dollar endowment and being a P5 sports school their sports program is nearly self supporting. Why is their total cost so high?
03-24-2020 08:33 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-24-2020 08:33 PM)HMK Wrote:  https://schev.edu/docs/default-source/tu...ht2018.pdf
According to SCHEV, the total cost of attending JMU is $22,500 while the average for the Virginia state's public universities is $24,000.

It would seem to me the article should have been written about why the total cost at UVA is over $5,000 more than JMU. UVA has a 3 Billion dollar endowment and being a P5 sports school their sports program is nearly self supporting. Why is their total cost so high?

Excellent point!
03-25-2020 01:56 AM
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
HMK:

Don’t cloud Dukeman’s argument with facts. He likes to find dated statistics that support his argument rather than see the big picture as your post does.

The fact is that over the years Dr. Carrier chose to raise the student fees instead of tuition because doing so gave him more flexibility in how he used the funds. How tuition funds are spent were controlled by the state historically. The Cox bill was implemented to stop schools from diverting more of the cost of attendance to the student fee bucket as the state wanted to maintain some level of control over how funds were spent.

Another important point is that student fees also pay for things like the rec center and other student services. That is missed in all this discussion about athletics.
03-25-2020 07:35 AM
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-24-2020 07:00 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  ODU raised a record $16.1 million in 2018

By Harry Minium

The prospect of a renovated S.B. Ballard football stadium enticed Old Dominion University athletic boosters to donate money in record amounts in 2018.

The Old Dominion Athletic Foundation, ODU’s athletic fundraising organization, raised a record $16.1 million last year, said Jena Virga, senior associate athletic director.

That’s more than the $12.3 million ODAF raised in 2017 and far more than the $9.6 million raised in 2016, Virga said.
The 2018 total is impressive among mid-major schools.
For instance, James Madison University, which has a Football Championship Subdivision program but is otherwise comparable to ODU, raised $4.5 million in 2017-2018 school year.

The General Assembly passed a law in 2015 intended to reduce the percentage of student fees being used to pay for athletics. ODU was given 10 years to get down to 55 percent.

Broderick challenged Athletic Director Wood Selig and ODAF officials at the time to broaden the fundraising base. ODU has more than doubled its fundraising since then.
Selig said ODU met the 55 percent requirement last school year. ODU is renovating Ballard Stadium without raising student fees.
“Our fundraisers have done an amazing job,” Selig said.

In one of the biggest shockers in college football history, the Monarchs upended No. 13 Virginia Tech in September. The men’s basketball team won at No. 25 Syracuse in December.

ODU’s Olympic sports also did well, with men’s soccer team (a 1-1 tie with No. 1 North Carolina), women’s field hockey (2-1 upset victory at No. 8 Virginia) and wrestling (30-10 upset at No. 11 Northwestern) also having success against Power 5 opponents.
“We want to become a nationally prominent program, and when you have victories against Virginia Tech and Syracuse, it shows our vision can become a reality,” Virga said. “We’re so close, and sometimes resources can make all the difference.”
ODU athletes also had a record year in the classroom, according to a letter Virga sent to ODAF members. In the 2017-2018 school year, more than 35 percent of athletes were on the dean’s list and the cumulative grade-point average for athletes was 3.03, the best ever, she wrote.
“We’re proud of our competitive success on the field,” Virga said. “But we’re most proud of our academic success.”
ODAF is also ahead of schedule on a $40 million fundraising campaign that was part of an overall, $250 million campaign announced two years ago by Broderick.
Turner says ODU has raised $30 million in a little more than two years

https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...story.html


By ED MILLER
THE VIRGINIAN-PILOT |
NOV 26, 2019

Other than a worrisome performance on the field, opening night at Old Dominion’s reconstructed S.B. Ballard Stadium was a smash. A sellout crowd of 21,944 poured in on a warm August night for a look at the $70 million transformation of the former Foreman Field as the Monarchs hosted Norfolk State.

“The Norfolk State game was as full as you can get it,” said Jason Chandler, ODU’s associate athletic director for revenue and strategic marketing.

Since then, longtime fan Walter Evans of Virginia Beach has sat in section 111 on the stadium’s west side and watched the crowds dwindle, to under 10,000 for the most recent home game. Evans and his wife, Vickie, have had four season tickets since ODU began playing in 2009. When S.B. Ballard Stadium was being built, on an accelerated, 9-month timetable last off-season, they would drive to a nearby parking deck and watch the progress.

“We got a big kick out of that,” he said. “It’s a shame they put so much time and effort into it. Now they have this beautiful facility and the team’s not very good and people aren’t coming.
03-25-2020 07:42 AM
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Wear Purple Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-25-2020 07:42 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  “It’s a shame they put so much time and effort into it. Now they have this beautiful facility and the team’s not very good and people aren’t coming.

I really really hope that isn't a quote in 2-3 years by a JMU supporter in reference to the AUBC. Fingers crossed.
03-25-2020 07:48 AM
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ShadyP Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-24-2020 08:33 PM)HMK Wrote:  https://schev.edu/docs/default-source/tu...ht2018.pdf
According to SCHEV, the total cost of attending JMU is $22,500 while the average for the Virginia state's public universities is $24,000.

It would seem to me the article should have been written about why the total cost at UVA is over $5,000 more than JMU. UVA has a 3 Billion dollar endowment and being a P5 sports school their sports program is nearly self supporting. Why is their total cost so high?

Spot On!!!

Parents and students could care less about every single line-item and how it is accounted for.....at the end of the day it really comes down to, what does it cost to attend per semester/per year and JMU is a relative bargain compared to other state schools in Virginia. So rather than getting wrapped around the axel about student fees or any other line item.....concentrate on the bottom line. It seems JMU has figured out how to give a much better bargain than almost every other school in the state.
03-25-2020 07:49 AM
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2Buck Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
I'll take Dukeman's radical exuberance over the indifference that's far too prevalent among our alumni base any day. He's like that little kid on a long car ride that keeps asking "why?" to everything adults say. Love it.
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2020 10:06 AM by 2Buck.)
03-25-2020 10:05 AM
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Post: #29
RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-24-2020 08:33 PM)HMK Wrote:  https://schev.edu/docs/default-source/tu...ht2018.pdf
According to SCHEV, the total cost of attending JMU is $22,500 while the average for the Virginia state's public universities is $24,000.

It would seem to me the article should have been written about why the total cost at UVA is over $5,000 more than JMU. UVA has a 3 Billion dollar endowment and being a P5 sports school their sports program is nearly self supporting. Why is their total cost so high?

I'm sure there's not one answer to that, but the reality is that UVa gives out much more money to students than other state schools. They're starting to operate more like a private school where the sticker price isn't what you actually pay, IMO.

How much of that aid is a subsidy from higher tuition and how much is due to the endowment, I don't know. But I do know that my high school senior will be able to attend UVa next year for far less than either JMU or VT, if she chooses to go there.
03-25-2020 10:32 AM
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RamDawg Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-24-2020 08:33 PM)HMK Wrote:  https://schev.edu/docs/default-source/tu...ht2018.pdf
According to SCHEV, the total cost of attending JMU is $22,500 while the average for the Virginia state's public universities is $24,000.

It would seem to me the article should have been written about why the total cost at UVA is over $5,000 more than JMU. UVA has a 3 Billion dollar endowment and being a P5 sports school their sports program is nearly self supporting. Why is their total cost so high?

Just a thought: Maybe UVA pays professors more than JMU, attracting a higher level of talent. Maybe smaller size classes? I don't have anything to back up my thought but there's a reason UVA has the reputation, academically that it does. Is a degree from UVA worth an extra $20K compared to the JMU's of the state? (heck if I know)
03-26-2020 05:25 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-26-2020 05:25 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  
(03-24-2020 08:33 PM)HMK Wrote:  https://schev.edu/docs/default-source/tu...ht2018.pdf
According to SCHEV, the total cost of attending JMU is $22,500 while the average for the Virginia state's public universities is $24,000.

It would seem to me the article should have been written about why the total cost at UVA is over $5,000 more than JMU. UVA has a 3 Billion dollar endowment and being a P5 sports school their sports program is nearly self supporting. Why is their total cost so high?

Just a thought: Maybe UVA pays professors more than JMU, attracting a higher level of talent. Maybe smaller size classes? I don't have anything to back up my thought but there's a reason UVA has the reputation, academically that it does. Is a degree from UVA worth an extra $20K compared to the JMU's of the state? (heck if I know)

Answers to your questions:

Yes, UVA pays more on average (but salary averages are skewed by professional and graduate programs with research focuses).

No, the talent level isn’t higher, but the focus on professional and graduate level-research places a premium on research publication/outcomes vs. undergraduate teaching. JMU’s faculty as a group takes a back seat to no other school, but JMU’s rep would benefit from cherry-picking some hired academic guns aka Nobel/Pritzer/Field Medal/Pulitzer-type stars ala the way Stony Brook or even George Mason has polished their institutional academic reps.

Class sizes can (at first-take) be compared apples to apples, but the number requires a closer look. JMU boasts a faculty to student ratio of 16-1, which is quite good. More importantly, at JMU the vast majority of classes (approaching 90%) are taught by full-time faculty. UVA’s faculty to student ratio (whatever UVA claims it to be) has to be processed through the lens that many undergraduate classes are going to be taught by graduate students, not the stud full-time faculty...the stud full-time faculty are teaching the graduate students. UVA faculty also have much lower teaching loads, mostly calculated as 2-2 loads (meaning 2 courses per semester) vs. JMU’s 4-4 or 3-3 loads.

Not taking anything away from UVA’s rep or it’s faculty, after all that’s their institution’s role. UVA enjoys a 100 year head start on JMU, has built the giant endowment (in part funded by the alums from its professional and graduate programs in law and medicine), and those are distinct advantages in attracting and enrolling top applicants. It’s a well oiled machine now.

Lastly, you ask is a UVA degree worth more, in dollars and cents, cachet, and/or both? At the undergraduate level my feeling is no, however, the grad heavy rep and historical, institutional standing of UVA in American Higher Ed gives it that snooty-ass air. JMU’s rep is already outstanding ...better than many of the biggest boosters on this board may realize. JMU is still very young, and is just now beginning to realize it’s true potential. Time, money, and continued wise stewardship will tell the tale if JMU is to take the next step.
03-26-2020 06:55 PM
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RamDawg Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-26-2020 06:55 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(03-26-2020 05:25 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  
(03-24-2020 08:33 PM)HMK Wrote:  https://schev.edu/docs/default-source/tu...ht2018.pdf
According to SCHEV, the total cost of attending JMU is $22,500 while the average for the Virginia state's public universities is $24,000.

It would seem to me the article should have been written about why the total cost at UVA is over $5,000 more than JMU. UVA has a 3 Billion dollar endowment and being a P5 sports school their sports program is nearly self supporting. Why is their total cost so high?

Just a thought: Maybe UVA pays professors more than JMU, attracting a higher level of talent. Maybe smaller size classes? I don't have anything to back up my thought but there's a reason UVA has the reputation, academically that it does. Is a degree from UVA worth an extra $20K compared to the JMU's of the state? (heck if I know)

Answers to your questions:

Yes, UVA pays more on average (but salary averages are skewed by professional and graduate programs with research focuses).

No, the talent level isn’t higher, but the focus on professional and graduate level-research places a premium on research publication/outcomes vs. undergraduate teaching. JMU’s faculty as a group takes a back seat to no other school, but JMU’s rep would benefit from cherry-picking some hired academic guns aka Nobel/Pritzer/Field Medal/Pulitzer-type stars ala the way Stony Brook or even George Mason has polished their institutional academic reps.

Class sizes can (at first-take) be compared apples to apples, but the number requires a closer look. JMU boasts a faculty to student ratio of 16-1, which is quite good. More importantly, at JMU the vast majority of classes (approaching 90%) are taught by full-time faculty. UVA’s faculty to student ratio (whatever UVA claims it to be) has to be processed through the lens that many undergraduate classes are going to be taught by graduate students, not the stud full-time faculty...the stud full-time faculty are teaching the graduate students. UVA faculty also have much lower teaching loads, mostly calculated as 2-2 loads (meaning 2 courses per semester) vs. JMU’s 4-4 or 3-3 loads.

Not taking anything away from UVA’s rep or it’s faculty, after all that’s their institution’s role. UVA enjoys a 100 year head start on JMU, has built the giant endowment (in part funded by the alums from its professional and graduate programs in law and medicine), and those are distinct advantages in attracting and enrolling top applicants. It’s a well oiled machine now.

Lastly, you ask is a UVA degree worth more, in dollars and cents, cachet, and/or both? At the undergraduate level my feeling is no, however, the grad heavy rep and historical, institutional standing of UVA in American Higher Ed gives it that snooty-ass air. JMU’s rep is already outstanding ...better than many of the biggest boosters on this board may realize. JMU is still very young, and is just now beginning to realize it’s true potential. Time, money, and continued wise stewardship will tell the tale if JMU is to take the next step.

Great stuff, thanks for the time!
03-27-2020 11:59 AM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-25-2020 10:32 AM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  
(03-24-2020 08:33 PM)HMK Wrote:  https://schev.edu/docs/default-source/tu...ht2018.pdf
According to SCHEV, the total cost of attending JMU is $22,500 while the average for the Virginia state's public universities is $24,000.

It would seem to me the article should have been written about why the total cost at UVA is over $5,000 more than JMU. UVA has a 3 Billion dollar endowment and being a P5 sports school their sports program is nearly self supporting. Why is their total cost so high?

I'm sure there's not one answer to that, but the reality is that UVa gives out much more money to students than other state schools. They're starting to operate more like a private school where the sticker price isn't what you actually pay, IMO.

How much of that aid is a subsidy from higher tuition and how much is due to the endowment, I don't know. But I do know that my high school senior will be able to attend UVa next year for far less than either JMU or VT, if she chooses to go there.


Hunh.

Our daughter thought she’d like to transfer to uva after a rather rough freshman year at JMU (crap roommate, lousy schedule etc) She would be a shoo-in according to admissions admin. They offered her/us nothing financially.

It’s a complete crap shoot I guess.
03-28-2020 04:26 AM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
Not sure which thread to put this in but I saw where ODU is cutting their men’s wrestling program.
04-02-2020 07:38 PM
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JMUNation Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
Not sure where they are these days but ODU use to have a top tier wrestling program.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2020 10:32 PM by JMUNation.)
04-02-2020 10:31 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...story.html

Hope it’s not the case but if the Corona virus cancels this upcoming football season how would that impact the guarantee game payments if those games aren’t played? If the smaller schools that rely on those payments don’t get them can they afford to float all their athletics programs or will they have to make other cuts?

Maybe it’s good JMU didn’t spend beyond their budget for a basketball coach.
04-02-2020 10:41 PM
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-28-2020 04:26 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(03-25-2020 10:32 AM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  
(03-24-2020 08:33 PM)HMK Wrote:  https://schev.edu/docs/default-source/tu...ht2018.pdf
According to SCHEV, the total cost of attending JMU is $22,500 while the average for the Virginia state's public universities is $24,000.

It would seem to me the article should have been written about why the total cost at UVA is over $5,000 more than JMU. UVA has a 3 Billion dollar endowment and being a P5 sports school their sports program is nearly self supporting. Why is their total cost so high?

I'm sure there's not one answer to that, but the reality is that UVa gives out much more money to students than other state schools. They're starting to operate more like a private school where the sticker price isn't what you actually pay, IMO.

How much of that aid is a subsidy from higher tuition and how much is due to the endowment, I don't know. But I do know that my high school senior will be able to attend UVa next year for far less than either JMU or VT, if she chooses to go there.


Hunh.

Our daughter thought she’d like to transfer to uva after a rather rough freshman year at JMU (crap roommate, lousy schedule etc) She would be a shoo-in according to admissions admin. They offered her/us nothing financially.

It’s a complete crap shoot I guess.

Yeah I shouldn’t assume everyone would have the same experience, especially for transfers, which is a whole different thing. In our case, it’s interesting to see how the schools differ since she obviously sent the same transcript, recommendations, fafsa, etc to every school - an apples to apples comparison. She only applied to schools with an engineering program. UVa and VCU are very aggressive with the aid. JMU and VT not nearly so much.
04-03-2020 10:34 PM
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Duke Dawg Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
(03-24-2020 07:00 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  ODU raised a record $16.1 million in 2018

By Harry Minium

The prospect of a renovated S.B. Ballard football stadium enticed Old Dominion University athletic boosters to donate money in record amounts in 2018.

The Old Dominion Athletic Foundation, ODU’s athletic fundraising organization, raised a record $16.1 million last year, said Jena Virga, senior associate athletic director.

That’s more than the $12.3 million ODAF raised in 2017 and far more than the $9.6 million raised in 2016, Virga said.
The 2018 total is impressive among mid-major schools.
For instance, James Madison University, which has a Football Championship Subdivision program but is otherwise comparable to ODU, raised $4.5 million in 2017-2018 school year.

The General Assembly passed a law in 2015 intended to reduce the percentage of student fees being used to pay for athletics. ODU was given 10 years to get down to 55 percent.

Broderick challenged Athletic Director Wood Selig and ODAF officials at the time to broaden the fundraising base. ODU has more than doubled its fundraising since then.
Selig said ODU met the 55 percent requirement last school year. ODU is renovating Ballard Stadium without raising student fees.
“Our fundraisers have done an amazing job,” Selig said.

In one of the biggest shockers in college football history, the Monarchs upended No. 13 Virginia Tech in September. The men’s basketball team won at No. 25 Syracuse in December.

ODU’s Olympic sports also did well, with men’s soccer team (a 1-1 tie with No. 1 North Carolina), women’s field hockey (2-1 upset victory at No. 8 Virginia) and wrestling (30-10 upset at No. 11 Northwestern) also having success against Power 5 opponents.
“We want to become a nationally prominent program, and when you have victories against Virginia Tech and Syracuse, it shows our vision can become a reality,” Virga said. “We’re so close, and sometimes resources can make all the difference.”
ODU athletes also had a record year in the classroom, according to a letter Virga sent to ODAF members. In the 2017-2018 school year, more than 35 percent of athletes were on the dean’s list and the cumulative grade-point average for athletes was 3.03, the best ever, she wrote.
“We’re proud of our competitive success on the field,” Virga said. “But we’re most proud of our academic success.”
ODAF is also ahead of schedule on a $40 million fundraising campaign that was part of an overall, $250 million campaign announced two years ago by Broderick.
Turner says ODU has raised $30 million in a little more than two years

Odu raises record amounts of money.

But reports out now say they are in financial trouble,
And they won 1 football game last year.

Sounds like goin to cusa wasn’t such a great move, eh?
04-04-2020 02:36 AM
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JMUNation Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
Their financial statement year end June 30, 2019 shows a deficit of over $3 million. I suspect year end 2020 will be much worse. I don’t know many businesses that can sustain themselves running at a deficit.
04-06-2020 12:12 PM
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JacksonHall Offline
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RE: Hidden figures: Students paying thousands in athletic fees and not knowing it
As a JMU parent I am not pleased with this practice at all.
04-06-2020 01:52 PM
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