(03-23-2020 11:56 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:37 AM)Mav Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:02 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  It is not others' responsibility to prevent you from being stupid, though we can try to encourage you no to....That's more than fair.

That's the fundamental difference between you and I, isn't it? I want to see us do well, not just me.

Not quite, it seems the fundamental difference is you wish to pick your own winners and losers and you've already decided before having input from the people themselves. The very definition of a socialist/communist attitude of contempt for human value and worth. True, I disagree strongly with that ridiculous anti-human attitude, but I defend your right to be ignorant if that is what you wish. Meantime, many of us gots work ta' do, so get out of our ways, thank you, hoss.

Uh huh. See you in the soup kitchen, bud. This downturn's coming for you, too.

(03-23-2020 12:05 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:56 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:37 AM)Mav Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:02 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  It is not others' responsibility to prevent you from being stupid, though we can try to encourage you no to....That's more than fair.

That's the fundamental difference between you and I, isn't it? I want to see us do well, not just me.

Not quite, it seems the fundamental difference is you wish to pick your own winners and losers and you've already decided before having input from the people themselves. The very definition of a socialist/communist attitude of contempt for human value and worth. True, I disagree strongly with that ridiculous anti-human attitude, but I defend your right to be ignorant if that is what you wish. Meantime, many of us gots work ta' do, so get out of our ways, thank you, hoss.

Uh huh. See you in the soup kitchen, bud. This downturn's coming for you, too.

And THAT is why you and those with your attitude and perspective fail. I've already been through the downturn...and learned how to ride that wave, too. This is not a downturn, it is a tremendous opportunity, and a gift top those who wish to receive it. But the Left doesn't want you to understand that, so they tell you to trust them to "take care" of you. yeah, they'll "take care of you" allright. Again, hard to drive with your eyes closed, so open them, bro.

Peace is not freedom from the storm, true peace is freedom within any storm.

(03-23-2020 11:48 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 07:30 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I love how it's fine to get on average American's about not being fiscally responsible, yet we've got countless industries begging for billions in bailouts because they used their profits for stock buybacks. Corporate socialism at its finest.

Who is lauding corporations that are mismanaging their balance sheets and championing their rights to bailouts? Besides, isn't it fair to criticize those Americans who can't survive a couple of weeks without a paycheck - especially those who had the means to prepare for possible interruptions of their income stream - regardless of what some mismanaged companies are doing? Clear case of "whataboutism". I wonder of John Oliver ever regretted doing that comedy bit on his show considering I've seen an awful lot of this coming from progressives...

A whole lot of politicians. So you are fine with just letting these industries fail?

(03-23-2020 11:58 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:48 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 07:30 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I love how it's fine to get on average American's about not being fiscally responsible, yet we've got countless industries begging for billions in bailouts because they used their profits for stock buybacks. Corporate socialism at its finest.

Who is lauding corporations that are mismanaging their balance sheets and championing their rights to bailouts? Besides, isn't it fair to criticize those Americans who can't survive a couple of weeks without a paycheck - especially those who had the means to prepare for possible interruptions of their income stream - regardless of what some mismanaged companies are doing? Clear case of "whataboutism". I wonder of John Oliver ever regretted doing that comedy bit on his show considering I've seen an awful lot of this coming from progressives...

I think the market does a fair job when left alone of showing loser corporate decisions the door...and of rewarding good ones...thus incentivizing others to keep trying. God Bless America.

So you are ok with letting Boeing and the rest of the airline industry go under?

(03-23-2020 12:25 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:48 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 07:30 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I love how it's fine to get on average American's about not being fiscally responsible, yet we've got countless industries begging for billions in bailouts because they used their profits for stock buybacks. Corporate socialism at its finest.

Who is lauding corporations that are mismanaging their balance sheets and championing their rights to bailouts? Besides, isn't it fair to criticize those Americans who can't survive a couple of weeks without a paycheck - especially those who had the means to prepare for possible interruptions of their income stream - regardless of what some mismanaged companies are doing? Clear case of "whataboutism". I wonder of John Oliver ever regretted doing that comedy bit on his show considering I've seen an awful lot of this coming from progressives...

A whole lot of politicians. So you are fine with just letting these industries fail?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. First you rail against it. I point out that I'm unaware of people who think it's great and then you accuse me of wanting businesses to fail. Make up your mind.

Unfortunately yes - a number of companies will need to be bailed out despite them making crappy decisions. Boeing has been ripped to shreds in the public discourse. So they surely gotten ridiculed just like some Americans who had the means to save for a rainy day and didn't.

(03-23-2020 12:26 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:58 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:48 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 07:30 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I love how it's fine to get on average American's about not being fiscally responsible, yet we've got countless industries begging for billions in bailouts because they used their profits for stock buybacks. Corporate socialism at its finest.

Who is lauding corporations that are mismanaging their balance sheets and championing their rights to bailouts? Besides, isn't it fair to criticize those Americans who can't survive a couple of weeks without a paycheck - especially those who had the means to prepare for possible interruptions of their income stream - regardless of what some mismanaged companies are doing? Clear case of "whataboutism". I wonder of John Oliver ever regretted doing that comedy bit on his show considering I've seen an awful lot of this coming from progressives...

I think the market does a fair job when left alone of showing loser corporate decisions the door...and of rewarding good ones...thus incentivizing others to keep trying. God Bless America.

So you are ok with letting Boeing and the rest of the airline industry go under?

Hey, chicken little, sky falling much?

(03-23-2020 01:01 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 12:25 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:48 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 07:30 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I love how it's fine to get on average American's about not being fiscally responsible, yet we've got countless industries begging for billions in bailouts because they used their profits for stock buybacks. Corporate socialism at its finest.

Who is lauding corporations that are mismanaging their balance sheets and championing their rights to bailouts? Besides, isn't it fair to criticize those Americans who can't survive a couple of weeks without a paycheck - especially those who had the means to prepare for possible interruptions of their income stream - regardless of what some mismanaged companies are doing? Clear case of "whataboutism". I wonder of John Oliver ever regretted doing that comedy bit on his show considering I've seen an awful lot of this coming from progressives...

A whole lot of politicians. So you are fine with just letting these industries fail?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. First you rail against it. I point out that I'm unaware of people who think it's great and then you accuse me of wanting businesses to fail. Make up your mind.

Unfortunately yes - a number of companies will need to be bailed out despite them making crappy decisions. Boeing has been ripped to shreds in the public discourse. So they surely gotten ridiculed just like some Americans who had the means to save for a rainy day and didn't.

So do you think the average American who made bad decisions should be bailed out as well, or does personal responsibility only apply to individuals in your opinion?

(03-23-2020 01:09 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 12:26 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:58 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:48 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 07:30 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I love how it's fine to get on average American's about not being fiscally responsible, yet we've got countless industries begging for billions in bailouts because they used their profits for stock buybacks. Corporate socialism at its finest.

Who is lauding corporations that are mismanaging their balance sheets and championing their rights to bailouts? Besides, isn't it fair to criticize those Americans who can't survive a couple of weeks without a paycheck - especially those who had the means to prepare for possible interruptions of their income stream - regardless of what some mismanaged companies are doing? Clear case of "whataboutism". I wonder of John Oliver ever regretted doing that comedy bit on his show considering I've seen an awful lot of this coming from progressives...

I think the market does a fair job when left alone of showing loser corporate decisions the door...and of rewarding good ones...thus incentivizing others to keep trying. God Bless America.

So you are ok with letting Boeing and the rest of the airline industry go under?

Hey, chicken little, sky falling much?

Is that answering the question? Yes or no if you had control of this would you bail those companies out or let them fail?

(03-23-2020 01:10 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 01:01 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 12:25 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:48 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 07:30 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I love how it's fine to get on average American's about not being fiscally responsible, yet we've got countless industries begging for billions in bailouts because they used their profits for stock buybacks. Corporate socialism at its finest.

Who is lauding corporations that are mismanaging their balance sheets and championing their rights to bailouts? Besides, isn't it fair to criticize those Americans who can't survive a couple of weeks without a paycheck - especially those who had the means to prepare for possible interruptions of their income stream - regardless of what some mismanaged companies are doing? Clear case of "whataboutism". I wonder of John Oliver ever regretted doing that comedy bit on his show considering I've seen an awful lot of this coming from progressives...

A whole lot of politicians. So you are fine with just letting these industries fail?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. First you rail against it. I point out that I'm unaware of people who think it's great and then you accuse me of wanting businesses to fail. Make up your mind.

Unfortunately yes - a number of companies will need to be bailed out despite them making crappy decisions. Boeing has been ripped to shreds in the public discourse. So they surely gotten ridiculed just like some Americans who had the means to save for a rainy day and didn't.

So do you think the average American who made bad decisions should be bailed out as well, or does personal responsibility only apply to individuals in your opinion?

It's a moot point given the stimulus that's going to be coming down the pike.

(03-23-2020 01:10 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 01:09 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 12:26 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:58 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:48 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Who is lauding corporations that are mismanaging their balance sheets and championing their rights to bailouts? Besides, isn't it fair to criticize those Americans who can't survive a couple of weeks without a paycheck - especially those who had the means to prepare for possible interruptions of their income stream - regardless of what some mismanaged companies are doing? Clear case of "whataboutism". I wonder of John Oliver ever regretted doing that comedy bit on his show considering I've seen an awful lot of this coming from progressives...

I think the market does a fair job when left alone of showing loser corporate decisions the door...and of rewarding good ones...thus incentivizing others to keep trying. God Bless America.

So you are ok with letting Boeing and the rest of the airline industry go under?

Hey, chicken little, sky falling much?

Is that answering the question? Yes or no if you had control of this would you bail those companies out or let them fail?

Wow. Just wow. Hope you're not a head of household. Would hate to have others depending on your 'ability' to evaluate a situation. But Dems rely on people like you to keep propping them up. Your response is the equivalent of "I want a 4-year degree in engineering in one day, and I demand it now!" How simple-minded can one get? No, leave adult decisions for the adults, please. Thanks for playing, go pick up your Car Wax.

(03-23-2020 01:15 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 01:10 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 01:09 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 12:26 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 11:58 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  I think the market does a fair job when left alone of showing loser corporate decisions the door...and of rewarding good ones...thus incentivizing others to keep trying. God Bless America.

So you are ok with letting Boeing and the rest of the airline industry go under?

Hey, chicken little, sky falling much?

Is that answering the question? Yes or no if you had control of this would you bail those companies out or let them fail?

Wow. Just wow. Hope you're not a head of household. Would hate to have others depending on your 'ability' to evaluate a situation. But Dems rely on people like you to keep propping them up. Your response is the equivalent of "I want a 4-year degree in engineering in one day, and I demand it now!" How simple-minded can one get? No, leave adult decisions for the adults, please. Thanks for playing, go pick up your Car Wax.

Yes or no question should they be bailed out or allowed to fail?

(03-23-2020 01:27 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 01:15 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 01:10 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 01:09 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 12:26 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  So you are ok with letting Boeing and the rest of the airline industry go under?

Hey, chicken little, sky falling much?

Is that answering the question? Yes or no if you had control of this would you bail those companies out or let them fail?

Wow. Just wow. Hope you're not a head of household. Would hate to have others depending on your 'ability' to evaluate a situation. But Dems rely on people like you to keep propping them up. Your response is the equivalent of "I want a 4-year degree in engineering in one day, and I demand it now!" How simple-minded can one get? No, leave adult decisions for the adults, please. Thanks for playing, go pick up your Car Wax.

Yes or no question should they be bailed out or allowed to fail?

you can bail them out from their current issues and not save them from the larger issues. Address 3 months... and that's all for now.

(03-23-2020 01:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 01:27 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 01:15 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 01:10 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-23-2020 01:09 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Hey, chicken little, sky falling much?

Is that answering the question? Yes or no if you had control of this would you bail those companies out or let them fail?

Wow. Just wow. Hope you're not a head of household. Would hate to have others depending on your 'ability' to evaluate a situation. But Dems rely on people like you to keep propping them up. Your response is the equivalent of "I want a 4-year degree in engineering in one day, and I demand it now!" How simple-minded can one get? No, leave adult decisions for the adults, please. Thanks for playing, go pick up your Car Wax.

Yes or no question should they be bailed out or allowed to fail?

you can bail them out from their current issues and not save them from the larger issues. Address 3 months... and that's all for now.

Just seems like Boeing is not letting this crisis go to waste. Virus or not, they were going down the tube from releasing a plane whose auto pilot crashed the plane.

I've already mentioned that my idea of a UBI plus kurzarbeit would have addressed a lot of problems. One other idea that I've had is creating a privatized portion of social security, kind of like what Sweden does.

Here's what I have in mind. Regular social security would go to 15% (7.5% employer/7.5% employee). That would eliminate the 2030 problem and long-term viability could be ensured by other provisions, such as advancing the full retirement age (and keeping the early retirement age with actuarially adjusted benefits) one month for every year until it increases from 66 to 70 in 48 years. Then there would be another 5% (2.5%/2.5%) to go into a privatized account, like a super 401k. This could go into three tranches. The first $100,000 per person would go into privatized enterprise functions of the federal government which would be supported by user fees at a level to guarantee a 5% ROI--1) the Interstate highway system as a national toll road system, like Europe; 2) the postal service, like New Zealand, with a postal bank added; 3) air traffic control (like Canada), airports, and TSA; 4) TVA and the western water and power authorities; 5) non-military portions of the Army COE; and 6) Amtrak; and 7) any others. These entities could vastly improve infrastructure, and also by giving each American a "piece of the rock" they could vastly improve equality of income. The next $100,000 per person would go to very secure stock investments with generally low betas, say something like a DJI index fund. Anything over $200,000 could be self-directed. They could be set up like a 401k, to permit borrowing for certain situations, of which this could be one.

Obviously I'm talking about things we don't have yet, but I think they could be useful in many ways, this being one of them.