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Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
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randyfensfanclub1 Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
(04-02-2020 11:09 AM)HuskieJ Wrote:  
(03-30-2020 04:56 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  
(03-30-2020 10:36 AM)HuskieJ Wrote:  That's not true either. I agree that they paid in the amount required, but the math to obligate the taxpayers to that contract was totally flawed. It really does not matter that they "borrowed" from a plan. No matter how much they put in it will eventually be required that nearly 100% of tax revenue go to cover pensions and not regular expenses. No one is blaming the people taking the money, but it has to be pointed out that it is not sustainable. All new state employees should have been moved to 401k style plans 10 years ago, but the public sector unions do not want to release the strangle hold they have on Illinois. Illinois Supreme court is going way beyond what the law states right now to not allow new employees into this death spiral system. I will be here unfortunately for 2 more years. Wish I could leave tomorrow, because nobody wants to treat this seriously enough. Also it used to be that state employees were had lower pay to offset benefits like the pensions. Now state and federal employees have higher pay scales than the private sector and they get the benefits. Does not seem that fair to me.

Sorry but there are a few flaws in your post. No. 1, the money was in there and being added to in sufficient amounts to sustain things until it was all borrowed and never repaid. No. 2, the unions negotiated that deal because state employees had lower pay and therefore earned the pension benefits in place of the higher pay scales in the private sector. Aside from those at the very top, the average state and federal employee still does not make more than its equivalent in the private sector. It's the private sector's insane bonuses and golden parachutes for the very top which led to the handful of the highest level of state and federal being overpaid. Those few --- the supposed 100K pensions you previously talked about --- are the ones always pointed to as creating the unsustainability, not the vast majority of state workers which include professors, staff administrators, janitors, etc. The original contract never obligated the taxpayers, it obligated the union employees to accept the benefits in exchange. It DID NOT become a "death spiral" until so the money was drained and never replaced.

Stick your head in the sand and believe what you want. Even if all the funds were not touched, it is nowhere near the amount needed to cover the pension debt. The math never worked. Believe what you want, but the truth is plain that is was not sustainable from the start. The 3% auto increase makes it that way right off the top, then add in the promotions given just before retirement, and the people drawing multiple pensions. I do not blame the people getting the money. I blame the people in charge of this and the citizens of Illinois that will not do anything about it.

Numbers never worked because manufacturing left country, inner cities became a burden and weren't producing enough revenue and other states lured businesses and individuals with all their cheap labor and incentives. As much as people want to complain about Illinonis, in areas where there is middle class and higher have more intangibles (ie: better roads, healthcare, education, etc.) than many other places. Believe me, I have seen enough of this country to see areas that look nice but I wouldn't want to live their. You are seeing it with the pandemic reaction. If you want to live in the middle of nowhere there are some nice places. But there are tradeoffs. And some of these hot spots of growth have already become pricey and some eventually will in time feel the same thing.
04-07-2020 09:44 AM
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dogdangit Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
(04-07-2020 09:13 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If all universities will move to online classes for the foreseeable future, I'm not sure why there would be a drop in registrations. If you want a college education, you have no choice. Will kids basically give up a college education because it will be temporarily online? On the contrary, I would think that registrations would go up because the students would save a lot of money on room and board until things get back to normal (whenever that may be). I mean, I am working from home now and am saving a lot on gas, commuting time, and wear and tear on my car, as are a lot of people. If this goes into next winter (which I doubt), think of the grief students will save from having to walk to classes in the tundra.

Registrations would only go up at community colleges. There's no point in overpaying to take online classes at a 4 year school when the same quality education is available locally for much cheaper, especially if you're an incoming freshman taking gen eds.
04-07-2020 10:56 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
(04-07-2020 10:56 AM)dogdangit Wrote:  
(04-07-2020 09:13 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If all universities will move to online classes for the foreseeable future, I'm not sure why there would be a drop in registrations. If you want a college education, you have no choice. Will kids basically give up a college education because it will be temporarily online? On the contrary, I would think that registrations would go up because the students would save a lot of money on room and board until things get back to normal (whenever that may be). I mean, I am working from home now and am saving a lot on gas, commuting time, and wear and tear on my car, as are a lot of people. If this goes into next winter (which I doubt), think of the grief students will save from having to walk to classes in the tundra.

Registrations would only go up at community colleges. There's no point in overpaying to take online classes at a 4 year school when the same quality education is available locally for much cheaper, especially if you're an incoming freshman taking gen eds.

There’s really no reason to go the first 2 years of a 4 year university at these prices when you’re taking gen ed classes. I understand college life offers more life learning experiences than just the curriculum. But at 20k/year I’d suggest staying home for at least one year and going to juCo. Anthropology and philosophy arent worth being in debt
04-07-2020 11:02 AM
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klake87 Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
(04-06-2020 11:15 AM)Big_Man Wrote:  
(04-06-2020 08:00 AM)klake87 Wrote:  
(04-05-2020 08:35 PM)Big_Man Wrote:  
(04-05-2020 07:54 AM)klake87 Wrote:  Newsome is an idiot. If we don't return to some kind of normality soon the US will have bigger problems then coronavirus

So if people are still testing positive, and there is no vaccine what would be your solution? Just have sports and hope that athletes and fans don't get sick? Would you have the same reaction if he had a "R" next to his name instead of a "D"?

During great depression 1 in 4 was unemployed. We will have far more die from suicide, hunger, heart attacks drug overdoses. I am not downplaying severity of this but trying to save every life now will cause way more deaths in future. I feel that another great depression will be way worse than coronavirus itself.

You certainly are downplaying the severity of the Covid-19 outbreak. Do you have any data back up your claims besides listening to Rush Limbaugh?

I am not downplaying it at all, just saying the pain from the second greart depression will be worse than the virus itself. 1/4 of people or more could be unemployed state is broke, federal spending 1/3 of our GDP and talk of more stimulus.
04-07-2020 02:47 PM
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pvk75 Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
Apologies for length, but it took more than a few words to get thoughts out on this ...

In addition to Northern's tradition as a weekend "suitcase school," we've already seen a shift toward commuting, part-time and on-line, and the Covid-19 crisis is pushing that trend into a shorter timeframe. Illinois has a good two-year college system, and costs are less there for freshman and sophomore students. I can see the university shifting more toward juniors and seniors, graduate and doctoral students. Though athletics would still draw full undergraduate enrollment, that's a relatively small percentage of total enrollment.

Imo, the shift would be from 4-5 years (frosh through senior graduation), to 4-5 years (start with two-year associate degree, junior-senior years, graduation, and two years to master's). Same amount of time at NIU, but at different levels with stronger career focus.

The shift more toward juniors, seniors, graduate and doctoral students could help Northern elevate both the professionalism and quality of its faculty, and its research reputation. Students at those levels are closer to their graduations and careers, and tend to be more serious and less inclined to change majors or drop out. All of that, in turn, would add greater value to the cost of attending a major university.

With all of the focus now on no sports, this tends to get shuffled off to the side, but it's a huge shift in the definition of higher education. Northern could become more of an Upper Midwest regional university and shed the in-state directional tag. There's no need to change the name, just the focus.

Likewise, the recent emphasis on health informatics and combining the health-related disciplines is right time, right place, right school. And don't forget, Northern also has the strengths of good business, engineering, law and some other programs, so it's not one-dimensional.

I see all this as a strength and, because Northern already went through the leaning process when the state had no budget, I think NIU is better-prepped for the trend than a lot of G5 schools.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2020 06:00 PM by pvk75.)
04-07-2020 05:53 PM
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klake87 Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
I am going to revise my statement, could this be the demise of the state sooner than anticipated
04-08-2020 08:14 AM
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Dog Fan Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
Since Illinois is in such dire straights financially, for those who have not already moved to Indiana, I have a recommendation. This will be especially helpful to those who also view the United States as being in a terrible financial position, with imminent joblessness and the resultant stresses that causes. Here is my recommendation: Let us all move to China. This has several advantages:

. China will bounce back economically because they manufacture everything in the world.

. Since all devastating diseases originate in China, we can get them and be done with them quicker (assuming we live through them).

. Since everything is made in China, we won't have to wait to get anything we need. Also, think of all we'll save in tariffs and other import taxes!

. All that Chinese food! People who love Chinese food (like Bill Baker) will be in heaven. Just stay away from the open markets and, in particular, bats.

. We will all get to learn an exciting new language.

. For those who are unhappy with this country, you will get to experience life under a Communist dictatorship - and you will love it (the government will see to that - if not, just keep your mouth shut and go on with your day). To learn more, I will be setting up an information table in Tiananmen Square.
04-08-2020 09:10 AM
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randyfensfanclub1 Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
(04-08-2020 09:10 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  Since Illinois is in such dire straights financially, for those who have not already moved to Indiana, I have a recommendation. This will be especially helpful to those who also view the United States as being in a terrible financial position, with imminent joblessness and the resultant stresses that causes. Here is my recommendation: Let us all move to China. This has several advantages:

. China will bounce back economically because they manufacture everything in the world.

. Since all devastating diseases originate in China, we can get them and be done with them quicker (assuming we live through them).

. Since everything is made in China, we won't have to wait to get anything we need. Also, think of all we'll save in tariffs and other import taxes!

. All that Chinese food! People who love Chinese food (like Bill Baker) will be in heaven. Just stay away from the open markets and, in particular, bats.

. We will all get to learn an exciting new language.

. For those who are unhappy with this country, you will get to experience life under a Communist dictatorship - and you will love it (the government will see to that - if not, just keep your mouth shut and go on with your day). To learn more, I will be setting up an information table in Tiananmen Square.

Sounds a lot like American businesses.
04-08-2020 03:13 PM
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NIU84 Offline
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Post: #89
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
I've been to China recently, big cities were much nicer and potentially livable than I had imagined, my expectations were low but they were far exceeded. Although I don't think Dog Fan wanted to hear that tight now :). On to what I wanted to say...

I read recently that Miamo of Ohio is planning on 20% fewer students in the fall, that's their current planning projection. Wish I could find that link, I think it was in the NY times or WSJ. Miami is more a destination school than NIU, so I'd expect NIU is using a planning forecast for more than a 20% drop. You can start any speculation with a 'greater than 20% drop' figure.

Close a dorm, but I'll bet by August the guidance is 19 year olds can mingle as it seems like they have a much lower infection and illiness %, and maybe testing is widely available and required, fingers crossed.

Cancel 20% of programs/classes with the lowest participation? Unfortunately a corresponding loss of NIU jobs.

Imagine what they are thinking at EIU, I think they only have like 4000 enrolled there before the virus.

At this point I really don't want to see a school close, I want people to hang onto their jobs. If we're going to close a school, I wonder if we can do that over a multi year period to cushion the blow.
04-08-2020 10:38 PM
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pvk75 Offline
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Post: #90
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
(04-08-2020 10:38 PM)NIU84 Wrote:  I've been to China recently, big cities were much nicer and potentially livable than I had imagined, my expectations were low but they were far exceeded. Although I don't think Dog Fan wanted to hear that tight now :). On to what I wanted to say...

I read recently that Miamo of Ohio is planning on 20% fewer students in the fall, that's their current planning projection. Wish I could find that link, I think it was in the NY times or WSJ. Miami is more a destination school than NIU, so I'd expect NIU is using a planning forecast for more than a 20% drop. You can start any speculation with a 'greater than 20% drop' figure.

Close a dorm, but I'll bet by August the guidance is 19 year olds can mingle as it seems like they have a much lower infection and illiness %, and maybe testing is widely available and required, fingers crossed.

Cancel 20% of programs/classes with the lowest participation? Unfortunately a corresponding loss of NIU jobs.

Imagine what they are thinking at EIU, I think they only have like 4000 enrolled there before the virus.

At this point I really don't want to see a school close, I want people to hang onto their jobs. If we're going to close a school, I wonder if we can do that over a multi year period to cushion the blow.

I recall reading about Miami-Ohio too, but could only find this link:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/20...933473001/
04-08-2020 11:05 PM
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HW58 Offline
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Post: #91
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
This was an interesting read. Starts out discussing Miami of Ohio (mentions cuts to athletics and other areas of budget), but also touches on Toledo, Akron, Wright State, and other Ohio schools. The problems are everywhere. https://www.daytondailynews.com/business...Jat1YMJjP/
04-09-2020 01:28 PM
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pvk75 Offline
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RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
Not the MAC, but an in-state private ... Peoria Journal Star on Bradley ...
https://www.pjstar.com/news/20200406/bra...-on-budget

Also, Illinois publics ask for federal support ...
https://www.mcdonoughvoice.com/news/2020...al-support
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2020 03:54 PM by pvk75.)
04-09-2020 03:52 PM
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pvk75 Offline
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Post: #93
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
Cincinnati cuts men's soccer ...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/...r-BB12Cwji

And ... sorry ... this is getting way off the OP. But it makes me wonder about the status of some NIu "club" sports and other non-revenue/small-revenue programs.
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2020 05:52 PM by pvk75.)
04-14-2020 12:46 PM
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pvk75 Offline
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RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
Admit I'm not knowledgeable on this, but what "club" sports does NIU have and does athletics contribute anything?
04-21-2020 05:53 PM
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NILAW Offline
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Post: #95
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
(04-21-2020 05:53 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  Admit I'm not knowledgeable on this, but what "club" sports does NIU have and does athletics contribute anything?

I had to look this up.

Here is a listing of NIU club sports: https://www.niu.edu/recreation/programs/...ndex.shtml

One of the links answers the question how much does it cost to join a sports club? Answer: Participation in some sport clubs is free, while other clubs require individual donations to cover the costs of equipment, facility rentals and supervision, instruction and travel.

A sample donation letter: Because funds are limited for Sport Clubs at Northern Illinois University, we have very limited funds and assistance from the university to participate in such a large tournament.

So, it sounds like the contribution from the university is very limited.
04-21-2020 07:01 PM
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dogdangit Offline
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Post: #96
RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
(04-21-2020 07:01 PM)NILAW Wrote:  
(04-21-2020 05:53 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  Admit I'm not knowledgeable on this, but what "club" sports does NIU have and does athletics contribute anything?

I had to look this up.

Here is a listing of NIU club sports: https://www.niu.edu/recreation/programs/...ndex.shtml

One of the links answers the question how much does it cost to join a sports club? Answer: Participation in some sport clubs is free, while other clubs require individual donations to cover the costs of equipment, facility rentals and supervision, instruction and travel.

A sample donation letter: Because funds are limited for Sport Clubs at Northern Illinois University, we have very limited funds and assistance from the university to participate in such a large tournament.

So, it sounds like the contribution from the university is very limited.

I was a president of a club sport last year, all our funding comes from the Student government which collects money from student fees. This year funding is getting severely cut, and our funding for this spring was already completely taken away without warning (before the coronvirus shutdown). I was told that the rec is cutting 22k for the next school year, and that clubs cannot receive more than 33% of their expenses from the school, where the other 66% is up to the club to fundraise. Also there is currently a ban on creating new clubs and the clubs have been operating without a sports club director this whole year as the last one left for IU.
04-21-2020 10:05 PM
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pvk75 Offline
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RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
Being careful about this subject ... or at least trying ... but ...

So if funding is/has been cut for clubs now, does this reflect declining enrollment or something else? Is the money going for something else?

Consider that a.dept. funding for cheerleaders was cut in 2017 and we just "discovered" it a few months ago through some Dog Pound members noticing their absence at events. They are now a "club" existing on self-fundraising. I believe that's the case with the Silverettes too. OK, that's the a.dept. but ...

From what you say, these club funding cuts came before the Covid-19 crisis. What the h--ll is going on at NIU? And WITH the Covid-19 crisis, and its impact on funding, what does this portend for the Old U?

Back to athletics. A number of schools, including some big names, have announced some of the things they're doing to deal with the impending problems. But nothing comes out of NIU.

If the a.dept. expects long-time fans and contributors to just pony up without being kept in the loop, they may be sadly mistaken. This secrecy thing, this we'll-let-you-know-what-we-decide stuff, is going to bite somebody in the a-- big-time.

-----------------------

Just so STF doesn't get ALL the blame for this attitude, it actually began in the mid-1990s when the a.dept. gradually took control of everything. The Huskie Club became the Athletic Association became the Athletic Foundation over a period of years, and each AD along the way consolidated more control of information until it came down to this we'll-let-you-know-what-we-decide stuff.
(This post was last modified: 04-22-2020 12:56 AM by pvk75.)
04-22-2020 12:49 AM
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Dog Fan Offline
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RE: Could this be death of one or more of directional schools
(04-22-2020 12:49 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  Being careful about this subject ... or at least trying ... but ...

So if funding is/has been cut for clubs now, does this reflect declining enrollment or something else? Is the money going for something else?

Consider that a.dept. funding for cheerleaders was cut in 2017 and we just "discovered" it a few months ago through some Dog Pound members noticing their absence at events. They are now a "club" existing on self-fundraising. I believe that's the case with the Silverettes too. OK, that's the a.dept. but ...

From what you say, these club funding cuts came before the Covid-19 crisis. What the h--ll is going on at NIU? And WITH the Covid-19 crisis, and its impact on funding, what does this portend for the Old U?

Back to athletics. A number of schools, including some big names, have announced some of the things they're doing to deal with the impending problems. But nothing comes out of NIU.

If the a.dept. expects long-time fans and contributors to just pony up without being kept in the loop, they may be sadly mistaken. This secrecy thing, this we'll-let-you-know-what-we-decide stuff, is going to bite somebody in the a-- big-time.

-----------------------

Just so STF doesn't get ALL the blame for this attitude, it actually began in the mid-1990s when the a.dept. gradually took control of everything. The Huskie Club became the Athletic Association became the Athletic Foundation over a period of years, and each AD along the way consolidated more control of information until it came down to this we'll-let-you-know-what-we-decide stuff.

Correct! And, this is what I have been saying for several years and, in particular, during the STF era. Many of us donate until it hurts, and some of us at the several thousand dollar level - plus additional support throughout the year. Their biggest communication with us is the cashing of our checks. For sure, there is a closed door secrecy that stems from a lack of respect of their donors. When we have to find out about a contract extension 10 months after the fact in the Northern Star (through a FOIA inquiry), that is really bad and symptomatic of what goes on in that department.
04-22-2020 07:25 AM
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