Some folks may take this the wrong way and I mean no disrespect to players who have worn the uniform even during the last 20+ years when the MBB program has been by in large a failure. I certainly have respect for the teams in the 70s and 80s and early 90s and want things to return to that but it is so far removed that while I get someone saying they want to engage alumni and bring back tradition I think in reality JMU basketball has to chart its own course and start its own traditions and own winning culture.

Even when Rowe would talk about the good old days aside from a few wins and the shot by Culuko those teams while solid kind of underperformed. They weren’t power houses or model teams by any measure. We can do better than that and we should.

(07-22-2020 12:24 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 12:13 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:41 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Always felt like Rowe was a bridge in many ways based on the timing things going on with JMU Athletics and JMU MBB- stinks you punt on a major program for a few years and essentially give an unproven guy a shot to cut his teeth at JMU but that’s what ended up happening. I think both JMU and external candidates were more ready to take over the program and bring it back to a high level this go around.

JMU has screwed up this hire way too many times to call it a bridge.
This hire was almost identical to Dillard except that Dillard had more experience as head coach (not much success, though).
Keener was another disaster hire.
Brady was the closest they ever got to getting it right.
Rowe was just going back to same broken strategy for coaching. I remember them saying he would bring excitement back into the program and being very underwhelmed when they introduced him.
At that time, the new arena was no longer a dream.. it was happening. I remember at the time feeling like we really needed some success before we got to the new arena.
I really wanted our first year in the Bank to be building off of success from the previous year. In a way this Covid thing did them a favor. While I'm excited about Byington, the average JMU fan may not be on board right away. We've been bad for so long it's going to take time before the fan base catches on. Having the first year in the arena not being full was a missed opportunity. Thankfully for the admin, they got a pass.

And they held on to Dillard for too long.

It was PGs fault!

(07-22-2020 06:06 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Some folks may take this the wrong way and I mean no disrespect to players who have worn the uniform even during the last 20+ years when the MBB program has been by in large a failure. I certainly have respect for the teams in the 70s and 80s and early 90s and want things to return to that but it is so far removed that while I get someone saying they want to engage alumni and bring back tradition I think in reality JMU basketball has to chart its own course and start its own traditions and own winning culture.

Even when Rowe would talk about the good old days aside from a few wins and the shot by Culuko those teams while solid kind of underperformed. They weren’t power houses or model teams by any measure. We can do better than that and we should.

Under Lefty, I definitely agree, though they were far from disappointing, they seem to come up just short of expectations. Whole different story under Campanelli. His teams were always overachieving, with the exception of his final two seasons when he'd lost to graduation a whole slew of starters. I have no doubt he'd have brought JMU back to the top of the conference had the Golden Bears not grabbed him up. Out there he took perennial bottom dwellers to the dance and became a nightmare for the Bruins.

(07-22-2020 06:55 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 06:06 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Some folks may take this the wrong way and I mean no disrespect to players who have worn the uniform even during the last 20+ years when the MBB program has been by in large a failure. I certainly have respect for the teams in the 70s and 80s and early 90s and want things to return to that but it is so far removed that while I get someone saying they want to engage alumni and bring back tradition I think in reality JMU basketball has to chart its own course and start its own traditions and own winning culture.

Even when Rowe would talk about the good old days aside from a few wins and the shot by Culuko those teams while solid kind of underperformed. They weren’t power houses or model teams by any measure. We can do better than that and we should.

Under Lefty, I definitely agree, though they were far from disappointing, they seem to come up just short of expectations. Whole different story under Campanelli. His teams were always overachieving, with the exception of his final two seasons when he'd lost to graduation a whole slew of starters. I have no doubt he'd have brought JMU back to the top of the conference had the Golden Bears not grabbed him up. Out there he took perennial bottom dwellers to the dance and became a nightmare for the Bruins.

Not disagreeing with you and those were the glory years and I know the early Lefty years were great too in terms of the excitement around the program the crowds etc but we are talking about 30-35 years ago. It’s always important to honor and pay tribute to the past but my point is in a new arena in particular JMU MBB under Coach B is a complete blank canvas and I’m excited about that- I don’t need to reminisce about the Convo or Godwin- new arena, new coach, completely new era. Win and you will get alumni who played hoops or followed it to follow this team. If some more recent alum are in the basketball family and can help the program in any way great but there isn’t enough of a recent legacy or culture to point back to- needs to be all new and fresh IMO because it’s been bad or mediocre for so long- long enough that even some of the parents of recruits weren’t old enough for it to register.

(07-22-2020 09:00 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 06:55 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 06:06 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Some folks may take this the wrong way and I mean no disrespect to players who have worn the uniform even during the last 20+ years when the MBB program has been by in large a failure. I certainly have respect for the teams in the 70s and 80s and early 90s and want things to return to that but it is so far removed that while I get someone saying they want to engage alumni and bring back tradition I think in reality JMU basketball has to chart its own course and start its own traditions and own winning culture.

Even when Rowe would talk about the good old days aside from a few wins and the shot by Culuko those teams while solid kind of underperformed. They weren’t power houses or model teams by any measure. We can do better than that and we should.

Under Lefty, I definitely agree, though they were far from disappointing, they seem to come up just short of expectations. Whole different story under Campanelli. His teams were always overachieving, with the exception of his final two seasons when he'd lost to graduation a whole slew of starters. I have no doubt he'd have brought JMU back to the top of the conference had the Golden Bears not grabbed him up. Out there he took perennial bottom dwellers to the dance and became a nightmare for the Bruins.

Not disagreeing with you and those were the glory years and I know the early Lefty years were great too in terms of the excitement around the program the crowds etc but we are talking about 30-35 years ago. It’s always important to honor and pay tribute to the past but my point is in a new arena in particular JMU MBB under Coach B is a complete blank canvas and I’m excited about that- I don’t need to reminisce about the Convo or Godwin- new arena, new coach, completely new era. Win and you will get alumni who played hoops or followed it to follow this team. If some more recent alum are in the basketball family and can help the program in any way great but there isn’t enough of a recent legacy or culture to point back to- needs to be all new and fresh IMO because it’s been bad or mediocre for so long- long enough that even some of the parents of recruits weren’t old enough for it to register.

Totally understand and agree. We've been down so long there's few who remember over 5k fans every time we played a home game. This is going to be much more difficult and different than Campanelli had to accomplish. We weren't bad, we weren't good, we were non-existent prior to his arrival.Then Lefty was able to keep it going. MB has got to make the team as well as the fans believe we can win when we've done nothing but lose for two decades.

(07-22-2020 09:00 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 06:55 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 06:06 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Some folks may take this the wrong way and I mean no disrespect to players who have worn the uniform even during the last 20+ years when the MBB program has been by in large a failure. I certainly have respect for the teams in the 70s and 80s and early 90s and want things to return to that but it is so far removed that while I get someone saying they want to engage alumni and bring back tradition I think in reality JMU basketball has to chart its own course and start its own traditions and own winning culture.

Even when Rowe would talk about the good old days aside from a few wins and the shot by Culuko those teams while solid kind of underperformed. They weren’t power houses or model teams by any measure. We can do better than that and we should.

Under Lefty, I definitely agree, though they were far from disappointing, they seem to come up just short of expectations. Whole different story under Campanelli. His teams were always overachieving, with the exception of his final two seasons when he'd lost to graduation a whole slew of starters. I have no doubt he'd have brought JMU back to the top of the conference had the Golden Bears not grabbed him up. Out there he took perennial bottom dwellers to the dance and became a nightmare for the Bruins.

Not disagreeing with you and those were the glory years and I know the early Lefty years were great too in terms of the excitement around the program the crowds etc but we are talking about 30-35 years ago. It’s always important to honor and pay tribute to the past but my point is in a new arena in particular JMU MBB under Coach B is a complete blank canvas and I’m excited about that- I don’t need to reminisce about the Convo or Godwin- new arena, new coach, completely new era. Win and you will get alumni who played hoops or followed it to follow this team. If some more recent alum are in the basketball family and can help the program in any way great but there isn’t enough of a recent legacy or culture to point back to- needs to be all new and fresh IMO because it’s been bad or mediocre for so long- long enough that even some of the parents of recruits weren’t old enough for it to register.

Agree and to add; the current game/business of mid-major basketball isn't remotely similar to what it was 15 years ago. Heck even Coach Brady seemed to be behind the times his last 2 or 3 years at JMU. For me, sports history is fun, a "feel good" thing and should be respected but is pretty much useless moving forward.

I've been a "follower" of JMU sports for a least 25 years, mainly because of the CAA and I became a fan/supporter less than 10 years ago but JMU basketball has always been viewed as "under achievers" by fans of peer schools. I believe the thought was "JMU has the pieces to be so much more successful than they are". People attended the JMU CAAT games more because of the band than the product on the court.

I believe the potential ceiling can be pretty darn high. We have a school where kids want to get an education, we have a great social reputation, quality staff, modern infrastructure, a nice college town. The mid Atlantic recruiting pool is strong. We will have a state of the art arena and training facility. Most other sports are consistently successful. I think we have a coach that understands the modern basketball business.

For me, the jury is still out on:
Consistent commitment to MBB by the Administration. Do they buy into the MBB business? Will they invest like they have with FB?
Do the people making decisions understand how and why students attend basketball games?
Fan support. Are we capable of being patient for another 2 or 3 years? This hole is pretty deep.
How long does it take for the "bad taste" to go away in the recruiting world? Making the NCAAT once every 10 or 15 years is not a good selling point to 16 and 17 year old kids.
The one bid CAA is a bad MBB conference and don't see that changing. How do you sell a recruit to play in a CAA type conference where most arena's, home and away are half empty?
In the next 2,3 or 4 years will Coach Byington be able to schedule quality games that can boost our NET and not rely on winning the CAAT?

Success breeds Success. If Coach Byington can get this train rolling, it could be a pretty fun ride. When the roster changes and/or coaches leave, we want to be in the position of reloading instead of rebuilding.

Nice article on Jayvis Harvey with some quotes from Byington.

https://t.co/umcyegMmBr?amp=1

I'm glad he stayed and think Byington will get more out of him.

Not sure where to put this but has anyone been following this Gregg Marshall stuff. Seems like his abuse of power started back at Winthrop. Hard to find a great coach at a mid major who doesn’t let his power go to his head.

Pat Chambers of Penn State steps down based on an internal investigation into his treatment of players.

(10-20-2020 07:48 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Not sure where to put this but has anyone been following this Gregg Marshall stuff. Seems like his abuse of power started back at Winthrop. Hard to find a great coach at a mid major who doesn’t let his power go to his head.

Gregg has been talked about on this board for nearly 2 decades. His teams ran up some impressive stats at Winthrop and there was much discussion on bringing him here. For some reason he did not seem to be a board favorite. Then he went to Wichita State and accomplished the same impressive results at a higher level.

(10-22-2020 07:51 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(10-20-2020 07:48 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Not sure where to put this but has anyone been following this Gregg Marshall stuff. Seems like his abuse of power started back at Winthrop. Hard to find a great coach at a mid major who doesn’t let his power go to his head.

Gregg has been talked about on this board for nearly 2 decades. His teams ran up some impressive stats at Winthrop and there was much discussion on bringing him here. For some reason he did not seem to be a board favorite. Then he went to Wichita State and accomplished the same impressive results at a higher level.

A lot better results- made the final
Four.

(10-20-2020 07:48 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Not sure where to put this but has anyone been following this Gregg Marshall stuff. Seems like his abuse of power started back at Winthrop. Hard to find a great coach at a mid major who doesn’t let his power go to his head.

He has numerous players transfer out and years worth of people and ex-players making claims about that type of behavior. Yet, he also has many successful players, seasons and fans.

Maybe sort of like how the Bobby Knight method ran it's course as times changed.

What do you think, 65-75% chance he's gone?

Gregg Marshall has been known to be a class A a-hole forever. Not sure this is really news to anyone in the industry, but is now coming more to light because more than half his team is transferring.

(07-22-2020 06:06 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Some folks may take this the wrong way and I mean no disrespect to players who have worn the uniform even during the last 20+ years when the MBB program has been by in large a failure. I certainly have respect for the teams in the 70s and 80s and early 90s and want things to return to that but it is so far removed that while I get someone saying they want to engage alumni and bring back tradition I think in reality JMU basketball has to chart its own course and start its own traditions and own winning culture.

Even when Rowe would talk about the good old days aside from a few wins and the shot by Culuko those teams while solid kind of underperformed. They weren’t power houses or model teams by any measure. We can do better than that and we should.

I agree with you - the bridge to the past is too many miles/years at this point. When things finally turn around it will be a new start.

That said - for us veterans who were around 20-30 years ago, plus seeing support for football, really have an appreciation for what JMU/Harrisonburg support can be for a successful Men's basketball program. JMU support for basketball could be on par with Boise State support for football, or San Diego State/Dayton/VCU for basketball.

I view our potential up there with SDSU, Utah St, Grand Canyon. Great arenas and teams for a hungry fanbase.