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2024 Conference Realignment
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #101
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
(03-27-2020 07:28 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  Texas has never tried to protect Baylor, it was then Gov Anne Richards, a bu alum, who forced Baylor into the big 12 despite Houston, SMU and TCU ahead of them in order.
If I could have my way they would be out as of right now. Baylor has shown time and time again that they put sports over everything.. Yet use the church as a way to play victim. I would trade them for a school like Tulane in a heartbeat.
I hope whatever happens in the not too distant future that Baylor gets left out.

Baylor would be a slam dunk for the AAC though I'd have to think.
03-28-2020 03:40 PM
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Post: #102
2024 Conference Realignment
(03-28-2020 03:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(03-27-2020 07:28 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  Texas has never tried to protect Baylor, it was then Gov Anne Richards, a bu alum, who forced Baylor into the big 12 despite Houston, SMU and TCU ahead of them in order.
If I could have my way they would be out as of right now. Baylor has shown time and time again that they put sports over everything.. Yet use the church as a way to play victim. I would trade them for a school like Tulane in a heartbeat.
I hope whatever happens in the not too distant future that Baylor gets left out.

Baylor would be a slam dunk for the AAC though I'd have to think.


Wonder how Houston and SMU would vote (I’ll tell you - no)

TCU would always be welcomed.
03-28-2020 05:23 PM
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Post: #103
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
(03-27-2020 07:28 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  Texas has never tried to protect Baylor, it was then Gov Anne Richards, a bu alum, who forced Baylor into the big 12 despite Houston, SMU and TCU ahead of them in order.
If I could have my way they would be out as of right now. Baylor has shown time and time again that they put sports over everything.. Yet use the church as a way to play victim. I would trade them for a school like Tulane in a heartbeat.
I hope whatever happens in the not too distant future that Baylor gets left out.

The prevailing sentiment in the press at the time of the SWC demise was that Gov. Ann Richards (Baylor) and Lt. Gov. Bob Bullock (Texas Tech undergrad, Baylor law) helped find a home for these schools. More than this, however, the athletic departments at the other schools (particularly SMU and Houston) weren't prepared for the move and were left behind.

Give TCU all the credit for adressing the need to rebuild a crumbling Amon Carter Stadium and developing a steady local attendance base of 38,000-40,000 to give the Big 12 the confidence to add them when the time was right. Meanwhile, to go to an SMU home game (as I have for years, even pre-Ford Stadium) would give no P5 conference the interest in a strategic acquisition. There have been games where the actual attendance (not paid) was, at best, in the 10-14K range in a 32,000 seat facility. I'm not saying SMU can go back to Mustang Mania (there were 49,000 in Texas Stadium in 1979 when they played Rice, of all teams), but SMU has to build a home base before they're going to give Texas or Oklahoma any lost sleep....or lost recruits.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2020 06:12 PM by DFW HOYA.)
03-28-2020 06:10 PM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #104
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
(03-28-2020 01:36 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  
(03-28-2020 12:59 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(03-26-2020 09:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  From JR's equity in athletics chart, below are the Big 12 and Pac 12 schools ranked in revenue. Note that Baylor and WVU are basically equal to the Arizona schools and TCU is basically equal to USC and Kansas:

1. Texas: $215,829,101
2. Oklahoma: $159,286,136

3. Stanford $139,390,932
4. Washington: $133,792,677
5. U.C.L.A.: $127,339,042

6. Kansas: $119,768,008
7. U.S.C.: $118,687,120
8. T.C.U.: $118,496,653
9. Oregon: $108,500,370
10. Arizona: $102,275,918
11. Arizona State: $101,836,361

12. Baylor: $101,243,920
13. West Virginia: $101,095,223

14. Colorado: $98,413,285
15. California: $94,646,123
16. Utah: $94,177,912

17. Oklahoma State: $91,066952
18. Kansas State: $89,919,819
19. Texas Tech: $86,442,709

20. Oregon State: $82,364,021
21. Iowa State: $79,860,045
[i]22. Washington State:

This list is useful as a starting point. You combine the low rankings on this list for WasSt, OreSt, and KSU, with the fact that they are 2nd schools in the same state in the same conference I think that is a good argument to leave those 3 schools out.

Then you consider all the scandals Baylor has had, that may be a good reason to leave Baylor out.

WV is a geographic outlier, I just don't see them having a place in a western based conference.

That narrows it down to 17 schools, which I think could be manageable.

Western-17 Conference

North-5 division
Cal, Stan, Ore, Wash, Utah

South-5
USC, UCLA, Ariz, ASU, Col

Central-7
Tex, TT, TCU, Ok, OkST, Kan, ISU
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2020 07:03 PM by goofus.)
03-28-2020 06:47 PM
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Post: #105
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
(03-28-2020 06:47 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(03-28-2020 01:36 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  
(03-28-2020 12:59 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(03-26-2020 09:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  From JR's equity in athletics chart, below are the Big 12 and Pac 12 schools ranked in revenue. Note that Baylor and WVU are basically equal to the Arizona schools and TCU is basically equal to USC and Kansas:

1. Texas: $215,829,101
2. Oklahoma: $159,286,136

3. Stanford $139,390,932
4. Washington: $133,792,677
5. U.C.L.A.: $127,339,042

6. Kansas: $119,768,008
7. U.S.C.: $118,687,120
8. T.C.U.: $118,496,653
9. Oregon: $108,500,370
10. Arizona: $102,275,918
11. Arizona State: $101,836,361

12. Baylor: $101,243,920
13. West Virginia: $101,095,223

14. Colorado: $98,413,285
15. California: $94,646,123
16. Utah: $94,177,912

17. Oklahoma State: $91,066952
18. Kansas State: $89,919,819
19. Texas Tech: $86,442,709

20. Oregon State: $82,364,021
21. Iowa State: $79,860,045
[i]22. Washington State:

This list is useful as a starting point. You combine the low rankings on this list for WasSt, OreSt, and KSU, with the fact that they are 2nd schools in the same state in the same state I think that is a good argument to leave those 3 schools out.

Then you consider all the scandals Baylor has had, that may be a good reason t leave Baylor out.

WV is a geographic outlier, I just don't see them having a place in a western based conference.

That narrows it down to 17 schools, which I think could be manageable.

Western-17 Conferrnce

North-5 division
Cal, Stan, Ore, Wash, Utah

South-5
USC, UCLA, Ariz, ASU, Col

Central-7
Tex, TT, TCU, Ok, OkST, Kan, ISU

I can't see a conference of 17. One more has got to go. Oklahoma State and Iowa State are both second choice schools. Geography favors Oklahoma State but Iowa State would give this conference a new state.
03-28-2020 07:01 PM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #106
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
(03-28-2020 07:01 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-28-2020 06:47 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(03-28-2020 01:36 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  
(03-28-2020 12:59 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(03-26-2020 09:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  From JR's equity in athletics chart, below are the Big 12 and Pac 12 schools ranked in revenue. Note that Baylor and WVU are basically equal to the Arizona schools and TCU is basically equal to USC and Kansas:

1. Texas: $215,829,101
2. Oklahoma: $159,286,136

3. Stanford $139,390,932
4. Washington: $133,792,677
5. U.C.L.A.: $127,339,042

6. Kansas: $119,768,008
7. U.S.C.: $118,687,120
8. T.C.U.: $118,496,653
9. Oregon: $108,500,370
10. Arizona: $102,275,918
11. Arizona State: $101,836,361

12. Baylor: $101,243,920
13. West Virginia: $101,095,223

14. Colorado: $98,413,285
15. California: $94,646,123
16. Utah: $94,177,912

17. Oklahoma State: $91,066952
18. Kansas State: $89,919,819
19. Texas Tech: $86,442,709

20. Oregon State: $82,364,021
21. Iowa State: $79,860,045
[i]22. Washington State:

This list is useful as a starting point. You combine the low rankings on this list for WasSt, OreSt, and KSU, with the fact that they are 2nd schools in the same state in the same state I think that is a good argument to leave those 3 schools out.

Then you consider all the scandals Baylor has had, that may be a good reason t leave Baylor out.

WV is a geographic outlier, I just don't see them having a place in a western based conference.

That narrows it down to 17 schools, which I think could be manageable.

Western-17 Conferrnce

North-5 division
Cal, Stan, Ore, Wash, Utah

South-5
USC, UCLA, Ariz, ASU, Col

Central-7
Tex, TT, TCU, Ok, OkST, Kan, ISU

I can't see a conference of 17. One more has got to go. Oklahoma State and Iowa State are both second choice schools. Geography favors Oklahoma State but Iowa State would give this conference a new state.

I think ISU has a couple more advantages worth mentioning. The state of Iowa has no pro sports for fans to follow, which helps attendance and TV ratings at least inside Iowa. Also ISU's academic rankings are higher and for now, ISU is still a member of the AAU.

One thing that could help OkSt is if Oklahoma is grabbed by SEC, then OkSt suddenly is more appealing to the new Western conference.
03-28-2020 07:13 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #107
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
(03-28-2020 07:13 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(03-28-2020 07:01 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-28-2020 06:47 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(03-28-2020 01:36 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  
(03-28-2020 12:59 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

This list is useful as a starting point. You combine the low rankings on this list for WasSt, OreSt, and KSU, with the fact that they are 2nd schools in the same state in the same state I think that is a good argument to leave those 3 schools out.

Then you consider all the scandals Baylor has had, that may be a good reason t leave Baylor out.

WV is a geographic outlier, I just don't see them having a place in a western based conference.

That narrows it down to 17 schools, which I think could be manageable.

Western-17 Conferrnce

North-5 division
Cal, Stan, Ore, Wash, Utah

South-5
USC, UCLA, Ariz, ASU, Col

Central-7
Tex, TT, TCU, Ok, OkST, Kan, ISU

I can't see a conference of 17. One more has got to go. Oklahoma State and Iowa State are both second choice schools. Geography favors Oklahoma State but Iowa State would give this conference a new state.

I think ISU has a couple more advantages worth mentioning. The state of Iowa has no pro sports for fans to follow, which helps attendance and TV ratings at least inside Iowa. Also ISU's academic rankings are higher and for now, ISU is still a member of the AAU.

One thing that could help OkSt is if Oklahoma is grabbed by SEC, then OkSt suddenly is more appealing to the new Western conference.

TX and OK are better off continuing in the B12, rather than having to carry a 16 team conference. At least their B12 mates are largely committed to revenue sports. A merger with the PAC would require trimming the fat down to 12 or 14 schools.
03-28-2020 07:31 PM
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Post: #108
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
"TX and OK are better off continuing in the B12, rather than having to carry a 16 team conference. At least their B12 mates are largely committed to revenue sports. A merger with the PAC would require trimming the fat down to 12 or 14 schools."

Besides TX and OK are big fish in a little pond. They "rule the roost" so to speak. And that's the way they like it.
03-28-2020 07:45 PM
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Post: #109
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
(03-28-2020 07:45 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  "TX and OK are better off continuing in the B12, rather than having to carry a 16 team conference. At least their B12 mates are largely committed to revenue sports. A merger with the PAC would require trimming the fat down to 12 or 14 schools."

Besides TX and OK are big fish in a little pond. They "rule the roost" so to speak. And that's the way they like it.

OK is a big fish in a small pond. TX is a big fish in a big pond.
03-28-2020 09:00 PM
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schmolik Online
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Post: #110
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
(03-28-2020 07:45 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  "TX and OK are better off continuing in the B12, rather than having to carry a 16 team conference. At least their B12 mates are largely committed to revenue sports. A merger with the PAC would require trimming the fat down to 12 or 14 schools."

Besides TX and OK are big fish in a little pond. They "rule the roost" so to speak. And that's the way they like it.

It's the job of the networks to take that pond away (unless they like paying for Baylor, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, West Virginia, and TCU, I'll leave out Kansas since their men's basketball is good). Make it so it's not economically feasible for TX/OK to "rule the roost" anymore. ESPN/FOX can say we'll give you 1/5 as much money to subsidize the Little 8, do you still want to do it (or we'll give you 5 times as much money to leave them behind)?
03-28-2020 09:17 PM
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Post: #111
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
(03-28-2020 09:17 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-28-2020 07:45 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  "TX and OK are better off continuing in the B12, rather than having to carry a 16 team conference. At least their B12 mates are largely committed to revenue sports. A merger with the PAC would require trimming the fat down to 12 or 14 schools."

Besides TX and OK are big fish in a little pond. They "rule the roost" so to speak. And that's the way they like it.

It's the job of the networks to take that pond away (unless they like paying for Baylor, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, West Virginia, and TCU, I'll leave out Kansas since their men's basketball is good). Make it so it's not economically feasible for TX/OK to "rule the roost" anymore. ESPN/FOX can say we'll give you 1/5 as much money to subsidize the Little 8, do you still want to do it (or we'll give you 5 times as much money to leave them behind)?

If your suggesting the networks go in together to tel Texas and Oklahoma leave or get paid less, that sounds an awful lot like collusion.
03-28-2020 10:47 PM
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Post: #112
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
(03-28-2020 09:17 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-28-2020 07:45 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  "TX and OK are better off continuing in the B12, rather than having to carry a 16 team conference. At least their B12 mates are largely committed to revenue sports. A merger with the PAC would require trimming the fat down to 12 or 14 schools."

Besides TX and OK are big fish in a little pond. They "rule the roost" so to speak. And that's the way they like it.

It's the job of the networks to take that pond away (unless they like paying for Baylor, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, West Virginia, and TCU, I'll leave out Kansas since their men's basketball is good). Make it so it's not economically feasible for TX/OK to "rule the roost" anymore. ESPN/FOX can say we'll give you 1/5 as much money to subsidize the Little 8, do you still want to do it (or we'll give you 5 times as much money to leave them behind)?

I think the reason they pay for that is because of the Time Zone advantage of being primarily CST. Big 12 and the Big have taken advantage of that noon slot time. Noon kickoffs are starting to really carry weight that only the primetime kickoffs would generate. Also the style of Big 12 play has always been catchy, though it's beginning a new life outside the Air Raid offenses that people had been accustomed to for the past decade.
03-29-2020 08:58 AM
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Post: #113
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
(03-28-2020 06:10 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(03-27-2020 07:28 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  Texas has never tried to protect Baylor, it was then Gov Anne Richards, a bu alum, who forced Baylor into the big 12 despite Houston, SMU and TCU ahead of them in order.
If I could have my way they would be out as of right now. Baylor has shown time and time again that they put sports over everything.. Yet use the church as a way to play victim. I would trade them for a school like Tulane in a heartbeat.
I hope whatever happens in the not too distant future that Baylor gets left out.

The prevailing sentiment in the press at the time of the SWC demise was that Gov. Ann Richards (Baylor) and Lt. Gov. Bob Bullock (Texas Tech undergrad, Baylor law) helped find a home for these schools. More than this, however, the athletic departments at the other schools (particularly SMU and Houston) weren't prepared for the move and were left behind.

Give TCU all the credit for adressing the need to rebuild a crumbling Amon Carter Stadium and developing a steady local attendance base of 38,000-40,000 to give the Big 12 the confidence to add them when the time was right. Meanwhile, to go to an SMU home game (as I have for years, even pre-Ford Stadium) would give no P5 conference the interest in a strategic acquisition. There have been games where the actual attendance (not paid) was, at best, in the 10-14K range in a 32,000 seat facility. I'm not saying SMU can go back to Mustang Mania (there were 49,000 in Texas Stadium in 1979 when they played Rice, of all teams), but SMU has to build a home base before they're going to give Texas or Oklahoma any lost sleep....or lost recruits.

Not sure if you're a recruiting honk, but SMU has really done well taking kids out the DFW area. In fact they have a former 5 star QB in Preston Stone committed in it's 2021 class. They also are the leader for 5 star OT out of Duncanville and are pretty high on 5 star Camar Wheaton. SMU is doing what Houston did several years ago with the whole stay in the city push.
03-29-2020 09:02 AM
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Post: #114
RE: 2024 Conference Realignment
"Not sure if you're a recruiting honk, but SMU has really done well taking kids out the DFW area. In fact they have a former 5 star QB in Preston Stone committed in it's 2021 class. They also are the leader for 5 star OT out of Duncanville and are pretty high on 5 star Camar Wheaton. SMU is doing what Houston did several years ago with the whole stay in the city push."

Good for SMU
03-29-2020 01:54 PM
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