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Kansas should be National Champs
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cubucks Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Kansas should be National Champs
(03-16-2020 09:51 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-16-2020 09:49 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Kansas 2019/20 National Champions.

No thank you.

07-coffee3
I know, it would be hard for me too. I just can't get past the regular season not having a meaning on a national scale.
03-16-2020 10:01 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Kansas should be National Champs
(03-16-2020 10:01 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(03-16-2020 09:51 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-16-2020 09:49 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Kansas 2019/20 National Champions.

No thank you.

07-coffee3
I know, it would be hard for me too. I just can't get past the regular season not having a meaning on a national scale.

To me, the season was what it was - we enjoyed the four months of college basketball that we got, but in the end it was left unfinished with no process concluded to validly determine a champ.
03-16-2020 10:15 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Kansas should be National Champs
(03-16-2020 09:49 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Kansas 2019/20 National Champions. Place one of these >* next to it and let's move on. I'm good with it because the regular season had to matter for something.

Conferences award regular season titles, programs have something to put in the rafters from this season should they chose to do so, and whatever one thinks of a "regular season championship" (I think they're bizarre), they're at least earned on the court. Awarding a tournament championship for a tournament that never happened based on a sportswriter's opinion poll is way more convoluted than just acknowledging that the tournament was cancelled in the official books.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2020 10:21 AM by Bogg.)
03-16-2020 10:20 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Kansas should be National Champs
(03-15-2020 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 11:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 11:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 11:11 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  If I'm Dayton or Gonzaga or SDSU, I'd hang a national championship banner for 2020.

Why them? Why not 20 other teams?

Because they're the only ones with any data to back them up, other than Kansas.

I just looked at Dayton's schedule. They have a 29-2 record, but only 4 games played vs P5 teams. They are 27-0 vs non-P5, but 2-2 vs P5 teams. That's "data" to be national champs?

And "Data" means nothing in college hoops, you have to win the tournament. Any school that hangs a banner is just being absurd, like UCF in 2017.

We know, e.g., that in the last 20 years, the team with the best data going in has only won the title two times. Means zero.

Kansas claims the 1922 and 1923 national championships based on retroactive awards from the Helms Athletic Foundation, which was founded in 1936. Kansas didn't play in any tournaments in either year.
[Image: kansas-jayhawks-national-championship-ba...?s=612x612]


Butler claims the 1924 and 1929 national titles.

The 1924 national title claim is based on winning the AAU tournament. But they went 9-7.

The 1929 title claim is based on an award from the Veteran Athletes' Association of Philadelphia.
[Image: 28911775001_6010193415001_6010185865001-...8911775001]

North Carolina contests Butler's 1924 title claim. UNC went 28-0 that year and was awarded the title retroactively by the Helms Athletic Foundation. UNC did not win any tournaments that year other than the Southern Conference tourney:
[Image: 163953379.jpg.0.jpg]



Montana State contests Butler's 1929 title claim based on their 36-2 record and a retroactive award from the Helms Athletic Foundation. You can just barely see it in this picture on the left:

[Image: Screen-Shot-2019-08-06-at-10.10.59-AM-900x696.png]
03-16-2020 10:51 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Kansas should be National Champs
(03-16-2020 10:51 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(03-15-2020 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 11:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 11:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 11:11 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  If I'm Dayton or Gonzaga or SDSU, I'd hang a national championship banner for 2020.

Why them? Why not 20 other teams?

Because they're the only ones with any data to back them up, other than Kansas.

I just looked at Dayton's schedule. They have a 29-2 record, but only 4 games played vs P5 teams. They are 27-0 vs non-P5, but 2-2 vs P5 teams. That's "data" to be national champs?

And "Data" means nothing in college hoops, you have to win the tournament. Any school that hangs a banner is just being absurd, like UCF in 2017.

We know, e.g., that in the last 20 years, the team with the best data going in has only won the title two times. Means zero.

Kansas claims the 1922 and 1923 national championships based on retroactive awards from the Helms Athletic Foundation, which was founded in 1936. Kansas didn't play in any tournaments in either year.

Yes, in another thread, someone suggested that Kansas would not stoop to adding a banner for this year because they are a Blue Blood and thus would only consider NCAA tournament championships to be real national championships.

I then pointed out that Kansas did claim two retrospective "Helms" championships, so if they are capable of claiming those bogus titles, they are capable of claiming most anything, LOL.

But the issue isn't whether Kansas will try to claim this year's title, it's whether they should, and if they do, whether anyone else should regard the claim as valid.

And to me, the clear answers are No and No.
03-16-2020 11:09 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Kansas should be National Champs
(03-16-2020 10:51 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(03-15-2020 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 11:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 11:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 11:11 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  If I'm Dayton or Gonzaga or SDSU, I'd hang a national championship banner for 2020.

Why them? Why not 20 other teams?

Because they're the only ones with any data to back them up, other than Kansas.

I just looked at Dayton's schedule. They have a 29-2 record, but only 4 games played vs P5 teams. They are 27-0 vs non-P5, but 2-2 vs P5 teams. That's "data" to be national champs?

And "Data" means nothing in college hoops, you have to win the tournament. Any school that hangs a banner is just being absurd, like UCF in 2017.

We know, e.g., that in the last 20 years, the team with the best data going in has only won the title two times. Means zero.

Kansas claims the 1922 and 1923 national championships based on retroactive awards from the Helms Athletic Foundation, which was founded in 1936. Kansas didn't play in any tournaments in either year.
[Image: kansas-jayhawks-national-championship-ba...?s=612x612]


Butler claims the 1924 and 1929 national titles.

The 1924 national title claim is based on winning the AAU tournament. But they went 9-7.

The 1929 title claim is based on an award from the Veteran Athletes' Association of Philadelphia.
[Image: 28911775001_6010193415001_6010185865001-...8911775001]

North Carolina contests Butler's 1924 title claim. UNC went 28-0 that year and was awarded the title retroactively by the Helms Athletic Foundation. UNC did not win any tournaments that year other than the Southern Conference tourney:
[Image: 163953379.jpg.0.jpg]



Montana State contests Butler's 1929 title claim based on their 36-2 record and a retroactive award from the Helms Athletic Foundation. You can just barely see it in this picture on the left:

[Image: Screen-Shot-2019-08-06-at-10.10.59-AM-900x696.png]

Sort of crazy that Kansas only really has 3 consensus national titles.
03-16-2020 12:59 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Kansas should be National Champs
(03-14-2020 02:34 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 01:15 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Win it on the court or you haven't won it at all.

so why did you they all play the regular season? you can't crown a champ from the regular season? college football did it that way for DECADES

Was the regular season played on the court?

And few were reasonably happy with that.
03-16-2020 02:25 PM
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EvilVodka Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Kansas should be National Champs
AP Poll comes out with their final poll: Kansas #1

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...he-season/

If I am Kansas, I put a banner up. 2020 National Champs
03-18-2020 02:59 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Kansas should be National Champs
(03-18-2020 02:59 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  AP Poll comes out with their final poll: Kansas #1

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...he-season/

If I am Kansas, I put a banner up. 2020 National Champs

.... and if I am the rest of the country I 03-lmfao at that.

07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 03-18-2020 03:46 PM by quo vadis.)
03-18-2020 03:45 PM
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BewareThePhog Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Kansas should be National Champs
My own take as a KU fan is that we should put up something distinctive for this season, yet separate from the title banners.

They hang by themselves on one wall of the Fieldhouse, with "National Champions" and the year on them. Blue print on white background.

Along the center line of the arena in similar colors are a series of Final Four banners, along with a series of banners by decade for conference championships, with a given banner having multiple years on it if we won more than one in that decade.

In this case, I'd hang a Big XII champions banner with just 2020 on it, and keep it separate even if we were to win more this decade. I thought of putting some reference to the final polls on it, but instead perhaps I'd just change the colors (Perhaps white letters outlined in red on a blue background) to be distinctive.

It's not the same as winning the tournament and I'll certainly concede that. At the same time, the circumstances are outside of anyone's control, and it's quite reasonable to recognize in some unique fashion this season's body of work.
03-20-2020 02:56 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Kansas should be National Champs
ESPN is desperate. I had to read this just because it was such a weird idea. A tourney bracket for 1994 to present picking the top 4 at each seed.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket...t-25-years
03-20-2020 10:18 PM
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CoachMaclid Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Kansas should be National Champs
(03-20-2020 02:56 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  My own take as a KU fan is that we should put up something distinctive for this season, yet separate from the title banners.

I think if I were Kansas, I would add a similar white banner of equal prominence, but instead of "National Champions", I'd put "National #1 Ranking". I think it conveys that you finished the year ranked as the top team in the nation and gives a similar honor to the 2020 team, but also conveys that there was no national championship tournament.
03-20-2020 11:03 PM
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