What’s your take on the best format for a 16 team conference, should we ever see one again in FBS football?

Voted divisionless with two permanent rivals:

SEC + Texas + Oklahoma:

Alabama: Auburn, LSU
Arkansas: Missouri, Oklahoma
Auburn: Alabama, Georgia
Florida: Georgia, South Carolina
Georgia: Auburn, Florida
Kentucky: South Carolina, Tennessee
LSU: Alabama, Texas A&M
Mississippi: Mississippi State, Missouri
Mississippi State: Missouri, Vanderbilt
Missouri: Arkansas, Mississippi
Oklahoma: Arkansas, Texas
South Carolina: Florida, Kentucky
Tennessee: Kentucky, Vanderbilt
Texas: Oklahoma, Texas A&M
Texas A&M: LSU, Texas
Vanderbilt: Mississippi State, Tennessee

A few were "leftover" ones.

Big Ten + Texas + Oklahoma:

Illinois: Indiana, Northwestern
Indiana: Illinois, Purdue
Iowa: Minnesota, Nebraska
Maryland: Penn State, Rutgers
Michigan: Michigan State, Ohio State
Michigan State: Michigan, Purdue
Minnesota: Iowa, Wisconsin
Nebraska: Iowa, Oklahoma
Northwestern: Illinois, Rutgers
Ohio State: Michigan, Penn State
Oklahoma: Nebraska, Texas
Penn State: Maryland, Ohio State
Purdue: Indiana, Michigan State
Rutgers: Maryland, Northwestern
Texas: Oklahoma, Wisconsin
Wisconsin: Minnesota, Texas

Divisionless with 3 permanent rivals because it allows a rotation of playing the other 12 teams every other year (6 per year). So, every athlete competes on every campus at least once in a 4 year career. That is 9 conference games a year, so conferences could easily arrange a cross-conference agreement for home-home so that every school has 5 major home games per season. The two remaining games on a 12 game schedule could be whatever they want: major money neutral site, more home-home, etc.

(03-14-2020 10:35 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  What’s your take on the best format for a 16 team conference, should we ever see one again in FBS football?

Depends on the conference. Pac 16 is 2 divisions of 8. Others might be 2 divisions of 8 or 4 rotating pods of 4. Depends on how the rivalries are situated.

Divisionless is a total mess with 16.

I miscounted. If a 16 team conference plays a 9 game conference schedule, they need three permanent rivals. If they play 8, they only need one.

8 game schedule:
SEC + Texas + Oklahoma:
Alabama/Auburn, Florida/Georgia, Tennessee/Vanderbilt, South Carolina/Kentucky (by default)
Texas/Oklahoma, LSU/Texas A&M, Arkansas/Missouri, Mississippi/Mississippi State

Big Ten + Texas + Oklahoma:
Michigan/Ohio State, Indiana/Purdue, Penn State/Michigan State, Maryland/Rutgers
Texas/Oklahoma, Illinois/Wisconsin, Wisconsin/Minnesota, Iowa/Nebraska

9 game schedule:

SEC + Texas + Oklahoma:

Alabama: Auburn, LSU, Tennessee
Arkansas: Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas
Auburn: Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi State
Florida: Georgia, LSU, South Carolina
Georgia: Auburn, Florida, South Carolina
Kentucky: Missouri, South Carolina, Tennessee
LSU: Alabama, Florida, Texas A&M
Mississippi: Mississippi State, Missouri, Vanderbilt
Mississippi State: Auburn, Missouri, Vanderbilt
Missouri: Arkansas, Kentucky, Mississippi
Oklahoma: Arkansas, Texas, Texas A&M
South Carolina: Florida, Georgia, Kentucky
Tennessee: Alabama, Kentucky, Vanderbilt
Texas: Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M
Texas A&M: LSU, Oklahoma, Texas
Vanderbilt: Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee

A few were "leftover" ones.

Big Ten + Texas + Oklahoma:

Illinois: Indiana, Maryland, Northwestern
Indiana: Illinois, Purdue, Rutgers
Iowa: Minnesota, Nebraska, Oklahoma
Maryland: Illinois, Penn State, Rutgers
Michigan: Michigan State, Minnesota, Ohio State
Michigan State: Michigan, Penn State, Purdue
Minnesota: Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin
Nebraska: Iowa, Oklahoma, Texas
Northwestern: Illinois, Rutgers, Purdue
Ohio State: Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin
Oklahoma: Iowa, Nebraska, Texas
Penn State: Maryland, Michigan State, Ohio State
Purdue: Indiana, Michigan State, Northwestern
Rutgers: Indiana, Maryland, Northwestern
Texas: Nebraska, Oklahoma, Wisconsin
Wisconsin: Minnesota, Ohio State, Texas

(03-15-2020 08:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-14-2020 10:35 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  What’s your take on the best format for a 16 team conference, should we ever see one again in FBS football?

Depends on the conference. Pac 16 is 2 divisions of 8. Others might be 2 divisions of 8 or 4 rotating pods of 4. Depends on how the rivalries are situated.

Divisionless is a total mess with 16.

Divisionless with 16 teams, a 9-game conference schedule, and 3 protected annual opponents actually works out quite nicely.

(03-15-2020 08:52 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 08:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-14-2020 10:35 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  What’s your take on the best format for a 16 team conference, should we ever see one again in FBS football?

Depends on the conference. Pac 16 is 2 divisions of 8. Others might be 2 divisions of 8 or 4 rotating pods of 4. Depends on how the rivalries are situated.

Divisionless is a total mess with 16.

Divisionless with 16 teams, a 9-game conference schedule, and 3 protected annual opponents actually works out quite nicely.

You could have 3 or 4 unbeaten teams. Its a ridiculous mess.

Big 10 had two with Iowa and Ohio St. with an 11 team league and 8 game schedule. Unbalanced schedules helped several teams win the conference, Northwestern one notable.

4 pods of 4 teams each. Rotate the pods into 8-team divisions. After 3 or 4 years, the most valuable athletic programs get tired of it, put together a group of 8, form a new conference, and leave the other 8 schools out on the curb.

Nah, that could never happen.

16x5

(03-16-2020 01:44 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  16x5

80's the largest group of "power" teams of any proposal I've seen here. What are the conferences/teams?

(03-16-2020 01:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 08:52 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 08:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-14-2020 10:35 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  What’s your take on the best format for a 16 team conference, should we ever see one again in FBS football?

Depends on the conference. Pac 16 is 2 divisions of 8. Others might be 2 divisions of 8 or 4 rotating pods of 4. Depends on how the rivalries are situated.

Divisionless is a total mess with 16.

Divisionless with 16 teams, a 9-game conference schedule, and 3 protected annual opponents actually works out quite nicely.

You could have 3 or 4 unbeaten teams. Its a ridiculous mess.

Big 10 had two with Iowa and Ohio St. with an 11 team league and 8 game schedule. Unbalanced schedules helped several teams win the conference, Northwestern one notable.

In the championship game era, 2 undefeated teams would meet in a conference championship game. Now if 3 there were undefeated teams we'd have a problem. The Big 12 doesn't have too many problems with ties since everyone plays everyone. With 16 teams and not everyone playing everyone, ties could potentially be a problem.

The advantage of no divisions is the permanent rivals can be more flexible and certainly can be changed if needed. Certainly if you go to pods of four, each team's three permanent rivals are the three divisional teams. Do they lose much compared to the lists above?

Big Ten + Texas + Oklahoma:

Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State
Indiana, Purdue, Maryland, Rutgers
Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota
Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Iowa

The top group would be pretty tough but FOX or ESPN would want the four together to make sure they play every year and Michigan and Michigan State would want to play every year.

SEC + Texas + Oklahoma:

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia
Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, LSU
South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Mississippi State

If you wanted to balance it out, you could put Ala/Aub and Tenn/Vbilt together but you split Aub/Ga and Ky/Tenn plus ESPN/ABC would rather have the big guns play more often.

Finally, Pac 12 + Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Kansas

UCLA, USC, California Berkeley, Stanford
Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State
Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Kansas

If they did divisionless and three permanent rivals, each team probably would get assigned the same three teams anyway.

(03-16-2020 01:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 08:52 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 08:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-14-2020 10:35 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  What’s your take on the best format for a 16 team conference, should we ever see one again in FBS football?

Depends on the conference. Pac 16 is 2 divisions of 8. Others might be 2 divisions of 8 or 4 rotating pods of 4. Depends on how the rivalries are situated.

Divisionless is a total mess with 16.

Divisionless with 16 teams, a 9-game conference schedule, and 3 protected annual opponents actually works out quite nicely.

You could have 3 or 4 unbeaten teams. Its a ridiculous mess.

Big 10 had two with Iowa and Ohio St. with an 11 team league and 8 game schedule. Unbalanced schedules helped several teams win the conference, Northwestern one notable.

Certainly possible to have more than 2 teams unbeaten, at least in conference, but likely so rare as to be a non-issue. If it's a real concern, the rotating opponents can be scheduled such that there are 2 roughly distinct scheduling groups each year (like quasi-divisions), making it even less likely the regular season would end with multiple teams undefeated in conference.

If there are going to be divisions, four rotating pods of four would be fine. This still allows for three permanent rivals.

I voted for three permanent rivals + 12 rotating teams. If the NCAA allows conferences to have 16 teams without a division, three permanent rivals + 12 rotating teams is a good thing, provided you can allow a team to play in each conference stadium in a student athlete's career. There have been proposals for this in the SEC with their current 14 team lineup.

There is no reason for a team to go eight years without playing a fellow conference member, as happened last season with Georgia and Texas A&M.

The Big Ten at 16 works great as a 3 permanent rivals + 6 rotating (12 schools played ever other year)

Rutgers: M’land Penn St Ohio St
Maryland: RUT Penn St Mich
Penn St: Mich St Rut M’land
Ohio St: Mich Rut Mich St
Mich: Ohio St Mich St M’land
Mich St: Penn St Mich Ohio St
Indiana: PUR ILL NW
Purdue: IND NW ILL
Illinois: NW IND PUR
N’western: Ill PUR IND
Wisconsin: Iowa Minn okla
Minn: Wisconsin Iowa Kan
Iowa: Wisconsin Minn Nebr
Nebraska: Okla Kan Iowa
Kansas: Nebr Okla Minn
Oklahoma: Nebr Kan Wisconsin

some slight wiggling might need some among the eastern schools so that Mich St’s schedule isn’t so brutal.

(03-16-2020 07:17 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The Big Ten at 16 works great as a 3 permanent rivals + 6 rotating (12 schools played ever other year)

Rutgers: M’land Penn St Ohio St
Maryland: RUT Penn St Mich
Penn St: Mich St Rut M’land
Ohio St: Mich Rut Mich St
Mich: Ohio St Mich St M’land
Mich St: Penn St Mich Ohio St
Indiana: PUR ILL NW
Purdue: IND NW ILL
Illinois: NW IND PUR
N’western: Ill PUR IND
Wisconsin: Iowa Minn okla
Minn: Wisconsin Iowa Kan
Iowa: Wisconsin Minn Nebr
Nebraska: Okla Kan Iowa
Kansas: Nebr Okla Minn
Oklahoma: Nebr Kan Wisconsin

some slight wiggling might need some among the eastern schools so that Mich St’s schedule isn’t so brutal.

Why no OSU/PSU? You don't consider Penn State your second biggest Big Ten rival now? If TV ratings are a factor, it's regularly the 2nd biggest draw, I would guess any network would want them playing every year. As a Penn State fan, I'd want them 1st on the list although obviously Michigan is 1st on OSU's list.

I love the Penn St games—it’s always a great match up and an electric environment. The two programs have a ton of respect for each other. The trouble I had was trying to fit in match ups for the Land Grant Trophy (typically a final game of the season for both schools), Maryland, Rutgers, and Ohio St into Penn St’s permanent rotation. I suppose you could sacrifice the Land Grant Game so Penn St could keep Ohio St.

(03-16-2020 05:50 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 01:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 08:52 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 08:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-14-2020 10:35 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  What’s your take on the best format for a 16 team conference, should we ever see one again in FBS football?

Depends on the conference. Pac 16 is 2 divisions of 8. Others might be 2 divisions of 8 or 4 rotating pods of 4. Depends on how the rivalries are situated.

Divisionless is a total mess with 16.

Divisionless with 16 teams, a 9-game conference schedule, and 3 protected annual opponents actually works out quite nicely.

You could have 3 or 4 unbeaten teams. Its a ridiculous mess.

Big 10 had two with Iowa and Ohio St. with an 11 team league and 8 game schedule. Unbalanced schedules helped several teams win the conference, Northwestern one notable.

Certainly possible to have more than 2 teams unbeaten, at least in conference, but likely so rare as to be a non-issue. If it's a real concern, the rotating opponents can be scheduled such that there are 2 roughly distinct scheduling groups each year (like quasi-divisions), making it even less likely the regular season would end with multiple teams undefeated in conference.

Well its likely to have multiple ties with one loss or two losses and you are left with lousy tiebreaks because everyone won't have played head to head.

(03-16-2020 08:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 05:50 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 01:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 08:52 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 08:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  Depends on the conference. Pac 16 is 2 divisions of 8. Others might be 2 divisions of 8 or 4 rotating pods of 4. Depends on how the rivalries are situated.

Divisionless is a total mess with 16.

Divisionless with 16 teams, a 9-game conference schedule, and 3 protected annual opponents actually works out quite nicely.

You could have 3 or 4 unbeaten teams. Its a ridiculous mess.

Big 10 had two with Iowa and Ohio St. with an 11 team league and 8 game schedule. Unbalanced schedules helped several teams win the conference, Northwestern one notable.

Certainly possible to have more than 2 teams unbeaten, at least in conference, but likely so rare as to be a non-issue. If it's a real concern, the rotating opponents can be scheduled such that there are 2 roughly distinct scheduling groups each year (like quasi-divisions), making it even less likely the regular season would end with multiple teams undefeated in conference.

Well its likely to have multiple ties with one loss or two losses and you are left with lousy tiebreaks because everyone won't have played head to head.

That's bound to happen with a sport in which so few games are played in a season. Not really a problem except maybe for some purists. <insert shrugging emoji>

(03-16-2020 02:41 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 01:44 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  16x5

80's the largest group of "power" teams of any proposal I've seen here. What are the conferences/teams?

IDK, I just don't buy into the idea that the highest level of CFB will shrink to 16, 32 or 64 teams as many suggest on here. There's no way you are going to be politically able to shed so many schools without a major fight. Even if you do you might end up killing the sport for everyone once and for all.

(03-17-2020 06:56 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 02:41 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 01:44 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  16x5

80's the largest group of "power" teams of any proposal I've seen here. What are the conferences/teams?

IDK, I just don't buy into the idea that the highest level of CFB will shrink to 16, 32 or 64 teams as many suggest on here. There's no way you are going to be politically able to shed so many schools without a major fight. Even if you do you might end up killing the sport for everyone once and for all.

Who suggested 16 or 32 teams? 64 yes but that would be shedding a net of one school if you assume Notre Dame is part of the "Power 5". Certainly there is merit to the "Super Two" concept of only the Big Ten and SEC being relevant and everyone else not. I highly doubt it's just going to be 32 teams in those two conferences and everyone else getting shut out and some of the proposals for "two super conferences" are so big and geographically large (Big Ten and Pac-12 merging) that eventually the chances of a MWC split are pretty big and we'd probably be right back where we started from.