(10-21-2020 03:26 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Lockdown's lethal toll laid bare: 50,000 children see surgery postponed, treatments for strokes plunge by almost 50%, and one in FIVE people were hit with depression in just one month as devastating effect of coronavirus restrictions are revealed 





https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...ssion=true

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Those are UK numbers, so unsure how their system functioned given the socialized NHS...but in the US, postponed surgeries were either elective and therefore less important or they were simply not performed due to a patient's fear of entering a hospital. Same with stroke care. Any care that was needed for truly dangerous conditions would have been readily available, even in the most locked-down states.

Depression numbers are believable.

Remdesivir approved finally, but unfortunately one recent study showed ineffective, so jury still out.

I don't get this. What has changed since August? Either A) the gov needlessly damaged our economy, enforced ridiculous mandates, and canceled school/activities for nothing or B) things have drastically improved and safety is no longer a concern.

Governor’s executive order allows high school sports to restart in December



https://www.pilotonline.com/757teamz/vp-...ssion=true

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(10-31-2020 06:37 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I don't get this. What has changed since August? Either A) the gov needlessly damaged our economy, enforced ridiculous mandates, and canceled school/activities for nothing or B) things have drastically improved and safety is no longer a concern.

Governor’s executive order allows high school sports to restart in December



https://www.pilotonline.com/757teamz/vp-...ssion=true

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Before the election vs. after the election. There is no need to wreck the economy, enforce ridiculous mandates and cancel school once the election has been held, perhaps?

It definitely doesn't make sense, especially with cases rising across the country. Unless VA is some kind of miracle state? But I don't think that's the case. Especially wrestling... that doesn't make any sense at all.

(10-23-2020 03:05 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  

(10-21-2020 03:26 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Lockdown's lethal toll laid bare: 50,000 children see surgery postponed, treatments for strokes plunge by almost 50%, and one in FIVE people were hit with depression in just one month as devastating effect of coronavirus restrictions are revealed 



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...ssion=true

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Those are UK numbers, so unsure how their system functioned given the socialized NHS...but in the US, postponed surgeries were either elective and therefore less important or they were simply not performed due to a patient's fear of entering a hospital. Same with stroke care. Any care that was needed for truly dangerous conditions would have been readily available, even in the most locked-down states.

Depression numbers are believable.

Remdesivir approved finally, but unfortunately one recent study showed ineffective, so jury still out.

Our son had a successful, emergency appendectomy at Children's Hosp of Philadelphia back in July, when COVID numbers were spiking. The place was empty.

(11-01-2020 08:55 AM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  

(10-23-2020 03:05 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  

(10-21-2020 03:26 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Lockdown's lethal toll laid bare: 50,000 children see surgery postponed, treatments for strokes plunge by almost 50%, and one in FIVE people were hit with depression in just one month as devastating effect of coronavirus restrictions are revealed 



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...ssion=true

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Those are UK numbers, so unsure how their system functioned given the socialized NHS...but in the US, postponed surgeries were either elective and therefore less important or they were simply not performed due to a patient's fear of entering a hospital. Same with stroke care. Any care that was needed for truly dangerous conditions would have been readily available, even in the most locked-down states.

Depression numbers are believable.

Remdesivir approved finally, but unfortunately one recent study showed ineffective, so jury still out.

Our son had a successful, emergency appendectomy at Children's Hosp of Philadelphia back in July, when COVID numbers were spiking. The place was empty.

Philly numbers
-July Philly had positivity rate ~3%, which was near lowest levels achieved
-Positivity rate is the key to understanding penetration into community
-Big tertiary/quarternary care referral hospitals such as CHOP, which are usually full of out-of-staters looking for "the best," were especially likely to have been empty due to elective cases being postponed out of fear of travel.
https://www.phila.gov/programs/coronavir...nd-data/#/

The VHSL thing is bizarre, but Im guessing there was tremendous pressure to try it out and he can always walk this back based on data and/or continued rise in cases.

(10-31-2020 06:37 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I don't get this. What has changed since August? Either A) the gov needlessly damaged our economy, enforced ridiculous mandates, and canceled school/activities for nothing or B) things have drastically improved and safety is no longer a concern.

Governor’s executive order allows high school sports to restart in December



https://www.pilotonline.com/757teamz/vp-...ssion=true

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Schools in various parts of the country have been playing sports and attending school in person. What does the data show is happening in these places?

Honestly I have no idea what the data says, but we should have 2 months of it now, and whatever is happening where the kids are in school SHOULD be informing decisions elsewhere but the best way forward.

(11-01-2020 04:28 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(10-31-2020 06:37 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I don't get this. What has changed since August? Either A) the gov needlessly damaged our economy, enforced ridiculous mandates, and canceled school/activities for nothing or B) things have drastically improved and safety is no longer a concern.

Governor’s executive order allows high school sports to restart in December



https://www.pilotonline.com/757teamz/vp-...ssion=true

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Schools in various parts of the country have been playing sports and attending school in person. What does the data show is happening in these places?

Honestly I have no idea what the data says, but we should have 2 months of it now, and whatever is happening where the kids are in school SHOULD be informing decisions elsewhere but the best way forward.

For me it's more that the number of cases has been rising so much over the past few weeks. If we were flat, I'd agree, but the country just hit new highs in cases per day. This seems like something that could have waited, or could have been announced as "we're planning for this if the number of cases go back down".

A Sensible and Compassionate Anti-COVID Strategy

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/sensible-...urce=email

If the author is correct, we wrecked our economy for nothing. It also shows that the entire planet was not ready for a pandemic. Let's hope the author is correct and we can begin normal human interactions soon.

Hundreds (or was it thousands) of worldwide epidemiologists and health experts signed a letter discrediting this document. Apparently the writer is writing outside of his field of expertise. I'm sure our resident expert Nogretheogre can provide all the details.

I am by no means an expert in epidemiology or virology. One thing I am sure of, is understanding the limits of my knowledge base and not trying to "outsmart the experts" or believe conspiracy theories. Common sense approaches to this problem have seemingly worked when implemented around the world...yet here we are. We're number One!!!???? :/

Plenty of sourced quotes on what the scientific world thinks here, if youd like a long laundry list of the problems with the article...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barr...eclaration

The Infectious Diseases Society of America, representing over 12,000 doctors and scientists, released a statement calling the Great Barrington Declaration's proposals "inappropriate, irresponsible and ill-informed"

https://www.businessinsider.com/herd-imm...?r=US&IR=T

https://www.niskanencenter.org/the-usefu...claration/

(11-01-2020 06:47 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  If the author is correct, we wrecked our economy for nothing. It also shows that the entire planet was not ready for a pandemic. Let's hope the author is correct and we can begin normal human interactions soon.

Hope alone has not yet been shown to be an effective strategy, unfortunately.

It’s Evolving: Coronavirus Genetic Mutation May Have Made COVID-19 More Contagious



https://scitechdaily.com/its-evolving-co...ontagious/

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(11-01-2020 05:18 PM)wanm65 Wrote:  A Sensible and Compassionate Anti-COVID Strategy

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/sensible-...urce=email

_____________________________________________________________________It is obvious from many of the respondents to this post that most people did not bother to read the Imprimis essay; either that, or they did not comprehend what they read.

Let me try to summarize for those who did not read. The document was developed by a group of well-known scientists and doctors and epidemiologists meeting in Great Barrington Mass. They are all senior people in their fields; one from Stanford U, one from Harvard U, and one from Oxford [in England] U. To date, the "Declaration" has been signed/approved by over 40,000 Medical professionals worldwide. The author of the imprimis essay is one of the three scientists who developed the Declaration. And he is from Stanford - if you click on the imprimis article, you can read his qualifications, which are included in the essay overview.

The essay itself expands and clarifies the actual "Declaration" document. The first point is that the data now being collected is essentially meaningless and misunderstood. What does a "confirmed diagnosis of Covid" actually mean?? This is a highly publicized statistic that is reported on a daily by all Media outlets and drives all of our strategy to fight the pandemic. But, if you put meaningless data into the computer, the resulting "solutions" usually makes the recommended "Cure" worse than the illness.

(11-01-2020 11:04 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  I am by no means an expert in epidemiology or virology. One thing I am sure of, is understanding the limits of my knowledge base and not trying to "outsmart the experts" or believe conspiracy theories. Common sense approaches to this problem have seemingly worked when implemented around the world...yet here we are. We're number One!!!???? :/

Plenty of sourced quotes on what the scientific world thinks here, if youd like a long laundry list of the problems with the article...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barr...eclaration

The Infectious Diseases Society of America, representing over 12,000 doctors and scientists, released a statement calling the Great Barrington Declaration's proposals "inappropriate, irresponsible and ill-informed"

https://www.businessinsider.com/herd-imm...?r=US&IR=T

https://www.niskanencenter.org/the-usefu...claration/

(11-02-2020 10:49 AM)62Indian Wrote:  

(11-01-2020 05:18 PM)wanm65 Wrote:  A Sensible and Compassionate Anti-COVID Strategy

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/sensible-...urce=email

_____________________________________________________________________It is obvious from many of the respondents to this post that most people did not bother to read the Imprimis essay; either that, or they did not comprehend what they read.

Let me try to summarize for those who did not read. The document was developed by a group of well-known scientists and doctors and epidemiologists meeting in Great Barrington Mass. They are all senior people in their fields; one from Stanford U, one from Harvard U, and one from Oxford [in England] U. To date, the "Declaration" has been signed/approved by over 40,000 Medical professionals worldwide. The author of the imprimis essay is one of the three scientists who developed the Declaration. And he is from Stanford - if you click on the imprimis article, you can read his qualifications, which are included in the essay overview.

I would recommend reading the links nogre provided.

(11-02-2020 10:49 AM)62Indian Wrote:  

(11-01-2020 05:18 PM)wanm65 Wrote:  A Sensible and Compassionate Anti-COVID Strategy

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/sensible-...urce=email

_____________________________________________________________________It is obvious from many of the respondents to this post that most people did not bother to read the Imprimis essay; either that, or they did not comprehend what they read.

Let me try to summarize for those who did not read. The document was developed by a group of well-known scientists and doctors and epidemiologists meeting in Great Barrington Mass. They are all senior people in their fields; one from Stanford U, one from Harvard U, and one from Oxford [in England] U. To date, the "Declaration" has been signed/approved by over 40,000 Medical professionals worldwide. The author of the imprimis essay is one of the three scientists who developed the Declaration. And he is from Stanford - if you click on the imprimis article, you can read his qualifications, which are included in the essay overview.

The essay itself expands and clarifies the actual "Declaration" document. The first point is that the data now being collected is essentially meaningless and misunderstood. What does a "confirmed diagnosis of Covid" actually mean?? This is a highly publicized statistic that is reported on a daily by all Media outlets and drives all of our strategy to fight the pandemic. But, if you put meaningless data into the computer, the resulting "solutions" usually makes the recommended "Cure" worse than the illness.

Let's just be sure of the 40,000 "Medical Professionals" qualifications....

"As of Tuesday, more than 30,000 academics, medical practitioners and public health scientists from the U.S., U.K. and other nations had allegedly signed the declaration, according to its website, marking the largest split from the prevailing scientific support for lockdowns as an anti-coronavirus strategy.

Sky News, however, found that the declaration contained numerous fake names including “Dr Johnny Bananas,” “Professor Cominic Dummings,” a person residing at the “university of your mum” and a professed specialist whose name was the first verse of the “Macarena,” according to the Guardian. There were also more than 100 therapists and homeopaths, who listed themselves as experts in fields ranging from massage to hypnotherapy."

https://www.sfgate.com/science/article/S...644375.php

Qualified scientists can disagree -- that's how science works (or is supposed to). I look forward to Wednesday, when epidemiology and public health debate can resume their ordinary course without being freighted any longer with the distraction of political considerations.

On a related topic, anytime you open a document to online signatures, idiots will put in phony names. More so when the topic is a political football (see above).

(11-02-2020 11:43 AM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  Qualified scientists can disagree -- that's how science works (or is supposed to). I look forward to Wednesday, when epidemiology and public health debate can resume their ordinary course without being freighted any longer with the distraction of political considerations.

On a related topic, anytime you open a document to online signatures, idiots will put in phony names. More so when the topic is a political football (see above).

Well said and I agree.

Mid October spike in Covid on campus was attributed to false positives.
http://flathatnews.com/2020/11/03/covid-...positives/