SOURCES: The CAA conference is expected to announce tomorrow that the league will not be playing football this fall.

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(07-16-2020 06:03 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 04:40 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 04:14 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 02:52 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 11:23 AM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  The high number of deaths in the NE states of Mass, NY, NJ and CT was not due to their mismanagement of the crisis. That is a partisan shot that ignores the evolution of the pandemic

As of right now the number of new cases is surging and the the number fo new cases in counties won by Donald Trump now exceeds new cases in counties won by Hillary Clinton.

You must work for the Cuomo campaign if you think his management had nothing to do with the extraordinary NY death rate of 32,000. And he’s taking victory laps. It was horrible management against the most vulnerable population. Yes, FL and TX are seeing spikes in infection though they won’t get close to the mortality rates of NY because they know to manage against the high risk factors, just a smarter approach given what we have learned from this.

Much of the rest of your comments are all partisan shots. What does the point about counties won by Trump or Clinton even mean? What is your point with that and where do you even source such info if you aren’t such a partisan yourself? Trump won near 90% of the counties in the US so the perspective makes zero sense and means nothing.

The standing against socialist Europe is also meaningless. If we are sourcing from WHO, it’s worth noting they show a higher mortality rate in Connecticut than China. Somethings off.

To me, Japan is the most interesting model. Zero shutdowns. No lockdowns. No masks. I’m guessing it may be linked to health factors of the population, hygiene, could be any and all. It’s worth looking at.

Again, Lou Holtz made some excellent points on the subject of playing ball. You can check it out. It’s worth a listen.

I’d be willing to hear evidence of Cuomo's mismanagement of the “most vulnerable” populations if you have a source? Without knowing how he supposedly mismanaged the situation it’s hard to gauge the validity of your unsupported claim, though. As with all things Trump, anyone (Fauci) or entity (CDC) that try to inject science into the response get sid

You have to be kidding on having no knowledge of how Cuomo managed nursing homes.....its widely available if you want to source it.

Do you also realize that Trump won most of the counties as example in NY State. So again, the implications you make are nothing but partisan. What’s the relevance to that and what does that have to do with Trump?

The most obvious “science” was to keep this virus away from the elderly. It was apparent early on. It was apparent in Italy. It was ignored in NY. Florida knew better.

I provided sources for my assertions. You want me to accept Cuomo was somehow negligent, then you provide the sourcing. Maybe I don’t listen to enough Fox News or right wing media, but this is truly the first I’m hearing this claim. I will assert that Cuomo has done a better job than Trump based on approval ratings alone (60% Cuomo vs 39% Trump). On a simpler level, Cuomo displayed leadership and got the situation under control, while Trump denied reality and told the states to fend for themselves.

Florida just set a record for daily deaths, tell me again about the bang up job DeSantis is doing when they had the advantage of time and learning from the states that were hit first.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/flor...k/2263141/

The connection between the rise in cases and deaths in states and counties either run or majority populated by conservatives I thought was obvious. Areas governed by Republicans at the state, county or local level, which have generally ignored recommendations on social distancing, not banning large gatherings, or mandated mask wearing are fairing far worse as the pandemic progresses. Blue states, with the exception of CA, that were hit hard early before we knew it was widespread in the population or how to combat it, are fairing better over time because they have leaned into the science and didn’t make mask wearing and other countermeasures political issues.

Just today Brian Kemp, the republican governor of Georgia signed an executive order preventing any municipality in Georgia from mandating facial coverings. You wanna talk about mismanagement?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20...-mandates/

You are obviously very partisan which is fine - you just don’t like to admit it. Since you obviously study all this, why not just simply post all the deaths in states blue and red and let the numbers tell the story.

Then you can opine why it should all be either Trumps fault, Fox News or your favorite Republican governor while pleading ignorance to the most tragic management in the entire country, CNN heartthrob Andrew Cuomo.

Perhaps these will help.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-new-yor...1591908426

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...atastrophe

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/nyreg...elays.html

https://www.propublica.org/article/two-c...california

https://spectator.us/new-york-mismanaged...de-blasio/

https://nypost.com/2020/06/11/andrew-cuo...anagement/

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavi...ter-2020-4

Anyone and everyone who is letting anything but science (the best we know at the time) guide how we should handle this pandemic is shameful. There’s plenty of blame to go around, from Fox to CNN and Trump to Cuomo.


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(07-18-2020 07:59 AM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  Anyone and everyone who is letting anything but science (the best we know at the time) guide how we should handle this pandemic is shameful. There’s plenty of blame to go around, from Fox to CNN and Trump to Cuomo.


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I agree on blame and on the shameless politicition of this by all sides. I get your statement (the best we know at the time) and am not aiming this at you, since you have qualified it.

I am particularly turned off by the statement, "follow the science", by those who pick and choose what to call science and what to ignore based upon their preconceptions, ie most tend to ignore the position of the American Academy of Pediatrics' giving guidance "strongly advocating that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school."

I'm still waiting on the peer reviewed paper establishing the science. At this point it seems as if we are still learning through trial and error. To date I feel there has been too much error, most of it politically motivated, and too little trial, mostly generated by fear and ideology (ie the false narrative on chloriniquine and hydrochloriniquine and fake studies condemning it (since retracted) once Trump touted it) or failure to wear masks and social distance when appropriate.

We should not rule things out of hand in combating this, based prejudice, politics, and ideology. Had Cuomo not held back initial response in NY and followed CA's lead, we wouldn't be so far into this mess. The position that quarantining folks coming/going to China early on, mismanaging resources, and then pushing sick patients into nursing homes with the most vulernable made NY an incubator which infected the whole country.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-new-yor...1591908426

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...atastrophe

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/nyreg...elays.html

(07-18-2020 08:55 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 07:59 AM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  Anyone and everyone who is letting anything but science (the best we know at the time) guide how we should handle this pandemic is shameful. There’s plenty of blame to go around, from Fox to CNN and Trump to Cuomo.


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I agree on blame and on the shameless politicition of this by all sides. I get your statement (the best we know at the time) and am not aiming this at you, since you have qualified it.

I am particularly turned off by the statement, "follow the science", by those who pick and choose what to call science and what to ignore based upon their preconceptions, ie most tend to ignore the position of the American Academy of Pediatrics' giving guidance "strongly advocating that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school."

I'm still waiting on the peer reviewed paper establishing the science. At this point it seems as if we are still learning through trial and error. To date I feel there has been too much error, most of it politically motivated, and too little trial, mostly generated by fear and ideology (ie the false narrative on chloriniquine and hydrochloriniquine and fake studies condemning it (since retracted) once Trump touted it) or failure to wear masks and social distance when appropriate.

We should not rule things out of hand in combating this, based prejudice, politics, and ideology. Had Cuomo not held back initial response in NY and followed CA's lead, we wouldn't be so far into this mess. The position that quarantining folks coming/going to China early on, mismanaging resources, and then pushing sick patients into nursing homes with the most vulernable made NY an incubator which infected the whole country.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-new-yor...1591908426

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...atastrophe

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/nyreg...elays.html

As Tribetime10 posted in the other thread, the AAP released a qualifying statement because their original statement was being misinterpreted. There is no a contradiction here. The AAP is simply saying kids would be best off going back to school IF conditions allow. Conditions will vary from local to local and should be made on an individual basis. No one thinks kids are better off at home this Fall, unless you were already a dedicated home schooler, so they're really just stating the obvious. It's a brand endorsement of the benefit of school to kids' development and happiness was not offered in contradiction to the experts in the field of infectious disease and they made that clear in their qualifying statement.

As for Cuomo, I'm not here to advocate for him specifically, though I think he did rather well under the circumstances. The last thing I will say is compare his actions and response in the early days of this pandemic with a dense urban population in NYC to Governor Kemp, who as of this week won't even allow cities in GA experiencing rising numbers to mandate masks. Any objective observer can see the level of mismanagement, to the degree it will always exist in any government endeavor, is no where near the same level. One made some mistakes with limited advance warning or knowledge. No response is going to be perfect. The other with the benefit of time (months) and advanced knowledge of the disease won't allow the cities in his state to mandate best practices to contain the disease for purely political reasons. Spare us the false equivalency in these two scenarios. The same applies to Trump, DeSantis and a number of other republican governors who refuse to close bars, mandate masks, close beaches, or take the obvious steps Europe has taken to get out from under this mess. Say what you will about Cuomo's initial response, but yesterday NY posted 17 deaths and Texas and Florida posted 162 and 128 deaths respectively. The numbers don't lie.

Old people retire to Florida and Texas by the tens of thousands for warm weather, low cost of living, and a major tax break. A grand total of 0 people have ever retired to NYC.

Arguing with each other whilst rummaging through cherry-picked stats to support the hate Republicans or hate Democrats group is silly. Let's face it, leadership from both sides took ill-informed and/or party-driven decisions and all of them contributed to a divisive, rudderless plan to keep citizens safe.

Maybe we'll steal China's vaccination formula and finally put COVID-19 in the rear view.

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(07-18-2020 08:55 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  

(07-18-2020 07:59 AM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  Anyone and everyone who is letting anything but science (the best we know at the time) guide how we should handle this pandemic is shameful. There’s plenty of blame to go around, from Fox to CNN and Trump to Cuomo.


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I agree on blame and on the shameless politicition of this by all sides. I get your statement (the best we know at the time) and am not aiming this at you, since you have qualified it.

I am particularly turned off by the statement, "follow the science", by those who pick and choose what to call science and what to ignore based upon their preconceptions, ie most tend to ignore the position of the American Academy of Pediatrics' giving guidance "strongly advocating that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school."

I'm still waiting on the peer reviewed paper establishing the science. At this point it seems as if we are still learning through trial and error. To date I feel there has been too much error, most of it politically motivated, and too little trial, mostly generated by fear and ideology (ie the false narrative on chloriniquine and hydrochloriniquine and fake studies condemning it (since retracted) once Trump touted it) or failure to wear masks and social distance when appropriate.

We should not rule things out of hand in combating this, based prejudice, politics, and ideology. Had Cuomo not held back initial response in NY and followed CA's lead, we wouldn't be so far into this mess. The position that quarantining folks coming/going to China early on, mismanaging resources, and then pushing sick patients into nursing homes with the most vulernable made NY an incubator which infected the whole country.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-new-yor...1591908426

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...atastrophe

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/nyreg...elays.html

Trial and error is the only method available at first, considering the abrupt nature of a novel and highly infectious virus. The reason for the confusion over what works and doesnt work is that luckily, the true scientific method eventually yields results, which often negates much of what we had been trialing (eg HCQ found ineffective).

Ironically, conservatives are trying to hammer Cuomo as one who made many mistakes, but the majority of these articles are quoting progressives who argue his relatively conservative actions are to blame (prior to pandemic- cutting Medicaid and allowing corporations to close "failing" hospitals for instance). Regardless, it does seem to be a smokescreen to cloud their own ineffective response, as they offer no counter as to the better response that could be put forth by their own states. Fighting "the science," that which has been proven by the scientific method, remains squarely in their talking points, regardless of the fact that both conservative and liberal advisors within healthcare are begging for a more coordinated, cohesive and stringent response. Could there have been a better response from Cuomo? Sure, but he clearly got his act together quickly, which gets him a pass from most. Some of these other politicians should be put in prison, as their overt inaction and indifference is directly responsible for the deaths of many.

Side point, this whole nonsense about sending Covid patients to nursing homes is the reason they were a problem is ridiculous. Hospitals decide when to send a patient out and when it is safe to send a patient out. Nursing homes being required to accept them is good policy. You cant have a nursing home say no. That would keep relatively healthy patients occupying hospital beds that are needed for someone who is dying. The problem was NOT the policy, it was the lack of understanding of the contagiousness of the virus (ie how long)...assuming this actually happened as a source for widespread nursing home infections...my money is still on the general public/staff/lack of PPE available as the true source of the infection spread.

Here is Cuomo’s March 25th executive order requiring nursing homes to accept coronavirus-infected patients.

Total disregard for a highly at-risk population and certainly led to numerous deaths in elderly care facilities. At least he closed businesses and put people out of work in a ridiculously expensive place to live. Cuomo and the state of NY better line up amazing defense attorneys.





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(07-20-2020 12:27 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Here is Cuomo’s March 25th executive order requiring nursing homes to accept coronavirus-infected patients.

Total disregard for a highly at-risk population and certainly led to numerous deaths in elderly care facilities. At least he closed businesses and put people out of work in a ridiculously expensive place to live. Cuomo and the state of NY better line up amazing defense attorneys.





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Nursing homes are staffed by nurses, therapists and an overseeing physician. If the nursing home was ill-prepared to handle sanitation and isolation procedures, that is on the nursing home and its corporate ownership. The governor is correct in assuming they should be able to handle this, just as a smaller hospital should or even a family with an at-risk member. Simply throwing your hands up in frustration/acceptance is not what he is demanding. The homes should have been preparing plans for this eventuality regardless and when this mandate came out, should have immediately reacted and enacted a game plan. Quarantine procedures should be followed no matter the location. Patients knowingly have a positive swab for months after infection, even though they arent contagious. Healthcare personnel are told to return to work 3 days after fever is resolved and have "improving symptoms," so I would imagine similar procedures were in place for discharge from a hospital for these types of patients. The nursing home cannot refuse transfer based solely on a positive test. The decision to transfer is based on "determination by the hospital physician or designee that the resident is medically stable for return." What are the alternatives?

Wait, so a nursing home should've been prepared for this pandemic and should've been ready, in March, to accept, isolate, and protect residents knowing infected residents were in their facility?

Our public schools, six months later, with a low risk population, aren't even prepared to open. C'mon.

And, these nursing homes will testify that they weren't prepared and point to the fact that the governor instructed them to accept coronavirus-infected people. Our military, local government, state government, USG, universities, businesses, and citizens were also ill-prepared.

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(07-20-2020 02:22 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  

(07-20-2020 12:27 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Here is Cuomo’s March 25th executive order requiring nursing homes to accept coronavirus-infected patients.

Total disregard for a highly at-risk population and certainly led to numerous deaths in elderly care facilities. At least he closed businesses and put people out of work in a ridiculously expensive place to live. Cuomo and the state of NY better line up amazing defense attorneys.





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Nursing homes are staffed by nurses, therapists and an overseeing physician. If the nursing home was ill-prepared to handle sanitation and isolation procedures, that is on the nursing home and its corporate ownership. The governor is correct in assuming they should be able to handle this, just as a smaller hospital should or even a family with an at-risk member. Simply throwing your hands up in frustration/acceptance is not what he is demanding. The homes should have been preparing plans for this eventuality regardless and when this mandate came out, should have immediately reacted and enacted a game plan. Quarantine procedures should be followed no matter the location. Patients knowingly have a positive swab for months after infection, even though they arent contagious. Healthcare personnel are told to return to work 3 days after fever is resolved and have "improving symptoms," so I would imagine similar procedures were in place for discharge from a hospital for these types of patients. The nursing home cannot refuse transfer based solely on a positive test. The decision to transfer is based on "determination by the hospital physician or designee that the resident is medically stable for return." What are the alternatives?

You're kidding, right? I mean for real you've got to be kidding. Assumptions and shoulda-coulda-woulda. And when was this order reversed and why?

I just read an interesting article from an NYU professor on which colleges will thrive, survive, struggle or perish in the next few years. Happily, W&M (featured in the caption) will survive. Other CAA and area schools may not be so fortunate: Elon- struggle; Hofstra- perish; CofC- not listed; Northeastern- survive; UNCW- survive; JMU- not listed; Drexel- survive; Towson- survive; ODU- perish; VCU- struggle; Richmond- thrive; UVa- thrive.

https://www.profgalloway.com/uss-university

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sDPnl4SIg#

Guys, its a national disaster and disaster preparedness requires everyone to prepare. Trust me, if you were in healthcare in February and march, you were preparing. The government may have been late to the party, but healthcare facilities were working to do the best that they could. You all obviously have no idea how these things work. Nursing homes put up walls all the time for transfer because they dont want to deal with difficult patients/scenarios. When the state or nation declares a state of emergency, these usual barriers are out the window. This proclamation was to guarantee that nursing homes dont pull their usual stunts, given that hospital beds would be needed for patients who were truly sick. It was likely advised by those up the state healthcare hierarchy. This is not a school or a regular business, which close because they are not necessary in a pandemic. Healthcare facilities across the board should have prepared to the best of their ability. I am sure the military was preparing to the best of their ability as well. Our governments inability to help them follow through with plans to do the job they intend (PPE, staffing etc) is the essence of the problem...it certainly was not the mandate.

Nursing homes are full of patients at risk just like the average hospital ward. If this was rescinded, it was because additional information came about that helped clarify a better plan of action. More likely though, things became more clear as far as the severity of the peak while simultaneously having testing became more readily available, so, for optics, it was easier to allow that as a barrier.

(07-20-2020 02:53 PM)Tribe4SF Wrote:  

(07-20-2020 02:22 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  

(07-20-2020 12:27 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Here is Cuomo’s March 25th executive order requiring nursing homes to accept coronavirus-infected patients.

Total disregard for a highly at-risk population and certainly led to numerous deaths in elderly care facilities. At least he closed businesses and put people out of work in a ridiculously expensive place to live. Cuomo and the state of NY better line up amazing defense attorneys.





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Nursing homes are staffed by nurses, therapists and an overseeing physician. If the nursing home was ill-prepared to handle sanitation and isolation procedures, that is on the nursing home and its corporate ownership. The governor is correct in assuming they should be able to handle this, just as a smaller hospital should or even a family with an at-risk member. Simply throwing your hands up in frustration/acceptance is not what he is demanding. The homes should have been preparing plans for this eventuality regardless and when this mandate came out, should have immediately reacted and enacted a game plan. Quarantine procedures should be followed no matter the location. Patients knowingly have a positive swab for months after infection, even though they arent contagious. Healthcare personnel are told to return to work 3 days after fever is resolved and have "improving symptoms," so I would imagine similar procedures were in place for discharge from a hospital for these types of patients. The nursing home cannot refuse transfer based solely on a positive test. The decision to transfer is based on "determination by the hospital physician or designee that the resident is medically stable for return." What are the alternatives?

You're kidding, right? I mean for real you've got to be kidding. Assumptions and shoulda-coulda-woulda. And when was this order reversed and why?

I'll answer that. May 10th because he knew his stupid EO caused lives.


"New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo issued a series of new rules for nursing homes in hopes of curbing the spread of the coronavirus and protecting the health and safety of the state’s most vulnerable population.
Since the start of the pandemic, more than 5,300 New Yorkers living in nursing homes have died from the virus, that's according to a tally from the Associated Press.
Hospitals cannot release patients to nursing homes in New York unless the patient tests negative for the virus, Cuomo said Sunday. The governor's announcement is a reversal of sorts from a March order by the state's health department requiring nursing home to accept recovering patients.
Previously, the health department's order stated "[nursing homes] are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for COVID-19 prior to admission or readmission."
"We're just not going to send a person who is positive to a nursing home after hospital visit. Period. If there's any issue, the resident must be referred to the department of health which will find alternative care," Cuomo said Sunday."


I mean, if he admitted his EO was stupid, why can't messageboard posters?



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"If there's any issue, the resident must be referred to the department of health which will find alternative care"

Good luck with that plan when your hospital is under surge and there is no yet to exist alternative care plan. Again, this was prior to a reliable plan being in place for all contingencies. The national guard had not yet been dispatched. The creation of field hospitals would have been perfect for this purpose, but that wasnt available for about another month. There is precedent for sending patients with bad bugs to nursing homes. Being deemed a "contact" patient with MRSA for instance does not preclude you from going to a nursing home. Many nursing home patients have pre-existing conditions that would cause significant morbidity should they develop an infection with antibiotic-resistant agents. The nursing home is supposed to be ready for these patients and prepare isolation restrictions. Its not crazy when you live in this world.

Bottom line. He learned it wasnt a great move, but there was no good alternative at the time.

(07-18-2020 02:40 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Old people retire to Florida and Texas by the tens of thousands for warm weather, low cost of living, and a major tax break. A grand total of 0 people have ever retired to NYC.

Arguing with each other whilst rummaging through cherry-picked stats to support the hate Republicans or hate Democrats group is silly. Let's face it, leadership from both sides took ill-informed and/or party-driven decisions and all of them contributed to a divisive, rudderless plan to keep citizens safe.

Maybe we'll steal China's vaccination formula and finally put COVID-19 in the rear view.

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I am not cherry-picking stats as you describe. It is simple fact that in terms of COVID deaths the US is keeping company now with Brazil, Iran, Mexico, India, Russia and Columbia, while nearly all of Europe and the rest of the 1st world countries have got a handle on the situation. It is simple fact that the NE has a better handle on this than Republican run states in the South and West, with the notable exception of CA, which I pointed out above. People are free to draw different conclusions from the numbers, but the numbers are the numbers and I did not cherry pick them. Most of my professional career was spent analyzing data and identifying trends.

I’m sorry, and respectfully, this is not one of those both sides are bad, so throw your hands up in air in exasperation type of situations. There is only one President and he alone could have coordinated a strong national response. He failed and pawned it out onto the states to fend for themselves. Call it partisan if you want, but I’m no ideologue. I’m very middle of the road on a host of issues from immigration to gun control, and pro-life. There are two rationale arguments to almost every issue, but the direction of the Republican Party is entirely under the direction and control of Trump and his far right base and to me, as long is that’s the case, the Republican Party is not a viable governing party. I’m not going to pretend the Trump is a competent chief executive.

Just today, Trump finally made an unequivocal endorsement for wearing masks to combat the virus, after months of experts pleading for him to do it. Compare that level of partisan-driven mismanagement to Cuomo making some early missteps when he had nothing but degrees of bad to choose from. I’m not going to pretend those situations are equivalent. It doesn’t make one neutral or above the fray to ignore objective differences between these two leaders and the context of the mistakes made.

Firstly, I hope you and your family are holding up. It must be terrible having to deal with no olfactory senses. Be well.


Haven't checked today, but last look showed NY, NJ, MA, CT, Ill, and MI topping the death chart. 5 of the worst 7 in total cases (not deaths) are liberal states.

In the past 7 days, there are far more cases in warm weather states and my hypothesis is because that's where people vacation.

BTW, if anyone takes health and safety guidance from the President, any President, they have problems. I suggest talking it over with a MD and doing your own research. Even the WHO & CDC have been all over the place. Wear a mask, sanitize your hands, avoid groups if you can, get outside, exercise, eat well, take supplements to include smashing vit D, and charge your mental health.

Also, suicides, unemployment, family abuse, alcohol & drug abuse, depression, and violent crimes have skyrocketed. Go figure...I mean, who would've expected such a thing?

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Mask mandates and social distancing rules would apply to visitors if they were enacted. Many states instituted mandatory 14 days quarantines if travelling from a "high-infection rate" state Governor’s Actions Regarding Travel, including Florida.

FL Executive Order Number 20-82
Governor DeSantis directed all individuals entering the state of Florida from the New York Tri-State Area (Connecticut, New Jersey, and New York) to isolate or quarantine for a period of 14 days from the time of entry into Florida or the duration of the individual’s presence in Florida, whichever is shorter. This includes persons entering Florida by roadways.
(Effective on June 5th).

Death rates creeping up in FL/TX/AZ. Avg person lives 20-30 days on a ventilator in the ICU w Covid. ICUs are at or above capacity at a large percentage of FL hospitals. Check back here in August for the most sickening I told you so ever.

So liberals from NY are dying in right wing FL.

Keep the blue out of the red is the new anthem.

Seriously now, ventilators are a proven death sentence. The body shuts down when machines take over. Has research shown that COVID-19 is a pulmonary disease vice respiratory? I think i read that.

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