Quote:In 2019, college football attendance hit a 24-year low according to the NCAA's official numbers. The FBS average of 41,477 per game is the game's lowest since 1996. That's also the fourth-lowest average nationally since 1982. (The total includes home, neutral site and bowl games.)

Quote:"I don't want to say this the wrong way," BYU AD Tom Holmoe said. "You can't just put on a game. They come [to the stadium] for entertainment. They come for the amenities. Most people don't come for the game right now."

That from an AD whose program had the fifth-biggest attendance increase in the country (7,071 more fans per game).

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...ince-1996/

Games are too LONG. I could be wrong-- but thought I saw where average NFL game was 30-40 minutes shorter than NCAA D1. Again could be mistaken.

Paying players and new transfer rules won't help much either. We always have the same 10 or so teams with an actual shot at an NC and it gets boring for the average fan.

The overall FBS per-game attendance average is pulled down by lots of newbie football-schools who either didn’t have teams 30+ years ago, or else were playing at a lower classification.

IMO, a couple of things have happened since 1996 that has hurt the value and prestige of college football including its game attendance.

For one, the plethora of "newbie" schools that moved up from FCS has exploded since 1996. That alone brings the home attendance statistical averages down.

In CUSA alone, UTSA, Charlotte, UAB, ODU, MTSU, WKU, FIU, Marshall, UNT and FAU all fit into this "newbie" category. They've all started playing FBS (or Div 1) football since 1996. And it's not that the individual schools are bad, it's just that so many made the shift at about the same time.

There's little doubt that these newbie schools --along with those in other conferences-- have watered down the statistical attendance averages for college football overall. Their own home football attendances are generally low, and they've succeeded at making some P5 schedules less attractive as well. Remember, many of the P5's like to pad their schedule with OOC games against newbies. Which game is a P5 fan most likely to skip on his/her favorite school's home schedule?

In short, the "newbie" schools made college football a less exclusive game. Instead of 15 bowl games, now we have 40. Instead of 8 or 10 college football games on TV each Saturday, we now have 60 on Thursday, Friday & Saturday each week. It's just a fact.

Again, it's not that the newbie schools are bad --heck, I put UCF & Boise State in this category as well-- but rather, it's just that so many (maybe 30?) newbie schools chose to go FBS at about the same time. THAT is a recent culture change --a cultural phenomenon-- to college football.

I find it difficult to believe these college football AD's attending this conference haven't considered the impact of newbie schools on college football, including the P5's attendance. (They probably did discuss it behind closed doors.) But the P5's are guilty as well. They play OOC games against G5 schools, including newbie schools.

[quote='HogDawg' pid='16727142' dateline='1583887931']
IMO, a couple of things have happened since 1996 that has hurt the value and prestige of college football including its game attendance.

For one, the plethora of "newbie" schools that moved up from FCS has exploded since 1996. That alone brings the home attendance statistical averages down.

In CUSA alone, UTSA, Charlotte, UAB, ODU, MTSU, WKU, FIU, Marshall, UNT and FAU all fit into this "newbie" category. They've all started playing FBS (or Div 1) football since 1996. And it's not that the individual schools are bad, it's just that so many made the shift at about the same time.

There's little doubt that these newbie schools --along with those in other conferences-- have watered down the statistical attendance averages for college football overall. Their own home football attendances are generally low, and they've succeeded at making some P5 schedules less attractive as well. Remember, many of the P5's like to pad their schedule with OOC games against newbies. Which game is a P5 fan most likely to skip on his/her favorite school's home schedule?

In short, the "newbie" schools made college football a less exclusive game. Instead of 15 bowl games, now we have 40. Instead of 8 or 10 college football games on TV each Saturday, we now have 60 on Thursday, Friday & Saturday each week. It's just a fact.

Again, it's not that the newbie schools are bad --heck, I put UCF & Boise State in this category as well-- but rather, it's just that so many (maybe 30?) newbie schools chose to go FBS at about the same time. THAT is a recent culture change --a cultural phenomenon-- to college football.

I find it difficult to believe these college football AD's attending this conference haven't considered the impact of newbie schools on college football, including the P5's attendance. (They probably did discuss it behind closed doors.) But the P5's are guilty as well. They play OOC games against G5 schools, including newbie schools.
[/quot

Marshall and MT newbies? La tech went D1 a couple years before these schools and La Tech is not a newbie?

Cheap big screen HD TVs, literally every football game being televised, and millennials not caring about anything but their smartphones are the reasons football attendance is declining. Not the "newbies".

(03-10-2020 07:52 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  For one, the plethora of "newbie" schools that moved up from FCS has exploded since 1996. In CUSA alone, UTSA, Charlotte, UAB, ODU, MTSU, WKU, FIU, Marshall, UNT and FAU all fit into this "newbie" category.

I'll challenge Marshall in the newbie category a bit. Marshall has now been solidly FBS for a quarter-century (3 Heisman candidates) and been ranked for nearly 20% of those season (though our unranked years have been largely concentrated in the Holliday era). We were in the MAC, an established recognized conference, before the I-AA relegation of 1977/1982.

Marshall is somewhat unique. I think we're too big and old to be a newbie, but too small market and historically quaint to be a "historic blue blood". We're firmly a tweener with a current head coach that doesn't fit it's model.

"Newbie" football program fans weren't going to other schools' football games before they started football or moved up. Outside of the big money conferences' state flagships there are very few "Walmart fans" in college football. At best these schools took eyeballs off other programs on TV, but not in stadiums. Newbie schools brought in fans who had connections to their schools and as such brought in NEW fans, which means the overall drop in attendance is slightly worse than it would have been without these Newbie programs starting up.

The real issues are:

1) A change in young peoples' entertainment priorities.
2) A change in entertainment access.

(03-10-2020 06:43 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  The overall FBS per-game attendance average is pulled down by lots of newbie football-schools who either didn’t have teams 30+ years ago, or else were playing at a lower classification.

(03-10-2020 07:52 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  IMO, a couple of things have happened since 1996 that has hurt the value and prestige of college football including its game attendance.

For one, the plethora of "newbie" schools that moved up from FCS has exploded since 1996. That alone brings the home attendance statistical averages down.

In CUSA alone, UTSA, Charlotte, UAB, ODU, MTSU, WKU, FIU, Marshall, UNT and FAU all fit into this "newbie" category. They've all started playing FBS (or Div 1) football since 1996. And it's not that the individual schools are bad, it's just that so many made the shift at about the same time.

There's little doubt that these newbie schools --along with those in other conferences-- have watered down the statistical attendance averages for college football overall. Their own home football attendances are generally low, and they've succeeded at making some P5 schedules less attractive as well. Remember, many of the P5's like to pad their schedule with OOC games against newbies. Which game is a P5 fan most likely to skip on his/her favorite school's home schedule?

In short, the "newbie" schools made college football a less exclusive game. Instead of 15 bowl games, now we have 40. Instead of 8 or 10 college football games on TV each Saturday, we now have 60 on Thursday, Friday & Saturday each week. It's just a fact.

Again, it's not that the newbie schools are bad --heck, I put UCF & Boise State in this category as well-- but rather, it's just that so many (maybe 30?) newbie schools chose to go FBS at about the same time. THAT is a recent culture change --a cultural phenomenon-- to college football.

I find it difficult to believe these college football AD's attending this conference haven't considered the impact of newbie schools on college football, including the P5's attendance. (They probably did discuss it behind closed doors.) But the P5's are guilty as well. They play OOC games against G5 schools, including newbie schools.

Did you guys read the article? It has the attendance trend broken down by conference:

SEC -1.7%
Big 10 -0.5%
ACC -1.2%
P12 -0.8%
MWC -2.6%

In fact, Sun Belt (who has newbies right?) we up 5.5%. CUSA with all the newbies you mentioned, had no change.

It has nothing to do with startups.

clt blames the constant threat of hurricanes.

I've been saying for years that HDTV is the biggest issue with declining attendance.

And on a related note that I've also been saying for a long time, quality of fan experience is much more important than quantity of fans a stadium/arena can hold in today's world.

(03-10-2020 07:52 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  IMO, a couple of things have happened since 1996 that has hurt the value and prestige of college football including its game attendance.

For one, the plethora of "newbie" schools that moved up from FCS has exploded since 1996. That alone brings the home attendance statistical averages down.

In CUSA alone, UTSA, Charlotte, UAB, ODU, MTSU, WKU, FIU, Marshall, UNT and FAU all fit into this "newbie" category. They've all started playing FBS (or Div 1) football since 1996. And it's not that the individual schools are bad, it's just that so many made the shift at about the same time.

There's little doubt that these newbie schools --along with those in other conferences-- have watered down the statistical attendance averages for college football overall. Their own home football attendances are generally low, and they've succeeded at making some P5 schedules less attractive as well. Remember, many of the P5's like to pad their schedule with OOC games against newbies. Which game is a P5 fan most likely to skip on his/her favorite school's home schedule?

In short, the "newbie" schools made college football a less exclusive game. Instead of 15 bowl games, now we have 40. Instead of 8 or 10 college football games on TV each Saturday, we now have 60 on Thursday, Friday & Saturday each week. It's just a fact.

Again, it's not that the newbie schools are bad --heck, I put UCF & Boise State in this category as well-- but rather, it's just that so many (maybe 30?) newbie schools chose to go FBS at about the same time. THAT is a recent culture change --a cultural phenomenon-- to college football.

I find it difficult to believe these college football AD's attending this conference haven't considered the impact of newbie schools on college football, including the P5's attendance. (They probably did discuss it behind closed doors.) But the P5's are guilty as well. They play OOC games against G5 schools, including newbie schools.

If you UCF and Boise State are "newbies" so is Marshall.

(03-11-2020 06:46 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  "Newbie" football program fans weren't going to other schools' football games before they started football or moved up. Outside of the big money conferences' state flagships there are very few "Walmart fans" in college football. At best these schools took eyeballs off other programs on TV, but not in stadiums. Newbie schools brought in fans who had connections to their schools and as such brought in NEW fans, which means the overall drop in attendance is slightly worse than it would have been without these Newbie programs starting up.

The real issues are:

1) A change in young peoples' entertainment priorities.
2) A change in entertainment access.

You nailed it. Today’s kids are more enamored with their phones than a football game. Thus schools need to make the game an event that revolves around the game itself. That takes extra time for planning and expense for side events or activities that are planned to draw fans in.

Weather plays a huge role as well. If it’s raining or too cold, fans stay home.

(03-10-2020 05:19 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Games are too LONG. I could be wrong-- but thought I saw where average NFL game was 30-40 minutes shorter than NCAA D1. Again could be mistaken.

Maybe I'm in the minority here but I've never been at a football game, cheering on my team, and randomly thought "geez...you know what, this game is taking too long!"

On student attendance, more kids are not buying into tradition, culture, and allegiance to their school. They are too cool for school.

The availability of watching your team play has made an impact. I am guilty, I've probably watched more games on TV or internet than attending it in person. It saves me a total of 6 hr of driving and I avoid sitting in the stands on a hot Louisiana late summer heat.

I never attended more games than I did last year, 9 regular season and a bowl game. I'm with TTT there's some things I would change but the length of the games isn't one. There's no place I'd rather be.

(03-10-2020 08:51 PM)MT FAN Wrote:  [quote='HogDawg' pid='16727142' dateline='1583887931']
IMO, a couple of things have happened since 1996 that has hurt the value and prestige of college football including its game attendance.

For one, the plethora of "newbie" schools that moved up from FCS has exploded since 1996. That alone brings the home attendance statistical averages down.

In CUSA alone, UTSA, Charlotte, UAB, ODU, MTSU, WKU, FIU, Marshall, UNT and FAU all fit into this "newbie" category. They've all started playing FBS (or Div 1) football since 1996. And it's not that the individual schools are bad, it's just that so many made the shift at about the same time.

There's little doubt that these newbie schools --along with those in other conferences-- have watered down the statistical attendance averages for college football overall. Their own home football attendances are generally low, and they've succeeded at making some P5 schedules less attractive as well. Remember, many of the P5's like to pad their schedule with OOC games against newbies. Which game is a P5 fan most likely to skip on his/her favorite school's home schedule?

In short, the "newbie" schools made college football a less exclusive game. Instead of 15 bowl games, now we have 40. Instead of 8 or 10 college football games on TV each Saturday, we now have 60 on Thursday, Friday & Saturday each week. It's just a fact.

Again, it's not that the newbie schools are bad --heck, I put UCF & Boise State in this category as well-- but rather, it's just that so many (maybe 30?) newbie schools chose to go FBS at about the same time. THAT is a recent culture change --a cultural phenomenon-- to college football.

I find it difficult to believe these college football AD's attending this conference haven't considered the impact of newbie schools on college football, including the P5's attendance. (They probably did discuss it behind closed doors.) But the P5's are guilty as well. They play OOC games against G5 schools, including newbie schools.
[/quot

Marshall and MT newbies? La tech went D1 a couple years before these schools and La Tech is not a newbie?

Cheap big screen HD TVs, literally every football game being televised, and millennials not caring about anything but their smartphones are the reasons football attendance is declining. Not the "newbies".

Yes, both Marshall and Middle were newbies that joined FBS (or Div 1A) AFTER the stated 1996 year. Don't shoot the messenger. I didn't pick the 1996 year, the article did. FYI, LA Tech's first year in FBS (Div 1A) was in 1989. Marshall's 1st year was 1997. Middle's was the year 2000. That's more than "a couple of years". That's 11 years before Middle.

(03-10-2020 05:19 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Games are too LONG. I could be wrong-- but thought I saw where average NFL game was 30-40 minutes shorter than NCAA D1. Again could be mistaken.

Take away 1 or 2 of these ignorant "The previous play is under review for targeting" calls and we could make up that 30-40 minutes.

People just don’t care about college sports like they used to.

I went to the acc tourney tonight. 3/4 empty for the first game, half empty for the second. I got in for 12.00 and overpaid. 4800 searts on just stubhub at game time.

Part of it is that rivalries were separated. Part of it is that people think it’s rigged. Part of it is that a generation would rather get likes than watch football. Part of it is the technology. I’d had tickets to five non Charlotte games offered to me and didn’t attend because I could watch it at home.

I’m not sure what the answer is, but I think this gets worse before it gets better.

Are we talking about the fake numbers again or attendance? If you look up the definition of attendance you wont find anything about making up numbers. Lets be honest Tech's attendance according to Webster is a good 40% lower. So are most other G5 schools...newbie or not.