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mrbig Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-13-2020 07:49 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Well, I guess this will be a good practice run for when a real danger happens. Shutting all this down, a university of mostly young students and yes their somewhat older professors, who could individually quarantine if necessary, for what amounts to mainly a mild case of cold or flu if one actually developed symptoms if you actually get the coronabug which the data so far worldwide shows primarily affects those of the age of octogenarians.

Data also seems to show over half of the cases of infection worldwide already recovered. The only possibility to make this make some sense is that we are being lied to about the data and this is far worse with tons more dead than we are being told. Most of those affected appear well able to survive a cold no problem if they came down with it. Lawyers, liability and a bunch of agendas conspire in a perfect storm. Our enemies watch and remember how to take us down without firing a shot. Truly unconventional warfare.

The fact that you think you have better judgment on this than all the people who are making these tough decisions truly astounds me. You certainly do not lack for self-confidence.
03-14-2020 01:51 AM
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greyowl72 Online
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Post: #62
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-14-2020 01:51 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(03-13-2020 07:49 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Well, I guess this will be a good practice run for when a real danger happens. Shutting all this down, a university of mostly young students and yes their somewhat older professors, who could individually quarantine if necessary, for what amounts to mainly a mild case of cold or flu if one actually developed symptoms if you actually get the coronabug which the data so far worldwide shows primarily affects those of the age of octogenarians.

Data also seems to show over half of the cases of infection worldwide already recovered. The only possibility to make this make some sense is that we are being lied to about the data and this is far worse with tons more dead than we are being told. Most of those affected appear well able to survive a cold no problem if they came down with it. Lawyers, liability and a bunch of agendas conspire in a perfect storm. Our enemies watch and remember how to take us down without firing a shot. Truly unconventional warfare.

The fact that you think you have better judgment on this than all the people who are making these tough decisions truly astounds me. You certainly do not lack for self-confidence.

80% of the people that get Covid-19 have a mild case of “flu-like” symptoms. One in 5 have severe symptoms and a large portion of them require hospitalization. These hospitalized patients are the ones that really make this virus a serious threat to the country. They don’t just get IV’s and a few drugs and watch TV for 3 days and then get discharged. They require huge amounts of resources. Respiratory Therapy. Expensive drugs. Ventilators. ICU beds. And the constant attention of thousands of health care workers, who are, in turn, exposed to the virus.... And who might become one victims themselves. All of this in the face of rapidly developing supply chain problems that will result in not a shortage of toilet paper, but a critical shortage of drugs, surgical supplies, personal protective devices, ... only everything that a hospital requires to treat every critically ill patient.
If the virus was an army waging a war, the way it will win is not by killing us. The mortality rate is less important than wreaking havoc on the health care system by bleeding away huge amounts of critical resources.
We need to get our collective heads out of collective asses and listen to the experts that are screaming at us to pay attention!

Sorry for the mini-diatribe. I just met with our OR/hospital committees here. This thing is real.
03-14-2020 09:21 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #63
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-14-2020 01:51 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(03-13-2020 07:49 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Well, I guess this will be a good practice run for when a real danger happens. Shutting all this down, a university of mostly young students and yes their somewhat older professors, who could individually quarantine if necessary, for what amounts to mainly a mild case of cold or flu if one actually developed symptoms if you actually get the coronabug which the data so far worldwide shows primarily affects those of the age of octogenarians.
Data also seems to show over half of the cases of infection worldwide already recovered. The only possibility to make this make some sense is that we are being lied to about the data and this is far worse with tons more dead than we are being told. Most of those affected appear well able to survive a cold no problem if they came down with it. Lawyers, liability and a bunch of agendas conspire in a perfect storm. Our enemies watch and remember how to take us down without firing a shot. Truly unconventional warfare.
The fact that you think you have better judgment on this than all the people who are making these tough decisions truly astounds me. You certainly do not lack for self-confidence.

Given the decisions that have been made by those people, I'm not sure he doesn't have better judgment.
03-14-2020 09:24 AM
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Post: #64
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-14-2020 09:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 01:51 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(03-13-2020 07:49 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Well, I guess this will be a good practice run for when a real danger happens. Shutting all this down, a university of mostly young students and yes their somewhat older professors, who could individually quarantine if necessary, for what amounts to mainly a mild case of cold or flu if one actually developed symptoms if you actually get the coronabug which the data so far worldwide shows primarily affects those of the age of octogenarians.
Data also seems to show over half of the cases of infection worldwide already recovered. The only possibility to make this make some sense is that we are being lied to about the data and this is far worse with tons more dead than we are being told. Most of those affected appear well able to survive a cold no problem if they came down with it. Lawyers, liability and a bunch of agendas conspire in a perfect storm. Our enemies watch and remember how to take us down without firing a shot. Truly unconventional warfare.
The fact that you think you have better judgment on this than all the people who are making these tough decisions truly astounds me. You certainly do not lack for self-confidence.

Given the decisions that have been made by those people, I'm not sure he doesn't have better judgment.

I think blind compliance with those in positions of authority is the way that many questionable programs in history have developed. One (good?) thing about Americans - we keep our ability to be skeptical even if the person telling us to go jump in a lake has a Ph.D.
03-14-2020 10:13 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #65
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-14-2020 10:13 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 09:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 01:51 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(03-13-2020 07:49 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Well, I guess this will be a good practice run for when a real danger happens. Shutting all this down, a university of mostly young students and yes their somewhat older professors, who could individually quarantine if necessary, for what amounts to mainly a mild case of cold or flu if one actually developed symptoms if you actually get the coronabug which the data so far worldwide shows primarily affects those of the age of octogenarians.
Data also seems to show over half of the cases of infection worldwide already recovered. The only possibility to make this make some sense is that we are being lied to about the data and this is far worse with tons more dead than we are being told. Most of those affected appear well able to survive a cold no problem if they came down with it. Lawyers, liability and a bunch of agendas conspire in a perfect storm. Our enemies watch and remember how to take us down without firing a shot. Truly unconventional warfare.
The fact that you think you have better judgment on this than all the people who are making these tough decisions truly astounds me. You certainly do not lack for self-confidence.
Given the decisions that have been made by those people, I'm not sure he doesn't have better judgment.
I think blind compliance with those in positions of authority is the way that many questionable programs in history have developed. One (good?) thing about Americans - we keep our ability to be skeptical even if the person telling us to go jump in a lake has a Ph.D.

When Richard Nixon gave us the 55 mph speed limit, Americans learned how to use CB radios. That tells me we are going to be okay, if we still have that spirit.
03-14-2020 11:09 AM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-14-2020 09:21 AM)greyowl72 Wrote:  Sorry for the mini-diatribe. I just met with our OR/hospital committees here. This thing is real.

We need more diatribes of sensibility.04-bow01-ncaabbs
03-14-2020 11:56 AM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-14-2020 09:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Given the decisions that have been made by those people, I'm not sure he doesn't have better judgment.

I broke the seal of moving this from The Quad to the sports forum. Sorry about that, but I will stop. Suffice to say that putting GoodOwl in charge of pandemic response would be a very unconventional decision.
03-14-2020 11:57 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #68
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-14-2020 11:57 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 09:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Given the decisions that have been made by those people, I'm not sure he doesn't have better judgment.
I broke the seal of moving this from The Quad to the sports forum. Sorry about that, but I will stop. Suffice to say that putting GoodOwl in charge of pandemic response would be a very unconventional decision.

I am not suggesting that. Nor am I suggesting that CDC does no good. So please none of you go putting any of those words in my mouth.

What I am suggesting is that the reason why we are so far behind in testing is because of mind-boggly absurd decisions by CDC not to use the WHO test that every other country is using, nor to allow states or local or private entities (like Dr. Chu in Washington, who detected the problem in Seattle before anyone else, and received a cease and desist order from CDC for her trouble) to develop tests or engage in testing.

I have read on the Spin Room board that the WHO test has been found to generate false positives. That might explain the high numbers of cases detected. It also might indicate that we are not nearly so far "behind" as some would suggest, and that our numbers may end up being way less than the worst projections. That is at least an argument in favor of the CDC decision, but it still seems to me that having something in place is better than nothing, and the false positives can probably be identified fairly quickly by other means and disposed of.
03-14-2020 12:13 PM
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Post: #69
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
CDC should be disbanded or drastically changed and Trump is the only person who can change it since he is not a career politician. A big waste of tax payers money.
03-14-2020 01:58 PM
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RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-14-2020 01:58 PM)OldOwl Wrote:  CDC should be disbanded or drastically changed and Trump is the only person who can change it since he is not a career politician. A big waste of tax payers money.

You need to understand a bit about the history of CDC. It was originally started to deal with malaria, and located in Atlanta because the south was the biggest problem area. As we got malaria under control, rather than going out of business, like good bureaucrats they looked around and found other diseases to go after. Over about 100 years, it just grew and grew and grew. It's probably very good at analyzing and tracking and keeping statistics and dispensing information, and those are all useful functions. But it isn't set up to be a crisis response agency, and forcing it into that role is going to result in mistakes.

We need a dedicated crisis response agency to deal with the inevitable things that are going to happen in a 21st century society. We may need different teams for different types of crises, or maybe skill set of crisis management is itself very adaptable, and we could have a management team with different functional units to handle different types of crises. The trick is that we can't pay them 24/7/365, but we need them trained and ready when the crisis comes. For this reason, I would identify the National Guard as the force to move from a reserve Army reserve primary function to disaster recovery/emergency response to a wide range of situations. Having a trained cadre of people able to set up numerous remote medical units and do screening for CV-19 would be a wonderful addition (although we would have to be careful, because a number of those people would actually come from the existing medical establishment).
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2020 04:06 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
03-14-2020 04:00 PM
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Post: #71
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-14-2020 04:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  You need to understand a bit about the history of CDC. It was originally started to deal with malaria, and located in Atlanta because the south was the biggest problem area. As we got malaria under control, rather than going out of business, like good bureaucrats they looked around and found other diseases to go after. Over about 100 years, it just grew and grew and grew. It's probably very good at analyzing and tracking and keeping statistics and dispensing information, and those are all useful functions. But it isn't set up to be a crisis response agency, and forcing it into that role is going to result in mistakes.

We need a dedicated crisis response agency to deal with the inevitable things that are going to happen in a 21st century society. We may need different teams for different types of crises, or maybe skill set of crisis management is itself very adaptable, and we could have a management team with different functional units to handle different types of crises. The trick is that we can't pay them 24/7/365, but we need them trained and ready when the crisis comes. For this reason, I would identify the National Guard as the force to move from a reserve Army reserve primary function to disaster recovery/emergency response to a wide range of situations. Having a trained cadre of people able to set up numerous remote medical units and do screening for CV-19 would be a wonderful addition (although we would have to be careful, because a number of those people would actually come from the existing medical establishment).

FYI, the White House had such a capability, but Trump eliminated it in 2018, perhaps because, like you, he believed that paying them 24/7/365 was a waste of money.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/n...story.html

But without leaving anything in its place -- not even a "trained cadre" -- it's sadly no surprise that the U.S. response was late.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2020 06:04 PM by Almadenmike.)
03-14-2020 06:03 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #72
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-14-2020 06:03 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 04:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  You need to understand a bit about the history of CDC. It was originally started to deal with malaria, and located in Atlanta because the south was the biggest problem area. As we got malaria under control, rather than going out of business, like good bureaucrats they looked around and found other diseases to go after. Over about 100 years, it just grew and grew and grew. It's probably very good at analyzing and tracking and keeping statistics and dispensing information, and those are all useful functions. But it isn't set up to be a crisis response agency, and forcing it into that role is going to result in mistakes.
We need a dedicated crisis response agency to deal with the inevitable things that are going to happen in a 21st century society. We may need different teams for different types of crises, or maybe skill set of crisis management is itself very adaptable, and we could have a management team with different functional units to handle different types of crises. The trick is that we can't pay them 24/7/365, but we need them trained and ready when the crisis comes. For this reason, I would identify the National Guard as the force to move from a reserve Army reserve primary function to disaster recovery/emergency response to a wide range of situations. Having a trained cadre of people able to set up numerous remote medical units and do screening for CV-19 would be a wonderful addition (although we would have to be careful, because a number of those people would actually come from the existing medical establishment).
FYI, the White House had such a capability, but Trump eliminated it in 2018, perhaps because, like you, he believed that paying them 24/7/365 was a waste of money.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/n...story.html
But without leaving anything in its place -- not even a "trained cadre" -- it's sadly no surprise that the U.S. response was late.

Not exactly. That was an office of planners and managers, not an office of doers. I'm talking about having identified personnel that are, for example, going out to the field to man the drive-thru testing stations. And those people need to be trained and equipped ahead of time. It's too expensive to keep them on the payroll 24/7/365. That's why I'm thinking National Guard. You could enlarge the Army and Air Force Reserves to accomplish all that the Guard supplies from a military perspective, and let the Guard focus on civil defense and emergency/disaster response.

If you had trained medical teams that could have deployed a month or two ago and done field testing on an everyday basis, away from hospitals and doctors' offices and emergency rooms, we could have gotten a handle on this a lot faster. Of course, that would have required having tests available, which would have meant going with the WHO test instead of the CDC test, at least initially. But we always want to assume that nothing will go wrong, and so we don't want to spend the money.

And all we really needed to do to have a timely response would have been to use the WHO test that everybody else is using, and allow state and local governments and private labs to conduct and evaluate tests. Trump is sort of doing that now, which is good. But at the outset, CDC wanted to control everything, and IMO they screwed it up.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2020 06:15 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
03-14-2020 06:13 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-14-2020 06:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Not exactly. That was an office of planners and managers, not an office of doers. I'm talking about having identified personnel that are, for example, going out to the field to man the drive-thru testing stations. And those people need to be trained and equipped ahead of time. It's too expensive to keep them on the payroll 24/7/365. That's why I'm thinking National Guard. You could enlarge the Army and Air Force Reserves to accomplish all that the Guard supplies from a military perspective, and let the Guard focus on civil defense and emergency/disaster response.

If you had trained medical teams that could have deployed a month or two ago and done field testing on an everyday basis, away from hospitals and doctors' offices and emergency rooms, we could have gotten a handle on this a lot faster. Of course, that would have required having tests available, which would have meant going with the WHO test instead of the CDC test, at least initially. But we always want to assume that nothing will go wrong, and so we don't want to spend the money.

And all we really needed to do to have a timely response would have been to use the WHO test that everybody else is using, and allow state and local governments and private labs to conduct and evaluate tests. Trump is sort of doing that now, which is good. But at the outset, CDC wanted to control everything, and IMO they screwed it up.

Sure, we'd be much better off if we had a trained cadre available when COVID-19 first appeared. But what's the next catastrophe? Flood? the major California earthquake? Tsunami? Nuclear accident? I don't think we're willing to have cadres ready to respond to any conceivable catastrophe, nor the facilities and equipment they would need. I'd consider it a major accomplishment to have effective plans in place.

Yes, CDC has made mistakes. I think they're less important than the mixed and counterproductive messaging out of the White House.
03-15-2020 08:45 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-15-2020 08:45 AM)Old Sammy Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 06:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Not exactly. That was an office of planners and managers, not an office of doers. I'm talking about having identified personnel that are, for example, going out to the field to man the drive-thru testing stations. And those people need to be trained and equipped ahead of time. It's too expensive to keep them on the payroll 24/7/365. That's why I'm thinking National Guard. You could enlarge the Army and Air Force Reserves to accomplish all that the Guard supplies from a military perspective, and let the Guard focus on civil defense and emergency/disaster response.
If you had trained medical teams that could have deployed a month or two ago and done field testing on an everyday basis, away from hospitals and doctors' offices and emergency rooms, we could have gotten a handle on this a lot faster. Of course, that would have required having tests available, which would have meant going with the WHO test instead of the CDC test, at least initially. But we always want to assume that nothing will go wrong, and so we don't want to spend the money.
And all we really needed to do to have a timely response would have been to use the WHO test that everybody else is using, and allow state and local governments and private labs to conduct and evaluate tests. Trump is sort of doing that now, which is good. But at the outset, CDC wanted to control everything, and IMO they screwed it up.
Sure, we'd be much better off if we had a trained cadre available when COVID-19 first appeared. But what's the next catastrophe? Flood? the major California earthquake? Tsunami? Nuclear accident? I don't think we're willing to have cadres ready to respond to any conceivable catastrophe, nor the facilities and equipment they would need. I'd consider it a major accomplishment to have effective plans in place.
Yes, CDC has made mistakes. I think they're less important than the mixed and counterproductive messaging out of the White House.

I have no idea what the next catastrophe will be. But I'm pretty sure it won't be a tsunami in Kansas or a major flood in New Mexico. So you train up to meet the most likely scenarios in your area--earthquakes, fires, and mudslides in California, hurricanes in the southeast. You develop what ever capabilities are most likely to be needed in your location. And you train on them. Realistic training is how you find the holes in your plan. And if California gets hit by a hurricane, you bring in folks from Texas and Louisiana to help.

But here's the other thing. Managing a crisis is very different from managing day-to-day operations. So you train on that too. It takes a different mentality, and you have to develop that.

CDC focused on developing a better test, because the WHO test apparently generates false positives (which may explain some of the large numbers). That's fine, but maybe they should have accepted the test we have and worked harder on a vaccine and an antidote instead. And apparently we are still getting false positives.

Day-to-day, having that perfect test is important. I can easily imagine CDC saying, "OMG we have to have a perfect test, or else our numbers will be wrong," because data is what they do on a day-to-day basis. In a crisis, having a vaccine and an antidote are far more important. If your test gives you false positives, then you treat some people who don't need it, but as long as the antidote does not harm them otherwise, so what. I am not saying that they haven't been working on a vaccine or an antidote, nor that working on a test does not help with the others--identifying it is certainly a step toward curing it. But time spent waiting on their test to come out, and for the defective early ones to be replaced, is time wasted and you can't waste time in a crisis.

As far as conflicting messages coming from Trump, I have seen lots of indications that he was getting conflicting messages from below. I think he waited too long to put his foot down, but at least he finally appears to be doing so.

I would have told CDC to use the WHO test for now, focus on a vaccine or cure instead of worrying that the test isn't perfect, bring state, local, and private labs in ASAP, and if the panic and hysteria got started call for a one to two week timeout and reboot. And in my National Guard world, the Guard would have field medical teams to deploy in times of crisis, and those field medical teams would have been setting up drive-thru testing in WalMart and Target and shopping mall parking lots to administer the WHO test from day one. That's not what Trump did, but he seems to be coming around now. I still think we will skate out with fewer casualties than many other places. We shall see.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2020 09:20 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
03-15-2020 09:16 AM
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RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
Appears that graduation ceremonies will still occur in some format (may be delayed). Students will also get refunded room, board, and fees.
03-15-2020 10:31 PM
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RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
Trump was right. It was a waste of money how it was set up. We dont need a another new agency. The CDC should be revamped or expanded to handle these type of crisis.
(03-14-2020 06:03 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 04:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  You need to understand a bit about the history of CDC. It was originally started to deal with malaria, and located in Atlanta because the south was the biggest problem area. As we got malaria under control, rather than going out of business, like good bureaucrats they looked around and found other diseases to go after. Over about 100 years, it just grew and grew and grew. It's probably very good at analyzing and tracking and keeping statistics and dispensing information, and those are all useful functions. But it isn't set up to be a crisis response agency, and forcing it into that role is going to result in mistakes.

We need a dedicated crisis response agency to deal with the inevitable things that are going to happen in a 21st century society. We may need different teams for different types of crises, or maybe skill set of crisis management is itself very adaptable, and we could have a management team with different functional units to handle different types of crises. The trick is that we can't pay them 24/7/365, but we need them trained and ready when the crisis comes. For this reason, I would identify the National Guard as the force to move from a reserve Army reserve primary function to disaster recovery/emergency response to a wide range of situations. Having a trained cadre of people able to set up numerous remote medical units and do screening for CV-19 would be a wonderful addition (although we would have to be careful, because a number of those people would actually come from the existing medical establishment).

FYI, the White House had such a capability, but Trump eliminated it in 2018, perhaps because, like you, he believed that paying them 24/7/365 was a waste of money.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/n...story.html

But without leaving anything in its place -- not even a "trained cadre" -- it's sadly no surprise that the U.S. response was late.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2020 12:01 AM by OldOwl.)
03-16-2020 12:00 AM
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RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-14-2020 06:03 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 04:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  You need to understand a bit about the history of CDC. It was originally started to deal with malaria, and located in Atlanta because the south was the biggest problem area. As we got malaria under control, rather than going out of business, like good bureaucrats they looked around and found other diseases to go after. Over about 100 years, it just grew and grew and grew. It's probably very good at analyzing and tracking and keeping statistics and dispensing information, and those are all useful functions. But it isn't set up to be a crisis response agency, and forcing it into that role is going to result in mistakes.
We need a dedicated crisis response agency to deal with the inevitable things that are going to happen in a 21st century society. We may need different teams for different types of crises, or maybe skill set of crisis management is itself very adaptable, and we could have a management team with different functional units to handle different types of crises. The trick is that we can't pay them 24/7/365, but we need them trained and ready when the crisis comes. For this reason, I would identify the National Guard as the force to move from a reserve Army reserve primary function to disaster recovery/emergency response to a wide range of situations. Having a trained cadre of people able to set up numerous remote medical units and do screening for CV-19 would be a wonderful addition (although we would have to be careful, because a number of those people would actually come from the existing medical establishment).
FYI, the White House had such a capability, but Trump eliminated it in 2018, perhaps because, like you, he believed that paying them 24/7/365 was a waste of money.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/n...story.html
But without leaving anything in its place -- not even a "trained cadre" -- it's sadly no surprise that the U.S. response was late.

The US almost always responds late to emergencies, because we don't have that capacity ready to go. The pandemic office that Trump closed does not appear to be what was needed. How many people ws it? 10? 20? 50? 100? 200? None of those are sufficient to mount the kind of response needed. We need thousands of people, trained and ready to go, to make a difference. It's like FEMA. FEMA can't actually respond to emergencies because it doesn't have the staff or other resources. It has to depend on others to do that. You can't afford to staff for crises on a 24/7/365 basis. But you need a large trained cadre to deploy.

The only way for CDC to get enough resources in this situation is to depend on state, local, and privates sector resources. They didn't do that initially, but Trump appears to have pointed them in that direction now. I still think we will be fine in the long run.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2020 12:59 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
03-16-2020 12:52 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #78
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-16-2020 12:00 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  Trump was right. It was a waste of money how it was set up. We dont need a another new agency. The CDC should be revamped or expanded to handle these type of crisis.
(03-14-2020 06:03 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 04:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  You need to understand a bit about the history of CDC. It was originally started to deal with malaria, and located in Atlanta because the south was the biggest problem area. As we got malaria under control, rather than going out of business, like good bureaucrats they looked around and found other diseases to go after. Over about 100 years, it just grew and grew and grew. It's probably very good at analyzing and tracking and keeping statistics and dispensing information, and those are all useful functions. But it isn't set up to be a crisis response agency, and forcing it into that role is going to result in mistakes.

We need a dedicated crisis response agency to deal with the inevitable things that are going to happen in a 21st century society. We may need different teams for different types of crises, or maybe skill set of crisis management is itself very adaptable, and we could have a management team with different functional units to handle different types of crises. The trick is that we can't pay them 24/7/365, but we need them trained and ready when the crisis comes. For this reason, I would identify the National Guard as the force to move from a reserve Army reserve primary function to disaster recovery/emergency response to a wide range of situations. Having a trained cadre of people able to set up numerous remote medical units and do screening for CV-19 would be a wonderful addition (although we would have to be careful, because a number of those people would actually come from the existing medical establishment).

FYI, the White House had such a capability, but Trump eliminated it in 2018, perhaps because, like you, he believed that paying them 24/7/365 was a waste of money.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/n...story.html

But without leaving anything in its place -- not even a "trained cadre" -- it's sadly no surprise that the U.S. response was late.

For a bit of context, it wasn't a new agency. It was a position on the NSC that was tasked with coordinating various federal agencies through the NSC. Basically someone who could take a step back and make sure each agency was on the right path/communicating, without getting bogged down in running an agency.
03-16-2020 08:05 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-16-2020 08:05 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(03-16-2020 12:00 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  Trump was right. It was a waste of money how it was set up. We dont need a another new agency. The CDC should be revamped or expanded to handle these type of crisis.
(03-14-2020 06:03 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 04:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  You need to understand a bit about the history of CDC. It was originally started to deal with malaria, and located in Atlanta because the south was the biggest problem area. As we got malaria under control, rather than going out of business, like good bureaucrats they looked around and found other diseases to go after. Over about 100 years, it just grew and grew and grew. It's probably very good at analyzing and tracking and keeping statistics and dispensing information, and those are all useful functions. But it isn't set up to be a crisis response agency, and forcing it into that role is going to result in mistakes.

We need a dedicated crisis response agency to deal with the inevitable things that are going to happen in a 21st century society. We may need different teams for different types of crises, or maybe skill set of crisis management is itself very adaptable, and we could have a management team with different functional units to handle different types of crises. The trick is that we can't pay them 24/7/365, but we need them trained and ready when the crisis comes. For this reason, I would identify the National Guard as the force to move from a reserve Army reserve primary function to disaster recovery/emergency response to a wide range of situations. Having a trained cadre of people able to set up numerous remote medical units and do screening for CV-19 would be a wonderful addition (although we would have to be careful, because a number of those people would actually come from the existing medical establishment).

FYI, the White House had such a capability, but Trump eliminated it in 2018, perhaps because, like you, he believed that paying them 24/7/365 was a waste of money.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/n...story.html

But without leaving anything in its place -- not even a "trained cadre" -- it's sadly no surprise that the U.S. response was late.

For a bit of context, it wasn't a new agency. It was a position on the NSC that was tasked with coordinating various federal agencies through the NSC. Basically someone who could take a step back and make sure each agency was on the right path/communicating, without getting bogged down in running an agency.

So, an offensive coordinator?
03-16-2020 08:57 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #80
RE: Rice cancelling classes and events
(03-16-2020 08:05 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(03-16-2020 12:00 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  Trump was right. It was a waste of money how it was set up. We dont need a another new agency. The CDC should be revamped or expanded to handle these type of crisis.
(03-14-2020 06:03 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(03-14-2020 04:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  You need to understand a bit about the history of CDC. It was originally started to deal with malaria, and located in Atlanta because the south was the biggest problem area. As we got malaria under control, rather than going out of business, like good bureaucrats they looked around and found other diseases to go after. Over about 100 years, it just grew and grew and grew. It's probably very good at analyzing and tracking and keeping statistics and dispensing information, and those are all useful functions. But it isn't set up to be a crisis response agency, and forcing it into that role is going to result in mistakes.
We need a dedicated crisis response agency to deal with the inevitable things that are going to happen in a 21st century society. We may need different teams for different types of crises, or maybe skill set of crisis management is itself very adaptable, and we could have a management team with different functional units to handle different types of crises. The trick is that we can't pay them 24/7/365, but we need them trained and ready when the crisis comes. For this reason, I would identify the National Guard as the force to move from a reserve Army reserve primary function to disaster recovery/emergency response to a wide range of situations. Having a trained cadre of people able to set up numerous remote medical units and do screening for CV-19 would be a wonderful addition (although we would have to be careful, because a number of those people would actually come from the existing medical establishment).
FYI, the White House had such a capability, but Trump eliminated it in 2018, perhaps because, like you, he believed that paying them 24/7/365 was a waste of money.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/n...story.html
But without leaving anything in its place -- not even a "trained cadre" -- it's sadly no surprise that the U.S. response was late.
For a bit of context, it wasn't a new agency. It was a position on the NSC that was tasked with coordinating various federal agencies through the NSC. Basically someone who could take a step back and make sure each agency was on the right path/communicating, without getting bogged down in running an agency.

Oh, Dear God, that's exactly what we need--another bureaucracy to "coordinate" all the other bureaucracies. We don't need coordinating bureaucracies, we need a way to put trained boots on the ground. And we need the leaders to have a crisis-mode, do-something mentality rather than a bureaucratic one.

When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.
03-16-2020 02:19 PM
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